"A Jekyll and Hyde to Me": Richard Ramirez Talks to Michal Ben-Horin

In a prison conversation later used in an Israeli documentary, Richard Ramirez offered a "recipe" for a serial killer, talked about his first love, and said that regret was "not my style".

Subject

Richard Ramírez

Runtime

6:28

Content warning: Ramirez is asked about violence, sex and his crimes; the page refers to murders and sexual assaults.

The Interview

Michal Ben-Horin, an Israeli journalist and author who lived for many years in Los Angeles, recorded conversations over several decades with people convicted of serious crimes, including Charles Manson and Richard Ramirez. Parts of her conversation with Ramirez appear in "My Project X", a 2023 Israeli documentary about her archive and her stepfather, the original Israeli "Prisoner X". This six-minute excerpt, posted online by a third party, shows Ramirez answering her questions about himself, about what makes a serial killer, about his first love and about regret.

Historical Context

In 1984 and 1985 the "Night Stalker" broke into homes at night across Los Angeles County and in the San Francisco area, murdering, raping and assaulting the people inside. Ramirez was captured in East Los Angeles on August 31, 1985. On September 20, 1989, a Los Angeles jury convicted him of 13 murders and all 43 counts against him, and on November 7, 1989, he was sentenced to death. He remained on death row at San Quentin until his death in 2013.

Circumstances of the Interview

The date and place of the interview are not given in the clip. Ramirez refers to the crimes he has "been convicted of", so it was recorded after 1989. At one point he also says "I am pending trial here", which may refer to other charges that remained outstanding. A brief television news line about his marriage behind bars (he married in 1996) has been edited into the excerpt; it does not date the interview itself. The film's editors cut the conversation into short sections.

What the Interview Covers

Asked what kind of person he is, Ramirez says he is "just an ordinary person, but then again, there's a Jekyll and Hyde to me". He describes a serial killer as coming about "like a recipe": poverty, drugs, child abuse, building frustration and anger until the person "explodes". He says he still dreams about "everything that has happened" and that he likes nightmares, that he meditates in his cell, and, in a partly unclear passage, that he would rather be executed than spend his life in prison. He describes falling in love at 15 and losing touch with the girl after he was sent to reform school. He refuses to answer whether he associates sex with violence, saying, "I can't say what I really feel." He says regret "is not my style" and that he believes in fate. Asked what he would want to be remembered for, he says, "I survived as best as I could."

What Makes the Recording Significant

Ramirez gave few extended on-camera interviews. This conversation concentrates on his view of himself rather than on the evidence, and he speaks informally, at times laughing and breaking off. The uploader calls it "unseen"; it appears to have been first released in the 2023 film.

Archival Importance

The excerpt adds a later, reflective Ramirez to the archive's record of his defiant statement at sentencing in 1989 (see the related Video page when published).

Important Caveats

Ramirez's accounts of himself and of what makes a killer are his own claims. The clip is an edit of a longer conversation, and the interview date is unknown. Ben-Horin's questions are sometimes faint, and several passages are marked unclear in the transcript, which has not yet been checked by a human listener. The film's synopsis says Ramirez murdered 18 people; that is the filmmakers' figure, not the number of murders of which he was convicted (13).

Michal Ben-Horin: Okay, [unclear: "M"]. Hi. What kind of a person are you?

Richard Ramirez: What kind of person would I describe myself to be? Hmm, I don't know. I'm just an ordinary person, but then again, there's a Jekyll and Hyde to me.

Michal Ben-Horin: What kind of person are you?

Richard Ramirez: Okay, go ahead, next question.

Michal Ben-Horin: [unclear: "Someone"] talks with you, you gave me the formula for the serial killer.

Richard Ramirez: Yes. I believe a serial killer comes about by circumstances, and it's like a recipe. Poverty, drugs, child abuse, a few of the things that I can't recall right now. But I believe that these things, you know, contribute to a person, to a person's frustration and anger, and at some point in life he explodes.

Richard Ramirez: Evil is feelings, and, feelings and emotions like anger, hate, lust and greed, whereas if, where if I didn't give in to them, I would be crushed by them.

Richard Ramirez: As far as the crimes they say I committed, I've been convicted of, I still have dreams of everything that has happened, yes, but I like nightmares.

Richard Ramirez: I was happy till the day I got arrested. I had [unclear: "hoped" / "hope"], not as much as I would like. I do exercise. I meditate.

Michal Ben-Horin: You did?

Richard Ramirez: Yes, I meditate. Yeah. Yes, in my cell.

Richard Ramirez: [unclear: "It's just to" / "C is to"] get executed rather than spend the rest of my life in prison. I don't, I don't have any hope of getting out, and I don't see it as a reality, realistically, looking at it. I don't see myself walking the streets again.

Richard Ramirez: I am not engaged. I am not engaged, and no, I don't want to talk about anything like that.

News Anchor: California's Night Stalker has married behind bars.

Michal Ben-Horin: Were you ever in love with a woman?

Richard Ramirez: I have been in love.

Michal Ben-Horin: When? How old were you?

Richard Ramirez: I was 15. I was 15.

Michal Ben-Horin: And what happened?

Richard Ramirez: I got sent, I was with her three years, and I got sent to reform school, and when I came back, we lost touch, and she got married, and that was it.

Richard Ramirez: Do I associate sex with violence? Um. Break. Ah, shit, man, that's a hard question. I don't know. I don't know. I can't answer that, Michal. I mean... Okay.

Richard Ramirez: Hold, hold. No, no, we can't get into that. See, she tries, she tries and makes, you know, keeps me going, but I can't, I can't. Don't laugh like that, you're making me laugh. I hope, I hope you edit this real good, [unclear: "Philip" / "Philli"]. Thank you. Okay, go ahead, man. What do you, you know, I'm at a loss here. What do you want me to say? People, people... [unclear: "I wanted to say things you've made me think" / "hold that light, hold that"]. Hold on, [unclear: "M"], hold on. Look, you know, sometimes I can't, I can't say what I really feel. I am pending trial here. As to sex and violence, many people are into S&M and bondage and stuff, and there's clubs that...

Michal Ben-Horin: Yeah, we're talking about you.

Richard Ramirez: Me? Well, sex and violence. Well, I, no, I don't think I'll answer that. No.

Michal Ben-Horin: [unclear: "Well, you're there, Mavrat?"]

Richard Ramirez: Yeah, what?

Michal Ben-Horin: [unclear: "You're saying that you're not going to be able to answer?"]

Richard Ramirez: Well, I agree, that was a stupid answer. But Jesus, this was a, this is a wicked, wicked world, and in a wicked world, wicked people are born, you know. And regretting is not my style. I cannot regret. It just isn't me.

Michal Ben-Horin: Well, you feel it's threatening your well-being?

Richard Ramirez: Possibly. I believe in fate, you know, destiny.

Michal Ben-Horin: Are there any things about you you'd want to be remembered for? Things that are positive in you? Things that you think are special?

Richard Ramirez: I survived as best as I could. [music] ---