"The Pure Nerve of This Individual": Families' Lawyer Tim Danson on Paul Bernardo's Day Parole Application, CBC News, July 2015

Name: "The Pure Nerve of This Individual": Families' Lawyer Tim Danson on Paul Bernardo's Day Parole Application, CBC News, July 2015
Uploaded: 2015-07-03T00:00:00Z
Duration: 6 min 6 s
Description: Tim Danson, lawyer for the French and Mahaffy families, explains to CBC News in July 2015 why Paul Bernardo could apply for day parole and why the families' position was that the dangerous offender designation had to be dealt with first.

Tim Danson, lawyer for the French and Mahaffy families, explains to CBC News in July 2015 why Paul Bernardo could apply for day parole and why the families' position was that the dangerous offender designation had to be dealt with first.

Subject: Paul Kenneth Bernardo
Recorded: about July 2015
Runtime: 6:06

Content warning: Concerns the murders of two teenage girls, sexual assaults and sexual sadism; no graphic description.

The Interview

This is a CBC News live interview with Tim Danson, the Toronto lawyer who represented the families of Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French. Paul Bernardo is not heard. The anchor, who is not named in the video, questions Danson about Bernardo's application for day parole, which had just become public. (The YouTube title's "Ted Danson" is an error; the broadcast and description say Tim Danson.)

Historical Context

Bernardo was convicted on September 1, 1995, of the first-degree murders of Leslie Mahaffy, 14, and Kristen French, 15, sentenced to life with no parole for 25 years, and designated a dangerous offender. In 2015, aged 50 and held at Millhaven Institution in Bath, Ontario, he applied for day parole in the Toronto area. Correctional Service Canada notified the families by letter; Danson said he received it on June 25, 2015.

Circumstances

Danson describes the families' reaction as shock at "the pure nerve" of the application, and says he had asked them to take time to "decompress" before deciding on victim impact statements and taking part in a hearing.

What the Recording Covers

Danson sets out the legal position as he understood it: a dangerous offender designation is an indeterminate sentence, reviewed after seven years and every two years after that; for the two first-degree murder convictions, day parole may be sought three years before the 25-year mark, counted from arrest, which is why Bernardo could apply after 22 years. He says he told the authorities that the parole board would first have to deal with the dangerous offender designation, "a much higher threshold." He says Bernardo would have to show he was no longer a risk to public safety, supported by a case management plan and medical evidence, and calls his chance of release "zero," while adding, "we take nothing for granted." He notes that, rather than prosecute the Scarborough rape charges, it was agreed that those victims could give victim impact statements at the 1995 dangerous offender hearing, so the designation concerned 18 victims as well as the murders.

What Makes the Recording Significant

It records, in the week the application became public, the legal route the families' lawyer said Bernardo would have to take. Bernardo was later denied day and full parole in 2018, 2021 and 2024.

Archival Importance

From CBC's own archive.

Important Caveats

Bernardo is not heard. Danson's account of the law is his own summary as an advocate and was not checked against the statutes. At one point he says "Debbie Mahaffy" where the context refers to Leslie Mahaffy; the transcript marks this. The anchor is not named. The exact broadcast date is not stated in the video.

Anchor: Convicted murderer and rapist Paul Bernardo applies for day parole. He is currently serving a life sentence for killing two teenage girls. He was designated a dangerous offender after he admitted to raping 14 other women. Tim Danson is the lawyer for the families of Bernardo's murder victims, Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French. He has been in touch with the families after learning of the killer's application. Tim Danson joins me now from Toronto. Tim, what was your reaction when you heard that Paul Bernardo is asking for day parole?

Tim Danson: Well, at first you're kind of shocked just by the, you know, pure nerve of this individual to think that he's entitled to any kind of release, let alone early release. But obviously, we knew this day would come. Legally, he's entitled to apply for parole. It was very, very difficult for the families, very, very upsetting, as one would expect. And so right now, you know, I've just asked them to process it, to digest it, you know, decompress a little bit, because it's so upsetting. And then, you know, once they've taken the time necessary to digest this, then we'll talk about what's next in terms of victim impact statements and participating in the actual parole hearing itself.

Anchor: Here's the confusing part. He was declared a dangerous offender, and a lot of people took that to mean that you, you know, throw away the key, that he has no opportunity to come out.

Tim Danson: Actually not. Yeah, yeah, that's actually incorrect. It is true that a dangerous offender designation is an indeterminate sentence. However, for it to be constitutionally valid, the Supreme Court of Canada has made it clear, and the law is very clear, that after seven years you're entitled to a review, and then you're entitled to a review every two years to deal with that particular designation. However, where Paul Bernardo is different is that he's also been convicted for two counts of first-degree murder, for which he's received life sentences, for which you're not entitled to parole for 25 years. However, for day parole, you're entitled to apply three years prior to the 25 years, and the timeline is calculated not from conviction but from his arrest and incarceration, which is 22 years. So that's why he's eligible to apply now.

Tim Danson: Having said that, I've made it very clear to the authorities on behalf of my clients that the parole board is going to have to deal with his dangerous offender designation first, which is a much higher threshold, in my view, before you even get to the regular statutory application for day parole. However which way you cut it, in my view, knowing all the facts and the laws I understand it, I'm of the strong view that the chances of Paul Bernardo getting any kind of release at any time in his life is zero.

Anchor: [unclear: "Will we" / "Will he"] have to... Can I just interrupt there? What will he have to prove in order to get day parole?

Tim Danson: Well, he's going to have to establish that he's no longer a risk to public safety. And so here, when you have a combination of a dangerous offender designation and conviction for first-degree murder, for someone who is at the highest end of sexual sadism and psychopathy, that's why I'm of the strong view that his chances of getting any kind of release is zero. His case management team, that is, the people who are managing his so-called rehabilitation in the system, in prison, they would have to come forward with a plan, and I would be shocked if any case management team would think that Paul Bernardo even comes close to the threshold for being considered for any kind of release.

Tim Danson: You would then have to have medical evidence, and again, I would be shocked if any reputable doctor, psychiatrist, psychologist would come forward and say that Paul Bernardo happens to be the first psychopath in history to be rehabilitated and not represent that significant threat to public safety. And when you look at the definition of a dangerous offender, in terms of the repetitive behavior, in this case repetitive, sadistic and violent, brutally violent behavior, in addition to the murders, he's just not going to be released. Having said that, we take nothing for granted.

Anchor: Well, I just wanted to break this down, because as I understand it, the dangerous offender status is related to other crimes, but he's applying for the day parole on the murders of Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French, right? In particular, those two.

Tim Danson: Well, that's an interesting question, because that's one of the questions that I've put to the authorities recently. Is Paul Bernardo simply applying for day parole in the regular way, or is he also applying to be relieved from the consequences of the dangerous offender designation? So I'm simply taking the position that if he thinks he's only applying for day parole, I say no, he has to first deal with the dangerous offender designation. And you're quite correct: the dangerous offender designation applies to four other offenses that he was convicted of, which is the kidnapping and aggravated sexual assault of Kristen French and Debbie [sic: Leslie] Mahaffy. But remember, it was agreed that rather than prosecute Paul Bernardo for the 14 or 15 Scarborough rape charges and the rape of Jane Doe, those victims were able to read their victim impact statements at the time of the dangerous offender application. So Justice LeSage heard all of that evidence. So when we're dealing with the dangerous offender designation, we're talking about 18 victims, and then, of course, the murders.

Anchor: All right. Well, we'll see how it all plays out. Tim Danson, lawyer for the French and Mahaffy families, thank you for joining me in Toronto.

Tim Danson: Thank you very much. ---