"Much Ado About Nothing"? Paul Bernardo Applies for Day Parole, CBC News Network, July 2015

Name: "Much Ado About Nothing"? Paul Bernardo Applies for Day Parole, CBC News Network, July 2015
Uploaded: 2015-07-04T00:00:00Z
Duration: 7 min 46 s
Description: CBC News Network's segment on Paul Bernardo's July 2015 application for day parole: the government's reaction, a clip of the families' lawyer, and a defense lawyer on why a dangerous offender may apply but is very unlikely to succeed.

CBC News Network's segment on Paul Bernardo's July 2015 application for day parole: the government's reaction, a clip of the families' lawyer, and a defense lawyer on why a dangerous offender may apply but is very unlikely to succeed.

Subject: Paul Kenneth Bernardo
Recorded: about July 3, 2015
Runtime: 7:46

Content warning: Concerns the murders of two teenage girls and serial sexual assaults; no graphic description.

The Interview

This is a CBC News Network segment, not an interview with Bernardo, and he is not heard. The anchor, addressed as Paul, questions a CBC reporter, introduced as Steve, about Bernardo's application for day parole, then interviews a criminal defense lawyer, introduced as Eric, on how a dangerous offender can apply for parole. A short recorded clip of Tim Danson, lawyer for the French and Mahaffy families, is included. The surnames are not confirmed.

Historical Context

Bernardo was convicted on September 1, 1995, of the first-degree murders of Leslie Mahaffy, 14, and Kristen French, 15, sentenced to life with no parole for 25 years, and designated a dangerous offender. In 2015, aged 50 and held at Millhaven Institution in Bath, Ontario, he applied for day parole in the Toronto area. The application became public on July 3, 2015, after Correctional Service Canada notified the victims and their families by letter.

Circumstances

The reporter reads a statement from Julian Fantino, then Associate Minister of National Defence and a former Toronto police chief: "This individual committed evil and horrific crimes for which he should be held fully accountable, not permitted any freedom." He says the Scarborough victims had also received letters and had until July 14 to submit victim impact statements. The anchor recalls attending the 1995 trial and the dangerous offender hearing, "20 years ago today," and the visible distress of the families and the Scarborough victims.

What the Recording Covers

The reporter explains that dangerous offender status means indefinite detention and that Bernardo was seeking removal from it, which would let him seek parole after 25 years. In the clip, Danson says he told the families to take all the time they need: "they're certainly not going to be rushed by the likes of Paul Bernardo." The defense lawyer calls the application "probably going to be much ado about nothing": "You might as well apply to be an astronaut." He describes the right to apply as "almost a historical artifact" from the abolition of the death penalty, says offenders paroled after a single murder have the lowest reoffending rate, and says he has never heard of a dangerous offender being granted parole.

What Makes the Recording Significant

It records the day Bernardo's first parole bid became public, with the federal government's response and a plain explanation of the law. The defense lawyer's prediction held: Bernardo was denied day and full parole in 2018, 2021 and 2024.

Archival Importance

From CBC's own archive.

Important Caveats

Bernardo is not heard. The anchor's, reporter's and defense lawyer's surnames are not confirmed (the lawyer is probably Eric V. Gottardi; not verified). The recollection of the 1995 trial is attributed to the anchor from the transcript evidence (the research memo had given it to the reporter). The defense lawyer's statements on parole statistics are his own and were not checked.

Paul: One of Canada's most notorious killers is hoping for a taste of freedom. Paul Bernardo has filed an application for day parole in Toronto. The lawyer who represents the families of the two teen girls Bernardo murdered also confirms Bernardo has had medical appointments outside of prison grounds, and that he's been escorted to those appointments. Bernardo was convicted in 1995 for the rape and murder of Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy. He [was] sentenced to life in prison with no possibility of parole for 25 years. He was also declared a dangerous offender. And for more on this, I'm joined now by Steve Niles [name as heard; not verified]. So what would it take for Bernardo to actually get this?

Steve: There is a process that someone like Paul Bernardo, or anyone else who's convicted of first-degree murder and declared a dangerous offender, can go through. But just to back up for a second, to reiterate something that Paul said: in jail since 1995, convicted in the deaths of Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy, serving a life sentence without parole for 25 years. But he was also convicted of raping at least 14 women, and he's suspected of doing so [to] possibly several more victims. So when he was convicted of that, given dangerous offender status. Now, that means after 25 years he's not automatically eligible for parole. Dangerous offender status in Canada, it's the most severe designation someone can be given under Canadian law, and it means he will be held indefinitely.

Steve: So what he's seeking, this process that he wishes to undertake: removal from the dangerous offenders list, which would then allow him to seek parole after that 25-year period. These are his rights as a Canadian citizen. Anyone who is convicted of these crimes has a right to at least apply for this. Whether or not he's successful, though, that remains up to the parole board. He is now 50 years old, asking for permission, as you say, to be allowed [unclear: "during" / "jury"] out of the day. Day parole would be the next step for that, meaning that they are allowed to leave prison but they just must return at night. He's a long way from that right now, and he's currently serving his sentence, Paul, [at] Millhaven Institution in eastern Ontario.

Paul: You know, I was in the trial, and I sat through it, and I sat through the dangerous offender hearing. And, you know, the families of the victims, they were gutted, you know, and you could see it every day of the trial. And in his dangerous offender hearing, the Scarborough rape victims were there, and they were as if they had been eviscerated. And it's like, it was 20 years ago, 20 years ago today, I was in court watching him with my own eyes, you know, and you never forget that stuff. And I, I mean, has there been reaction from the families today?

Steve: This was a trial that captivated not just attention in this country, in the city of Toronto, across Canada, and throughout the world as well, in Europe, in the United States. Many people paying attention to this; many people remember scenes just like that from 20 years ago. So not surprisingly, there has been a lot of reaction. We got some from an official capacity today from Ottawa: Julian Fantino, the Associate Minister of National Defence, who also used to be the police chief in Toronto in the years after Bernardo was convicted, but he would certainly have been aware of this. He released a statement as well, and he said, "Our government believes that all dangerous criminals should remain behind bars where they belong. This individual committed evil and horrific crimes for which he should be held fully accountable, not permitted any freedom."

Steve: Now, we are hearing about this application for Bernardo to seek day parole and removal from dangerous offender status because a letter, as part of the process, has been sent to the victims and their families. We spoke to the lawyer for the French and Mahaffy families earlier today. Have a listen.

Tim Danson: I've told them to take all the time they need. There's no rush, and they're certainly not going to be rushed by the likes of Paul Bernardo. For the families, you know, it's gut-wrenching. It's very emotional, a very, very difficult time for them. They just need time to digest this, to absorb it, to decompress a little bit.

Steve: So these letters have been going out, Paul, to the families of the, the French and Mahaffy families got them. Many of the victims when he was committing sex assaults in Scarborough, they've also gotten these letters, and they have until July 14th, if they choose to, to submit a victim impact statement. And I, none of them, obviously, will ever forget what happened, but you kind of think they must have thought they'd never have to go through this kind of thing again.

Paul: Yeah, it's just... Thanks, Steve.

Steve: You're welcome.

Paul: Joining us for more on this now, Eric [surname as heard: "Katardi" / "gardi"; probably Gottardi, not verified], criminal defense lawyer. You know, I think a lot of people are thinking, man, he was named a dangerous offender, and that's to the end of your biological life that you're behind bars. So how can a dangerous offender be applying for day parole? How does that work?

Eric: Well, it's, you know, it's a very technical area. You know, it's a situation where really it's probably going to be much ado about nothing. It's because, you know, for a serial, serial murderer like this, there really is absolutely no possibility that he's going to be successful in this application to get parole. You might as well apply to be an astronaut, for all we care, because really there's absolutely no chance that he's going to get parole. You know, it's important that people understand that just because there's the possibility that someone might be able to apply for parole doesn't mean they're going to get it. And certainly in a situation like this, with the nature of the offenses, the number of offenses, there's really no possibility of parole in this case.

Paul: Why is it even, I don't know, allowed, then, that he can apply for it? I mean, I sat through the trial and I sat through his dangerous offender hearing, and I saw the pain that all of this stuff caused everybody that he came in contact with, and I'm thinking, not a chance, right, as you note. So why is it even allowed that this step be taken by him?

Eric: Well, you know, it's almost a historical artifact at this point. When you're talking about people are sentenced to the worst crimes, murders, multiple murders, you know, back in the day there was the possibility of the death penalty. And when that was taken off the books, one of the counterarguments was, we've got to give them some kind of hope at the end of the tunnel so they'll behave themselves while they're in there, for the safety of the guards and other inmates and those kinds of things. And so, you know, this very far-off hope that they could one day apply, after a long period of time, for parole was left in there. But just because they can apply doesn't mean that they're going to get it. And again, you know, life really does mean life when it's 25 years, you know, before you can even apply, and it's important for people to understand that.

Paul: How often do, let's set Bernardo aside, other killers who are sentenced to life, do they win day parole, or parole, ever?

Eric: Well, it's actually, you know, it's one of the very interesting statistics when you look at parolees. People who are convicted of a single murder, it's usually someone who's been very close to them. And parolees who are successful, and from time to time they are successful, after they've served 25 years or longer, they're the safest parolees. Their risk of recidivism is actually the lowest of all offenders. So in terms of those folks that are successful, and it's not a huge number, it's a very low number, they're the safest parolees that we have in our system. In a situation like Bernardo's, where you're talking about a serial multiple murderer, there's really no chance. And so people, they don't need to get too inflamed about this, that there's a realistic possibility, [unclear: "that they get" / "doesn't get"] too upset about it, because there really is no chance for this particular offender.

Paul: Just very quickly, have you ever heard of a dangerous offender being granted parole, a dangerous offender?

Eric: No, no, I haven't. That would be extremely rare, because you're supposed to be in there until, you know, you expire.

Paul: [unclear: "She is" / "He is"], and likely will be.

Eric: Likely will be.

Paul: Thanks, Eric.

Eric: Thanks, Paul. ---