"Better Served to Wait": Israel Keyes and the FBI, May 29, 2012

Name: "Better Served to Wait": Israel Keyes and the FBI, May 29, 2012
Uploaded: 2013-08-13
Duration: 1 h 12 min 46 s
Description: Six days after his escape attempt in court, Israel Keyes was shown a letter in which Vermont prosecutors agreed to keep his name quiet while he cooperated. He welcomed it, but held back what he knew about Washington State: "I would be better served to wait."

Six days after his escape attempt in court, Israel Keyes was shown a letter in which Vermont prosecutors agreed to keep his name quiet while he cooperated. He welcomed it, but held back what he knew about Washington State: "I would be better served to wait."

Subject: Israel Keyes
Recorded: May 29, 2012
Runtime: 1:12:46

Content warning: Concerns a man who murdered at least three people; the murders and the search for the bodies are referred to but not described. Contains strong language.

The Interview

On Tuesday, May 29, 2012, Israel Keyes was brought from the jail to the FBI's office in Anchorage for another of the sessions he had been giving since his arrest in March. FBI Special Agent Steve Payne, Anchorage Police Officer Jeff Bell and Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo were in the room. Payne read him his rights, which he waived; he declined to have his standby counsel, Rich Curtner and Jacqueline Walsh, present, and was reminded that the Samantha Koenig case could not be discussed. The interview itself lasts just under an hour; the video, which also shows the room before and after, runs 1 hour 12 minutes.

Historical Context

Keyes, a 34-year-old building contractor from Anchorage, abducted Samantha Koenig, 18, from the coffee stand where she worked on February 1, 2012, and killed her. He was arrested in Lufkin, Texas, on March 13, 2012, after using her debit card. In later interviews he confessed to the murders of Bill and Lorraine Currier, who disappeared from their home in Essex, Vermont, in June 2011, and described other killings. The FBI believes he may have killed 11 people. He took his own life in the Anchorage Correctional Complex on the night of December 1 to 2, 2012, before he could be tried.

Circumstances of the Interview

The session took place six days after Keyes broke free during a hearing in federal court in Anchorage on May 23, 2012, and was stopped with a Taser by U.S. Marshals. Russo had brought a letter, dated the same day, from the state prosecutor's office in Chittenden County, Vermont, and addressed to Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin Feldis. Russo describes it as Vermont's agreement that, as long as Keyes cooperated, it would avoid media attention and would not identify him in connection with the Currier case. Russo tells Keyes that the escape attempt had "complicated things", because Vermont had begun to wonder whether he wanted publicity after all, but that Vermont had since confirmed it still stood by the letter.

What the Interview Covers

Keyes reads the letter and calls it good, and asks for a copy to be sent to his standby counsel. He says he wants to give "all the answers on these cases" so that families get closure, but that he does not plan "on being around a whole lot longer" and that his main concern is his daughter: "I don't want her to, like, type my name in the computer and [have it] pop up." He complains of TV specials and "all this true crime bullshit that people are obsessed with". The investigators tell him the search in Vermont is still under way; he answers that he almost feels guilty about the cost to taxpayers. Payne explains how a federal investigation limits what is released; Bell and Russo argue that without his help the inquiries in other jurisdictions would become a "media frenzy". Asked for the name of a victim in New York, Keyes refuses for now. When Russo raises Washington State, and Bell tells him a boat of his has been found there, Keyes says the cases there may be state rather than federal matters and that, depending on how things go, "I would be better served to wait". He also describes his new jail restrictions (he says he will get fat "and I won't want to run anymore"), jokes about the escape attempt ("half a football team of U.S. Marshals"), and asks for a break from the subject while his brothers visit that week. The session ends with plans for a Vermont call later in the week, and Bell offers him a cigar.

What Makes the Recording Significant

The recording shows the Vermont arrangement at the moment it was first put in writing, and Keyes's response to it in his own words, a week after the escape attempt. It documents the bargaining that ran through his custody: information about other killings in exchange for control over publicity, with Keyes holding back what he said he knew about New York and Washington. Alaska Dispatch (now part of the Anchorage Daily News), reporting the release of the audio in April 2013, quoted this session.

Archival Importance

Keyes died without trial, so his recorded interviews are the main record of his own account. This is one of the five Keyes sessions the FBI published, with transcripts, in August 2013, and this copy was posted by the FBI itself.

Important Caveats

What Keyes says about other killings and about his intentions is his claim and was not verified in the session. Russo's figures ("killed 40 people", "he killed 10") are his illustration of the difference between media speculation and a confession, not findings, and Bell's "ten" missing people near one of Keyes's New York trips are people investigators had to consider, not victims ("we know you didn't do that"). No further victims are identified by name in this recording, and the New York victim is not named. The name of Keyes's daughter, spoken on the tape, is withheld in the transcript, as in the FBI's own transcript. The transcript was made from two machine readings (Whisper and YouTube's automatic captions), checked for speakers against the FBI's transcript; several passages remain unclear and are marked.

Officer Jeff Bell: One of the lawyers got you this.

Israel Keyes: Lawyers?

Special Agent Steve Payne: Israel, how you doing?

Israel Keyes: All right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Hey, Israel, how you doing?

Israel Keyes: All right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Feldis is, uh, back east in some meetings this week, but, uh, [we] figured it'd be a good opportunity to update you on some of the [unclear: "developments of L" / "elements in the line"; probably "developments in Vermont"].

Israel Keyes: Yeah.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Okay. They're going to go through their usual [unclear: "advice and I'll be" / "visual advice and an approach"; probably "advisement, that'll be first"].

Israel Keyes: All right.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Um, as you know, you know, we're recording things here, so we got the, uh, [unclear: "step on" (both readings); probably "stuff on"]. I just want to confirm some of the stuff that we talked about at the jail. Um, we didn't interrupt a meeting with your attorneys when we, uh, arrived there today, did we?

Israel Keyes: No.

Special Agent Steve Payne: And it's your choice to come here, as always, and you're here voluntarily, is that correct?

Israel Keyes: Yes.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Um, and you understand we can't talk about anything that has to do with Samantha Koenig. Um, if we do, or if you start talking about that, we'll have to stop the interview and transport you back to jail. You understand that, right?

Israel Keyes: Yes.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Um, going to run through your Miranda rights here real quick. I know we've been through these quite a few times, um, but we'll run through them again. Before we ask any questions, you must understand your rights. You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say [unclear: "can ED to go through your court" (captions) / "can't be used as an instrument for it" (Whisper); the standard warning reads "can be used against you in court"]. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before we ask you any questions. You have the right to have a lawyer with you during questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be appointed for you before any questioning, if you wish. Uh, if you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you have the right to stop answering questions at any time. Uh, do you understand these rights as I explained it to you?

Israel Keyes: Yes.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Okay. And with this advisement in mind, are you willing to waive your rights and speak to us today?

Israel Keyes: Yes.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Um, as you know, you've got the standby counsel that's been appointed in this matter. I believe it's Rich Curtner and Jacqueline Walsh. Do you have any desire to have either one of, either one of them present today?

Israel Keyes: No.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [unclear: "We're going to get started" (Whisper); not in the captions; the FBI transcript has Russo asking whether he wants any attorney at all]

Israel Keyes: No.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Um, are you, have you been taking any medications or any other substances in the last 24 hours?

Israel Keyes: No.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Are you having any difficulty understanding where you're at, what's going on?

Israel Keyes: No.

Special Agent Steve Payne: All right. [I think that] takes care of things, so I'll turn it over to [unclear: "the chair" (Whisper); not in the captions; probably "Frank"].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So I just wanted to update you on where we were and where we are now with the discussion with the state authorities in Vermont. You know, we talked about trying to get that agreement with them.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Um, and we do have a letter. And I'll, I'll show you the letter and [give you] some time to read it. This, uh, this letter is dated May 23rd, 2012, which was last Wednesday. But since this point, we've had some opportunity to discuss the contents of the letter with Vermont. They still stand by everything in the letter, and I can certainly share with you emails to that effect. But let me let you read this thing.

Israel Keyes: Okay.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So I think, pretty good letter.

Israel Keyes: I [unclear: "know that"; the FBI transcript has "I think I know that attorney"].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Really?

Israel Keyes: Yeah. Thomas, [unclear: "S Square"; perhaps "Esquire"].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Thomas, Thomas [unclear: "not"; perhaps "Donovan"]?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [It] goes by TJ.

Israel Keyes: [inaudible] something, that was [inaudible] years [inaudible].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Um, so here's my take on, on the letter.

Israel Keyes: Okay.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Um, I think it's, it really accomplishes everything that you want and that we want. Um, but as I told you, like, last week, this isn't a legal document.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: It's not a, uh, you know, it's not like it creates rights or you can enforce it or anything. But what this is, is a showing of good faith, you know, by, by the Vermont authorities. And they're basically saying, hey, we're on board, um, as long as Israel is cooperating with you, [you know,] we agree to do those things. Which effectively, you know, prevents them from running to the press and charging you under the state law, because after all, they know this letter's out here.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So, you know, it would be political suicide if they tried to do anything with their case without [unclear: "these" (both readings); probably "at least"] consulting with us first. So this is, you know, in, in my mind, the home run. Um, I, I remember last time, you know, you said something about showing it to your attorneys. I mean, do you want them to look at this, or do you want to...

Israel Keyes: If you could forward them, email them a copy of that...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Sure.

Israel Keyes: ...yeah, that would be good, I guess. It, it seems that the letter is addressed to, uh, Kevin Feldis. So, I mean, that makes me feel better. Obviously it's addressed to, [if] it's addressed to me, I can't really put any stock in it...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Sure.

Israel Keyes: ...[but] if it's a communication between the two of them, then that's good. And I also noticed that it's written by the state attorney, um, versus fed, federal attorney. But you said that the, oh wait, now the state, now, so that's, that's the prosecuting attorney for the, for the county or the district?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: That's for the, the State of, the State of Vermont.

Israel Keyes: So she's federal?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: No, she's a state prosecutor.

Israel Keyes: Oh, okay.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So she is, uh, under the state's attorney here, is Tom, TJ Donovan. And so this is the Chittenden County prosecutor's office. They handle all state crimes committed in Chittenden County, which, my understanding, that's where Essex is, right next to [unclear: "so" (captions) / "Essex Davis, right next door" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "Burlington"]. So, you know, in terms of the federal prosecutors, you know, they're within Department of Justice anyway. So, you know, we're on the same team, so to speak, as them.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: It was just a matter of the state and locals. And, you know, I've been emailing back and forth with these people. Um, I can share that with you, uh, some of it. But I just want to make clear, I mean, you certainly, I can, I can email that to your standby counsel, no problem. Um, are you okay talking about this letter, um, today without [them] present?

Israel Keyes: Yeah, yeah, I don't mind talking about it. I just, uh, wanted to have them review it...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Sure.

Israel Keyes: ...see what, get their take on it. I wasn't even going to ask them for their advice, [just] to see what they had to say about it.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: It's up to you [unclear: "the advice from it" (captions) / "Mr. Miller, for your advice on it" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has Russo saying it is up to Keyes whether to take their advice]. But, you know, like I said, this isn't like a legally binding contract. [unclear: "I is going to contend it is" (captions) / "Not only is it going to depend on it" (Whisper); probably "I don't think anybody's going to contend it is"]. It's basically, you know, just a document that...

Israel Keyes: [It] just puts some of the facts on the table.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: It puts the facts and their intentions on the table, which is really what, uh, it was a huge burden that came off of us last week when we got this. Um, obviously, you know, because we've been telling them you didn't want publicity, you wanted to kind of keep [a] low profile. Um, you know, the incident last Wednesday kind of complicated things for us, because then we, you know, they were basically wondering, well, [does] he want publicity? Or, sounds like he does. So that was their perspective on things. So I spent some time, um, chatting with Mary Morrissey, um, and she's the prosecutor here. You know, she copies the Essex police chief and the other detective on the case too, on the Currier case. Um, but basically, you know, their, their request, and, you know, the email is, you know, they, they certainly may have other questions about the Currier case. So they were wondering, hey, you know, would it be okay to conference them in? I said, we could talk about that in a conference call tomorrow, as to what kind of questions they had, [and] run those by you. But basically, this, after the incident last Wednesday, we were able to kind of go talk to them again and explain, you know, I listened to your conversation with Jeff and Steve on Thursday. It seems clear that you're still on board with, you know, this sort of agreement. And I [unclear: "go back to them" (captions) / "told that to them" (Whisper)] and say, look, this is just a [unclear: "prim of opportunity" (captions) / "prime opportunity" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "crime of opportunity"], the escape thing. He's serious about, uh, about cooperating. So I confirmed that to them, and they confirmed today that, um, you know, they are, uh, you know, they're still on board. [unclear: "You want to see that, have to show if you want" (captions) / "And if you want to see them, you don't have to show them anymore" (Whisper); probably an offer to show Keyes the email].

Israel Keyes: Uh, sure.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So it leaves out the bottom, which is my sort of long-hand, long-winded explanation of what happened.

Officer Jeff Bell: But it starts at the bottom, right?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah. Well, that's the bottom question to her, and she basically says in there, do you need me to send another letter, like an updated date on the letter? Uh, I said, you know, [unclear: "I think this email is sufficient" (captions) / "I need this email as official" (Whisper)].

Israel Keyes: All right. Well, [unclear: "like we're progress" (captions) / "I believe we're in progress" (Whisper); probably "sounds like we're making progress"].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: I think so. I think this is a great amount of progress, where we are, and I think, you know, it's going to help us move the ball forward. Um, you know, just to sort of reiterate, they basically have said and agreed that, um, they know it's important to you to sort of avoid media attention, to, um, you don't want law enforcement identifying you in connection with the Currier matter. That they're prepared to do. Um, and they're prepared to continue cooperating. And in exchange, you're agreeing to be truthful about other crimes and bodies. And in here they specifically mention the name of the victim in New York.

Israel Keyes: Right. They want to know about that.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah. So, as it says...

Officer Jeff Bell: [unclear: "I'm kind close to them" (captions); not in Whisper]

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: And I have a conference call tomorrow with them, and I'd like to be able to tell them that you're continuing to cooperate and [you've] provide[d] that information.

Israel Keyes: I do want to continue to cooperate. Um, I'm having some issues as far as, uh, this is somewhat of an unrealistic expectation on my part, but I was thinking there might be a way to disclose all this information to you, to the FBI, and to some way ensure, somehow ensure that, uh, we could work out some sort of agreement that, you know, I give you all the answers on these cases, and, and families get closure, and you find as many, as many of them as possible. And, um, and in return for that, you know, I, you know, I don't plan on being around a whole lot longer, but a really big concern to me is, um, you know, my kid's going to be around. I don't want her to, like, type my name in the computer and [have it] pop up, like, you know, I, you know, I already know stuff's going to come up. I know that. But, um, I just, uh, try to minimize that at this point, I guess, is what I was hoping to do. And, um, apparently it's going to be really difficult, uh, to get that assurance. So I'm trying to, you know, figure out a way we can still do that. I think there is, you know, I have a few ideas on, on how [to] work it out, but...

Special Agent Steve Payne: What are your ideas?

Israel Keyes: Well, I, I'm not sure if they're feasible yet. I've been talking to [unclear: "from people" (captions) / "some people" (Whisper)] about it, from what can happen, you know, I guess, a legal perspective. You know, it's one thing to, to make assurances, you know, you know, that's, that's great. I mean, if we get some of the stuff on the table for now, it helps us deal with the problems for right now. But, um, you know, down the road, that's what I'm concerned about. I'm not going to be around, you know, which is fine, but that doesn't, uh, doesn't change the fact that, you know, like, just because, just because I'm not connected with it right away, you know, [it] could happen later. And so I'm trying to, I guess, maybe cover myself that way as much as possible and still get you what you need.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, I think, um, you know, sort of the plan I drafted up, I mean, this is sort of a good starting point. You're right, I mean, no one can guarantee you that you're never going to be connected to some of these things. Um, what we can do to respond to some of this is create this sort of snowball effect of the jurisdictions.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: And we started with Vermont. I mean, we know, even though we gave Vermont the information up front, we know it's, it's possible.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Because we just did it. And it will be even, we're in a better position in other jurisdictions when we go to them and say, all right, look, we've got Vermont down, we've got a body in New York. Um, either get on board [unclear: "and" (captions); probably "or"] we're not going to play with you. Um...

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: It creates this snowball effect with momentum. No one's going to try to get in the way of that. So, I mean, you know, sort of the plan we sort of lined out for you, it was my hope that that's something we can use as a model. We used Vermont as a model, and now it's, it's certainly, it's working. We're taking a big step in Vermont, saying, all right, you know what, you guys, obviously it's, it's [unclear: "keys are solving" (captions) / "easy solving" (Whisper); probably "Keyes who's solving"], at least, the Currier crime, and we're going to defer to Alaska, and we're going to give you what you [need]. But in return, you know, we're not, we're not going to say anything. We['ll] keep things under the radar. We're not going to link it publicly. We're not going to make [a] splash [in] the media. Which I think is, as far as law enforcement guarantees or insurances, it's as good as it gets.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: And I think, um, you know, we can do this. We can continue on doing this, because, I mean, we've been doing a good job [unclear: "of M, M's" (captions) / "doing a lot for months" (Whisper); probably "in Vermont, Vermont's"] been doing a great job. And I think, um, you know, they're aware of New York now too, and that's, quite frankly, what got them over the line.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Remember, we [were] talking, like, give, give us something to take to Vermont.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: And when we got New York, we went to [Vermont] and said, you know, because of your cooperation, we got New York. And then that immediately generated this letter of intent. So, but in order to kind of keep, I think, [unclear: "the mods" (both readings); probably "Vermont"] on board, it certainly would be nice to kind of say, all right, you know, based upon your letter, we also got, [unclear: "next the name" / "the next name"], the name of a victim, [unclear: "rication" (captions) / "orientation" (Whisper); probably "the location"] of the body. And, you know, we already have their assurance about the Currier matter. You don't have to worry about what's happening with that, because that's all tied up in this. And we can do the same thing with New York.

Israel Keyes: Right. Where are they at with the, did they find the bodies yet?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [inaudible] It's [like] a football field.

Special Agent Steve Payne: They're making, they're making progress, but it's just, it's...

Israel Keyes: It could still be like a couple weeks or something.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Yeah, it definitely [could].

Officer Jeff Bell: They're not going to stop.

Special Agent Steve Payne: This, you know...

Israel Keyes: Tenacious.

Special Agent Steve Payne: One of the best analogies I've heard for it is it's more like an archaeological [dig]. Uh, it is just going through and kind of tossing things until you find what you think you're looking for.

Israel Keyes: [unclear: "A lot of trouble" (Whisper only); the FBI transcript has "that's a lot of trouble to go to"]. I almost feel guilty. Costing the taxpayers a lot of money.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Well, [unclear: "that's kind of what I'll say" (Whisper only)].

Israel Keyes: [Could have] just kept my mouth shut.

Officer Jeff Bell: But that's how committed that, you know, the FBI...

Israel Keyes: No, I understand. Well, it sounds like they've got it. They've got the area. They just got to find it.

Special Agent Steve Payne: They're very confident [of] that, and they've been finding things that are in the right time frame and are, you know, from, uh, residences and businesses in that immediate area. So they're confident they're in the right area, but as you can imagine, it's something that they're trying to do precisely [and] accurately.

Israel Keyes: Um, and there hasn't been, I haven't honestly, I haven't had access to any news stories related to that. I saw the one that you showed me.

Officer Jeff Bell: That's the last one. I'm, I [unclear: "do it" (Whisper); not in the captions] almost every day. There's nothing...

Israel Keyes: They haven't, it's kind of a dead story.

Officer Jeff Bell: So, I mean, I think what I've heard too is you, you're, you're wanting to take responsibility. Your plan is to take responsibility if you can figure out how to do this without getting the recognition. Which is kind of like what's going on [in] Vermont.

Israel Keyes: Yeah. Right. My concern, the problem is nowadays, uh, the more stuff my name is attached to, the more likely it is that somebody's going to try to do some kind of stupid freaking TV special, or, you know, you know how it is nowadays, like, with all this true crime bullshit that people are obsessed with. And that's, uh, I'm not even so concerned at this point about, uh, you know, because so far I feel like we have been able to work within the guidelines of what we both said we would. Uh, but I'm, I'm, yeah, I am concerned about that, about someone connecting the dots on this. And, um, I, I don't know how, like, the right, there, I know there's certain privacy laws, but I know that, you know, for the most case, they're not going to apply to me. And, uh, so I know that, um, at some point it's pretty likely that if someone tried hard enough, they could, you know...

Special Agent Steve Payne: Not so much, because this is, we got a couple of things, uh, sort of working in our favor on this. One is, it's an ongoing investigation.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Special Agent Steve Payne: And so that right there is going to limit the amount of information that's going to be released. Um, and two, it's an ongoing federal investigation, and we play by a whole different set of rules than most of the states out there. And so media, media outlets don't have the same ability to come in and sort of force us, if you will, to disclose information, uh, that they might be able to get away with with state [and] local agencies.

Israel Keyes: Right. Yeah, I can see that, that they would have more to go up against. But there's also, I mean, um, if I'm dead, then the investigation from the federal government's point of view is pretty much closed.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Not necessarily. I mean, we're going to do what we need to do to tie up the loose ends. And to the extent that we can do that with your assistance, like we, we've talked in the past, if, if we go at this as a team and we have the benefit of your information, it allows us to go hunting with the rifle [unclear: "in the" (captions) / "go home and look delightful" (Whisper); probably "instead of a"] shotgun.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Special Agent Steve Payne: And there may be things that we wind up having to follow up on down the road, um, when you're no longer in a position to assist us, but...

Officer Jeff Bell: Yeah, our idea is to, is to do this with you so that it's focused. And we won't, and it's not going to get anywhere near like it is in Vermont, because we've all learned from that stuff. But the way to get it like that is for us to have to try and figure it out ourselves. And that's what we, and you know that. You know exactly what, what we're faced with, and what kind of publicity we're all going to be faced with, and questions that we're going to have to answer, and that these other agencies are going to be asking us. And those are the things that we're trying to avoid, knowing that you're the only one that can help us keep this to a, as little publicity as possible. It's, it's up to you.

Israel Keyes: All right, well...

Officer Jeff Bell: So that's, that's where we're at with...

Special Agent Steve Payne: And the reality is, if [unclear: "people" (both readings); probably "we're"] not able to do this with your assistance, I can't imagine being able to do this without [unclear: "gener Paramount publicity" (captions) / "generating care for them" (Whisper); probably "generating a fair amount of publicity"]. I just don't think it's possible, because it's going to be too large in scope, and it's going to involve too many, too many jurisdictions and too many agencies.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Special Agent Steve Payne: I'm just being honest.

Israel Keyes: Yeah, I mean, I know, I know you've got to move along with your investigation. Uh, unfortunately, due to my own actions recently, I, um, somewhat complicated matters for me. So, um, not surprisingly, now there's something else I want out of this. But I don't know if I'm even supposed to talk to that, about that yet, because I haven't even found out, like, what [the] options are.

Officer Jeff Bell: Something that you can talk about that's not related to...?

Israel Keyes: No, it's just, like, the level of restriction they have me on at the jail makes a, I mean, namely, like, my so-called rec time is now fresh air time, because I go out like this. [unclear: "like this, or so" (Whisper only); the FBI transcript has "leg irons and stuff"]. No more running [unclear: "on the surface" (Whisper) / "cig" (captions); the FBI transcript has "in circles"]. I guess they [unclear: "barely make me bad enough" (Whisper only); the FBI transcript has "figured they'd make me fat"]. Yeah, they keep me in my cell [enough], I['ll] get fat, and I won't want to run anymore. But, um, yeah, I, I know this, I know that's unrelated to anything we've talked about so far. Obviously it's a new situation, but [it] doesn't really change the fact it's an everyday reality for me. So, so I'm trying to figure out what, what, if any, options there are regarding...

Officer Jeff Bell: Within that, within the system?

Israel Keyes: Yeah. Anyway, um, that and, like I say, I, um, I think so far, yeah, things have worked fine. I, uh, but, yeah, I am concerned about, um, not so much the right, like, right here and now publicity. I think we can keep that under wraps to a large extent. I'm more worried, if it's possible, I intend to do something, take steps to minimize the down-the-road publicity.

Officer Jeff Bell: [inaudible; the FBI transcript has a short question here that names Keyes's daughter]

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, and, um...

Israel Keyes: Because honestly, you guys, I, you know, you know, I mean, there's nothing, I'm, I'm not trying to get anything else out of this at this point. And, um, as you know, I did say, you know, I wanted to just get this all cleared up, and that way you're not digging for who knows how many years down the road, you know, trying to connect the dots, and just make it all go away. But, um, uh, but I don't know. I, I just have to figure out the best way to do that, to make it all go away.

Officer Jeff Bell: Well, I understand that too. And I, [you've] heard me say this many, many times, but the, at some point in time, you may, your choices may, your choice may be, the reality could be that [daughter's name withheld] and everybody else knows what you did based on what you said you did. Or everybody else, including [daughter's name withheld], [gets] to see the fiasco and the media frenzy that is created by law enforcement trying to figure out what, [unclear: "specul"], speculating what you did. Because I told you, you know, on the one trip that we looked at, um, surrounding New York, we have ten viable, well, people that are missing that we know of. Those are just the ones that are still reported that way. And so, if we have to, and we know you didn't do, do that, but that's what, that's what we're looking at in each one of these, these trips, is we're faced with, if, if you don't tell us, our options are to be public with that agency, because we can't ask questions...

Israel Keyes: Right.

Officer Jeff Bell: ...and not expect questions in return. And so we are, we're, we're really living up to our end of the bargain. And because at this point in the investigation, if you weren't cooperating with us, this would already have been happening, [and] the media frenzy would be crazy, with us trying to figure it out. Because we do have enough information on your, on your trips, at least to do police work.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Officer Jeff Bell: Not that we're going to come, like, you, you, you don't think we're [going to] find anything out, but we have to try. And so, and I know that's tough for you to think about, in, in the future, is that the reality may be that, you know, one's worse than the other, obviously.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Officer Jeff Bell: So...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Especially the one in New York. I mean, the only reason we're not just showing you a picture is these guys [unclear: "in" (both readings); perhaps "and"] the FBI have been incredibly restrained about asking that part of the country for assistance. Because if they ask that part of the country for assistance, [unclear: "you need get response" (captions) / "you need a different response" (Whisper); probably "the immediate response"] is going to be, what do you have? [Who do] you have? And so that's the reason we're not sitting here throwing, you know, pictures in front of you and going to you first. Because, you know, we understand you're cooperating with us, Vermont understands it, and that's why they're on board. And we['d] just like to continue that effort instead of, you know, having this whole media frenzy too, [quite frankly]. And, you know, with respect to [daughter's name withheld], I mean, there is that whole frenzy that's going to be created, you know, uh, if, if things slow down, I think. Um, you know, we touched on this last time, is that there may be some benefit at the end of this to, well, the media says that Israel Keyes killed 40 people, which [is] based upon some wild speculation, as opposed to he killed 10 and then also gave closure to those families as his sort of last effort. And, and I know that doesn't matter to you. It may matter to her.

Officer Jeff Bell: And, you know, we're always going to be bound to not talk about this, just like we are now. And assume you're not going to be telling people details, other people that [unclear: "could" (captions) / "you're going to meet with" (Whisper)], you know...

Israel Keyes: What do you mean? Well, I mean, you do press releases all the time.

Officer Jeff Bell: Yeah, but you, but, but you know that the details of this, these investigations are right here, right now, and that a lot of these details [unclear: "aren't going to be released" (captions) / "are going to be released" (Whisper)].

Israel Keyes: Well, that is my concern, that, um, yeah, I, I, how much, I, I don't know. [I don't see,] I don't know that, because I, I mean, I see, you know, I, I watch the [news], there, there are press releases that are done on other crimes.

Special Agent Steve Payne: So, press releases, though, are different than what I think you're worried about, and rightly so. Press releases are designed for, to help us gather additional information. So our release of information, while, while [an] investigation's ongoing, is limited to the absolute minimum necessary to try and obtain the additional information that we're seeking.

Israel Keyes: Okay.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Does that make sense?

Israel Keyes: Yeah, it makes sense.

Special Agent Steve Payne: And as long as the investigation is ongoing, we're not going to be throwing out information just for the sake of throwing it out. That's not the way we operate.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Special Agent Steve Payne: You've seen specials on the FBI. [I mean,] come on, everybody talks about our secret files and how we never give up anything, right?

Israel Keyes: Yeah.

Special Agent Steve Payne: There you go.

Israel Keyes: Well, yeah, I mean, [unclear: "look's" / "let's"], like I say, I want to have a chance to, to talk about the letter with some people, and I want to have a chance to hear back on the other thing. I'm not going to hold my breath on that, but [I want to] see what the options are. And, like I say, I would have preferred to wait until they find the bodies in Vermont, but it sounds like that could be a while. So I guess as long as we have that letter from them, then, you know, as soon as I have a chance to look it over [and] have other people look it over, [then we can] move on to the New York trip. That, I mean, you guys already have information on it. [You] probably have more than I remember at this point, except, I, except for [unclear: "you" (Whisper only); the FBI transcript has "certain details"].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: And we could have those too. And so we're just sort of holding that in [unclear: "advance" (captions) / "at the banks" (Whisper); probably "abeyance"] while...

Israel Keyes: Yeah, [no,] I understand.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So that's the only reason. So, um, just so I'm clear, I can tell Vermont tomorrow on this conference call that, um, you appreciate their letter, and you intend to go forward...

Israel Keyes: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [inaudible] reasonable [inaudible].

Israel Keyes: Yeah, especially, I mean, especially on the New York case, because I've already given you so much information on it. [We've] got, can't really stop on that one now, so.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Um, one thing that might be helpful, and I don't think this is giving away anything, so we can [just] start thinking along those terms. Kevin is back east at the meeting of criminal chiefs, and, um, it certainly would be nice for him to start networking [with] whatever criminal chief he needs to, in terms of the New York thing. Now, you know, again, I don't, I don't think that gives away anything. You have, you just told us the body is in New York. We want to start striking up relationships with whatever criminal chief he needs to talk to, or will need to talk to, about the New York thing. [unclear: "really said committ" (captions) / "Is that what you said?" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "'cause you've already said you've committed the crime"].

Israel Keyes: Yeah, but, I mean, I don't want to talk, I don't [unclear: "want to hear" (Whisper); omitted in the captions; probably "want to give out"] any more information on it. I mean, I understand his point of view, but it's, you know, like I say, it's still, uh, frankly, that's going to be too much, [if] I, at this point. I don't want to go there yet, until I, until I find out where I'm at with what we, you know, the new developments.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Okay, what about, um, and I'm just thinking about his trip, because he'd asked me to come [and] ask you these things. [Since] he's going to be there, he's also with the people in Washington. I mean, you've already talked to us about Washington, and these guys...

Israel Keyes: Washington State?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [They] have some pictures they want to show you about that.

Officer Jeff Bell: Just to let you know that we did...

Israel Keyes: Oh, [unclear: "you" (captions) / "I" (Whisper); probably "they"] found the boat.

Officer Jeff Bell: [inaudible]

Israel Keyes: [It's] had better days.

Officer Jeff Bell: [That] cover was a good investment, though.

Israel Keyes: Really?

Officer Jeff Bell: [It's] still on [it].

Israel Keyes: [unclear: "shape" (captions only); the FBI transcript has "Is it in good shape?"] Looks like it's a little [unclear: "weaky" (captions) / "really easy" (Whisper); probably "leaky"] at this point.

Officer Jeff Bell: [It] was still in his driveway, just, uh, just sitting there. He hadn't touched it.

Israel Keyes: Yeah, I had big plans for that boat.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [inaudible; in the FBI transcript Russo asks what the plans were]

Israel Keyes: Oh, I was going to bring it up here [inaudible]. Um, [then] I decided it was time to [unclear: "the last" (captions) / "be the last one" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "leave Alaska anyway"]. I probably would have picked it up [unclear: "there" (Whisper)]. It's been there for a long time. [inaudible]

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So the thing about Washington is a little, a little simpler from his perspective. There's only two federal districts there, eastern and western. Eastern is more like [unclear: "to goak" (captions) / "to come than" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "Tacoma and"] Yakima. Western is Seattle.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: It's [unclear: "okaka" (captions) / "OK in" (Whisper); probably "Spokane"], Yakima, and then Seattle, Tacoma, that's in the west. I think he'd like to be in a position to sort of just chat very briefly with one of those criminal chiefs, if not both, if he needs to, to sort of lay the foundation.

Israel Keyes: Well, the problem I have with talking about anything related to Washington is, um, [I'm] not playing ball with the right people, because those, I'm almost positive they're not going to be federal. In case they're not federal cases.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Well, I think Kevin explained to you that...

Israel Keyes: [inaudible] Different stuff [unclear: "will happen" (Whisper only)].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Okay. Well, I mean, I think Kevin explained to you that the jurisdiction that we can exercise is pretty expansive, especially if it's, you know...

Israel Keyes: Right. No, I, I understand that, but again, [this is] going to be hard to talk about without getting [into the] stuff we're not supposed to talk about. But, um, uh, depending on things, you know, the way things pan out, you know, [the] things we've already talked about, then, uh, I may need those details, uh, of the Washington cases, that, um, that I would be better served to wait, you know, to, um, if that's where, the route I have to go. [Do] you know what I mean?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: I think I do. [I'm] not sure. [I mean,] we've talked a little bit about...

Israel Keyes: Because, yeah, because there's a big difference between state and federal, it seems, and it seems like Washington might be a state that...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: But that's something that we can sort of start working on in the background, just so you know. You know, [I'm] not asking [you] here now, today, but that's something that usually does require cooperation between even the federal districts, even if they're state [unclear: "Banks" (captions) / "banks" (Whisper); probably "things"].

Israel Keyes: So you're saying there's two, I'm sorry, two dist, two districts in [Washington]?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: There's two districts in Washington.

Israel Keyes: Federal districts?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah. So there's two federal districts that would probably just sort of [unclear: "roach with" (captions) / "approach with" (Whisper)]. One in, in Spokane and Yakima, [unclear: "for the main offices in" (captions) / "the lead office is the one" (Whisper)], and then Seattle and Tacoma are the western district. So that's just [the] dividing line. I don't know exactly where it is, but pretty much, you know, Seattle, Tacoma, [is] where most of the crimes are.

Israel Keyes: [unclear: "And" (Whisper)] Ellensburg?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, I think that's, that's, Ellensburg is, uh...

Israel Keyes: Ellensburg is west [or] east?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: East.

Israel Keyes: East.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [inaudible] Ellensburg [inaudible].

Israel Keyes: [unclear: "We have to be bold visitors" (Whisper only); the FBI transcript has Keyes saying they will need both districts] Because I don't, yeah.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Well, it's something, I mean, the good thing about Washington is we have some pretty good relationships with both U.S. Attorneys there, and, you know...

Israel Keyes: Yeah, no, I understand what you're saying, but, um, [unclear: "that was years ago" (captions) / "I don't know, Ellsberg, you're using this" (Whisper)]. But, no, I, um, it just seems like I might end up having to talk to, like, state people there. I don't know.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: I don't know either, but I mean, the good thing is the federal people have their counterparts. You know, like Vermont was pretty connected with the Chittenden County folks.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: We can sort of get them on board, and, and [it] makes the transition easier, sort of move forward [in their] jurisdiction, if, if that's the way you choose to go. Obviously, everyone would have to be on board anyway.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So, um, that's what's useful for him, to sort of give [them a] heads-up.

Special Agent Steve Payne: And I think, Frank, correct me if I'm wrong, obviously, but I think the sooner that, uh, they have that opportunity, the less likely you are to [kind of] get drug from one jurisdiction to another, because they'll already be things in place.

Israel Keyes: Yeah. No, I, um, I'm a little, I, my concern at this point is, uh, not knowing, like I say, how current things are going to pan out. Um, the information that I still have, uh, could come in handy if I need it. And if I give it out now, I mean, yeah, I don't think I'll need it in that respect, but, you know, you never know. I don't know, I don't know what's going to happen. And, and if I give it all out now, particularly, you know, anything about Washington, uh, that could seriously compromise my options, future options.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: I think, um, sort of, [unclear: "I can bring that back to me" (captions) / "as I bring that back to you" (Whisper)] at some point, obviously, you know, we can take this staggered approach, which I think is probably a good one, to go to different places, doing one at a time. But, um, the plan that, that we proposed to you is to do exactly that. So, like, you sort of do the New York one, we make sure we have everybody on board in the New York one, whatever jurisdictions we need to, get that information agreement in place, and then we can move on to Washington.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Washington, you know, basically would have the same agreement. And then, you know, [it] could be an option that you could always use later down the road. If you don't like the way things are, are going, you can ask us to simply say, hey, you know, there's that thing in Washington that I helped you on, can you, you know, reach out to those people again and, and see what they're willing to do. So there is that. I mean, I, I, I get you if you don't want to kind of, you know, sort of give away cards, but I think the, the plan that we proposed to you [is] sort of a one-at-a-time staggered approach, [where] we eventually get...

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: ...where we need to be going, and it doesn't, like, result in this [unclear: "land just massive" (captions) / "plan, just massive" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "land mass of publicity"].

Israel Keyes: Yeah, but it is going to have to be spread out over the next who knows how long, because I don't plan on, like I say, until certain issues, ongoing issues right now are resolved, I don't plan on giving out all, [unclear: "these notes to someone" (Whisper only)], that's just, well, that's not true. I mean, if I get, you know, I, who knows how, I don't know how long this is going to take. I don't know. You know, I, my impression is that there could be a pretty wide range of time frames that could happen. Uh, but, yeah, first and foremost, you know, one step at a time. I've got to, I've got to have a chance to tackle, you know, [unclear: "what issues" (captions) / "the issues that I'm going to play with" (Whisper)].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Um, yeah, we can sort of review that. Obviously, [you] need to think about this. There's one suggestion in [the] email about other details in the Currier, um, case that they may want to know about, and [they] may want to conference call in. Now that you have this letter, how [do] you feel about that?

Israel Keyes: That's, I mean, with who? Is it with the...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [The local] investigators.

Israel Keyes: So, like, the detectives [unclear: "wrong Cas" (captions) / "Is there one on the case?" (Whisper); probably "that were on the case"]?

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Now, we can do it two ways. I don't know if they're going to have a lot of questions. If they have a few, we can simply ask those and [sort of] get them the information they need, you know...

Israel Keyes: Is it going to be just, like, a few people? I mean, you say conference call...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Just whoever's on the other line. I don't know who would be on the line. Probably just the detective and the prosecutor.

Israel Keyes: Okay.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: That's, you know...

Israel Keyes: I don't, I don't know. I, seems like it'd be better, I don't have a problem with that, it's just, it seems like it'd be better if there's not a ton of people on it, since we're still trying to keep it on the [unclear: "down I" (captions) / "up and down" (Whisper); probably "down low"].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [Yeah,] I mean, it would only be people who were bound by this letter, if it is. [unclear: "Other than people that just need it" (Whisper) / "people just" (captions)].

Israel Keyes: Like I say, I feel like I've already given all the information they need, but if they want more, that's fine.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: I think they have some follow-up about what the house looked like and things like that. But they, they're just dealing with some administrative issues on their end. They're trying to release the house to the family, and then they're trying to get rid of the house, so they're not going to keep it the way it was. [So] they [want to] make sure they document everything they need...

Israel Keyes: [unclear: "Ready? Ready. Yeah." (Whisper only); the FBI transcript has Keyes saying "Right, okay, yeah"]

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [unclear: "They have this insurance problem" (captions) / "They have this chance of having problems" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "given that they have this assurance, I don't think it's a problem"]. Maybe they don't have much, but [I'll] talk to [them] about that tomorrow.

Israel Keyes: Yeah, that's fine. And, I, I [unclear: "can say you can forward that" (captions) / "could say if people go over that" (Whisper)]. [I] imagine very shortly [I'll] have a chance to talk to them about it.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah. Yeah. That's fine.

Israel Keyes: There's [the] issue with the U.S. Marshals [inaudible].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, I don't know. Security's a difficult thing. They kind of basically tell us to mind our own business when it comes to security.

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So it's, you know, that kind of thing. I mean, I don't know. It's a difficult situation, [unclear: "even happen there" (captions) / "to think about that" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "given what happened"].

Officer Jeff Bell: They're responsible for you, [in] custody, so they would have been, [unclear: "so they look pretty cool" (Whisper only); the FBI transcript has "they would have looked pretty foolish"], [if you had] gotten too much farther. So they're probably not, who knows. I doubt they're going to be open to much of your suggestions, but I don't know.

Israel Keyes: [unclear: "They're" (Whisper) / "I'm" (captions)] not going to take any of my suggestions? [Crosstalk; Whisper has "That's fine."] My suggestions seem to hold less and less water lately.

Officer Jeff Bell: I'm sure they're very polite about it, though.

Israel Keyes: Yeah. They all seemed quite highly amused last time I was at the courthouse. Yeah, definitely seemed to [have] changed their protocol for the way they do [things].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [unclear: "Laing" (captions) / "lining" (Whisper); probably "livening"] things up a little bit. We weren't sure exactly how to deal [with] this situation with [unclear: "the mom" (Whisper); omitted in the captions; the FBI transcript has "Vermont"], given that.

Israel Keyes: Yeah, that was not well thought out on my part. As soon as these guys mentioned that, I was like, oh shit, one more thing I didn't think of before I did that.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: You seem to have a basic plan, but just sort of [the] A to B, and then C is sort of left out there.

Israel Keyes: Yeah, well, it wasn't really, like, a high probability of success there, [in the best of] circumstances.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [unclear: "understand" (captions)]. Obviously...

Israel Keyes: Like half a football team of U.S. Marshals [unclear: "put me in" (Whisper) / "me in" (captions); probably "between me and"] the door, so.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: And then Officer Bell.

Israel Keyes: Yes. Pretty sure I saw him come in. He's claiming he didn't.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Do you have anything else you want to talk about, or questions you have on these other matters?

Israel Keyes: No, I, I think the, I mean, from my perspective, I think the letter's good. I, um, but, yeah...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [In] my perspective...

Israel Keyes: I'm glad they're still willing to work with [unclear: "them" (Whisper); omitted in the captions; the FBI transcript has "me on it"].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [Yeah, I mean,] this is a home run from my perspective. Um, you know, and you certainly [can check] it out. These people are who they say they are. And, uh, you know, if [they] want to make a call to any of these people, I'm sure that they'll take the call and confirm that that's [unclear: "say dra" (captions) / "their state insurance" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "their signature"] on the letter.

Israel Keyes: But you, you did say that everyone on that is with the state, not with the feds.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Exactly.

Israel Keyes: Okay.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So the feds are already, you know, we've been talking to them [at] the outset, you know, under the Department of Justice...

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: ...anyway, so. They have [unclear: "a problem" (both readings); the FBI transcript has "no problem"], they just want...

Israel Keyes: And the state is, they're the entity that's more likely to want to release information on [unclear: "you" (both readings); probably "me"].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Exactly. And I can tell you, um...

Officer Jeff Bell: They were the ones responsible for the investigation.

Israel Keyes: Right. So they're...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, let me share this with you, um, [that] I think [is] kind of important, [and] the model on how to deal with things. I know that, you know, obviously there are reporters that called maybe friends or family members of, of you. I think what happened [at] the outset is, like we said, you know, we provided them the information. They didn't know what they were dealing with at first. They had no idea. And I think someone spoke, you know, [unclear: "at a turn, or at a school" (both readings); probably "out of turn, or out of school"], whatever you want to call it. Maybe one person over there. And now they've realized, oh shit, we shouldn't have said what we said. And, and they basically shut it down. No one can confirm that story. So I think it's incredibly helpful to have this sort of model going forward, and [to] be able to tell them, look, you know, we want to limit media attention...

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: ...[with the] New York victim. We want to kind of, uh, keep things in one jurisdiction. We want FBI to handle it, because we're dealing with something that's more than just your jurisdiction. [But for all] they knew, that, you know, it was just, you know, Alaska and the Curriers, and, oh boy, we've got some sort of, we've caught ourselves our suspect. They didn't understand the big picture. And I think that's what happened, because that was obviously a concern to us, you know, [when we were] talking to them. But I think when you get their perspective, I think they, they realize that, oh, [unclear: "something we should be doing" (captions) / "that's something we should be dealing with" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "this isn't something we should be doing"], and they, they realize the severity of it. And now I think we've got [a] pretty good relationship with them. And, you know, we're happy to talk to them as long as, you know, they're on board, they're, you know, part of the team. And again, we're just building momentum. [And] the next jurisdiction, you know, we can have Vermont, and they've offered to do that, [and] say, [inaudible] next jurisdiction simply, and say, hey, you know, we did this in our jurisdiction and it worked, and it worked well, you should too. And this way, you know, we've got state [and] local officers reaching out to the other jurisdiction, the state [and] locals there, and basically telling [them] this is a good idea. So really it gets the momentum, [it] snowballs, and it can't be stopped, and no one's going to get in the way [of] it. So I think that's the best way to control, you know, any kind of media attention here, is just [with the] cooperation of [unclear: "volun as a" (captions) / "competition as a whole" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "law enforcement as a whole"].

Israel Keyes: Right.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: I think, you know, [we've been] doing a good job...

Israel Keyes: I mean, at some point, though, I, I don't, I mean, I haven't felt like this so far, but I, I mean, I know you guys keep wanting information, and, and, uh, like I've said, I don't want to give out everything all at once. But, um, I just don't want us to get in [a] situation where, you know, we reach an impasse, and you're like, okay, we're going to go and start doing press releases now, or whatever, and then I, and then I'm going to be all pissed off, frankly. And, you know, and then, so, I mean, I, that's all I ask. I'm not saying this is going to remain a compatible relationship, obviously, but, you know, if we can keep it at least an open communication...

Officer Jeff Bell: And that's why we're, frankly, we came over there today, and you told us you weren't in a [unclear: "talkative move" (captions) / "going to talk at a movie" (Whisper); probably "talkative mood"], [and] we still wanted to bring you over, because we still want to keep this...

Israel Keyes: All right.

Officer Jeff Bell: ...this relationship going. You know, we're getting pressures, we're all getting pressures from the powers [that] be that control us, our bosses, to, to get information. You understand that. We, we all have jobs to do, and so we just want to keep the communication open.

Israel Keyes: That, and that's my, I guess that's what I'm saying. I'm not so concerned about the people in this room. I'm concerned about people putting pressure on you to get the answers. I imagine they, you know, they don't care about my agenda. They want all the answers, like, right now, you know, and I understand that. But, um, I just hope it doesn't come to that. I just hope it doesn't come to, like, a standoff.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, I, you know, this is a business deal. I think, you know, Agent Payne explained it. It's sort of, you know, it's just a, it's a business deal, and it's kind of strange, because, you know, obviously we all have different interests, but that's usually the case in any kind of business deal, is you have stuff that we want, and we have, you know, things that we can assure you of that, you know, is [of] some value to you, I think. And so in any kind of business deal, like I said, negotiations, any good negotiations, everybody walks away from the table, you know, [not] getting exactly what they want. And I think, you know, we, we've basically been able to manage our supervisors that way, by saying, look, he's not going to give us everything up front. Okay? He's not going to do it. But we're able to kind of say, hey, but, but he will maybe give us one at a time and draw it out for a period of time, to keep sort of the benefit of the bargain for us, and not expending man-hours, and, you know, going through all the, the press and media and, you know, other local departments. So, yeah, we're not getting exactly what we want, and you're probably not getting exactly what you want. You'd probably like to not give us any of it. But, you know, it's a business deal, and, you know, we're keeping up our end [of] it. [And] I think we can continue to work together as [long as] we're reasonable.

Israel Keyes: Yeah, I, I just, I just wanted to, I figured that was the case. I just wanted to let you know that's what I was thinking.

Officer Jeff Bell: But know that when we're, while we're doing what we're doing, our responsibilities, and talking to you and trying to keep this going, there are lots of other people out there investigating trips and airline tickets and phone logs and things like that, doing what police do. And there's going to come a point in time where, when that investigation reaches a point where they think they have some information that they need to act on, where, that's the timeline we're going to be pushed up against...

Israel Keyes: Right. All right.

Officer Jeff Bell: ...having them slow down.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Yeah.

Israel Keyes: Yeah. All right, well, um, yeah, and the only other thing is, on [a] more personal note, like I was saying earlier, my, uh, my brothers are visiting this week. And honestly, you know, like I say, that whole thing last week, I did not plan out very well. Uh, but I would prefer to just try not [to] think about any of this stuff this week [unclear: "here" (captions) / "This will be the other deer" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "while they're here"]. Not, I mean, it's not that I don't want to, it's just, I guess I'm just juggling too many things in my head right now. So, so, yeah, I, and then that'll give me a chance to, you know, talk [to] people about that and a couple other concerns I have, and...

Israel Keyes: But I mean, for now, I mean, for now, I think we, I, yeah, I'm just glad that they're still [unclear: "going to" (captions) / "going through" (Whisper)], I'm just, like, I, bottom line is, I'm glad I didn't hear about it on the news, like, [unclear: "month" (captions) / "the whole remote" (Whisper); probably "the whole Vermont"], I half expected them to do [unclear: "the testing" (Whisper); omitted in the captions; the FBI transcript has "a press release"] after [that].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, [I] know, and I think it's a testament to the relationships we built over there.

Israel Keyes: Yeah, so, I mean, yeah, as long as we can, yeah, [inaudible].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: So are they in town the whole, the whole week?

Israel Keyes: I think they leave on Sunday or Monday.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [unclear: "Yeah, Sunday" (Whisper only)]

Israel Keyes: And I, the, the main, it's not so much that I wouldn't want to, you know, if it's like a short, I don't have a problem [unclear: "from" (captions) / "when we're" (Whisper)], you know, talking. I, I just don't want to miss the time that they go over there to visit me or whatever. And I don't even know how, like, what the times are that they have available.

Officer Jeff Bell: Are they going to be able to visit you daily, you know?

Israel Keyes: Yeah, probably. I think so.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, so, I mean, I think that's just what I wanted to tell Vermont, because they, you saw in that email, they said, uh, you know, maybe you have some questions on Thursday or Friday. They've got some urgency about the house. So I don't know if it's...

Israel Keyes: That's fine. I mean, yeah.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, if you want to get a schedule about when they're going to come, we don't want to interfere with that, and we don't want to interfere [inaudible].

Israel Keyes: [unclear: "Eastern time" (captions) / "they're in the same time" (Whisper)], so if we did it in the morning, that would be fine.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Oh, no, I'm talking about your family coming to visit.

Officer Jeff Bell: He doesn't know. They don't, they don't...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: [It] may [be possible] later this week. I mean, obviously we [unclear: "would" (captions) / "I'll see you tomorrow" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "wouldn't"] do it tomorrow [or] the next day, but, um, you can sort of let them know we can set a meeting for Thursday or Friday.

Israel Keyes: No, that's what I'm saying. If you want to do a meeting, I'm just saying morning.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, sure. Eastern.

Israel Keyes: 9 or 10 our time. And then, [because] I know there's no visiting over there that early. And then...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Okay.

Israel Keyes: ...and then I would, yeah, still be around.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: That makes sense then, if we, if they [unclear: "ask to" (captions) / "have some" (Whisper)] follow up...

Israel Keyes: Yeah, if they have stuff they need to get out of the way.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Do you have a preference, Thursday or Friday?

Israel Keyes: No, I don't [unclear: "have a preference" (Whisper only); the FBI transcript has "I don't think it matters"]. [I have to] check my [unclear: "game points" (Whisper only); the FBI transcript has "day planner"].

Officer Jeff Bell: So you don't get the normal exercise, so they let you have the tennis shoes [unclear: "the torty" (captions) / "of porkery" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "that torture you"] that you can't run, or?

Israel Keyes: Yeah, uh, no, I just started wearing, I don't get [to] run anymore, so my tennis shoes, I don't, I don't lace them up tight anymore, so I just [wear them]. They're slippers now. They're not tennis shoes anymore.

Special Agent Steve Payne: So when you start lacing them up, we should be, we should pay attention?

Israel Keyes: Yeah, [if] they're, they're too tight for me to slip them on or slip them, slip them off [inaudible].

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Okay, so I'll email that to your attorneys, and, uh, [unclear: "may" (captions only)]...

Israel Keyes: Yeah.

Officer Jeff Bell: And we'll try to hold off. If we do something, it'll be like Friday morning early, that way we won't interrupt your [unclear: "team" (Whisper); omitted in the captions; probably "family"].

Israel Keyes: That's fine. I would think that would work.

Officer Jeff Bell: And then maybe by next week, say Tuesday or so, we can [inaudible].

Officer Jeff Bell: Well, and I think, if we're done, why don't we [unclear: "like get" (captions)] him a cigar, [since] we got you over here.

Israel Keyes: Awesome.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Wow, cigar for nothing.

Israel Keyes: [unclear: "How was?" (both readings); the FBI transcript has Keyes saying "That was"]

Special Agent Steve Payne: I like to think it's a cigar for [unclear: "good day" (captions) / "a good thing" (Whisper); the FBI transcript has "good faith"].

Israel Keyes: For good health.

Officer Jeff Bell: Yeah.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Ultimately, that's going to be up to you.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: Yeah, okay.

Israel Keyes: No, look, I mean, [if] we keep working on this...

Assistant U.S. Attorney Frank Russo: We're working on our end.

Special Agent Steve Payne: Yeah, we've done just about everything we can do at this stage. [unclear: "You can take it and put it back up here" (Whisper) / "tight back" (captions); probably "hang tight, we'll be right back"].

Israel Keyes: All right.

Investigator: [unclear: "How [you] going?" (captions) / "But that's where they are" (Whisper)]. [unclear: "What's that? Yeah." (captions only)] You want to hit the head first?

Israel Keyes: Yeah.