Anthony Sowell Questioned by Cleveland Police, 2009: Clip 6, the Homicide Detectives

Name: Anthony Sowell Questioned by Cleveland Police, 2009: Clip 6, the Homicide Detectives
Uploaded: 2011-07-14
Duration: 7 min 18 s
Description: Homicide detectives Melvin Smith and Lem Griffin take over the questioning, appeal to "the good side of Anthony", and ask about his heart condition, his Marine service and who lived in his house.

Homicide detectives Melvin Smith and Lem Griffin take over the questioning, appeal to "the good side of Anthony", and ask about his heart condition, his Marine service and who lived in his house.

Subject: Anthony Sowell
Recorded: October 31, 2009
Runtime: 7:18

Content warning: Homicide detectives question Sowell after the bodies of women were found in his house; the case concerned the murders of eleven women.

The Interview

After questioning by sex crimes detectives on October 31, 2009, Anthony Sowell was handed over to two homicide detectives, Melvin Smith and Lem Griffin. This clip, played to the jury at his trial in July 2011, begins in the courtroom: the judge notes that the tape resumes as the two detectives enter the room and tells Griffin, who is on the witness stand, not to talk to anyone at the trial table while it plays. On the tape, Smith introduces himself and his partner, tells Sowell "We're not pressing you against the wall", and appeals "to the good side of Anthony". He asks why Sowell had not come back to his house. Sowell answers, "I'm hardly there."

Historical Context

Police went to Sowell's house at 12205 Imperial Avenue on October 29, 2009, with a warrant on a rape complaint and found the bodies of two women. Over the following days the remains of eleven women were recovered from the house and yard: Tonia Carmichael, Nancy Cobbs, Tishana Culver, Crystal Dozier, Telacia Fortson, Amelda Hunter, Leshanda Long, Michelle Mason, Kim Smith, Diane Turner and Janice Webb. Sowell was arrested on October 31. Melvin Smith later recalled that the questioning lasted about twelve hours.

Circumstances of the Interview

The handover is visible on the tape: Detective Michael Baumiller of the sex crimes unit tells Sowell the new detectives are "good folks" and leaves. Smith and Griffin begin with water, cigarettes and reassurance, and with routine questions about his health and background before returning to the house.

What the Interview Covers

Sowell tells the detectives that he has a pacemaker and takes heart medication, including Plavix and a beta blocker, and names his doctor. He confirms that he served in the Marine Corps and left in 1985. Asked whether he lived alone, he says, "Well, don't nobody live with me now", and that a woman the police thought was living there was his stepmother, who was staying with her family. He says he does not know them, and the clip ends as Griffin asks for his cell phone number.

What Makes the Recording Significant

Sowell did not testify at his trial. His police interview, played to the jury as the last of the prosecution's evidence, is the main record of him answering questions about the case. This clip records the start of the homicide detectives' questioning, and the soft approach they took at first. According to AFP's report of the trial, later in the interview Sowell wept when asked about the bodies and said he had blackouts and heard "bad" voices; those passages are not in this clip.

Archival Importance

News 5 Cleveland posted the courtroom playback in several clips on July 14, 2011. The court reporter's text of the first part of this interview is published separately; this page adds the video and its sound, with a transcript made from the recording.

Important Caveats

What Sowell says here about where he lived and who lived with him is his own account. The courtroom remarks at the start are attributed to Judge Dick Ambrose from context. Some details are unclear in the audio, including the year Sowell gives for his pacemaker and whether Griffin says "honorable" or "dishonorable" discharge; the page should not state either until a listener checks them.

Judge: There will still be continuation of 345. Okay. Uh, so it's the continuation of that, because I believe when we left off it was when Detective Griffin and Detective Smith had entered the room. Okay. And Detective Griffin, I'll just ask you not to have any conversations with any other members of the trial table while the tape is playing, only because you're still technically on the witness stand.

Det. Lem Griffin: Absolutely.

Judge: Thank you. *(The police video is played in court.)*

Det. Lem Griffin: Hey, you want some water, some coffee or something, man?

Anthony Sowell: No, I had enough coffee.

Det. Melvin Smith: Some water? Some water? Cold bottle of water? Relax yourself a little bit more. You sweating? You sure?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Black coffee."]

Det. Michael Baumiller: Yeah. I think I got [inaudible].

Anthony Sowell: Thanks.

Det. Michael Baumiller: Mm-hmm. You know, [unclear: "there's a neighbor that sent you over here" / "these are made by the same people"], [unclear: "to make you feel right" / "that make Newports"].

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "You want to ask me what I want to... I mean, I asked what was the reason you got me"]

Voice: [unclear: "I didn't say anything."]

Det. Michael Baumiller: I think they're just [unclear: "being, just being nice" / "good, just good"]. [unclear: "What's up, man?"] Be real honest with [unclear: "this guy" / "these guys"].

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "I don't know. I talked to him about it."]

Det. Michael Baumiller: That's cool. My name's Mike. If you need anything, let me [know]. [unclear: "I know you're lying"] But they're, they're really good, good guys.

Anthony Sowell: I know the [unclear: "guy" / "game"]. I'm just, [unclear: "I tried to resolve it" / "yeah"].

Det. Michael Baumiller: Yeah, you know, that's life. That's all, brother. It is what it is. It's happened. There's no taking that back. They're good folks, though. All right? Now let's get to it. All right, man. I'm off. Okay.

Det. Melvin Smith: You all right, man? 'Cause [unclear: "I know it's warm in here" / "it's the newest wound here"].

Anthony Sowell: Oh, [unclear: "okay" / "I'm good"]. I don't know why I sweat.

Det. Melvin Smith: Yeah, some [unclear: "warm"] water might help you out. Do you think you're okay? So, obviously, everybody told you, you talked to how many people so far? Talked to [unclear: "these" / "the DC"] detectives. They told you what you're here for. Do you understand what you're here for?

Anthony Sowell: [inaudible]

Det. Melvin Smith: Do you understand where you are? You're in the [unclear: "police department" / "inclusive party" / "Department of Justice"], Justice Center. This is my partner, Detective Griffin. I'm Detective Smith with the homicide unit.

Anthony Sowell: Who was that? Oh, sex crimes.

Det. Michael Baumiller: That was the sex crimes unit.

Det. Melvin Smith: Okay. Okay. So, we've, I know we're bombarding you, and there's a lot of people coming at you and got you on [unclear: "edge" / "hands"], and I just want you to relax here, you know, and just have a conversation with us. Do you think you can handle that?

Anthony Sowell: Yep.

Det. Melvin Smith: Okay. I see you['re] [unclear: "smoking" / "a smoker"]. We got some smokes for you.

Anthony Sowell: Everybody been cool so far.

Det. Melvin Smith: Okay. Yeah. You know, that's how life is. Some people going to be good to you, and some people...

Anthony Sowell: That's how society is.

Det. Melvin Smith: Some people going to be cool.

Anthony Sowell: They got them out of here, so I don't mind.

Det. Melvin Smith: Some people going to be, they're not going to be able to get along with, you know. Hopefully you can get along with us. Okay? We're not pressing you against the wall. We're not going to accuse you of anything. You obviously know everything that we already know also. But I appeal to you, and, and I like to appeal to you, you know, to the, to the better side, to the good side of Anthony. And, and you obviously know, you seen the news in the last couple of days, or you just been walking around? Have you had to talk to any family members lately?

Anthony Sowell: No.

Det. Melvin Smith: Nobody?

Det. Lem Griffin: Just been walking around?

Det. Melvin Smith: We know you hadn't come back to the house, and I was just curious as to why you hadn't come back to the house.

Anthony Sowell: My house?

Det. Melvin Smith: Yeah.

Anthony Sowell: I'm hardly there. [unclear: "I work a lot."]

Det. Lem Griffin: You taking any medication? Any medication you got to have every day? [unclear: "How do you feel when you're sick?" / "Are you taking a little kissing at the house every day?"]

Anthony Sowell: [inaudible]

Det. Melvin Smith: What is your medication for?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Okay, I have medication" / "Okay, I got you"].

Det. Melvin Smith: What type of heart condition do you have?

Anthony Sowell: I got [a] pacemaker.

Det. Melvin Smith: Oh, you do? When did you get that?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: year; captions "2012", Whisper "It's about the sun"].

Det. Melvin Smith: And when did you come out of the service? I see you [were] in the Marine Corps.

Anthony Sowell: Yeah.

Det. Lem Griffin: You did a, did a re-enlistment, or what type of, what [unclear: "term" / "type"]? When did you come out?

Anthony Sowell: '85.

Det. Lem Griffin: '85. My hat's off to you, man. My hat's off to you. You got out with [an] [unclear: "honorable" / "dishonorable"] discharge. That's a lot. That's saying a lot.

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Thank you." / "I should have stayed in."]

Det. Lem Griffin: Well, you [unclear: "could" / "should have"] stay[ed] in the military, but [unclear: "that's" / "I'm"] still saying a lot. My hat's off to you, bro. I appreciate you going.

Det. Melvin Smith: What, what other, uh, medications are you taking, and for what?

Anthony Sowell: That's it. I don't know what they are.

Det. Melvin Smith: Did you have your, uh, did you have your heart medication with you? Is it in your bag or in your pocket? [unclear: "You do at the house?" / "Is it at the house?"]

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "I was" / "It was"].

Det. Lem Griffin: Okay. You don't know the name of it?

Anthony Sowell: I don't know. [unclear: "One of them" / "I know one is"] Plavix and, uh-huh, about five aspirin, and a beta blocker, and some [inaudible], and my doctor [unclear: "and all that" / "is all of that"].

Det. Melvin Smith: What's your doctor's name?

Anthony Sowell: Dr. [unclear: "Souther" / "Sullivan" / "Southern"]. Dr. [unclear: "Souther" / "Sullivan" / "Southern"].

Det. Lem Griffin: [unclear: "Souther" / "Sullivan"]?

Anthony Sowell: Yes.

Det. Lem Griffin: And where is he at?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "VA" / "Yeah"].

Det. Lem Griffin: Which one?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Wade Park" / "Lady Park"].

Det. Lem Griffin: [unclear: "Wade Park" / "Lady Park"] [unclear: "Medical Center" / "VA"]?

Anthony Sowell: Yes, sir. It's on my record. The nurse [unclear: "have" / "got"] my record.

Det. Lem Griffin: Okay. [unclear: "You said you had to have surgery?" / "But you have to have everything?"]

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Both of them" / "Most people"].

Det. Lem Griffin: [unclear: "Both of them?"] And that's for your pacemaker?

Anthony Sowell: It's for my heart.

Det. Lem Griffin: For your heart? Okay.

Det. Melvin Smith: Anthony, were you living by yourself at the house?

Anthony Sowell: Sometimes.

Det. Melvin Smith: Sometimes? Well, who else lives there with you?

Anthony Sowell: Well, don't nobody live with me now.

Det. Melvin Smith: Okay. Okay. How long have you been there by yourself?

Anthony Sowell: Uh, a year and a half.

Det. Melvin Smith: A year and a half? Okay, good for you. We thought there was a woman staying [unclear: "in your spare bedroom" / "there, with her step-mom"]. Who was she actually?

Anthony Sowell: My stepmom.

Det. Melvin Smith: And then where is she?

Anthony Sowell: She's with her family.

Det. Melvin Smith: Okay.

Anthony Sowell: I mean, her family. [unclear: "I didn't know her mom, to be honest. I didn't know the family." / "The first time I met her, I was excited about that."]

Det. Melvin Smith: Do you know where? We'd like to talk to her.

Anthony Sowell: Uh, on [unclear: "Scottsdale" / "Scott Terrace"]. [unclear: "I thought Scott Terrace."]

Det. Lem Griffin: What's her name?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Segerna" / "Sigourney" / "Cigar"].

Det. Melvin Smith: And it was [unclear: "Scottsdale" / "Scott Terrace"] you said?

Anthony Sowell: Right. Y'all [unclear: "can talk" / "talked"] to some of [unclear: "her" / "my"] family [inaudible].

Det. Melvin Smith: No, we haven't. No, no. I would tell you.

Anthony Sowell: Somebody, somebody [unclear: "you tell the name of the people" / "with their name in it"].

Det. Melvin Smith: [unclear: "We don't know their names."] No, no. We're, a lot of things we don't know. So, um...

Anthony Sowell: I, I don't know them. [unclear: "That's the other family that way" / "That's how I would have found them"].

Det. Melvin Smith: You don't know them? There may have been some people...

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "My phone."]

Det. Melvin Smith: ...that have talked to some of your family members, but we haven't. My partner and I haven't. So, some of the questions may seem a little redundant, 'cause you may have already answered them to someone else before. Uh, so you have to bear with us to a certain degree, because we, a lot of the knowledge we don't have. So, we, we're going to come to you and...

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "I just ain't like my phone number" / "I was going to say, like, what phone am I"]. I don't, I don't know about her. It's on my cell phone.

Det. Lem Griffin: Okay. Let me ask you this. What's your cell phone number? ---