Anthony Sowell Questioned by Cleveland Police, 2009: Clip 2, Home and Family

Name: Anthony Sowell Questioned by Cleveland Police, 2009: Clip 2, Home and Family
Uploaded: 2011-07-14
Duration: 5 min 44 s
Description: Asked who lived with him on Imperial Avenue, Anthony Sowell told detectives about his stepmother, his mother in hospital and where he slept, and said he spent most of his time with a friend or with his family.

Asked who lived with him on Imperial Avenue, Anthony Sowell told detectives about his stepmother, his mother in hospital and where he slept, and said he spent most of his time with a friend or with his family.

Subject: Anthony Sowell
Recorded: October 31, 2009
Runtime: 5:44

Content warning: Detectives question Sowell about a rape allegation; the case concerned the murders of eleven women whose remains were found at his house.

The Interview

This second clip of Anthony Sowell's police interview, as it was played to the jury in July 2011, runs on directly from the first. Sex crimes detectives were questioning him at the Cleveland Justice Center on October 31, 2009, the day of his arrest, about a woman's rape complaint. Here Detective Richard Durst asks where the woman lives and then turns to Sowell's own household: his address, how long he had lived there, and who lived with him. Sowell says he has lived on the street since 2006, with his stepmother, Segerna, who had had a kidney transplant and was mostly staying with her own mother. He says he spends most of his time with a friend or with his family.

Historical Context

Between 2007 and 2009 eleven women disappeared from Cleveland's east side. Their remains were recovered from Sowell's house at 12205 Imperial Avenue and its yard after police entered it on October 29, 2009: Tonia Carmichael, Nancy Cobbs, Tishana Culver, Crystal Dozier, Telacia Fortson, Amelda Hunter, Leshanda Long, Michelle Mason, Kim Smith, Diane Turner and Janice Webb. Sowell had pleaded guilty to attempted rape in 1990, served 15 years in prison and been released in 2005.

Circumstances of the Interview

Sowell was in custody. The detectives in this clip, Durst, Detective Michael Baumiller and Sergeant Joseph Rini, were still questioning him as a rape suspect; the bodies found in his house are not raised in this clip. The questions about who lived in the house and where he slept bore on who had access to it.

What the Interview Covers

Sowell describes the area where he says the complainant lived, near East 116th Street. He names his stepmother, Segerna Sowell, and his mother, Claudia Garrison, who he says is 86 and was recently in hospital, where he says he spent the night on the Tuesday before. He says his stepmother had not stayed at the house for over a year, that a girlfriend had once lived with him, and, in a passage where the audio is unclear, appears to say he did not sleep there much. The clip ends with a detective asking about women in his life, and Sowell saying he remembers the complainant making "a little threat".

What Makes the Recording Significant

Sowell did not testify at his trial. His police interview, played to the jury as the last of the prosecution's evidence, is the main record of him answering questions about the case. In this clip he places himself away from the house for much of the time.

Archival Importance

News 5 Cleveland posted the courtroom playback in several clips on July 14, 2011. The court reporter's text of the first part of this interview is published separately; this page adds the video and its sound, with a transcript made from the recording.

Important Caveats

What Sowell says about his household and his movements is his own account. YouTube provides no captions for this clip, so the transcript rests on a single machine pass of faint courtroom audio; many lines are marked unclear until a human listening check. The detectives are not named in this clip; they are identified from clip 1 and the court record.

Det. Richard Durst: [unclear: "You said you knew her" / "Can you say you knew it"] from the Mount Pleasant area?

Anthony Sowell: I think [unclear: "she stays on" / "you stayed on"], uh... [inaudible]

Det. Richard Durst: What did you say?

Anthony Sowell: It's [unclear: "off" / "all"] 116th, down [unclear: "5-6th"]. [inaudible]

Det. Michael Baumiller: [unclear: "Do you know that place?" / "I know that place"]

Anthony Sowell: You know, [unclear: "the biggest goal I've had is to stay" / "she stays"] down that way, that's all.

Det. Richard Durst: Oh, and where do you stay [unclear: "at, Anthony" / "in Denver"]?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Imperial" / "Denver"].

Det. Richard Durst: What's your address on [unclear: "Imperial" / "the period"]?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "12205" / "1-2-3rd"], uh...

Det. Richard Durst: How long have you lived there?

Anthony Sowell: Since 2000...

Det. Richard Durst: Since then?

Anthony Sowell: 2000, since 2006.

Det. Richard Durst: You live with anyone?

Anthony Sowell: Stepmother.

Det. Richard Durst: Wait, wait, stepmother? What's her name?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Segerna Sowell" / "Savannah Silver"].

Det. Richard Durst: How do you spell that?

Anthony Sowell: S-E-[inaudible].

Det. Richard Durst: Yeah, you know. [unclear: "Same last name as you?" / "Say a nice name to you"]

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Sowell" / "Silver"].

Det. Michael Baumiller: This woman [that] made this accusation, [unclear: "what was that, earlier this month" / "what was that one's earlier, the small friend"]?

Det. Richard Durst: Uh, at the end of September.

Det. Michael Baumiller: [unclear: "That's your stepmother" / "That's your stepmother's hair"]? [unclear: "Security's your hair?"]

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Segerna is my stepmother" / "Oh, so that is my stepmother"].

Det. Michael Baumiller: Stepmother? Was she [unclear: "home" / "a mom"]? Was she, like, you know...

Anthony Sowell: No, she's [unclear: "not" / "a mom"]. She had a transplant, so she [unclear: "was born to her"]... It was like a [unclear: "bit of a"]... Well, she stays...

Det. Michael Baumiller: [unclear: "Perches"]?

Anthony Sowell: No, uh... [inaudible]

Det. Michael Baumiller: [unclear: "No, mom..." / "I wish she had..."]

Anthony Sowell: She stays out with [unclear: "her" / "a"] mom, or she goes back [unclear: "for the funeral mother to play in" / "and forth between her mother and"] the hospital.

Det. Richard Durst: Do you know where your mom lives?

Anthony Sowell: Yeah. [unclear: "Scottsdale" / "Stop there"]. [unclear: "There's nothing on the street"]...

Det. Michael Baumiller: The street's [unclear: "Scottsdale or the city" / "in the middle of the street"]?

Anthony Sowell: Okay. [unclear: "But I don't know if that'll be real."]

Det. Michael Baumiller: Yeah, you [unclear: "don't mind" / "know"]...

Det. Richard Durst: Uh... She was either in the hospital or she stays with her mom, who lives on Scottsdale.

Anthony Sowell: Yeah, right. She lives downstairs.

Det. Michael Baumiller: [unclear: "What is she looking at?"]

Det. Richard Durst: She lives downstairs, too? What's that, first floor you'd say?

Anthony Sowell: First floor.

Det. Richard Durst: And where do you live?

Anthony Sowell: I live downstairs. [unclear: "I don't see it" / "and upstairs"].

Det. Richard Durst: So you live with Segerna?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "At one time" / "Then I sleep one time today"].

Det. Richard Durst: Okay, what about now?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "No" / "Now"].

Det. Richard Durst: Where did you sleep yesterday? On the first floor or the second floor?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "I wasn't there yesterday" / "On an area yesterday"].

Det. Richard Durst: [unclear: "You weren't there yesterday?" / "You went there yesterday?"] When was the last time you were there?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "I don't know" / "I'm probably there"]. [unclear: "I'm hardly there"]...

Det. Richard Durst: [unclear: "Hardly there any more?" / "I haven't been there any more"]

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "I'm in and out" / "I'm here now"]. I mostly spend most of my time [unclear: "over a friend of my house" / "a friend of my house"], [unclear: "or with" / "over"] my family. My mom was in the hospital [unclear: "last week, we were all" / "the last week we were gone"]. I spent one night in the hospital. I stayed all night. And that was Tuesday. [unclear: "Went Monday night, it was Tuesday morning" / "With Monday night in my stupid morning"].

Det. Michael Baumiller: And you were [unclear: "at the hospital or at the house" / "in the hospital or in the hospital"]?

Anthony Sowell: I was in the hospital.

Det. Richard Durst: Okay. And which hospital was that?

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "I don't think it was"]...

Det. Richard Durst: When you say your mother, you're talking about...

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "That's my real mother" / "She said my real mother"]. No, my real mother's in the hospital.

Det. Richard Durst: Okay, [unclear: "sweetheart"]. So Tuesday you were in the hospital. The clinic?

Anthony Sowell: The clinic.

Det. Richard Durst: Okay, [unclear: "all night" / "hold on"]. [unclear: "Did you go to the clinic?"]

Anthony Sowell: [inaudible; Whisper: "Join us for the morning. I'm on my H."]

Det. Richard Durst: But she's not there anymore.

Anthony Sowell: No, [unclear: "they moved her to" / "you moved to the"]... [unclear: "rehabilitation" / "your ability"].

Det. Richard Durst: Okay. And what's your mother's name?

Anthony Sowell: Claudia [inaudible] Garrison.

Det. Richard Durst: Garrison.

Anthony Sowell: [unclear: "Please don't bother her" / "Here's something you don't bother about"]. She's 86. [unclear: "She just had a stroke" / "And you said this guy is broke"].

Det. Richard Durst: And where is Claudia?

Anthony Sowell: She's... [unclear: "There's a..." / "with my sister"]

Det. Richard Durst: [unclear: "Who was it?"] Which is where?

Anthony Sowell: Oh, oh. Right down there. Right [unclear: "now, I'm able, I'm 130 and I'm able" / "there on Abell, 130th and Abell"]. I don't know [unclear: "what it's worth" / "the address"].

Det. Richard Durst: [unclear: "Should we go another way?" / "Should you..."] So you live with Segerna. But Segerna has a kidney transplant. Who else do you live with? [inaudible] Just you and her. No girlfriends?

Anthony Sowell: Well, she was living with me [unclear: "in my house" / "at one time"]. [unclear: "She was that one I'd say to type me in together" / "That's the one I said we ain't been together"], like maybe a year and a half.

Sgt. Joseph Rini: But [unclear: "it was" / "when was"] the last time Segerna was staying?

Anthony Sowell: I [unclear: "didn't know if I'd been" / "have no idea, it's been"] over a year. She had a transplant. She's real weak, so she needs [unclear: "25 years" / "24-hour care"]. So she stayed out with her mom. Her sister. Now, [unclear: "she was watching me down this way"]. That's my stepmother[unclear: "'s nephew"].

Det. Michael Baumiller: Has [unclear: "she" / "he"] been sleeping [unclear: "there"]?

Anthony Sowell: Oh, yeah.

Det. Michael Baumiller: But normally, up until recently, [unclear: "he" / "you"] stayed there? [unclear: "He" / "You"] slept there?

Anthony Sowell: Not a lot.

Det. Michael Baumiller: [unclear: "How long ago, my man?"] What about the ladies? [unclear: "I'm pretty good" / "You seem to do pretty good"] with the ladies. I mean, I'm trying to figure out, this girl saying that she took it...

Anthony Sowell: [inaudible] [It] might not be that girl. I remember she made a little threat [unclear: "as well" / "that's all"]. ---