"The Answer Is No": Paul Bernardo Questioned About Elizabeth Bain, 2007

Name: "The Answer Is No": Paul Bernardo Questioned About Elizabeth Bain, 2007
Uploaded: 2018-02-28
Duration: 3 min 30 s
Description: Asked by Toronto police whether he killed Elizabeth Bain, Paul Bernardo first argued about Karla Homolka and his own credibility, then said no.

Asked by Toronto police whether he killed Elizabeth Bain, Paul Bernardo first argued about Karla Homolka and his own credibility, then said no.

Subject: Paul Kenneth Bernardo
Recorded: June 7, 2007
Runtime: 3:30

Content warning: Concerns a man convicted of the rape and murder of two teenage girls, questioned about a young woman's disappearance.

The Interview

On June 7, 2007, two Toronto police officers, Detective Brad Hoover and Constable Darlene Coulis, interviewed Paul Bernardo at Kingston Penitentiary about Elizabeth Bain, a University of Toronto student who disappeared in June 1990. In this excerpt Hoover asks directly: "Did you kill Elizabeth Bain on June the 19th, 1990?" Bernardo calls it "a loaded question" and spends two minutes complaining that police believed Karla Homolka's version of their crimes, before saying "the answer to that is no". He then denies any part in her disappearance and says he does not remember whether he ever met her.

Historical Context

Elizabeth Bain disappeared from the University of Toronto's Scarborough campus on June 19, 1990. Her car was found three days later with a large bloodstain; her body has never been found. Her boyfriend, Robert Baltovich, was convicted of her murder in 1992. On his appeal in 2004 his lawyers named Bernardo, who had been the "Scarborough Rapist" in the same area from 1987 to 1990, as an alternative suspect, and the conviction was set aside that December. Bernardo had been convicted in 1995 of the murders of Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French.

Circumstances of the Interview

In 2006 Bernardo had asked, through his lawyer, to speak to police, and denied knowing Bain. The 2007 interview took place as Baltovich's retrial approached. Hoover told Bernardo it was not an interrogation and that his answers were voluntary. The video was intended as an exhibit at the retrial, but in April 2008 the Crown called no evidence and Baltovich was acquitted. On June 10, 2008, Justice David McCombs released the video to all media without restriction, over the Crown's objections.

What the Interview Covers

Bernardo argues that police never had Homolka take a polygraph, appears to name Inspector Vince Bevan, refers to "the Camaro" from the original investigation, and complains that police have said he lied. Hoover replies that he has checked information Bernardo gave him and will go through a timeline. Bernardo then says "the answer is no", refers to "the 800-pound gorilla in the room", his life sentence, and answers "No" when asked whether he had anything to do with her disappearance. Asked whether he knew her, he says "Not that I know of", and asked whether he ever met her, that he does not remember. Apart from the date, he says, he does not remember when he learned of her disappearance, but he recalls seeing something about it in newspapers in jail.

What Makes the Recording Significant

The recording is the police's own questioning of Bernardo about the Bain case, released by an Ontario court in a notable 2008 ruling on making exhibit video available online. Bernardo has never been charged in connection with Bain's disappearance, which remains unsolved.

Archival Importance

The case involved a wrongful conviction, years of appeals and a public alternative-suspect theory. This excerpt preserves Bernardo's direct answer to the question at the centre of it.

Important Caveats

Bernardo's statements are his own. He has never been charged in the Bain case, and the page must not suggest he was responsible. His remarks about Karla Homolka are his claims. The National Post excerpt is about three and a half minutes of a roughly 31-minute interview. Some of his answers are not clearly heard and are not quoted here. His reply to "Did you know Elizabeth Bain?" ("Not that I know of") is confirmed by CTV's 2008 report.

Detective Brad Hoover: Did you kill Elizabeth Bain on June the 19th, 1990?

Paul Bernardo: Well, it's a loaded question. I mean, are we going to go back and go through the time sequence of what happened in my life? I mean, I could just give a yes or no answer, but, you know, there's a lot of issues about that, right? You know, Karla's and my role, who did what, where, when. This is why I said to you guys, you know, go down there to get a polygraph, to see if she was telling the truth. Like, why didn't Bevan do it in the first place? I mean, he's polygraphing everyone over the Camaro. Why would he make a deal with someone and not give them a polygraph? It's [unclear: "incomprehensible" / "not incomprehensible"] to me, you know, because now I'm sitting, my file says her version, and it's a lie. You know what I mean?

Detective Brad Hoover: Yeah.

Paul Bernardo: You know, and I'm not making frivolous points here. I mean, and now you're asking me, after you, after you said Peel Regional said I'm lying about this, and then you're saying I'm lying about my [unclear: "profile"], you're saying I'm lying about if I'm [unclear: "better"] or not. Now you're saying, hey, did you kill this person? I mean, well, you['ve] [unclear: "said I'm lying here, here, here" / "seen a mine here, here, here"]. I could say no, I didn't. But, I mean, you already said I'm lying here with the [unclear: "PO" / "people"] you['re] saying.

Detective Brad Hoover: I'm not saying anything about who's lying. I'm simply...

Paul Bernardo: And I['ve] given you directions to go to find the truth, right?

Detective Brad Hoover: [unclear: "No, I've done that" / "And I've"]. And I have asked, and again, I've told you that, I've done investigations on information that you've told me. And as a result of that information, I've been able to verify, in my mind, [unclear: "where you told me the truth" / "breathe clubbing the truth"]. So if Peel Region is lying about you, or someone else is lying about you, I have no control over that.

Paul Bernardo: [unclear: "Or, no" / "or mill vehicles"], it goes right to credibility.

Detective Brad Hoover: Well, absolutely it does. And that's, I guess, the, the easy way that is to, if we can go through, [unclear: "we'll" / "you'll"] answer the questions. And yes, I hope to be able to go through some timeline to identify where you were, what you were doing, specifically, in relation to this, this case.

Paul Bernardo: Anyways, I know I'm giving you guys a hard time, being argumentative about certain things. But, I mean, really, I'm a human being, and you guys do all these things. I've got it. [unclear: "I'll try to truncate it a little bit more" / "it was all trying truncated"]. Anyways, the answer to that is no. But the 800-pound gorilla in the room is that's a life 25 sentence, you know. It really comes down to credibility, and not only credibility, but then again, timeline. I mean, between what Karla's and my roles were, respectively, and this and that. The answer is no to that question.

Detective Brad Hoover: Okay. Did you have anything to do with her disappearance?

Paul Bernardo: No.

Detective Brad Hoover: Did you know Elizabeth Bain?

Paul Bernardo: Not that I know of.

Detective Brad Hoover: Had you ever met her?

Paul Bernardo: I'm going to answer that with, I don't remember. [unclear: "Just if I did or I didn't"], I don't remember. [unclear: "But I know an ex-girlfriend trying to save my life, but I got saddled" / "I know an ex-girlfriend trying to say"]. [inaudible]

Detective Brad Hoover: You obviously are aware of her disappearance. Do you recall when you became aware of this?

Paul Bernardo: [unclear: "Best that I can recollect, this happens" / "Bestest I can recollect"] [inaudible]. The date, obviously, June the 19th, 1990, was the date. But, but, you know, other than that, I don't remember. But I remember in jail, I had newspapers after the fact, and I saw something about it. [recording ends] ---