"Almost Like a Picture Show": Dennis Rader on the Mendoza Tape, 2005

Name: "Almost Like a Picture Show": Dennis Rader on the Mendoza Tape, 2005
Uploaded: 2009-10-25
Duration: 3 min 15 s
Description: In excerpts from a jail evaluation recorded for his defence, Dennis Rader described rehearsing murders in his mind "almost like a picture show" and blamed a force he said "controls me".

In excerpts from a jail evaluation recorded for his defence, Dennis Rader described rehearsing murders in his mind "almost like a picture show" and blamed a force he said "controls me".

Subject: Dennis Lynn Rader
Recorded: February 25, 2005
Runtime: 3:15

Content warning: A serial killer describes stalking his victims, the "hit kit" he carried and his fantasies of killing; ten murders, including those of two children, are referred to.

The Interview

In the summer of 2005, while Dennis Rader awaited sentencing for the ten BTK murders, NBC's Dateline obtained a videotape of him being interviewed in jail by Dr. Robert Mendoza, a forensic psychologist hired by his defence team to assess his sanity. NBC aired this three-minute preview, apparently on August 12, 2005, the day of a two-hour Dateline broadcast on the case. Introduced by an NBC anchor and narrated by correspondent Edie Magnus, it includes several short excerpts of Rader speaking: "I am BTK," he says, "and I'm the guy they're after, 100%."

Historical Context

Between 1974 and 1991 the killer who named himself "BTK" ("bind, torture, kill") murdered ten people in and around Wichita, Kansas: Joseph and Julie Otero and their children Josephine and Joseph II (1974), Kathryn Bright (1974), Shirley Vian (1977), Nancy Fox (1977), Marine Hedge (1985), Vicki Wegerle (1986) and Dolores Davis (1991). He taunted police and the press with letters, then fell silent for years before writing again in 2004. Rader, a city compliance officer in Park City and a church council president, was arrested on February 25, 2005, and pleaded guilty to all ten murders on June 27, 2005.

Circumstances of the Interview

Mendoza's interview was part of a state-funded evaluation commissioned for Rader's defence. Segments aired on Dateline in August 2005, days before Rader's sentencing. In October 2005 Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline sued Mendoza and his colleague Tali Walters of Cambridge Forensic Consultants, accusing them of profiting from the videotape. In 2007 Mendoza agreed to pay $30,000 to settle the state's claims, without admitting wrongdoing; the money went to the victims' families.

What the Interview Covers

In the excerpts, Rader describes how a person became a "fantasy" that he would "loop" over in his mind at night, "almost like a picture show" that he wanted to "produce" and "direct". He describes a "stalking stage": looking up names and addresses at the library, calling his targets and driving past their homes. He lists the contents of what he called his "hit kit": plastic bags, rope, tape, a knife and a gun. Finally he blames what he called "Factor X", saying he thinks he may be "possessed with demons", that he was dropped on his head as a child, and that "it controls me ... it's like it's in the driver's seat."

What Makes the Recording Significant

Rader spoke at length in court, at his plea hearing and at sentencing, but very few recordings of him speaking outside the courtroom were broadcast in 2005. This preview preserves some of the excerpts from the Mendoza tape that NBC chose to air, and Rader's own description of the fantasies and planning behind the murders.

Archival Importance

The tape was at the centre of a dispute over the commercial use of a state-funded defence evaluation. The clip shows how that material reached the public, framed by network narration, before Rader was sentenced.

Important Caveats

This is a short broadcast preview, not the evaluation interview itself; Rader's words are heard only in edited excerpts, with NBC's narration between them. His claims about demons, "Factor X" and being dropped on his head are his own explanations, offered to a psychologist working for his defence. The upload's title, "Exclusive interview with BTK killer", names no source; the source has been identified from the content.

Anchor: The rare glimpse inside the mind of a serial murderer. The BTK killer terrorized Wichita, Kansas for three decades. Now, in a jailhouse interview, you'll hear directly from him how and why he committed these gruesome crimes. Here's Dateline NBC's Edie Magnus.

Narrator: BTK seemed uncatchable. Everyone wondered who he was, where he was, until just a few months ago, when a most unlikely man who'd lived among them all along, Dennis Rader, was arrested.

Dennis Rader: And I am BTK. And I'm the guy they're after, 100%.

Narrator: This interview, obtained by Dateline after it was done, was conducted by a Harvard-trained forensic psychologist, Robert Mendoza, who performs more than 100 evaluations for criminal and civil cases each year. He was hired by the defense team to assess Rader's sanity.

Dennis Rader: I got this fantasy. I started working out this fantasy in my mind. And once that [unclear: "potential, that person" / "person"] become a fantasy, I could just loop it over. I could lay in bed at night thinking about this person, the events, and how it's going to happen, and it become a real, almost like a picture show. You know, I wanted to go ahead and produce it and direct it and go through with it, no matter what the costs were and the consequences. It was going to happen one way or another.

Narrator: No one knows for sure why Rader had to kill to fulfill those fantasies. In this interview with the psychologist, Rader dismisses each victim as a project. He says he'd begin by stalking.

Dennis Rader: Stalking stage is when you start learning more about your victims, potential victims. Went to the library, looked up their names, their address, cross-referenced, and called them a couple of times. Drove by there whenever I could.

Narrator: And each time he struck, Rader said he was armed with what he calls his hit kit.

Interviewer: [unclear: "And what did that kit contain?" / "How many of you made a hit kit saying"] What?

Dennis Rader: Plastic bags, rope, tape, knife, gun. All those [unclear: "wouldn't be in the kit" / "would be the kids"], they'd be brought to have them in the house and [unclear: "gather them up" / "to get them up"].

Narrator: Tools that would come to define the work of BTK. The victims were often discovered bound with tape or rope tied in unusual knots. In his jailhouse interview, Rader blamed his murder spree on that mysterious force he has always claimed was way beyond his control, Factor X.

Dennis Rader: Something that's, I [unclear: "use it" / "used it"]. I actually think I'm maybe possessed with demons. I was dropped on my head when I was a kid. I talked to some theological Christian people, and some of those people are really strong. They actually think, well, the Bible says that there's demons within you, or can come into you. That's the only thing I can figure out. I have, you know, something drove me to do this. You know, the normal people just don't do this. You can't stop it. I can't stop it. It's just, it controls me. You know, it's like it's in the driver's seat.

Narrator: Ten innocent people murdered to satisfy the twisted needs of one selfish man.

Anchor: And you can see much more of this chilling interview tonight on Dateline at 8, 7 Central, right here on NBC. ---