"He Threatened to Kill You if You Said Anything": Loren Herzog in Sheriff's Custody, March 1999

Name: "He Threatened to Kill You if You Said Anything": Loren Herzog in Sheriff's Custody, March 1999
Uploaded: 2012-06-24
Duration: 5 min 45 s
Description: Two days after his arrest, Loren Herzog told a sheriff's detective that Wesley Shermantine had threatened to kill him, and answered "yes" when asked if he had been present at other criminal activity Shermantine was involved in.

Two days after his arrest, Loren Herzog told a sheriff's detective that Wesley Shermantine had threatened to kill him, and answered "yes" when asked if he had been present at other criminal activity Shermantine was involved in.

Subject: Loren Herzog
Recorded: March 19, 1999
Runtime: 5:45

Content warning: A detective questions Herzog about the stabbing of a young woman and about other killings.

The Interview

On March 17, 1999, San Joaquin County sheriff's detectives arrested Loren Herzog and his lifelong friend Wesley Shermantine and charged them with murder. This clip, dated two days later, comes from the hours of videotape made while Herzog was in custody. It opens with a visit from his wife, Christina, who talks about the charges and the coming arraignment. A detective then questions Herzog about a threat he says Shermantine made, and about the killing of 25-year-old Cyndi Vanderheiden. Herzog agrees that Shermantine threatened to kill him if he said anything or did not help him.

Historical Context

Herzog and Shermantine grew up together in Linden, California, in San Joaquin County. Cyndi Vanderheiden disappeared from nearby Clements on November 14, 1998. When DNA tests matched her blood to stains in Shermantine's car, both men were arrested. Herzog was questioned for more than 17 hours, most of it on videotape, and implicated Shermantine in a series of killings. Newspapers called the pair the "Speed Freak Killers" because of their methamphetamine use.

Circumstances of the Interview

The clip falls within the more than four days between Herzog's arrest and his arraignment. In 2004 a California appeals court found that three of his four confessions had been coerced, citing the length of the questioning, his fatigue, inadequate meals, threats and promises, the delay in bringing him to court, and the detectives ignoring his request to remain silent. In the clip his wife mentions an arraignment on "Monday"; March 19, 1999 was a Friday.

What the Interview Covers

The first three minutes are a quiet conversation between Herzog and his wife; much of it cannot be made out. A voice taken to be hers describes asking about the murder charge and being told it was a matter for the district attorney, and Herzog appears to speak of Shermantine involving him. The detective then asks about "the threatening part". Herzog says the threat was made "on the way home", that he "didn't really help" except to put her in the car, and estimates how far from the car the stabbing took place. Asked whether he was present at "some other criminal activity" that Shermantine was involved in, he answers "Yes". The detective specifies "homicide", and the clip ends as he presses for a yes or no.

What Makes the Recording Significant

The recording shows the account Herzog gave in custody: that Shermantine did the killing and that he went along out of fear. In October 2001 a jury convicted Herzog of three murders, those of Cyndi Vanderheiden, Paul Cavanaugh and Howard King, and he was sentenced to 78 years in prison. The appeals court later overturned those convictions on the ground that his confessions were coerced.

Archival Importance

The tapes were made public by The Record in 2012, after Herzog's suicide in January of that year and after Shermantine began giving maps of burial sites to a bounty hunter. In February 2012 searches in Calaveras County recovered remains including those of Cyndi Vanderheiden. The clip is a primary record of an interrogation that a court later found coercive.

Important Caveats

What Herzog says in the clip is his own account, given under questioning that the Court of Appeal held to be coercive; it shifts blame to Shermantine. Herzog was never convicted of Vanderheiden's murder after the appeal: in 2004 he pleaded guilty to her voluntary manslaughter and to being an accessory in other killings. The visit section is a private conversation recorded in custody and is largely unintelligible; its speaker attributions are provisional. How The Record obtained the tapes is not documented.

Speaker Not Identified: I know you did, but I know you care about it. Tell me. [inaudible]

Christina Herzog: I don't want to see you like this either, but, you know, I know you told me that [unclear: "I'm not the DA"]. [unclear: "That told you guys"] that he had to be arrested and [unclear: "charged at a murder" / "charged with murder"]. I said, but, I said, Wes is the one that did it. Loren did not do it. I said, why is the DA's office, you know... He said that's, he said that's out of his hands too, that's completely the DA's office doing. And he said, and I said, well, Monday [unclear: "I'm the arraignment" / "is the arraignment"], I said, is the judge or the DA, are they going to change that [unclear: "murder, draft that" / "murder charge"]? You know, what's going on? You know. And he said, that is completely up to the DA's office, and negotiate, negotiations between the DA's office and your lawyer. I don't know more. I'm working on it. I think they're supposed to [inaudible].

Speaker Not Identified: I've been talking to him about that before. Okay. Did you tell him yesterday?

Speaker Not Identified: I don't know, I don't know. I know. He has a [unclear: "Tim"] over there. They're always sitting there.

Speaker Not Identified: I know. I mean, he needs to be busted. I don't know. I think he's a [word masked in machine transcript]. I can't tell you what [inaudible].

Speaker Not Identified: I'm trying to get you out of here. I'm trying to get you out of here. I'm trying to help one [unclear: "of the other" / "or the other"], you know. I'm trying to help one [unclear: "of the other" / "or the other"].

Loren Herzog: He keeps trying to get me [unclear: "out of one of these"]. He has a [word masked in machine transcript] involved me too. It's like, oh, fuck. I said, I don't want to go anywhere else. I just want to go my own way. I said, he's back here. If he doesn't like that, [unclear: "he wants me to be in him"]. [unclear: "He wants me to be in him."] [inaudible]

Loren Herzog: I tried to help him.

Christina Herzog: I know.

Loren Herzog: Really, I mean, I tried to show him. I told him, I said, if I didn't work, [unclear: "if one of those body grabs, he would be going"]. I said, if he found him again, I'm going to have to tell him clearly.

Christina Herzog: Yeah.

Loren Herzog: I wouldn't have to be at home.

Christina Herzog: I know. [inaudible] But, you know, you know, you've been down there all your life. You're working, and you haven't been working for a while. You [unclear: "have been" / "haven't been"] fucking in trouble like he has in the past. [unclear: "He's been married the same person" / "You've been married to the same person"], you know. The amount of time he gets [unclear: "pre-kids"], you know, it's a bit, yeah, it makes quite a bit of a difference, from what I understand, so.

Detective: You didn't tell me about the threatening part.

Loren Herzog: Okay. We'll talk about that.

Detective: Okay. You need to tell me. What's the threatening part? What did he do?

Loren Herzog: I'm sorry.

Detective: Okay. What did he tell you?

Loren Herzog: He told me, if I didn't help him, [unclear: "he'd keep my mouth shut" / "and keep my mouth shut"], he'd [unclear: "fucking kill me" / "didn't fucking kill me"].

Detective: Okay. And that was when? At what point did he tell you that?

Loren Herzog: On the way home.

Detective: On the way home? Okay. [unclear: "And would you tell him that?" / "And which is coming"]

Loren Herzog: [unclear: "I didn't tell you anything."]

Detective: Okay. So he threatened to kill you if you said anything...

Loren Herzog: Or if [unclear: "he" / "I"] didn't help him.

Detective: And as far as help, what did you help him with?

Loren Herzog: I didn't really help him.

Detective: Did he ask you to help him with things?

Loren Herzog: [unclear: "Maybe he'll help put her in the car" / "Help him put her in the car"]. [unclear: "Maybe he'll help her put her in the car."] Put her in the car.

Detective: Approximately how many feet was Cyndi and him away from the car when the stabbing took place?

Loren Herzog: Ten, somewhere around ten, fifteen.

Detective: Ten, fifteen what?

Loren Herzog: Feet.

Detective: [unclear: "You said" / "He said"] it's dark out there. If it's dark, how could you see him [unclear: "slash" / "flash"]?

Loren Herzog: [unclear: "He didn't slash him up" / "Didn't splashing"].

Detective: Well, is there some light coming from somewhere?

Loren Herzog: [unclear: "He means" / "It was"] silhouettes above the ground. [unclear: "Light on the ground" / "Maya, hey pal"].

Detective: Let me ask you this. All right? All I need is a yes or a no. Were you present at some other criminal activity that Wes Shermantine was involved in? Yes or no? We don't have to get any details.

Loren Herzog: Yes.

Detective: Criminal activity... Well, criminal activity, yes. Homicide. Were you present? All you have to say is yes or no. That's all I need to know. No details. Yes or no. [silence]

Detective: Is that a yes?

Loren Herzog: [unclear: "Yeah"]

Detective: All right. [unclear: "We'll have that sooner."] [recording ends] ---