"Don't Kill Her, Man": Loren Herzog's Account to Detectives, March 17, 1999 (Part 1)

On the day of the arrests, a detective told Loren Herzog there was cause to arrest him. Herzog then described watching Wesley Shermantine rape and kill Cyndi Vanderheiden, and denied taking part.

Subject

Loren Herzog

Recorded

about March 17, 1999

Runtime

7:22

Content warning: Herzog describes the rape and killing of a 25-year-old woman, which he says he watched.

The Interview

This is part of a San Joaquin County Sheriff's Department interview-room video recorded on March 17, 1999, the day Loren Herzog and Wesley Shermantine were arrested in the disappearance of Cyndi Vanderheiden. A detective opens by telling Herzog that there is "more than sufficient enough cause" to arrest him, but that the district attorney has asked detectives to wait until the blood recovered from Shermantine's car is fully analyzed. He reminds Herzog that he has given several different statements. After a cut, Herzog gives his account of the night Vanderheiden died and then answers questions about it.

Historical Context

Herzog and Shermantine grew up together in Linden, California, in San Joaquin County. Cyndi Vanderheiden, 25, disappeared from nearby Clements on November 14, 1998. When DNA tests matched her blood to stains in Shermantine's car, both men were arrested on March 17, 1999. Herzog was questioned for more than 17 hours over the following days, most of it on videotape, and implicated Shermantine in a series of killings. Newspapers called the pair the "Speed Freak Killers" because of their methamphetamine use.

Circumstances of the Interview

The detective's words place this recording before the formal arrest that day. It belongs to the sequence of custodial interviews that a California appeals court reviewed in 2004, when it found that three of Herzog's four confessions had been coerced, citing the length of the questioning, his fatigue, inadequate meals, threats and promises, the delay of more than four days before his arraignment, and ignored attempts to remain silent. Which of his statements the court found coerced is not stated in the sources seen.

What the Interview Covers

Herzog says Vanderheiden wanted to go back to her car, that Shermantine began telling her to do "sexual acts" and grew "wilder and wilder," and that he told Shermantine, "Don't kill her, man. Take her back to her car." He says he backed away and "didn't know what to do," describes Shermantine holding her down, and says Shermantine then opened his trunk and tried to get him to help. He says his "mind was just gone." Asked whether he saw Shermantine kill her, he says "I watched it." He answers "No way" when asked whether he planned or took part in her killing. He says Vanderheiden called him "Slim" and said, "Slim, do something," and that he told her "don't test him," adding that he did not think he could take Shermantine in a fight. He says Shermantine told him "I'm not going to prison," and that he himself replied that he wished he could "turn the clock back."

What Makes the Recording Significant

This is Herzog's own account of the Vanderheiden killing, given on the day of the arrests, in which he admits being present and watching but puts the rape and killing on Shermantine. In October 2001 a jury convicted Herzog of three murders, including Vanderheiden's; the appeals court overturned those convictions in 2004, and he then pleaded guilty to her voluntary manslaughter. Shermantine was convicted of her murder in 2001 and sentenced to death.

Archival Importance

The Record published this and other interview clips in 2012, after Herzog's suicide in January of that year. Remains identified as Vanderheiden's were recovered in Calaveras County in February 2012. With part 2, the March 19 clip, the March 21 clip and the February 1 clip, and Shermantine's March 18 interview, it documents the questioning that produced the case against both men.

Important Caveats

Everything Herzog says here is his own account, given under questioning that the Court of Appeal later held to be coercive in part, and it shifts blame to Shermantine. Herzog was never convicted of Vanderheiden's murder after the appeal: in 2004 he pleaded guilty to her voluntary manslaughter. His voice is quiet and parts of his account are unclear in the machine texts; in particular, who wrapped the body and put it in the trunk (about 03:35) is not clear and must not be stated until checked by ear. The clip is edited. How The Record obtained the tapes is not documented.

Detective: There are a lot of things in this investigation that we have come to understand through statements and through physical evidence that we feel that there's more than sufficient enough cause to be able to arrest you. And we could arrest you right now.

Loren Herzog: Really?

Detective: Okay. All right. That's not a pretend statement. That's not a phony statement. The thing is, is that the district attorney has asked us to go ahead and wait until all the results of the blood that was recovered in Wes Shermantine's car to be totally analyzed. And we're abiding by that at this point in time because it was recommended. Okay. Cyndi's been missing for... Cyndi Vanderheiden has been missing for quite, quite some time. And you've spoken with Detective Shuffle [name as heard; not verified], you've spoken with a few other people and have provided several different statements, some of which we know to be true and some of it we know not to be true.

Loren Herzog: She [unclear: "kind of wanted to go back" / "now wanted to go back" (second machine pass)] to her car. She said that several times, you know. Well, it wasn't going that way. [unclear: "I'm still in a bad seat to say something when we get to the roof door" (Whisper) / "I still back just like f to the r" (captions) / "I'm still going back to you to say something to the ripped one" (second machine pass)]. [unclear: "Good" / "This isn't good" (second machine pass)]. Well, he started telling her to do stuff, you know. And it's kind of a back and forth argument kind of thing. And I mean, to do stuff as in, uh, sexual acts, I guess that's what you'd call it. And he was just getting wilder and wilder and wound up more and more. And I told him at one point, said, [unclear: "Wes" (second machine pass; captions "W")], don't kill her, man. Take her back to her car. [unclear: "When I got out of the car" (captions) / "My God, the car" (Whisper)], I started backing up. [unclear: "And he turned one time" (captions) / "He kind of looked at me one time" (second machine pass) / "And I kind of looked at him one time" (Whisper)] and I was gone. I didn't know what to do.

Loren Herzog: Well, I mean, it's hard to explain. I [unclear: "try, don't want to remember" / "don't want to know"], you know what I mean? But he was, you know, like on top, like holding her down, you know? And I guess [unclear: "must have been towards the end" (captions) / "I just missed him towards the end" (Whisper)], I can remember, [unclear: "just let them natural" (captions) / "He has his legs on that one" (Whisper) / "his head, his leg, and natural" (second machine pass)]. [unclear: "I mean" / "I didn't know"]. I can't believe that. [unclear: "I guess you D, you know" (captions) / "He hasn't even died, you know" (Whisper) / "I guess he's been dying, you know" (second machine pass)]. [unclear: "That's really just had to come natural" (captions) / "That's what I told him. He said he'd come back" (Whisper) / "I don't know what he said to come after" (second machine pass)]. That's what he told her.

Detective: [unclear: "That's why he called her?" (second machine pass) / "This way he called her?" (Whisper)]

Loren Herzog: Yeah. [inaudible] Oh, man.

Detective: And then what happened [unclear: "to her"]?

Loren Herzog: He [unclear: "got" / "had us"], started going around, and he opened his trunk. Started trying to get me to do this and that, and I [unclear: "wouldn't do it" / "would do it" (captions and second machine pass) / "wasn't good" (Whisper)]. I told him, no way. [unclear: "Good thing I was drunk and wrapped her up and put her in the trunk" (second machine pass) / "D blank, I was drunk and wrapped her up, put in the trunk" (captions) / "He doesn't think I was drunk or wrapped up and put her in the trunk" (Whisper)]. I almost don't even know where I was. I mean, I know I was there, but my mind was just gone. I was just sitting there and [unclear: "coming to a spillway" (Whisper) / "com with those felt like" (captions) / "coming to a spell like" (second machine pass)]. I wanted [unclear: "away from that" / "to wake him" / "to work with Pat"], and I couldn't believe what I just [unclear: "seen" / "saw"]. And, you know, it's too much.

Detective: The scenario that you just told us, is that the truth? Is that what actually happened?

Loren Herzog: Yeah, that's what happened.

Detective: Because I know you've told some different stories in the past. And you saw him kill her, is that correct?

Loren Herzog: [unclear: "Killing her"]. I, I didn't just... I watched it. I wasn't watching, I watched again, and I was like...

Detective: When you first met Cyndi, did you plan on killing her, or having her killed, or playing any part in her being killed?

Loren Herzog: No way.

Detective: You did not?

Loren Herzog: [unclear: "Okay"]. No way.

Detective: That's part of the truth, okay? You had no knowledge of what was going to happen, or did you?

Loren Herzog: No.

Detective: Okay. And even if you did, and if it's too late or too far into it, if you did not actively participate as you described earlier, then it's still the truth and the same story. If something happened and it's out of your control, then it's out of your control. But you need to explain that. Did she say anything to you?

Loren Herzog: Yeah, a couple times.

Detective: And what was that?

Loren Herzog: She used to call me Slim. She said, "Slim, do something." I said... I think I told her, "Don't, uh, don't test him."

Detective: So what, "Don't test"?

Loren Herzog: Don't test him.

Detective: Have you ever tried to fight him yourself?

Loren Herzog: Yeah. [unclear: "When I was in kindergarten" / "Was in kindergarten"].

Detective: But how about now? Do you think you could take him?

Loren Herzog: [unclear: "No" (captions) / "Yeah" (Whisper)]. That's my problem, I guess, 'cause I don't think I can take [unclear: "him"].

Detective: Okay. She tried to bargain with you, more or less?

Loren Herzog: Kind of a, you know, "Please let me go," and, you know. I don't know if it was a try and talk, maybe she just had calmed down to try to talk to him. I don't know if she was trying to calm him down or not.

Detective: What was his reaction?

Loren Herzog: [unclear: "Was"] I guess it wasn't trying to calm him down, it was... And then she was... and then she started screaming again. She was talking calm, though, for a minute, then she started screaming again.

Detective: When he said... So what's the story? What did you tell him?

Loren Herzog: I, I don't think I gave him a reply. I don't remember giving him a reply.

Detective: When he asked you, or he told you, "I'm not going to prison," did he just say that, or did you ask him, "Why, why'd you kill her?"

Loren Herzog: I guess he... I didn't ask him that. He said it. He just said it. "I'm not going to prison." [unclear: "Little bit told on me" (captions) / "You look f****** good, it's all on me" (Whisper)]. My reply, I think, was to his, that [unclear: "you don't" / "he didn't" (second machine pass)] want to see me for a while, was, I wish I could turn the clock back. I said, I wish I could turn the clock back, or turn the time back. [recording ends] ---