"I've Never Killed Anybody": Douglas Clark on Death Row at San Quentin, About 1995

Name: "I've Never Killed Anybody": Douglas Clark on Death Row at San Quentin, About 1995
Uploaded: 2021-01-22
Duration: 50 min 48 s
Description: Shackled on San Quentin's death row, Douglas Clark spent fifty minutes blaming Carol Bundy and the LAPD for the six murders he was condemned for, and insisted he had never killed anyone.

Shackled on San Quentin's death row, Douglas Clark spent fifty minutes blaming Carol Bundy and the LAPD for the six murders he was condemned for, and insisted he had never killed anyone.

Subject: Douglas Clark
Recorded: about 1995
Runtime: 50:48

Content warning: Discusses the murders and decapitation of young women, the sexual abuse of an 11-year-old girl, and sexual violence, in graphic terms.

The Interview

In this recording Douglas Clark, condemned in 1983 for the "Sunset Strip" murders, sits shackled in an interview room on death row at San Quentin. The camera runs from before the interview begins: Clark complains about the chains, the lighting and the time the Department of Corrections allows him, and has his visitors sign a form. Asked to introduce himself, he says: "I'm Douglas Clark. I've been on death row for 13 years." For the next three-quarters of an hour he sets out his case that he is innocent and that Carol Bundy, with her lover Jack Murray, committed the murders.

Historical Context

Between June and August 1980, young women and girls were shot and killed in the Los Angeles area, several of them picked up on or near Sunset Boulevard. Exxie Wilson's body was found in Studio City without its head, which was later found in a wooden box. On August 11, 1980, Carol Bundy, who shared a home with Clark, told police that Clark was the killer; days earlier she had killed John Robert "Jack" Murray, her former lover, and cut off his head. Clark was arrested the same day. In January 1983 a Los Angeles jury convicted him of six first-degree murders, of Marnette Comer, Gina Marano, Cynthia Chandler, Karen Jones, Exxie Wilson and an unidentified woman, and on March 16, 1983, he was sentenced to death. Called as a witness by the defence and granted immunity, Bundy testified at the trial that Clark was the killer; in May 1983 she pleaded guilty to two murders. She died in prison in 2003.

Circumstances of the Interview

The interviewer and the production are not identified in the upload. The content dates the interview to about 1995: Clark says he has been on death row for 13 years, refers to New York's new death penalty law and to the O.J. Simpson case as current, and names James Gomez as director of the California Department of Corrections. Clark speaks like an advocate, refers to a paperback about Ted Bundy that he has with him, and addresses "your viewers" directly. He says he took over parts of his own defence at trial.

What the Interview Covers

Clark claims that Carol Bundy copied the murders from a paperback about Ted Bundy, matching dates, a decapitation and the story of an anonymous call to police, and that she and Murray killed the women in Murray's van. He claims an alibi for Murray's murder. He attacks the LAPD detectives, the coroner and his trial judge by name, and says the police had the clues to stop the killings by June 20, 1980. He talks about his letters with Veronica Compton, the would-be "copycat" of the Hillside Strangler, and an article of his published in the UK magazine Headpress. He ends on the death penalty, prison conditions and his health, and says "there are a whole bunch of people I hope are looking over their shoulder" when he gets out, while adding that he would kill nobody.

What Makes the Recording Significant

Few filmed interviews with Clark have been found, and at fifty minutes this one is unusually long. It is one of the longest recorded statements found of the defence he maintained until his death: that he was framed by Carol Bundy. Every claim he makes about her guilt, the evidence and the police is his own; the jury rejected his account, and the California Supreme Court upheld his six murder convictions and death sentences in 1992.

Archival Importance

Clark died in October 2023, aged 75, still a condemned prisoner of San Quentin, never having admitted the murders. The recording preserves, in his own voice, the case he made to the outside world, including his own account of his trial. It also shows how prison interviews were set up at San Quentin in the mid-1990s, from the release forms to the shackles.

Important Caveats

Clark's statements that he is innocent, that Carol Bundy and Jack Murray killed the women, and that the police and the courts acted dishonestly or incompetently, are his claims. He was convicted of six murders and the convictions were affirmed. Carol Bundy was also deeply involved, by her own admission and in the view of the prosecution; her part does not clear Clark. He makes serious allegations against named detectives, a coroner, a prosecutor, a judge and other people; these are not verified. The source of the footage and the interviewer are not established, and the date is inferred from what is said.

Prison Officer: Hello, how are you? We're here? Oh, you got to sign a silly form first.

Douglas Clark: Yeah, we got to chain everybody up. I want that camera as best as possible to avoid Gomez's little sick [unclear: "game of having shackles" / "gang average shackles"]. Okay, yeah, they say that every time, too.

Douglas Clark: Okay, you need to, you put your own name here, and the media would be... What do you call yourselves here? [unclear: "Chris" / "Here, Chris"]. You're Chris, you're filling this top shit. I'm not going to sit here chained up and try to print that crap. Okay.

Douglas Clark: I want it specifically clear. Gomez said director's rules, SHU unit. That means segregated housing unit. Level four. That's what I'm housed under. That's what Carol Bundy's housed under. She gets 12 interviews in a quarter without blinking an eye. She gets six hours. She gets out [unclear: "counted" / "of count"]. She gets to walk around out in the mainline. Anything to make her look good. She's the government rat lying bitch. And here Gomez says, "Oh yeah, it's going to be fair and equal." You get one and a half hours once every three months. That's real fair. Damn serial killer wannabe Gomez is what he is.

Douglas Clark: I wanted to show... Why the hell is it so dark in here? Every time they set this up, it's different. I really get tired of this bullshit by Gomez.

Prison Officer: Okay, can you manage to sign that [unclear: "push"] and put your number there, too?

Douglas Clark: Yeah, I have to manage, aren't I? Where?

Prison Officer: Right here. All right. Okay, I want you to print your name there. And I'll sign up and you'll go on your file, okay?

Douglas Clark: All right. Thank you.

Interviewer: Thank you. [unclear: "Take the date and I'll be where it's from, God."]

Douglas Clark: The thing is, for the last several years, the death penalty, death row program has been a political issue, obviously. You saw, I don't know if you're aware, the governor in New York just bit the bullet. He got a new governor because of the death penalty. And it's the same thing here. They can't afford to have the death row inmates look human. So they've been constantly restricting and removing rights and privileges and that kind of thing.

Interviewer: Because we got into the, um, the inmates' prison [unclear: "variable"].

Douglas Clark: Exactly. Make them look like animals. The public and the Nazis, you know, don't want the people outside Auschwitz knowing what's going on there. It's the same goddamn thing here. You got a director of prisons literally caught suppressing favorable media access to Elmer Pratt. What the hell is the janitor running the prison doing, involving himself in media contacts, favorable or otherwise?

Douglas Clark: But do you realize, not long ago Geraldo Rivera was in the same room and he had Charlie Manson. Now you don't get much more dangerous, supposedly, according to the media, than Charlie. He's dancing around with no chains, he's walking around talking and having a good time. Yeah, when it's a death row inmate, oh, it's politics, got to chain him, got to make him look crazy and weird, and just the whole politics of it. You don't even see any media about the five women they got on death row in California, because, you know why? The Barbara Graham story came out of California's gas chamber. Have you ever heard of Barbara Graham?

Interviewer: Yes. *I Want to Live!*

Douglas Clark: Exactly. Lindsay Wagner made a very good remake of that film, and you don't hear about that because the public doesn't have a stomach for it.

Douglas Clark: Well, we've got concrete, beyond doubt proof that Carol Bundy, who's locked up in another one of the director's prisons, she's on level four, she's on segregated housing, the same as I am, same rules apply, she's getting all the visits she wants, as long as she wants: six hours, eight hours, no problem, walking around, no shackles, civilian clothing. Yet when the same rules apply to me, all of a sudden it's, "Oh, you got to be in prison garb." You heard them, they tried to get me to take the sweater off and wear the prison blue shirt. Never had to before. Didn't have to do it on the Sally Jessy Raphael show just a few months ago. But oh no, they don't want to have anybody mistake the fact that this isn't a chained-up, locked-up animal you're talking to. "Don't listen to him, don't listen to him."

Douglas Clark: It's bullshit. We've got the proof Carol Bundy copied Ted Bundy's crimes. The LAPD detective Orozco says he sees no similarities between that case and this case, yet the similarities are astounding. I sent you just a brief listing of them, I believe. You got them, Judge? Just a brief listing.

Interviewer: Tell me about those.

Douglas Clark: That's just one topic. I want to list the topics that I wanted to discuss, that that lying sack of shit Gomez said we could discuss, we would have time, we'll have equal access, we can have multiple visits if we want in a quarter, because Carol Bundy's getting [them] under the same rules. Director's rule, that's what it is. Yet I get one, one and a half hour. She gets a dozen, up to six hours long, telling the government's side of the story.

Douglas Clark: We need to cover the copycat of the Ted Bundy case by Carol Bundy, who was writing to the guy on death row. She idolized him: the dates of the murders, the style of the murders, the decapitation murder, where the head was left, entire scripted case, right out of this book that I can't reach. Somebody trot up here and hand me that brief deal there. We have to discuss the lethal incompetence of Judge Lance Ito's wife.

Interviewer: When we get into that, can I just ask you to remember, I want you to more or less introduce yourself, and then get into it.

Douglas Clark: I assume you're going to cut and paste.

Interviewer: [unclear: "No, but" / "That's what I mean"], we need you to say, "Look, you know, I'm here on death row."

Douglas Clark: Okay. I'm Douglas Clark. I've been on death row for 13 years, been involved in this case since Carol Bundy accused me of her crimes, which were a copycat of this book. Since 1980, August 11th. I was 32 when I was arrested, a happy-go-lucky bachelor chasing skirts in LA, having a good time. I shared a condominium with a homicidal butch lesbian. She's a sadistic lesbian serial killer. It's not a novelty. There've been somewhere around five lesbian serial killers in the United States in the last 15 years. She's just one of them.

Douglas Clark: She copycatted the Ted Bundy case. She killed her partner because they had had a falling out. We're not quite sure why, but on tape to a writer, Mark MacNamara, she has stated that all of her reasons, prior stated reasons for killing Jack Murray, are false. She's taken the reason she killed him to her grave. We know the reason, we believe. The reason was they were out not only molesting an 11-year-old girl in his van, they admit all that, everybody knows that, but they were killing girls in that van. And if you've read the Head Press article, there's a three-inch chunk of scalp with blonde hair attached found in the van.

Douglas Clark: Okay, we know who killed these girls. Jack Murray and Carol Bundy killed these girls. She murdered him, she admits that, alone. She admits she decapitated him, stabbed him 26 times in the back or so, chopped off his head and took his head away. Oh, and slashed off his buttocks for good measure. She committed this crime while she was, she shot him the first time, first of two shots, she says. Well, she had her tongue in his anus, called analingus.

Douglas Clark: These two claim, she claims, these two had no relationship after January of 1980, claims I was her lover after January of 1980. But we have her and the 11-year-old girl, who testified about it, in his van having three-way sex in August, August 1st and 2nd. We have Carol with her tongue in his anus and shooting him in the head and cutting his head off August 4th. Yet they're not even related, they're no relationship, no friendship. We have letters from her that the widow gave up to the police saying she wanted him to be her lord and master.

Douglas Clark: Well, come time when they're not getting along, for whatever reason it was, she whacked him in the same van they murdered the girls, most of the girls, in. Some of the girls were killed in her cars as well. Blood evidence proved that. She could not testify or gain a deal for her life back when she was caught for his murder by testifying against him. You cannot, in America, testify against a dead man. It just doesn't work. So she was caught for his murder, and that's an interesting sidebar we have to get into.

Douglas Clark: I was at home, and everybody admits it, the DA admits it, everybody admits it. I was at home in my bed. A go-go girl was in Carol's bed that was staying at the condo at the time. The go-go girl had an epileptic seizure in the middle of the night. Woke up, bit her tongue, blood running down her face. I woke up and called the paramedics. The paramedics in America bring the cops with them. The cops show up. Carol isn't around. Nobody knows where Carol is. There was my accidental alibi for the murder she was framing me for, of Jack Murray himself.

Douglas Clark: So when that fell apart, the cops came to get her on the 10th of August to question her about it. They were coming to arrest her for that murder on August 11th. That's all proved fact, documented, nobody argues with it. They were coming to arrest her for the murder, decapitation, butchery of her lover, John Murray. On August 11th, in the morning, she beat him to the punch and confessed she was with Doug Clark, the serial murder of the Sunset Slayer case. Carol Bundy is doing double life on murder charges for murders she could not frame me for: Jack Murray's, and Jane Doe 28, Cathy.

Douglas Clark: The rest of the murders are all scripted right here in page 1 to 34 of this book by Bantam. A little cheap supermarket special that came out right after Ted Bundy was arrested. Winn and Merrill are the authors. Carol wrote us and told us to get this book: "You'll find it very interesting." We have that letter. It's in court. We got the book. We read it. The dates are the same. June 1st, Georgann Hawkins, Brenda Ball: June 1st, Ted Bundy murders her. I don't have this stuff handy because it's all been tampered with by the goddamn mailroom here. But June 1st, Ted Bundy murders Brenda Ball. June 1st, Carol Bundy says Marnette Comer died. It was actually May 31st, the night of May 31st, it appears. She lied about the date to match the book.

Douglas Clark: June 11th, the next murder in the book, Ted Bundy murders Georgann Hawkins. Next murder in this case, Carol says they tried to shoo away one girl that was standing with another girl, to kill one. What half-wit killer drives up in broad daylight, noon on Sunset, she says, or whatever, shoos away a witness to the vehicle and the occupants of the car, picks up the other girl and kills her? You don't try to do that. The reason she tried to claim they were shooing away one girl and only wanted one murder on June 11th, it's because the book only called for one murder.

Douglas Clark: But the next murder is a double murder. Does she say they tried to shoo away the second girl then? No. She claims they went to Hollywood, picked up Exxie Wilson, drove her all the way over the Hollywood Hills to Ventura, killed her, dropped off her body, decapitated it, took the head away, drove all the way back to Hollywood, over the hills on a two-lane little road, drive all the way over to Hollywood again, pick up her friend, murder her, Karen Jones, drive her body all the way over to NBC Studios, Warner Brothers lots, around in there, drop her body off. Mind you, going further from Hollywood towards the Burbank apartment that Carol had rented, she drives all the way back to Hollywood again to hunt for a third girl, she said, but couldn't find her.

Douglas Clark: Where do we find this story? Kind of right in here. Only we find the truth in the Ted book. We find Carol Bundy doing the impossible. The times of the phone calls, the shots, the screams, and the tires, and the dogs barking, à la O.J. Simpson case, proved that it could not have happened, that these two girls were both singly picked up and a third attempt made in this case. They had to be picked up together, taken over the hill, killed, and dropped. But we couldn't understand any of why any of this was happening or how it was happening until we read the book.

Douglas Clark: Ted Bundy went to Lake Sammamish, picked up one girl, broad daylight, took her away, murdered her and decapitated her, took her head away. That's Denise, Janice Ott. It's either Ott or Naslund. Janice Ott and Denise Naslund died that day. He picked them up one at a time at the park. He drove them away, decapitated one of them, which linked up to Exxie Wilson's decapitation in this case. Only one decapitation of a girl in this case, only one in the book. So he picks them up one at a time, takes them away and murders them, and goes back for a third, right here in the book. But he fails.

Douglas Clark: But what he doesn't fail to do is give him his name, Ted, and give him a description, by visual witnesses seeing it, of his car, a VW. The headlines become the Ted VW case. Carol can't show them the car, the van or the vehicle, whatever she's using, it's too risky. She can't give them the accurate name necessarily. So she calls police on June, July, on June, June 14th, I'm sorry, without my data here it's a little difficult. June 14th, coinciding right after the, right as this book is saying that these events are starting to unfold in the book, she calls police. We have a tape recording of the call by the police. She gives "John" and "red Plymouth", "Ted" and "beige VW". Coincidence?

Douglas Clark: That it's suddenly, well, it's not so much coincidence when you look at page 34. Page 34, according to the book, I don't know what real name the woman's using, the book says Ted's girlfriend, named Melanie, is calling the police saying she thinks her lover might be the killer and she's scared. Guess what we have on June 14th? Carol Bundy calling police: "I think my lover is the killer and I'm scared, and he drives a VW and his name's Ted, and he drives a red Plymouth and his name's John." Right in the same spot in the case.

Douglas Clark: Did Carol Bundy have a relationship with Ted? Yes. She wrote to him while he was on death row. She didn't want to admit it, but we busted her, because the sheriff's were illegally copying her mail, and thank God for illegalities.

Interviewer: Her name was Carol Boone, wasn't it, at one time? Carol Boone. Can you just tell me about that?

Douglas Clark: We're going to finish this one segment, because it's vital, because that ties in the double murder Carol Bundy told police. We'll get right back to that. On this triple murder, decapitation, it's a double plus an attempt, the facts prove that she could not have gone back to Hollywood to make this attempt for a third. But then you stop to think: why would the killer go back to Hollywood to attempt to fail? To match the book. Why attempt a failed kidnap? If you're not going to succeed, why bother? Just say you did it.

Douglas Clark: So that got documented, and then we wondered why, on August 11th, Carol Bundy said that they were driving around in the Valley with Exxie Wilson's severed head in a wooden casket that she bought, her own volition. Her idea to cut the girls' heads off, she said on tape. She says it was her idea to cut heads off, but there's only one cut off, other than Jack's, and it matches the book. She's driving around, she says, in the Valley with the killer. She says it's me, we say it's Jack. Whoever it is, she's driving around in the Valley with a human head in a wooden box. Why? She says, "We were looking for the location of a prior murder of a girl, a hooker, to drop the head at the scene."

Douglas Clark: Where do we find that? Ted Bundy dropped the head of Denise Naslund at the scene of a prior murder. The cops found too many heads, not enough bodies, too many bodies, not enough heads, right here in the script. What are the coincidences of this? The same victim, chronologically, is decapitated. The same victim's head taken away. The same victim, she says she was trying to find the murder scene of a prior victim. Same as the book. This is a Ted Bundy copycat murder case, anybody that says otherwise. There's hundreds of these examples in this book.

Douglas Clark: Jack Murray died the same day Carol Valenzuela died in the book. Carol talks about a massacre in a Mexican bar she was staging. Ted Bundy escaped from jail in Colorado, ran to Florida, committed a mass murder in a boarding house. Chi Omega, committed his mass murder there. The only mass murder he committed. The rest were serial murders. There's a difference. He killed a 12-year-old girl in Florida. He got electrocuted for that one. Carol's talking about the 11-year-old girl. She knows she's 11, and she's calling her a "delicious little 12-year-old" on tape, on police tape. She knows she's 11. Why is she calling her 12? She's a future victim.

Douglas Clark: It gets worse. I mean, Carol Bundy was in jail talking to police. She tells police, "I called a friend of mine in the Northwest, in Oregon, a guy named Dick Geiss." She says she called this guy and she asked him what should she do. She was very scared, her lover was this killer. And Dick Geiss, she says, told her, "Run away to Florida." Dick Geiss says that's bullshit. Not only did he not say run away, he would have never thought to say run to Florida. It made no sense to him why she would say that.

Douglas Clark: Why do you think she said that? Ted Bundy called a friend of his in the Northwest, said, if, while he was in jail and all that, called up from Colorado, says, "What state would really kill me if I did this kind of stuff in that state?" Mind you, he only killed in death penalty states. The person told him, and he agrees he told him, "Well, probably Florida." Ted promptly escaped, went to Florida, committed mass murder and a murder of a 12-year-old, got executed. He got his execution death wish in Florida. But Carol Bundy didn't call this guy and ask him that. He didn't tell her that. Why'd she say that? Why'd she tell police this, on tape? Because it's right here in her script. This is a scripted serial murder case.

Douglas Clark: And she's still killing. Dorothea Montalvo Puente, back in prison, was in prison before she committed her boarding house murders in Sacramento. She's a friend of Carol Bundy's. They were in the same [unclear: "PTU"] unit down at Frontera. They were buddies. Carol Bundy's MO included using a lidocaine that was found in her nightstand to inject and kill patients. It's a common drug that's been used by nurses to kill patients in serial murder cases around the country. Two or three different cases.

Interviewer: Tell me [unclear: "about executives" / "what actually"], because I mean, you've been blamed for something here...

Douglas Clark: Yeah, which she's obviously done. Carol's done. There's no doubt Carol's involved. And even if you read the Louise Farr book on this, her prosecutor in her case, now Judge Ronald S. Cohen, ladies and gentlemen, says in no uncertain terms, he has always, from day one when he handled her case as prosecutor, he has always believed she was involved from the very beginning, that she was involved in every murder. And she says it was her idea to cut the heads off, her idea to do this, her idea to buy the box, her idea all the way down the line. Her guns, her cars, all the way down the line, it's her doing. He admits it. But did he admit that when he was prosecuting me, and claiming she didn't know anything about it until she saw Exxie Wilson's head on the sink? That's another bullshit story.

Douglas Clark: I want to ask your viewers: let's say you've called the police, you're scared, you think your lover might be the serial killer that he's telling you, supposedly, he is. Okay, let's say that's true for a minute. You come home one day and see a severed human head of a girl sitting on a sink. Bingo. "Oh, now I know there really are murders occurring." She claims, she claims this for about six months. Then she decides no, she's going to change it. She's going to take Cathy's murder on August 7th and she's going to backtrack that to June 20th. Problem with that is it precedes Exxie Wilson's murder, decapitation. The head can't be on a sink if the girl's running around in Arkansas, can it?

Douglas Clark: So she says, "Well, I got a problem here." So now Cathy's going to be the first murder she knows about. So she's got to change cars too. Cathy's murdered in a two-door floor-shift automobile. We have tape recordings of Carol describing that car. Everybody knows it happened in the Datsun, two-door, floor shift, bucket seats. Carol keeps describing it that way. But the Datsun was broken down on June 20th, when she's moving this murder to be. So not only is she now claiming, "Oh gee, I kind of just forgot. I kind of just forgot to pick up Manny's at the store, and I forgot to mention the first real murder I knew about was this girl being shot in my presence," supposedly. Knocked the head on the sink. Just a little slip of memory, I guess. Yet she had to change cars, because the Datsun's broken down. So now it happened in a bench-seat, four-door, big station wagon with a column shift.

Interviewer: How did she do it? Tell me what happened. Take me through it.

Douglas Clark: [unclear: "I am here." / "The reason I am here."] You want to know the bottom-line reason I'm here? Because Peggy York, Lance Ito's wife, she's now a captain in the LAPD, murdered five people by her blatant incompetence. Her and six or seven other downtown robbery homicide cops fucked this case up. Can I say fuck on TV?

Interviewer: Not really.

Douglas Clark: Screwed this case up. Okay. She screwed this case up. We have proved it. Students, high school kids, look at the LAPD chronological clue packages in this case, starting at the first they knew of these crimes, June 12th. They solved this murder by June 20th, before anybody else died. It's a simple case. If you had time, if James Gomez, director of the CDC, wasn't playing bullshit games, we would be able to document that for you in detail. We can't. They say, "Oh, this is fair," but I get an hour and a half, Carol Bundy gets six hours any time she damn well pleases. But the point is, those cops on the arrest date, on tape, admitted, "God, guys, we screwed up."

Interviewer: Go back to Exxie Wilson. Tell me how she did Exxie Wilson, I mean, about the head. What's the focus about all that?

Douglas Clark: All I know is they've got pictures of a severed head. We know they were picked up together. I'll tell you why. It links in with the shooting of the boyfriend in the van, the decapitation of that. The coroner, Carpenter, I think his name's James Carpenter, senile old drunk. *Hard Copy* did a big exposé on the guy being totally incompetent. He said a guy committed suicide, and he had a big huge office desk smashing his skull, his clothes were all ripped off, his credit cards were gone and were being used somewhere else in town. So sorry, but the expert, it's not our fault that the LA coroner's office hires these drunken rejects. We have to use the expert, the only one that had access to these bodies.

Douglas Clark: Now, if you're the coroner's office and you have a bunch of murders, two of them are decapitated in what was labeled by Choi and Carpenter as a very precise, professional manner, starting in the same place, ending in the same place, with the same kind of blade. Carpenter said by the same hand, most likely. Now, if you have that set of circumstances, wouldn't you think it'd be a good idea to have those two coroners look at each other's bodies, to compare? Not LA coroners. These morons never even compared.

Douglas Clark: So when Carpenter went on the stand, the coroner that handled one of the decapitations, I wanted to ask him about comparing the photographs for the other. And the ex-DA trial judge, Judge Torres, says, "No, you're not going to do any defense in this case. Sit down, shut up." He wouldn't let me do it. He says, "Yeah, you can bring that out on defense." Carpenter stumbles out of the courtroom, promptly dies. So now I've got a dead witness that looked half dead when he was testifying anyway. He's a brain-damaged idiot, an alcoholic, but he's the best we've got, because that's what the city and county of LA hire. We didn't even get to compare the two decapitations.

Douglas Clark: We didn't get to hire our own pathologist, because Judge Torres said, "No, there's going to be no defense in this case. I heard Carol Bundy's testimony on tape to the police, and I'm not going to let you present a defense." That's exactly what he said in the record. He said he read Carol Bundy's confession, and there's no one in the world was killed in that van but Jack Murray. I asked him how he knew that. He said, because Carol Bundy testified to that fact. Carol Bundy hadn't even been in the courtroom. The idiot judge, ex-DA, Judge Torres, said right on record that he was relying, to bar the entire defense in this case, he was relying on Carol Bundy's sworn testimony with cross-examination, which hadn't even occurred yet. All he'd heard was a self-serving statement to the police.

Douglas Clark: So, Exxie Wilson's decapitation, what do we know about that? We know that Carol's lying about picking up two girls one at a time, going back for a third. It's physically impossible. You could have done that with a Learjet. So we know that the head wasn't in any apartment sitting on a sink at the date she said it was, because three days before she said she saw it sitting on a sink, it was in the alley, being discovered by a citizen who found it in the box that she bought.

Douglas Clark: But again, that all brings back to the LAPD screwing up. They had the witness who sold the box to Carol Bundy. Now, get this clear. The witness said she had like Coke-bottle glasses. She was fat. She was wearing a black wig. She's wearing a short summer top, shorts, Bermuda shorts, and black gloves. Paid cash, bought the box. On her day off, Carol Bundy did this. We all know it. The cops know it. Everybody knows it. They knew she bought the guns. She's the only person that bought two guns. She's one of 10 people on a gun purchase list. They checked all the males and threw the list away, tossed it in a file cabinet. Yet the only buyer in the middle of this crime circle, Carol Bundy, bought two, had called police and talked about her lover and her. Maybe she bought one for each, right?

Douglas Clark: You would at least call her up and compare the voice of the person on the gun purchase list. You've got her home phone number, her work phone number, home address, Social Security number, driver's license number, photo. What else do you need, except a signed confession from the broad? So you call her up and you say, "We've got this Carol..." We've got this anonymous caller we know is involved in these crimes, calling on June 14th. We call up the gun-buyer female, and the voices are very unique and they're identical. So what do we do, LAPD? We put a tail on the broad and find out who our lover is. We find out what vehicle they're using. We see them tooling around in a van. We stop the van on a pretense. Cops do it all the time: "Oh, your taillight was out." Bang! Search the van, find the guns, find the blood, find the clothing of victims. Probably videotapes of... Remember, Carol Bundy bought him a video camera so they could videotape and stuff, but there's no videos. Where are the videos?

Douglas Clark: So what do you find in a van? Who knows? LAPD didn't bother doing it. They were too busy running off to Arkansas. Two cops took plane trips to Arkansas to ask the mother what Exxie Wilson was like as a nine-year-old child. What the hell has that got to do with a serial murder case of a prostitute who arrived in California June 12th, was murdered June 23rd, 22nd, the night of the 22nd, morning of June 23rd? What has what she was like as a child got to do with anything? Why did two cops at government expense fly to Arkansas? And in the Farr book, the most important thing they did in Arkansas was try to find a beer in a dry county. That's exactly what Orozco said.

Douglas Clark: That man committed murder. The clues to solve this case were right on his desk. He's back there trying to... He could have picked up the goddamn telephone. This is the 19, 1900s. This is the 20th century. The telephone's been invented, Leroy. Pick up the phone and ask the mother what she was like. Don't send two cops. No wonder our government and our budgets are shot to hell. You got LAPD sending two morons off to Arkansas to interview the mother while the case is going on. More murders are occurring, and it's half-wit downtown robbery homicide's finest. They are the best homicide cops in LAPD, and they're off in Arkansas trying to detect where to find a beer, trying to talk to the mother. They could have talked to her, fifteen-dollar phone call, and murders are occurring.

Douglas Clark: Well, when I was arrested, they knew goddamn well that Exxie Wilson died needlessly. They had the solution in file before she died. They owe Mrs. Zelma [unclear: "Aminson" / "Amundsen" / "Aymond's"], Exxie's mother, a big apology. They owe Karen Jones's mother a big apology. They murdered her daughter just as much as Carol Bundy did, the lethal incompetence in this case. And did they know they committed lethal incompetence? Yes. Right on tape, similar to this, but audio. Gary Broda, detective, one of the elite, sergeant, he thought the interview with Carol was over. He assumed his buddies turned off the tape recorder. They're chit-chatting, and while they're arranging for a female cop to take her away, she's joking with him. You know, I'll give you the goddamn tape. LAPD won't give it to you, I'll bet you money on that one. They gave Carol... Let me finish that quickly, or it's meaningless.

Douglas Clark: Jack Murray, a noted Australian, came over here. Sexual sadist. We've got a litany of women he, he lured them into his van for sex, very charming and nice, but as soon as he was ready, he would turn them over and [unclear: "rape them anally" / "rape the main link" / "rape the mentally"]. He bit a girl so bad on the back it left a scar. Damn, bit another woman's nipple off. He jammed a broken beer bottle into another woman's, not into her anus, into her, in her hip. He is a noted sexual sadist. He brutalized his wife. He brutalized people. He was a thief. He was a child molester. And the LAPD says, well, he was a nice guy.

Douglas Clark: He was in it for kicks. If you listen to this song, "Queen of Hearts" by Juice Newton, she didn't write it. "Queen of Hearts" is one of Carol's favorites, and it talks about the relationship. It's hard to love him because she knows he's only in it for kicks. He's in it for sex kicks. He's a sadist. The Louise Farr book spelled it out. Yet nobody's ever asked, what about this guy in Australia? We know nothing. We don't even know if he was a draft dodger, or in the equivalent of the CIA as an assassin, as he used to claim he was. He used to brag about being a killer. We don't know anything about him, because nobody's ever done their job and checked. LAPD never checked. DA never checked. But this guy was in it for kicks.

Douglas Clark: Carol Bundy is an actual multiple personality. There have been shrinks that have looked at her and noticed this. She's a sadistic, butch lesbian. She's a submissive, [unclear: "to be in Indian domination" / "to be indian domination"], all that, heterosexual. Two of her personalities. It just blew cops away. They don't hire cops that know anything about homosexuals in LA. They're so homophobic. Chief Gates used to rant in the newspapers how homosexuals are just these evil, perverted people, and he didn't want them in his department. But that also leads to a department that doesn't have a clue about the psychological makeup of a lesbian, especially an S&M lesbian. This woman's lesbianism goes back to the night her father raped her, started her out on this path, when she was 11 years old. She said her father, the night her mother died, raped her. Her life history in that book, by Farr, is a VICAP. That's FBI talk. What is VICAP? Does anybody know, Judge?

Douglas Clark: By the way, I usually have an agreement. We got all flustered and you didn't sign it, so I guess you can do whatever you want to do. I usually have an agreement for a $2,500 assurance bond that I will get a full copy of this tape sent to my lawyer. I'll just give it to you. You're not obligated by it, because I screwed up, I didn't have you sign it ahead of time, but I feel you're acting in good faith. It's got the attorney's address on it, and just when you get time, shoot him a copy. We need it because otherwise the government uses outtakes, which you might take and use on TV, and then they don't fit in context. They say, "Well, oh, he knew Exxie Wilson was killed June 22nd." Everybody knows that, but they try to claim my knowledge of the case, from the case files I got while in jail, indicates I'm guilty. Now, yeah, I'm [unclear: "tapping at it" / "tapping"].

Interviewer: Can you talk about the similarities between, you mentioned just now about the Hillside Stranglings, and [unclear: "Kenneth Bianchi and Angelo" / "can it be a conundrum"], obviously that's...

Douglas Clark: Well, actually, that doesn't have anything to do with this case directly at that point.

Interviewer: What we were talking about, you mentioned that there were an awful lot of similarities between this case and that case.

Douglas Clark: Not just similarities, but striking similarities. The only decapitated victim, remember, is identical of the girls. Jack was decapitated not because it called for it in the book. Carol Valenzuela in the book was not decapitated on August 4th. However, Carol didn't want to leave the bullets there and link his murder to the girls' murder. Okay, the point being, Leroy Orozco, still working downtown robbery homicide, the elite of the LAPD that they claim is handling this OJ case so well, this moron actually stated in the book about this case, to Louise Farr, that he believed that this case, on June 12th, on his discovery of the first two discovered victims, not the first two victims, they were the second and third victim, but they were the first two discovered, and discovered together, he thought there might be a copycat working, he said. Copycatting the Hillside Strangler case.

Douglas Clark: Because across the freeway, a couple hundred, some odd yards, wherever, there had been a body found involved in the Hillside Strangler case, which was real big news in LA. Based on that one fact, this guy says, and I agree, it's something to consider, that there might be a copycat working. His reply, to explain why he doesn't understand the June 1st duplicated date, June 11th duplicated date, the decapitation, the drop, that wanted to drop the head where another body had been dropped, all those similarities that go on and on and on, there's hundreds and thousands of them, and Carol Bundy writing to Ted Bundy, he says he doesn't see any hint that would make him even begin to investigate a copycat factor in this case, because this case is in LA. Ted Bundy murdered those girls in Seattle. That's his reply.

Douglas Clark: If you start copycatting Ted Bundy's crimes today in Wichita, Kansas, you're immune, as far as Leroy is concerned, of being discovered to be a copycat killer, because you're not operating in Seattle. Now, if you haven't heard anything more brain-damaged than that, it's just astounding. Yet he thought there might be a copycat because the bodies were close in proximity to where a Hillside case victim had been dropped off. Rightly so, you got to look into those factors.

Douglas Clark: They still swear up and down. The DA, Judge Cohen, now judge, used to be a DA, he says he believed Carol was involved all along. Carol's lied about that all the way through. No matter who her partner is, she's involved, he says. He presented a totally false case to court, didn't bother him a bit. Now he's a judge. Deukmejian, the author of the death penalty, the guy who wrote it, his entire career, made that scumbag DA a judge.

Interviewer: While we're on that, just to finish, wrap this bit up. We can't begin to cover everything in depth, in any detail.

Interviewer: To wrap this up, to wrap this up: you wrote a brilliant article in the Head Press magazine.

Douglas Clark: I don't consider it brilliant. I dashed it off. I didn't even edit it. That's a fact. I didn't think it would get printed. I didn't write it for Head Press.

Interviewer: You were very much on the side of Veronica Wallace Compton in that article. You felt that she'd been [unclear: "inside" / "set up"].

Douglas Clark: Oh, on the Veronica Compton thing. Let me clear up what I was talking about then. I dashed off an article to the *Times* of London, and instead of printing it, which I didn't care if they did or not, it was a commentary about the possibility of England, you know, the right wing, bringing back the death penalty. Death penalty's fun for a lot of people, makes them feel better, makes them look elsewhere while, you know, you're not solving crimes. This state's a good example of that. But I wrote this article saying, just be aware, public, that you do get guys like Ted Bundy. You do get guys like Ed Kemper. You do get these people, a lot of them fixated, fascinated on the death penalty.

Douglas Clark: So I wrote that article. They didn't run it. They had a guy named William Cash, out of Los Angeles, write a hit piece saying, why do they let those prisoners talk to the media? Obviously the director of Corrections agrees with him. So that hit piece caused Dave Slater, publisher of Head Press, to contact me and ask if he could see what article this guy was assassinating by pen in the paper. I sent it to him. He found it noteworthy and he decided to print it. That's the article. As I said, it wasn't really well written, because I didn't think that the *Times* of London would print anything against the death penalty idea, frankly.

Douglas Clark: So later I penned an article, with photographs attached, I guess, about the Hillside Strangler copycat attempt by Veronica. I happened, of course, [to correspond] with Veronica because Carol introduced us. Carol Bundy was in jail next to her, Carol Bundy and her. Veronica's early letters, before she'd had any communication with me, spelled out in great detail what Carol was telling her, things Veronica could not have gotten from any other source. Carol was lulled to think that she and Veronica Compton, copycat, you know, with Ken Bianchi, were kindred spirits. They were falsely accusing Buono. She's falsely accusing me, Carol. So they were chatting about their cases, and there were details in these letters, which we have, spelling out the similarities of the cases and the different things, and Carol Bundy adopting stories from Veronica, and they were talking back and forth and masturbating.

Douglas Clark: So this led to me writing to Veronica. I was pro per, trying to fight to get my case in court. I cannot, in America... you can buy witnesses. You can go out and buy all the lying witnesses you want if you work for the DA's office and the police department. That's no problem. If I want you to lie and say Judge [unclear: "Nam" / "Namm"] is a dope dealer, all I've got to do is have you in a vice. If I've got you facing prison time for anything, I'll get you to say anything, usually. And they had these rat cases lined up galore, that Carol's trying to get a deal, Veronica's trying to get a deal. They're writing to us, and I'm saying, how am I going to keep Veronica willing to come to court and face the wrath of the authorities? I can't give her her freedom. I'm not the government. I can't get her to tell the truth in court at great risk to herself.

Douglas Clark: She did get screwed in that case, but she was facing great peril to ever getting out of prison. She's still in prison, I understand, because if she testifies for the defense in a case, the government has the power just to say you're staying, and staying behind bars, once they've got her there. So I can't buy witnesses like the government could, so I'm trying to keep her happy. And my attorney knew about it. He was handling the letters back and forth. She wanted to talk sex, we talked sex. She wanted to talk these daydreams about what she wanted to do when she gets out. She told us still, though, she told us the truth about what Carol Bundy had been telling her. She had no other source for it.

Douglas Clark: Well, later we found out she was a totally incredible witness. She was lying her ass off in the Hillside case. Whether she's telling the truth now, it was pointless. You couldn't bring in an otherwise incredible witness to tell the truth, if the jury would suspect you were, you know, suborning perjury. But that's how that whole thing got involved. I wrote the article about Veronica because, if you look at the facts in the Veronica Compton case, she supposedly walked into a motel room, in a nutshell. She walked into a motel room with a girl to do some cocaine. The girl's sweater gets off after her hands are tied behind her back, pullover's taken off. Now, my hands are shackled. Try to get this sweater off. You see my point?

Douglas Clark: What's the girl's sweater doing off with her hands tied behind her back, unless she's doing what Veronica was into? Bondage and domination, bisexual, a little bit dominant. That's what was going on in that room. And when Veronica started playing games with her a little rougher than she wanted to, she said stop. No charges were filed for weeks. Veronica went back to LA. Then the LAPD got ahold of it and said, "Well, you were trying to kill this girl." The girl says she went in there dressed. Veronica said, "Reach behind you and feel my baby." She had a pad on, pretending to be pregnant. "Reach behind you and feel the baby." She grabbed her, tied her up, and then took her sweater off. That's a neat trick if you can do it.

Douglas Clark: So the whole case is basically a bunch of bullshit. She was in a small town. Ken Bianchi had already murdered two girls there. There was no way a girlfriend of Ken Bianchi's is going to get a fair trial. She's still doing more time than most single-case murderers up there. She's done more time than most second-degree murderers at the time in Washington State. It's all political. I'm not for her. I'm not against her. She even denied meeting me, denied ever knowing that I was in jail. We've got, what, a thousand pages of her screwball letters addressed to me in county jail, with all the details of Carol and the case and everything else. She's incredible.

Interviewer: Now, I promised you I'd give you a shot at your complaint against the prison system.

Douglas Clark: Ah, screw the complaints against the prison system.

Interviewer: Can I just ask you one thing? [unclear: "No."] You're an innocent man, Doug. I mean, that's why I'm here.

Douglas Clark: Gomez has a track record.

Interviewer: Can I just ask you, what's it like? You tell me how you feel inside your mind, and how you feel being treated like you are at the moment, shackled.

Douglas Clark: [unclear: "Pissed off." / "This time."] Have you ever been in the military?

Interviewer: I was in the Royal Marines, yeah.

Douglas Clark: Good. How about you, Judge?

Second Visitor: [unclear: "I was a ranger." / "Just arrange it."]

Douglas Clark: Have you ever been in a foxhole under fire? Tell me what it's like to be [in a foxhole under fire]. I'm telling you. You ever been in a foxhole under fire, or anywhere?

Second Visitor: [unclear: "Right after the combat ended."]

Douglas Clark: Yeah, but you were in, you faced the potential of harm's way. And this, in a way, also ties into a deterrent effect of the death penalty topic. You're where you are. The military says go to Anchorage. The military sends you to Nome. The military sends you to the outreaches of India. Were you in... Oh, you're in American service. I'm sorry, I'm switching continents on you. You're in Royal Marines. Where you go, what you do, and your life expectancy is basically in the hands of others. You're going to do your best, and your buddies are going to do their best, and you're going to work as a unit, and you do what you can. But basically, that mortar shell coming in doesn't have eyes, ears, or an asshole, and it's going to kill whoever it lands on. That's where I am today.

Douglas Clark: I've got a bad heart, no medical care for it. My eyes are going bad, my hair's falling out, my teeth got big gaps in them. I wasn't a bad-looking 32-year-old guy when I came into this. The stress can wreck you. But at the same time, the staff, the warden, and the director intentionally, lately, have been making things as miserable as they possibly can for all prisoners, in all states, in all prisons. Because the public's got this, "Let's stick those guys with a sharp stick in the cage. Let's be meaner and meaner," because they're down on crime, big fear frenzy.

Douglas Clark: And what I've seen, honest to God, here in San Quentin: when I was in C-section, I saw them bring down a non-condemned man, shackled in leg irons, took him out to the front gate, unshackled him and threw him out. The guards were afraid of this guy, but they weren't afraid to, "Time's up, buddy, you're out." They threw him out the front gate, but they took the shackles off right out here. And he promptly went out and committed multiple murder in Oakland. Murdered two people, because he'd been driven nuts. He was a nonviolent prisoner when he first started into this bullshit.

Douglas Clark: The American public wants flogging. They passed a flogging law back East. They want graffiti artists paddled. Yeah, right. I want to see the sheriff that's got the guts to paddle some of these big, buff, gang-banging Crips members, 17 years old: "Hey, bend over, black boy, I'm going to swat you with this stick." Yeah, right. I want to see the sheriff that's got the balls to do that.

Interviewer: What's your sentence?

Douglas Clark: What's that? [unclear: "Kind of what most sentences."] Oh, mine is six murder cases, capital sentences on each. Six capital sentences. That's it, that's all. It's pending right now. Yeah, they reversed that other bullshit case.

Interviewer: Yeah, I want to ask you that question again, and I want you to say, "I've been sentenced to death in the gas chamber."

Douglas Clark: What is it? Oh, okay. [unclear: "Discuss, basically."] And I don't even think about that, though. I mean, that's the look. Okay, but I'll talk about the death penalty if you want, but I'm not going to do it in that stage.

Interviewer: Go ahead, go ahead, make your, make your intro. [unclear: "Director's told me to"] Make your intro. I just want you to tell me what your sentences are, and then, "I've been sentenced to death." [unclear: "Negative."] That's what I want you to tell.

Douglas Clark: Okay. Well, the sentences actually are six sentences to the gas chamber, or lethal injection, I guess, now. They've changed that because they're concerned that the gas chamber might be cruel and unusual punishment. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But I find it kind of ironic that, you know, any mortal man that's scared of his own immortality would dare pass a law like Deukmejian did, and say, "Oh, we're going to have a death penalty." Buddy, if you weren't born with a death penalty, you better start looking for a cross to mount yourself on and end up in heaven on the right hand of God, because the left hand is taken. This is bullshit. It's just scratching the itch for the public.

Douglas Clark: Dying by execution, dying by getting hit by a bus, dying because you trusted Carol Bundy, or dying because you're Carol Bundy's sadistic lover, doesn't matter, doesn't matter at all. I've outlived Gary Broda, the rotten lying son of a bitch that admitted on tape he knew his job was in peril. He knew he had to frame Clark, because if it was anybody other than Clark, his career was over. He admitted that on tape when he lied to Carol Bundy, during that post... I tried to get to it before... during the end of their interview, he started lying to her about covering up the fact that they blundered the case.

Douglas Clark: Everybody's dying. We're all dying. You're dying. I'm dying. I've outlived the coroner, I've outlived the ballistics expert, I've outlived the DA. And here I sit. I'll be out. And I want to make you a statement that's probably going to make Judge [unclear: "Namm" / "Nam"] think maybe I've gone a little too far. But there are a lot of people out there, and they know who they are, and they had damn well better hope that this innocent man that they put behind bars, in the worst conditions possible in the state of California, hasn't been, quote, rehabilitated, end quote, the way a whole bunch of other prisoners under these conditions have been rehabilitated. Because when this innocent man, I've never killed anybody, when I get out, there are a whole bunch of people I hope are looking over their shoulder. I'm not going to kill anybody. But I damn sure want them wondering if their rehabilitative process worked for me the way it worked for a whole bunch of these other serial killers that were in prison, got out, went out, and committed their crime. Including a guard here.

Douglas Clark: They had a guard. There's another reason they don't like me, Tip Kindel and this Crittendon character here. [unclear: "Not only talking about this" / "I don't like me talking about this"], but I want to run this down to you for deterrent. You tell your public about this. A guard in North Segregation, death row, called the Shelf. Constantly coming over: "Hey, Clark, hey, Bittaker, hey, Bonin, hey, you," trying to talk to guys that were accused, or guilty or not, of serial murders, specifically murders of women, usually.

Douglas Clark: He left here one night after a graveyard shift, on his last day of work, he's being transferred to the prison at Susanville. In uniform, with his name tag and his badge and his beard and his distinctive looks, in his van, he drove downtown over here and picked up a hooker, pulled a knife on her, beat her, raped her, packed her up. Can't remember the name of the hill. Mount Tam, I think it was. He was taking her to, to kill her. He wasn't going to leave a witness with his name tag and his badge and ID. He was going to take her up there and kill her, just like the guys he'd guarded that he was so idolizing. And these scumbags, the attorney general, the governor, the director, cut him a deal. He's out now. He's on the street. Why? They didn't want that dirty linen. And to prove that this doesn't deter, it even makes nutcases go off. You've got a [recording ends]. ---