"Sir, I Have Never Killed Anybody": Dorothea Puente's Police Interview, November 11, 1988
On the day police dug up the first remains in her yard, Dorothea Puente told Detective John Cabrera that her missing tenant would turn up, that she had seen him that weekend, and that she had never killed anybody.
- Subject
- Dorothea Puente
- Recorded
- about November 11, 1988
- Runtime
- 47:43
Content warning: Concerns the deaths of boarding-house tenants and the discovery of human remains buried in a yard; the detective describes the remains.
The Interview
On November 11, 1988, Sacramento police dug in the yard of Dorothea Puente's boarding house at 1426 F Street, with her permission, and found human remains. That day Detective John Cabrera of the Sacramento Police Department questioned her on video. Puente, then 59, gave her name and birth year, explained her tenancy of the house, and answered questions about her missing tenant Alvaro "Bert" Montoya, other tenants, and the digging and concrete work in the yard. She denied knowing anything about the body, said she believed Montoya would get in touch with her, and told the detective, "Sir, I have never killed anybody."
Historical Context
Puente rented rooms to elderly, mentally ill and disabled tenants and cashed their benefit cheques. She had a record: in 1982 she was sent to prison for grand theft, after being accused of drugging and robbing people, and she was released in September 1985 (she gives the date herself in this interview). In 1988 a social worker reported that Bert Montoya, a tenant, had disappeared, and police came to the house. Police eventually recovered seven bodies from the yard. Puente was charged with nine murders. In August 1993 a jury convicted her of three (Benjamin Fink, Leona Carpenter and Dorothy Miller) and deadlocked on the other six, including Montoya's. She was sentenced to life in prison without parole and died in custody on March 27, 2011.
Circumstances of the Interview
The interview took place on the day of the first discovery and before Puente was a charged suspect. Cabrera tells her that her account of Montoya's whereabouts conflicts with what the social worker and two tenants, John Sharp and Mervin "John" McCauley, had told police, and that Sharp had said she asked him to lie. At the end the detective arranges for her to be taken back to the house by taxi. Within hours of the discovery she slipped away from the police; she was arrested in Los Angeles on November 16, 1988.
What the Interview Covers
Cabrera begins with routine questions: how long she had lived at the house, who owned it (she says her nephew, Ricardo Ordorica), and her married names. He then turns to Montoya, saying that his disappearance is "very suspicious" and that the stories do not match. Puente says she saw Montoya that weekend, offers to have her phone tapped so police can hear him call, and suggests a contractor dig up the yard to prove "there's nobody there". Cabrera questions her closely about a trench and freshly laid concrete in front of the shed, newly planted trees and lime in the soil. He tells her he heard a year earlier that she was "killing people and burying them" in the backyard, and suggests that she, or someone else in the house, is responsible. She denies it throughout, saying she had nothing to hide and did not want to go back to prison. Near the end she agrees to more digging, including under the concrete.
What Makes the Recording Significant
The recording shows Puente in the hours after the first remains were found and before she fled, denying, as she did for the rest of her life, that she had killed anyone. As the detective tells her on tape, her account of Montoya's whereabouts was already contradicted by other witnesses. The video was introduced by the prosecution as an exhibit at her trial.
Archival Importance
The provenance is unusually complete: the exhibit number, court case number and archive collection are all recorded, and the Center for Sacramento History has released the trial exhibits, including the full Exhibit 577 with interviews of other witnesses, to the public.
Important Caveats
Puente's statements are her own account: her denials, her claim to have seen Montoya that weekend and her explanations of the digging were rejected by the investigation. The detective's suggestions about other people in the house, including a tenant, her niece and a man named Jose, are questions and suspicions, not findings. No YouTube captions exist and the transcript rests on a single machine pass; quote only lines not marked unclear. The upload is an edit of a longer exhibit.
Detective John Cabrera: You got a water?
Dorothea Puente: No, it's okay.
Unidentified: Yeah, how'd you know?
Detective John Cabrera: Cabrera.
Dorothea Puente: I forgot what your name was before, because you're...
Detective John Cabrera: Oh, yeah, this is the day they [unclear: "signed up" / "signed the armistice"]. Veterans Day.
Dorothea Puente: Oh, this is the 11th [unclear: "round" / "month"], the 11th day, the 11th [unclear: "night" / "hour"].
Detective John Cabrera: Uh-huh. Okay, your...
Dorothea Puente: D-O-R-O-T-H-E-A. P-U-E-N-T-E.
Detective John Cabrera: What age?
Dorothea Puente: I'll be [unclear: "60 in January" / "16th January"].
Detective John Cabrera: Date of birth?
Dorothea Puente: 1929.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, Dorothy, the first question is, how long have you actually lived at that residence?
Dorothea Puente: I think I moved there in 1978, but I was in prison for... I mean, I was incarcerated from May the 19th...
Detective John Cabrera: 1978?
Dorothea Puente: No, '82, until September the 9th of 1985.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, so you actually started living there in 1978, and you lived there until 1982, until May when you were sent away, and then you got out in September 1985, and you've lived there ever since.
Dorothea Puente: Right.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: I was sent to prison in September of 1982... August the 23rd, excuse me. August the 23rd, no?
Detective John Cabrera: August 1982, August the 23rd.
Dorothea Puente: Well, I was incarcerated from May the 19th on.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, so from... so from 1978 to 1982, you lived there. And was there... do you remember who lived there before you?
Dorothea Puente: No. I don't...
Detective John Cabrera: You don't remember?
Dorothea Puente: No. Well, I've only had the downstairs for a year.
Detective John Cabrera: Who lived down there?
Dorothea Puente: Well, I mean, I don't have the downstairs, but I [unclear: "collect" / "clapped"] the rent for my nephew.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: He lived there before.
Detective John Cabrera: What's his name?
Dorothea Puente: Ricardo. Ordorica. [unclear: "O-R-D-O-R-I-C-A" / "O-R-D-O-R-I-C-H"].
Detective John Cabrera: Does he live here in Sacramento?
Dorothea Puente: Yes. I don't remember the [unclear: "end" / "address"].
Detective John Cabrera: How old is he?
Dorothea Puente: About 50. Forty-eight, something like that.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, approximately. He's in Sacramento, too, right?
Dorothea Puente: Yes.
Detective John Cabrera: He's the owner of the property.
Dorothea Puente: Right.
Detective John Cabrera: And you leased the property.
Dorothea Puente: Right. Well, I paid monthly rent, you know. We never signed an agreement.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: But they kept... they rented the place out while I was gone, but the utilities stayed in my name.
Detective John Cabrera: So the utilities of the property are in your name?
Dorothea Puente: Uh-huh.
Detective John Cabrera: Who pays taxes on it?
Dorothea Puente: My nephew.
Detective John Cabrera: He pays it?
Dorothea Puente: Uh-huh.
Detective John Cabrera: So you pay the... all the utilities on the property are in your name, and you have a verbal agreement, lease, that you were to live there and maintain and take care of the property, right?
Dorothea Puente: When I was gone. He rented my apartment out, but kept the... [unclear: "You told he's under" / "It's still under"] Montalvo, which was one of my married names.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, so you have... you have Dorothea Montalvo, and you're also Dorothea Puente.
Dorothea Puente: I was born Puente, and I was married to a Montalvo, and I was married to a Puente.
Detective John Cabrera: You were born Montalvo, right?
Dorothea Puente: No, I was born Puente.
Detective John Cabrera: Puente. Where were you born?
Dorothea Puente: Redlands, California.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. Okay. Now, the questions we need to ask you, I need... I need... I need all the truth from you, okay? Number one is, going back, of course, you know, this whole thing got started was because of this last individual, right, Montoya. Now, his disappearance is very suspicious, I can tell you that. Even the things that you said didn't even quite connect with what the other individual told us when she spoke to you. There were a lot of inconsistencies.
Dorothea Puente: Well, you know, I didn't think I was ever gonna have to remember everything, and that's [unclear: "fine" / "why"].
Detective John Cabrera: I mean, I can understand that, you explain that to us. But there's just a lot of inconsistencies. Also, [unclear: "they get in touch with you. I mean, wasn't that I have to"], I'd have to physically see, right now. As far as the social worker, he had no relatives known to her, and never mentioned any, but he had mentioned at one time that he wanted to move from your place; he didn't want to stay there anymore. And then we talked to Mr. Sharp.
Dorothea Puente: Mm.
Detective John Cabrera: Mr. Sharp says he hasn't seen him for three months, but you said the other day... Yeah. Social worker hasn't seen... So who is lying to me? Who is lying to me?
Dorothea Puente: [unclear: "Do it to you, why not?"] He was there Saturday and Sunday.
Detective John Cabrera: How can Mr. Sharp...
Dorothea Puente: Well, he doesn't... he doesn't even associate with the other people.
Detective John Cabrera: Mr. Sharp also told us that you had told him to lie.
Dorothea Puente: I did not.
Detective John Cabrera: About saying that he was there, because he later told us that...
Dorothea Puente: I did not. In fact, I had asked Mr. Sharp to move.
Detective John Cabrera: When did you ask him that?
Dorothea Puente: He couldn't pay rent one month. October. Because he's blowing his money drinking, gambling again. I don't know if he drinks or not.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: And that was the second time that he had done that since he's been there, and it makes it hard to come up to the rent, you know. And so he finally paid me [unclear: "on"], and I asked him if he would move.
Detective John Cabrera: Why would Mr. Sharp tell us that...
Dorothea Puente: He's mad because I'm making him...
Detective John Cabrera: ...and he hasn't seen him for three months? Also Ben. How long did Ben live there?
Dorothea Puente: Just two months.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. So Ben... Ben Fink lived there two months?
Dorothea Puente: Right.
Detective John Cabrera: Did... let me see, who would have known him? Did Melvin...
Dorothea Puente: No.
Detective John Cabrera: ...[unclear: "man"]? Who? Melvin? Or John McCauley? John?
Dorothea Puente: You mean Mervin.
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah.
Dorothea Puente: I say no, it's Mervin. I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: Because he associated with him?
Dorothea Puente: No, he doesn't associate with [unclear: "hurting anybody" / "anybody"]. But Ben...
Detective John Cabrera: What place was Ben staying in?
Dorothea Puente: Downstairs, in one of the rooms by himself.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: But he... but he was gone most of the time, because he was always out drinking.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. Okay.
Dorothea Puente: And he had a bad leg, and he would go sell his blood every week down at the plasma center, and he said he was gonna go back to Marysville.
Detective John Cabrera: When did he say that?
Dorothea Puente: When I told [unclear: "that" / "him"] he had to leave.
Detective John Cabrera: When was that?
Dorothea Puente: Two, three months ago.
Detective John Cabrera: Uh-huh.
Dorothea Puente: It was in the summertime sometime.
Detective John Cabrera: Now, see, Mr. Sharp says that Ben was missing the same time as Montoya. The social worker says she was in contact with Montoya up till about three months ago, okay? And she says she has not heard hide nor hair from him.
Dorothea Puente: Well, he really didn't want to see them, but he'd always... he had attempted to... he went to detox on occasion, twice.
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah, and he told [unclear: "him a detox" / "them at detox"], "Take me out of your home, I don't want to live there." And the social worker was on very good terms with him, to where she was...
Dorothea Puente: Right.
Detective John Cabrera: ...and when he all of a sudden disappeared, she started thinking, what the heck's going on here? And then she got the inconsistent things about... you tell me that the guy was from... you didn't know where he went, and then she got a phone call, and she says that you told her he went to Utah. I mean, there's a lot of...
Dorothea Puente: [unclear: "idea"] that I don't understand. I don't know where the man was going to take him.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, but I mean, there's a lot... you see what I'm saying? There's a lot of inconsistency there, okay? And it can't explain his disappearance. It can't. Now, coupled with all of that. Okay. Coupled with all of that. And then we come and talk to you.
Dorothea Puente: Could you put a tap on my phone and listen to my conversation? Like if they called me.
Detective John Cabrera: No.
Dorothea Puente: I would like you to do that.
Detective John Cabrera: For me to be satisfied, I would have to physically see them.
Dorothea Puente: Well, then couldn't you... once, when the call came through, couldn't you monitor all the calls?
Detective John Cabrera: No.
Dorothea Puente: And then put a trace on the call?
Detective John Cabrera: I don't know how that works, to be truthful with you.
Dorothea Puente: Because I would be willing to have that done, you know. Because I know he'll get in touch with me.
Detective John Cabrera: The other problem is this. You know, we go and talk to you, be real good about it, and then we ask you for permission. You didn't even have to give us permission to look, but you were cooperating, you said sure. You gave us permission to dig around in the yard and look around. And then we dig, and lo and behold, we find what looks like the remains of a human being. Clothing and all. But if it was... if it was Alvaro, you know, Bert...
Dorothea Puente: No, I don't think it's Alvaro. I don't think Alvaro, if he was in the ground, would be that decayed, to be truthful with you.
Detective John Cabrera: Or Ben Fink, you know. Now, I know that the concrete up in front of the shed hasn't been on the ground that long. I can tell.
Dorothea Puente: Up in front of the shed?
Detective John Cabrera: You know where the rose bushes are? You put the roses in the little round circles?
Dorothea Puente: Oh, yeah.
Detective John Cabrera: Right in front of the shed. Not in back of the shed where the garden area is, but in front there. About an inch thick.
Dorothea Puente: Let me see. And there it's...
Detective John Cabrera: How about this last summer, maybe, you put that down?
Dorothea Puente: I'm trying to think how long ago. Maybe, maybe... [unclear: "It wasn't" / "It was"] February or something like that.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, because there was a trench there. There was an open trench there at one time. Do you remember that?
Dorothea Puente: Yeah, we were looking for [unclear: "sewer lines" / "storylines"].
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, so right in front... right in front of that was an open trench. And in fact, if my memory serves me right, that trench went this way and then along the fence on the side of that shed. Am I correct? Made like an L shape. You mean right where the concrete is now, underneath that concrete, there used to be, you had a, uh... there was a ditch, a little ditch. You say you were looking for sewer. Okay. Now you know where I'm speaking about. Okay. You know where the little shed is outdoors, not in the back of the house, the one on the side of the house. Okay. Let's say the garden... the garden is... okay, let's do it like this. Here's the garden area. Okay. Then there's some concrete here, and then you have a shed right there. Okay. And then in front of the shed, you have a little bit more concrete with little circles, and I believe those are some kind of bush. And then, uh, let's see, you have another little, some kind of a patio thing here, and then that driveway goes out like that. Here's the front... front of the house. You know what shed I'm talking about, right here. Okay. This area, you know that where the concrete's only about an inch thick, that looks like it hasn't been...
Dorothea Puente: I thought that was about three inches.
Detective John Cabrera: Well, you can see it on the sides there. What I'm saying is that concrete hasn't been there that long. I'm no expert, but I know when I look at concrete, I've been around it long enough that that... that has not been there that long. Do you remember when that [unclear: "company was put out" / "concrete was put down"]? In the early part of the year, then? Okay. But that's what I'm saying. There was at one time a trench there. Am I wrong?
Dorothea Puente: No.
Detective John Cabrera: It was about two feet deep...
Dorothea Puente: Two feet deep.
Detective John Cabrera: ...and it didn't run in an L shape like this?
Dorothea Puente: No.
Detective John Cabrera: Which way did it go?
Dorothea Puente: It just went straight across.
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah. Okay. Right in front of the shed area.
Dorothea Puente: [unclear: "From"] wasn't even as long as this table.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. You were looking for sewer then. Okay. And that was not... when was that? When was that? Was it summertime? Was it early part of the year?
Dorothea Puente: It was probably March.
Detective John Cabrera: About March, okay. Now, you have a shed back here.
Dorothea Puente: [unclear: "This morning was last year"], but it was this year.
Detective John Cabrera: So we know that that concrete... now, the concrete in front here, was that poured at the same time as here?
Dorothea Puente: Oh, no.
Detective John Cabrera: How long has this concrete been there?
Dorothea Puente: Over a year.
Detective John Cabrera: Over a year, okay. And that's connected to the shed. Now, how long has the shed been there?
Dorothea Puente: Over a year.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. Well, what was here before all that was put down?
Dorothea Puente: Plants and gardens.
Detective John Cabrera: Plants and gardens and all the dirt and stuff like that, okay.
Dorothea Puente: But it was so much for me to keep right here.
Detective John Cabrera: Oh, I know. I know. Yeah, it would be. Okay, and then you have a little shed back here.
Dorothea Puente: I mean, look, another family living downstairs at that time, you know.
Detective John Cabrera: How long has that shed been there? The metal shed. Did you get it after you got out of 1985? Did you put it up there, or was it there before then?
Dorothea Puente: The metal shed, I put it up there [unclear: "now"]. That's what I have to remember.
Detective John Cabrera: I mean, was it after you got out of 1985?
Dorothea Puente: Yeah.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, so after 1985, you put it up, the shed. Okay, now, the back of your house, there are some trees planted here. How long have those trees been there? They seem to be rather new. By the way, the roots do not...
Dorothea Puente: Yeah, they're a couple months [unclear: "away" / "old"].
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah, I can move them with my hand, and I can see that the roots are not adhering to the soil.
Dorothea Puente: That's a lot I was going to take out, because it was [unclear: "done"].
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. It appears that there was some digging in this back area there. Did you have any open trench areas back there?
Dorothea Puente: There used to be a chicken coop there.
Detective John Cabrera: Where now? In this whole thing?
Dorothea Puente: Yeah.
Detective John Cabrera: How long ago? When was the last time there was any digging back here? Because it appears that there has been some digging in there.
Dorothea Puente: Yeah, let's see. That was just summer sometime.
Detective John Cabrera: What did you dig up? Was there another trench for sewer or anything?
Dorothea Puente: Yeah, but there was nothing there. John and [unclear: "John Dougson"] and, uh... [unclear: "We're a box"].
Detective John Cabrera: What area of it? Here are the trees right here. What area would it be?
Dorothea Puente: All back in here.
Detective John Cabrera: This whole thing?
Dorothea Puente: Uh-huh.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. We have a couple of big concrete, um, those big... they look like bathtubs to me.
Dorothea Puente: Well, that came out of the upstairs.
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah. Anyway, how long have those been there?
Dorothea Puente: Three or four years.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, those have never budged. Okay, and then of course I was digging around over here, and then there's a big tree right here. Okay. But the only digging you know of... okay, we know there was a trench, he dug a small trench right here. How deep was that?
Dorothea Puente: Maybe 18 inches, 20 inches.
Detective John Cabrera: [unclear: "Put in half?"] Okay. Then you didn't find anything, you just buried it?
Dorothea Puente: Uh-huh.
Detective John Cabrera: And then later on you laid concrete over the hole?
Dorothea Puente: Yeah. I threw some... like, if you look in my kitchen, I have one bucket where I put my coffee grounds, eggshells and stuff. In fact, you'll find that all over the yard.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: You know.
Detective John Cabrera: Well, a lot of people do that. Have you ever had any, or had the need for any, lye around the house?
Dorothea Puente: Lye?
Detective John Cabrera: White powder lye?
Dorothea Puente: We put some lye... lye... in, um... where did John put the lye? I forget if it was Lumberjack or a [unclear: "petal nursery"] told me that the ground is so hard.
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah.
Dorothea Puente: Like if you go back and dig where the grass is, you know, where we put the grass in the front, they dug up about that much. If you walk across to the empty lot, you'll see the grass sitting there. And they dug about that much. And we put in... I didn't put the lye in there, but I put a bag of fertilizer, and I [unclear: "picked"] one bag of potting soil or something, and then I found it.
Detective John Cabrera: Well, I noticed a lime back there in the soil.
Dorothea Puente: Well, they said that the ground needed...
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah. But I also noticed in the hole we were digging, there was some residue of lime. Would there be any reason to be lime two feet below in the soil?
Dorothea Puente: None.
Detective John Cabrera: You never put any down?
Dorothea Puente: Never put none.
Detective John Cabrera: How about John?
Dorothea Puente: No.
Detective John Cabrera: Who did the digging back there for you? Who dug all these trenches?
Dorothea Puente: I think John does some. I tried, but I couldn't...
Detective John Cabrera: Arthritis or something?
Dorothea Puente: No, I have a bad heart, and I can't lift anything very heavy.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. So John did most of the digging when it needed...
Dorothea Puente: Well, not always. I mean, sometimes I had, what do you call it, casual labor?
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah. Okay. Now, getting back to what we find in this hole here, do you have any knowledge of what was in that hole at any time?
Dorothea Puente: Mm-hmm.
Detective John Cabrera: Did John ever tell you about anything?
Dorothea Puente: John?
Detective John Cabrera: Sure. Could he have put something in that hole?
Dorothea Puente: I don't think so. He's had a quadruple bypass or whatever. You know, whatever he does, he has to...
Detective John Cabrera: How about Mr. [unclear: "Kelly"]?
Dorothea Puente: No, he never does. He has a bad leg.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: The only thing he ever did was help take up some grass out by the sidewalk where I put some dichondra.
Detective John Cabrera: Have you done any digging up here in this area? Or mainly all your digging is back in the side in here?
Dorothea Puente: The side, because I always have tomatoes and bell peppers and squash, chili peppers in the summertime.
Detective John Cabrera: This area here, what's this here?
Dorothea Puente: This is a driveway.
Detective John Cabrera: You got the concrete, and you got some plastic over here.
Dorothea Puente: Okay, that's from my grass that we just planted yesterday.
Detective John Cabrera: But that was only dug up about this month. What was in the middle there before? Grass?
Dorothea Puente: But it was... it was bad, bad.
Detective John Cabrera: So you dug it up, you're planning...
Dorothea Puente: Yeah, and if you go look across the street from my house, you can see it.
Detective John Cabrera: I believe you. I believe you. Okay, now let's get back to this other thing here, okay? I've got a man missing. Nothing seems... everything seems totally... Nothing fits here. That's what I'm trying to say. Nothing is... okay? And there's one of two things I can surmise. Okay? And that is, Mr. Montoya is dead.
Dorothea Puente: No, no.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, [unclear: "miss that"]. I'm just saying, let me just... I'm trying to surmise this, and then we'll try to clear this up. That he is dead, and that either... either John McCauley or Melvin... Mervin John either killed him, or that maybe he met foul play by your hands. That's... that's my alternatives.
Dorothea Puente: I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: But my other alternative is that the fact that somewhere in that backyard, Dorothy, [unclear: "and he's lying" / "he's lying"], maybe along with other people.
Dorothea Puente: No.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. And I'm also going to tell you that we have this same information a year ago.
Dorothea Puente: A year ago?
Detective John Cabrera: Yes, a year ago. So what I'm telling you is not new to me.
Dorothea Puente: [unclear: "Monday" / "Sir"], can I hire a contractor to go in and tear everything down and dig it up to prove to you that there's nobody there?
Detective John Cabrera: If any digging has to be done, we're gonna do the [unclear: "dig" / "digging"].
Dorothea Puente: Well, okay.
Detective John Cabrera: What I'm trying to do is right now save a lot of painstaking trouble, a lot of time and a lot of trouble. And what I'm asking you, my bottom line, is what I'm truly asking you, Dorothea...
Dorothea Puente: Sir, I have never killed anybody.
Detective John Cabrera: Maybe not you, but how about Mr. McCauley?
Dorothea Puente: What reason would he have to kill anybody?
Detective John Cabrera: Well, I know we're going to find out about the checks, okay, the Social Security checks. And I know that you're past... that you've been in some trouble with it, okay? And I know, I remember when you were arrested and you were in the [unclear: "Bee" / "beam"].
Dorothea Puente: I didn't do that. I admitted to that to get the trial over with.
Detective John Cabrera: But you still were convicted and sentenced to it. The similarities are there. The only thing that's different now is the fact, rather than take something and let it go, you get rid of them and nothing's ever found. Now, here's a man from Costa Rica or Timbuktu that really nobody cares about. In fact, just like Mr. [unclear: "Kelly"] said, he says, hey, when you're nobody, you're nobody. Nobody cares. So you disappear, you're a transient or you're a bum or you're an alcoholic. A lot of people think nobody ever cares.
Dorothea Puente: I cared for him. I bought him clothes. I treated him very, very good.
Detective John Cabrera: Have you seen Ben Fink around?
Dorothea Puente: No. I told him not to come back on the property.
Detective John Cabrera: He was normally a regular around town. And you know what?
Dorothea Puente: But he lived in Marysville before.
Detective John Cabrera: Dorothea, if he'd have been in Marysville, he'd have been arrested. That's how Ben was. You know how Ben was.
Dorothea Puente: No, I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: He get drunk. He get drunk. You get a little... you get a little goofy, right? And then they usually end up getting arrested or taking a detox or something. Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Gone. What am I to think? What am I to think after hearing this a year and following along, following along, watching, waiting, and then all of a sudden, lo and behold, I dig a body in your backyard?
Dorothea Puente: I don't know anything. I didn't even see the body.
Detective John Cabrera: It may be. And you may be... that may be true. That's why I'm asking you. I'm appealing to you, Dorothea.
Dorothea Puente: Sir, I don't know anything.
Detective John Cabrera: I'm going to ask you right now again. Are there any other bodies in your backyard?
Dorothea Puente: I didn't even know that one was there.
Detective John Cabrera: Did Mr. McCauley put any other bodies in the backyard?
Dorothea Puente: [unclear: "Ask, ask Mr. McCauley" / "Yes, yes, Mr. McCauley"].
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. And I intend to. Okay. That's why I'm asking you. Because if it has to be said, I want it said right now, let's clear it up. Let's not get into something that maybe isn't there. I want to know. I want you to be truthful.
Dorothea Puente: Sir, I didn't even know that body was there.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: If I had it, I would have said, no, don't search the yard, you know. But I had nothing to hide. I don't want to go back to prison.
Detective John Cabrera: Well, I realize that. I realize that.
Dorothea Puente: I'm [unclear: "no lady" / "an old lady"].
Detective John Cabrera: I realize that too.
Dorothea Puente: I'm trying to [unclear: "get off for all" / "get off parole"]. I'm trying to get my life together.
Detective John Cabrera: But Dorothea, that all the indications, everything doesn't make any sense, is what I'm trying to tell you. I'm appealing to you. I'm appealing to you, Dorothea. That's what I'm saying, is nothing makes sense. Nothing. Everything you said was inconsistent with what somebody else said. When you sat in there, it was like sticking your foot in your own mouth. I couldn't believe you were telling me that. Because I thought, wait a minute, wait a minute. Something is wrong here. And then when I talked to Mr. McCauley, he couldn't even substantiate what you were saying. And here's a man that's lived there four years. Almost. Four years in March.
Dorothea Puente: No, he's been there two years.
Detective John Cabrera: Well, he says four years in March.
Dorothea Puente: Well, he couldn't... remember that I've gotten out in '85.
Detective John Cabrera: But he was living there before you then, right?
Dorothea Puente: No.
Detective John Cabrera: Dorothea, I know if we dig, we're going to find more. I know that. I know that.
Dorothea Puente: Well, I didn't put them there. I couldn't drag the body any place.
Detective John Cabrera: I believe that. But I believe there's somebody else involved here. Somebody else. Because here's people that are still getting checks, and they haven't even been seen. Hide nor hair, Dorothea. You have to look at it from my view, dear. I look at it and I think nothing makes sense. This is absolutely goofy.
Dorothea Puente: Sir, I have not killed anybody.
Detective John Cabrera: Maybe you didn't kill anybody. That may be true. But maybe you know what really happened.
Dorothea Puente: No, I don't.
Detective John Cabrera: I think you know about Mr. Montoya. Because Mr. Montoya is not in Costa Rica. Mr. Montoya is not in Costa Rica.
Dorothea Puente: Where is he?
Detective John Cabrera: He's in that backyard, I believe, Dorothea. He is in that backyard, or he's been disposed of some other manner.
Dorothea Puente: Not by me.
Detective John Cabrera: Then by Mr. McCauley? Dorothea, I'm asking.
Dorothea Puente: I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: I'm asking you.
Dorothea Puente: I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: I want to know what you know. I want to know what you know. You know, you are the leader of the house. You have the background, okay? You've been there before. You know what I'm talking about.
Dorothea Puente: I have never killed anybody in my life.
Detective John Cabrera: Then who did kill somebody? Mr. McCauley?
Dorothea Puente: I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: Tell me now.
Dorothea Puente: I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: Tell me now, Dorothea.
Dorothea Puente: I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: When did Mr. Montoya really disappear? When? Let's... be honest with me. Be real honest with me. October? September? That's when the last time you saw him?
Dorothea Puente: I saw him this weekend.
Detective John Cabrera: Sunday?
Dorothea Puente: Yes.
Detective John Cabrera: See, that's what I'm trying to say. Everybody else says no. He hasn't been around. Why would they tell us that?
Dorothea Puente: I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: Why would they tell us that?
Dorothea Puente: I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: Why? Why would they tell us that? Why would Mr. Sharp tell me that you promised to do some things for him if he lied for you?
Dorothea Puente: I asked Mr. Sharp to move. That's why he's mad at me.
Detective John Cabrera: I'm going to bring him in here. I'm also going to bring Mr. McCauley in.
Dorothea Puente: I always look like I'm lying because I'm nervous, because I'm [unclear: "going to prison" / "afraid of going to prison"].
Detective John Cabrera: Dorothea, you sit where a lot of people are sitting, I know. And I'm not taking the idea... I'm not using that against you, that you've been in prison.
Dorothea Puente: Now, once a person has been in prison, the police officer's best...
Detective John Cabrera: Not so. Not so.
Dorothea Puente: Yes, it is.
Detective John Cabrera: But I'm saying it's the background. It's the background. It's not like you were in there for something else. What I'm asking for is, nothing makes sense here, Dorothea. Nothing makes sense. Everything you said, you can't really substantiate. Mr. McCauley tells me another thing. Mr. Sharp tells me another thing. And I've got a guy that's been missing for at least two and a half, three months. And a social worker that says, I've been working with the guy all the time, and he's just up and leaves, and I'm thinking, well, wait a minute.
Dorothea Puente: And then all of a sudden, they didn't want anything to do with him.
Detective John Cabrera: And then... yeah, no, that's not so. That's not so. She worked with him. She worked with him. She's the one that made the report.
Dorothea Puente: I know it, and I was going in...
Detective John Cabrera: But then what I'm saying is, I hear this a year ago. A year ago I hear this.
Dorothea Puente: I didn't have him a year ago.
Detective John Cabrera: No, not him. I heard about other people. You know what I heard? I heard, hey, Dorothea, over at 1426 F Street, killing people and burying them in their backyard. How do you explain the body in the backyard? Two and a half feet down, with clothing, and everything with it. How?
Dorothea Puente: When you find out how old it is, and see that I didn't have anything to do with that...
Detective John Cabrera: What if it's only a year old? What if it's two years old? What if it goes back and it's going to be in between that 1978 and 1982? How are you going to explain that? It isn't old enough that it's already... the bones are disintegrating. I can tell you. They look like they're [unclear: "splashed still" / "fleshed still"]. They didn't [unclear: "know the bones disintegrated"]. You know, that's what I'm trying to say. Then... then... then what are you going to tell me? If I say, hey, they [unclear: "say me at the max"], maybe at that time zone where you were there, how do you explain that? Somebody snuck in your backyard, put a human body and buried it?
Dorothea Puente: [unclear: "There wasn't" / "There was"] other people living there. There was two other families that lived downstairs.
Detective John Cabrera: But you know what goes on in that residence. You are the keeper of the house. You are the keeper of the yard.
Dorothea Puente: I go to bed at 8 o'clock at night, sometimes 9 o'clock, sometimes 7:30.
Detective John Cabrera: Dorothea...
Dorothea Puente: Do you really think I'm guilty?
Detective John Cabrera: You want me to be truthful with you?
Dorothea Puente: Yes.
Detective John Cabrera: I'm going to be real truthful with you. Dorothea, I think you had... somehow you're involved in it. It may not have been by your hand, but it's by somebody's hand, and I think you are very, very frightened right now. You're looking and you don't know what to think, and it's not just because you had any prior background, because there's been a lot of people... I mean, we talk... most of people we talked to all the time. So I understand that point. But the problem is, I think what you realize is this whole thing is up. I think you realize that whatever has been going on is up. It's over, because we are going to uncover that yard, and you've lived there. And that's why, Dorothy, I'm saying right now, this whole thing is up. These people have been missing, and you can't even explain why. And then when you tell me, it's something that isn't... totally different than what I know. Why am I wrong? Am I lying?
Dorothea Puente: I haven't killed anyone. And what happened there... My conscience is not bothering me. When I confessed to my other stuff and went to prison for it, I was glad to get it off.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. And that's why you'll never rest, and you have no intention of going back to prison. I know that. And I don't know if you would honestly tell me... I don't know right now if you would tell me that if you did.
Dorothea Puente: Yes, I would tell [unclear: "me" / "you"]. Yes, I would.
Detective John Cabrera: I don't know.
Dorothea Puente: I think because I can't take the pressure and stuff.
Detective John Cabrera: Well, if you didn't, somebody else did. And the only other person that I can say that has remarkably been around when these guys have disappeared, that's Mr. McCauley.
Dorothea Puente: Well, question Mr. McCauley.
Detective John Cabrera: I am, but I think you might have knowledge. I think... what I basically wanna know from you is, where is Mr. Montoya? Where he really is.
Dorothea Puente: Right, it doesn't matter, I don't know.
Detective John Cabrera: And you said you saw him [unclear: "suddenly" / "Sunday"].
Dorothea Puente: Yes, I did.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. Okay, well, let me go out and make a few phone calls. You want some more water?
Dorothea Puente: Yes, please. Because I wanna get off parole.
Detective John Cabrera: I know you do. I think everybody does.
Dorothea Puente: [unclear: "You're off"]. I've had a good record.
Detective John Cabrera: Well, I know that, that's what I'm saying. I mean, I see this and I say, hey, here's no problem. And then all of a sudden this starts happening, and we have information a while back, and I'm thinking, well, wait a minute, wait a minute, what's going on here? Why are these people saying this? What's going on here? Okay, what's going on? Why does one of the occupants say, hey, Dorothea told me to lie. She said she'd give me some stuff, she told me to lie.
Dorothea Puente: I didn't do that.
Detective John Cabrera: Why would this man... and then this man, knowing I says, if you lie to me, then you're in violation of the law, if you're gonna tell me this stuff...
Dorothea Puente: Sir, I asked him to move, and he is upset.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, well, we won't get it all... we'll, you know, I wanna check everything you're telling me, Dorothea. You know, I wanna check everything that you've been telling me, and to make sure that that's what's going on. Okay? But let me warn you, if I find any inconsistency whatsoever, Dorothea, anything, okay? You know what the next step is?
Dorothea Puente: Right.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, and it won't end there. That's why I'm saying, if you wanna... if there's something you gotta say, or if you're protecting somebody, or you feel fond, or you don't wanna turn them in, or you know something, tell me now. Get it out. Get it out. We'll discuss it. There may be some reason, there may be something logical. The only thing is, right now we got somebody sitting on that hole. We don't know who it is.
Dorothea Puente: I don't know who it is. I didn't go out there, look. I sat right in my kitchen where I said... I said, I'll sit right here. The only thing I did was to go put a dress on, because I didn't want to be running around with my [unclear: "not close" / "night clothes"]. It was a holiday. I didn't expect anybody in.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. [unclear: "You let me see some water"] and I'll get some more coffee. Now try to think while I'm [unclear: "not here a few messages"]. [unclear: "Try"] anything comes to mind, let me know. Because that's why I'm here. I need to know. I need questions answered with you.
Dorothea Puente: Okay. And I try to look... I try to look you straight in the eye.
Detective John Cabrera: Well, I'm trying to look at you too, but I want the truth.
Dorothea Puente: But they say if you keep looking at somebody, you're telling, you know.
Detective John Cabrera: I know, because when you look at me, I'm looking at your eyes. I'm watching you. I'm trying to extract right out of you. I want the truth out of you. I'm trying to extract that, and by looking in your eyes.
Dorothea Puente: [unclear: "I wish you would saw show up" / "I wish he would show up"] right now.
Detective John Cabrera: I just don't think he's going to.
Dorothea Puente: He is. He is. I believe in God, and I know he's going to show up.
Detective John Cabrera: How about Ben Fink?
Dorothea Puente: Mr. Fink, I haven't seen him since... since the day I told him to move, because I couldn't take his falling down and drinking anymore.
Detective John Cabrera: Let me get you some water.
Detective John Cabrera: Who put the concrete down? You know where the little rose bushes are, the little circles are, where the trench was? Who dug the trench, first of all? McCauley? Was anyone doing the digging? Who was doing the digging on it?
Dorothea Puente: Jose Gonzales and, um, some guy by the name of Joe.
Detective John Cabrera: Jose Gonzales. How old was he?
Dorothea Puente: About 55.
Detective John Cabrera: Jose Gonzales. Where did he live? Did he live downtown here? Was his name Jose or Pedro?
Dorothea Puente: I think he lived in 5th and J.
Detective John Cabrera: Oh, okay. He didn't live over here, at 5th and J. Okay, Pedro Gonzales or Jose Gonzales. Now, they dug... they dug the hole. Did they just dig it for you, and then you searched around and looked for pipes, or McCauley searched around, looked for pipes, or what?
Dorothea Puente: Well, we still... there was no pipes. So we just covered it right back on. We covered it up now. [unclear: "I think they're dead"].
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, and then... then about, you say March or so this year, that concrete was put down?
Dorothea Puente: Mm-hmm.
Detective John Cabrera: Who put that concrete down?
Dorothea Puente: Mm-hmm.
Detective John Cabrera: Was it somebody around there? Did McCauley do it?
Dorothea Puente: No.
Detective John Cabrera: You hired someone to do it?
Dorothea Puente: Uh-huh.
Detective John Cabrera: Because it's awfully thin. I mean, it looks like if I hit it with a hammer it would break.
Dorothea Puente: I just didn't want to have to [unclear: "pull a point" / "pull a permit"].
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, I understand.
Dorothea Puente: I don't care that much for yard work.
Detective John Cabrera: I don't blame you either. [unclear: "Do I?"] Okay. I'm having you sit in the lobby for a while. We got to make some phone calls. You might as well sit and relax. I hear it's a little cooler. Okay, one thing I need to ask you is, we'd like to dig some more, okay? And that might entail digging up that concrete where those flowers are. Okay, do you have any problem with us digging here?
Dorothea Puente: None. None whatsoever.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, because you don't have to let us.
Dorothea Puente: Look, I want to get this over with.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. Um, what else? How do you get a hold of your nephew? How can we get a hold of him also?
Dorothea Puente: Ricardo Ordorica. He works at the Clarion.
Detective John Cabrera: Clarion Hotel?
Dorothea Puente: Uh-huh. He's not there right now.
Detective John Cabrera: How about a home phone or anything?
Dorothea Puente: Uh-huh. [telephone number withheld]. Just a minute. [telephone number withheld].
Detective John Cabrera: [Number repeated; withheld], okay.
Dorothea Puente: His name is Ricardo.
Detective John Cabrera: Uh-huh. Okay. I'll talk with John and Mike and send him to a couple other areas. Um, okay, but basically that's what we want to do. And if there is, like I said, if there is a point where everything has to be replaced and everything, I think the city will bear that burden of taking care of that. But I'd like to get a hold of Ricardo and advise him also what we'd like to do to the property, and see if that's okay with him.
Dorothea Puente: It's okay, because he let me put it up. I paid for all of that.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, all that concrete and [unclear: "shit" / "stuff"]?
Dorothea Puente: Mm-hmm.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: It's a storage space, you know, and I just can't do the yard work anymore.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. All right. Now, uh, your niece, uh... niece Brenda, she was living with you this year?
Dorothea Puente: No.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. Was Jose living there with her, and also...
Dorothea Puente: No, she just still was hanging around him.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. How well [unclear: "you know" / "do you know"] Jose? Because I know... I know when you mention Jose, and I think I know Jose. Was I... I arrested him. Remember when he and Brenda were in the little whatever they got? We picked him up, Brenda and Jose, not at his place. We brought him in. Did she ever tell you about that?
Dorothea Puente: I haven't talked since a year and a half ago.
Detective John Cabrera: Is it been a year?
Dorothea Puente: Years... a year.
Detective John Cabrera: So it's been a year and a month, approximately?
Dorothea Puente: Almost two months.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. Okey-dokey. Oh, were you at any point...
Dorothea Puente: Right. Are you gonna let me go around? Do I have to stay here?
Detective John Cabrera: No. More than likely we'll let you [unclear: "hang on back" / "go on back"]. We'll furnish you some... right now...
Dorothea Puente: I'll take a cab. I mean, it's better.
Detective John Cabrera: We can give you a free cab back. It doesn't matter. Possibly, yeah. Yeah, we might have to talk with him a little bit more. One of the things I wanted to ask you is, have you ever talked to John about people, maybe like Brenda, accusing you of maybe putting people in the backyard or anything? Did that ever surface?
Dorothea Puente: Yes.
Detective John Cabrera: When? What... when was that?
Dorothea Puente: She told me that if I didn't let her stay there, that she was going to say that.
Detective John Cabrera: When was that?
Dorothea Puente: Couple years ago.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: She said if... if that she was... that... what she was gonna say, that...
Detective John Cabrera: That you were burying people in the backyard if you didn't let her stay there. So she was kind of extorting you. And would you tell her go to hell?
Dorothea Puente: Yes. In fact, I turned around on... what... when she came home, I let her come from prison and stay there for a few days, and she was using drugs. I don't believe in drugs. Okay? I don't smoke. I don't... well, this year I just... I was nervous, I was out there [unclear: "picking myself"]. I take my heart medication, my thyroid, my hormone, you know, that kind of medication. John and anybody that stayed there can tell you that I don't allow drugs. Okay? In fact, I don't, no smoke.
Detective John Cabrera: So she did threaten you some time back, that, hey, I'm gonna tell [unclear: "please threaten your life"], and then tell you, you better let me stay here, I want to tell the police you... you're burying people in your backyard. Okay. And you thought hogwash, and then you said no, she wasn't staying there. Okay. Did you ever tell John that...
Dorothea Puente: John... John [unclear: "it all isn't"]... she said that to me.
Detective John Cabrera: Was he ever present?
Dorothea Puente: In fact, he picked her up off the floor a couple times. Off the bed... not off the bed, but she's [unclear: "a cup phone"] out of bed, and we finally... I asked John to help me, because I can't lift anything.
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah.
Dorothea Puente: And I put a blanket down, he helped me lay her down on the floor.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: And then I called... she did... she left my [unclear: "hat" / "house"]... she got out on a Saturday, and she was supposed to report Monday. She left Sunday morning to go see whoever, and she didn't come back until Wednesday night, and that's when we were up all night with her.
Detective John Cabrera: Do you remember when she was a suspect in that murder over there? Remember that?
Dorothea Puente: No.
Detective John Cabrera: Because her and Jose were supposedly involved with killing of somebody.
Dorothea Puente: Oh, yeah.
Detective John Cabrera: And we arrested him.
Dorothea Puente: Yeah.
Detective John Cabrera: Do you remember that? Was it you that called the police and gave anonymous information? Okay. All right. And it turned out that they weren't involved, actually, because I dealt with that case, see. And that's when I started receiving information. Okay? But that was this year.
Dorothea Puente: No, no, I didn't... it wasn't this year that I called. It was a year ago.
Detective John Cabrera: It might have been somebody else, 'cause somebody called on him, and of course she said it was Dorothea.
Dorothea Puente: Dorothea? On what murder?
Detective John Cabrera: No, she said... no, no, this was something where, when we picked them up for it, she says, hey, I know [unclear: "called in"] and blamed us, on us. Dorothea did, see. So, um... but anyway...
Dorothea Puente: I wanted to... but her parole officer did tell her that I called when they picked her up at my house, which I thought was kind of lousy, because I gave him my word. Like I told you, I'm trying to [unclear: "get up for all" / "get off parole"], I'm trying to do what's right. And, um... um... when I called him, they promised me they wouldn't tell her that I called, because I said... as soon as she... he says, when she shows up, will you call? And I said yes, and I did, and when they came, they walked in and arrested her.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay.
Dorothea Puente: Two times they arrested her at my house.
Detective John Cabrera: Your house. And that was a year and a half ago?
Dorothea Puente: You arrested her on September, about the fourth or third, and then they arrested her, um, once before. She got out, and she was just out a short time, she started using and burnt my rug.
Detective John Cabrera: And now Jose, was Jose at your house a lot?
Dorothea Puente: No, he just came and did some work. I only met him [unclear: "to her on" / "through her"]. He... I let her have him call her... I let her let him call her collect there one time when he was someplace, and then I... well, I didn't know he was in prison at that time. And he came and did some work for me.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay. Now, they could have killed somebody, you know. [unclear: "Oh, they were ever at the house at the same time together"]?
Dorothea Puente: But Brenda's a real bad heroin addict. In fact, I think they're looking for her now, because somebody came to the house the other day looking for her, but I wasn't home.
Detective John Cabrera: You speak Spanish?
Dorothea Puente: Some. All right... because my nephew, he speaks... he speaks English. [unclear: "Rather"] speaks Spanish.
Detective John Cabrera: Let me go give him a call. You hang tight.
Unidentified: Dorothy is...
Dorothea Puente: Hey, can I ask a question?
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah.
Dorothea Puente: That's Jose?
Detective John Cabrera: Yeah.
Dorothea Puente: Was the [unclear: "murderer" / "murder"] by the name of Ed Williams?
Detective John Cabrera: What do you mean, the murderer?
Dorothea Puente: You said that they were involved in a murder. Was that Ed Williams?
Detective John Cabrera: No. Why, do you know him? Anything that they've been involved in?
Dorothea Puente: Yeah, they're... Jose was working in the same with Ed Williams that time. He was taking care of him.
Detective John Cabrera: Oh, yeah, the old man, Ed Williams.
Dorothea Puente: No, Ed Williams was there. He was just... what happened is Ed finally went to the hospital.
Detective John Cabrera: Oh. If you want to ride back with him, I'll get him. Just sit here and I'll get him.
Dorothea Puente: Okay.
Detective John Cabrera: Give us a few minutes, okay? We'll pay for a taxicab, if that's fine. That way it'll save...
Dorothea Puente: Well...
Detective John Cabrera: I'll be right back. Let me get the book. You want to go back to 1426, right?
Dorothea Puente: Yeah.
Detective John Cabrera: Okay, let me get a book. I'll get you all signed up. I'll be right back. ---