"Totally Innocent": Raw Salt Lake City News Footage of Joseph Paul Franklin, 1980 to 1981
Unedited Salt Lake City TV news footage from 1980 and 1981, preserved by the Oklahoma Historical Society: Franklin briefly tells reporters he is "totally innocent" and the victim of a government "frame-up", and his lawyer reacts to the federal verdict.
- Subject
- Joseph Paul Franklin
- Recorded
- about 1981
- Runtime
- 11:47
Content warning: Contains racist views stated by the subject; concerns racially motivated murders; no graphic detail.
The Interview
This is unedited television news footage, not an interview and not a finished news report. It was shot by a Salt Lake City station's "NewsWatch2" news team between August 1980 and March 1981 and survives on a cassette in the WKY/KTVY/KFOR collection of the Oklahoma Historical Society, which put it online in 2023. Franklin is heard only briefly, for about 19 seconds in all, answering reporters' questions: he says he is "totally innocent" and that the charges were "trumped up" because of his "white racist views", and later calls the case a government "frame-up". The rest of the tape is police radio and crew talk at a night crime scene, long passages without speech, a reporter's remarks outside the courtroom, an interview with his defense lawyer after the federal verdict, and, at the end, unrelated interviews with skiers about a snowfall.
Historical Context
Franklin, born James Clayton Vaughn Jr. in Mobile, Alabama, in 1950, traveled the United States between 1977 and 1980 shooting Black people, interracial couples and Jewish people. On August 20, 1980, near Liberty Park in Salt Lake City, he shot and killed Ted Fields, 20, and David Martin, 18. He was detained and questioned in northern Kentucky in September 1980 and escaped, and was arrested in Lakeland, Florida, on October 28, 1980. On March 4, 1981, a federal jury in Salt Lake City convicted him of violating the two men's civil rights, and in September 1981 a Utah jury convicted him of their murders; each case brought two life terms. He was later convicted of other murders, sentenced to death in Missouri, and executed on November 20, 2013.
Circumstances of the Recording
The Oklahoma Historical Society's catalog lists the tape's contents in order: the crime scene, a composite sketch and photograph, Franklin's car in Florence, Kentucky, footage in Tampa, his return to Salt Lake City, the federal trial, his entry to the federal building, an interview with his lawyer, and, in the last three minutes, people talking about snow and skiing. The reporter calls Franklin "Jimmy" and "Joe". After the verdict the reporter waits outside the courtroom, notes that marshals are waiting for Franklin, and calls questions to him as he comes out.
What the Interview Covers
In the first exchange Franklin tells a reporter he is "totally innocent", that "they had a lot of unsolved killings and they needed somebody to pin it on", and that the evidence against him existed "just because of my white racist views". Asked whether he has such views, he says, "Oh, definitely, yeah," and adds that he is against "race mixing and communism". In two later grabs he says the "communist federal government" is trying to frame him and calls the case a "government frame-up". His lawyer, introduced as Robert Van Sciver (spelling unverified), says after the verdict that he is disappointed, that he believed there were problems with the government's evidence, that an appeal is likely, and that Franklin said nothing to him afterward except that he wanted to go to the lockup and talk with his sister. He declines to discuss whether Franklin wanted to testify.
What Makes the Recording Significant
The tape preserves raw field footage from the time of the Salt Lake City case, including Franklin's own brief public denials soon after his arrest and on verdict day, and a defense lawyer's unscripted reaction to the federal verdict. A few seconds of the first exchange were later reused in MSNBC's 2009 *Criminal Mindscape* episode on Franklin.
Archival Importance
This tape survives because it ended up in an Oklahoma City station's library, now held by the Oklahoma Historical Society, and it shows how local television gathered material on the case: crime-scene audio, courthouse waits and reporters' questions, alongside the unrelated stories on the same cassette.
Important Caveats
Franklin speaks for only about 19 seconds; do not present this as an interview. His statements that he was innocent and framed are his claims: he was convicted in both the federal and the state cases, and he later confessed to many of his crimes. The originating station is identified only as "NewsWatch2, Salt Lake City" (very probably KUTV, whose newscast was titled "NewsWatch 2" in 1979; not confirmed for this tape), and the dates of the individual segments are inferred from content. The lawyer's surname is spelled differently in the catalog, the captions and the machine transcript. The skiing interviews at the end are unrelated to the case.
Police Radio / Crew: You better call [unclear: "Barry" / "Berkeley"] and find out what's happening. [00:07 to 00:22: no clear speech.]
Police Radio: [unclear: numbers, "25", "20", "21", "221"; and "Hello."]
Police Radio / Crew: I don't know what sector you're in, but, uh, want to be on the way down here. [unclear: "I'm going to call, I'm going to be in downtown scene right now." (captions only)]
Crew Member: Can you turn those lights off for about five minutes, please?
Voice: Okay. Yeah, just a, uh, [unclear: "good second" / "quick second"].
Crew Member: [unclear: "Like Barry, is that not Barry?" (captions) / "They buried..." (Whisper)] You going to knock off your lights for about five minutes?
Voice: You folks, TV?
Police Radio: LDS Hospital. [inaudible]
Police Radio / Crew: [unclear: "406 12 we work" / "Hey, I've got you all the way."] Yes, uh, [unclear: "Walker's" / "Walk us"] on the scene. He's got a light. I've got a few shots here before he got here of them talking to [unclear: "Barry" / "Bob"]. I can't see anything to stick around [unclear: "for" / "to grab"].
Police Radio / Crew: Okay, stand by. I'm checking out another location right now that appears to be, uh, panning out.
Voice: All right, have a seat right in here. Hold on, let me see your [inaudible]. Have a seat right in there. [01:35 to 03:07: no clear speech (probably catalog items 2 to 4: composite sketch and photo, Franklin's car in Florence, Kentucky, and Tampa; not confirmed without viewing). Whisper's "See you right there" at 01:35 and 01:57 and "Thank you" at 02:00 and 02:30 are not in the captions.]
Camera Crew: I don't know if I [unclear: "go" / "'d go"] down that far. I mean, I [unclear: "can back up" / "'d come back here"].
Camera Crew: No, I didn't. No, I just had to change my filters, and [inaudible]. [03:20 to 03:36: no clear speech.] [Franklin with reporters after his arrest (probably catalog item 4 or 5, Tampa or his return to Salt Lake City; not confirmed).]
Reporter: [unclear: "Give me the reaction to your charges." (captions) / "Jimmy, the reaction to your charges?" (Whisper)]
Joseph Paul Franklin: Uh, totally innocent.
Reporter: Totally innocent to all of them? [unclear: "Does that include the daddy?" (captions only)]
Joseph Paul Franklin: It was all trumped up. They needed somebody to pin it on.
Reporter: What do you mean, trumped up?
Joseph Paul Franklin: They needed somebody. They had a lot of unsolved killings and they needed somebody to pin it on. So they just picked me.
Reporter: They think they have a lot of evidence against you, Jimmy.
Joseph Paul Franklin: That was just because of my white racist views.
Reporter: Do you have white racist views?
Joseph Paul Franklin: Oh, definitely, yeah.
Reporter: Well, how do you feel about blacks?
Joseph Paul Franklin: I'm against race mixing and communism. [04:02 to 04:40: noise, movement and indistinct voices; the captions have no text. Whisper gives fragments ("Let's go." "Move." "Sit down." an expletive, "You don't have to lie.") that cannot be confirmed or attributed; see Variant readings.] [Franklin escorted, probably at the federal building (catalog item 6 or 7; not confirmed).]
Reporter: Joe, got anything to say? What do you have to say, Joe?
Joseph Paul Franklin: Yeah, like I said, it's a, the federal, communist federal government is trying to frame me.
Voices: Close it up. [unclear: "We'll pick her. We got it." (captions only)] Close the door. [Verdict day outside the courtroom (catalog item 6 or 7; probably March 4, 1981).]
Reporter: Franklin's just coming out, Terry, coming out of the door. Stay with me just a second here. Marshals are waiting for him. His lawyer's already come out. We'll get his reaction when he walks out of the courtroom.
Reporter: Joe, what's next? Joe, let's get your reaction, Joe. Joe, did you get a [unclear: "good chance" / "copy of that"]? Anything to say, Joe?
Joseph Paul Franklin: [unclear: "No, really." (Whisper only)] It's government frame-up, like I said all along.
Reporter: Certainly no different from what we've heard Joseph Paul Franklin say before: a government frame-up. "That's what I've said all along." Earlier, his lawyer, Robert Van Sciver, came out, and I asked him for his reaction to the case.
Voices: [unclear: "How's the cops?" (captions only)] Move back. You're going to get run over.
Police Radio / Crew: Control ground three, okay, we're about a minute away now. [Interview with defense lawyer Robert Van Sciver after the verdict (catalog item 8).]
Reporter: Bob, will you talk to us real quick?
Robert Van Sciver: Sure.
Reporter: Okay, let me get your, let's get your reaction to the verdict.
Robert Van Sciver: Well, I'm, of course, disappointed, and I think with pending capital offenses in the federal court, or in the state court, it'd be inappropriate to comment much beyond that.
Reporter: Did you find that to be quite a shock?
Robert Van Sciver: Well, I, I don't know if I just, I'm never certain about what verdicts will be and what the results will be, and I think it's inappropriate to comment much beyond that.
Reporter: What did Mr. Franklin say?
Robert Van Sciver: Didn't say a word.
Reporter: Not to you?
Robert Van Sciver: No. He wanted to confer further with his sister, and that was all he wanted to say. Wanted to go to the lockup and ponder, I guess, his situation.
Reporter: Are you more disappointed because Franklin felt you were being manipulated by the government?
Robert Van Sciver: No. I'm disappointed that I tried hard, and I think we tried a good case, and, uh, I'm disappointed with the outcome. There were some problems with the evidence as I assessed it.
Reporter: Were you feeling a bit encouraged by the amount of time it was taking the jury to reach a decision?
Robert Van Sciver: Some. I think it's a reflection of our system and the grandeur of it, and they certainly were committed to purpose and followed through as best they could.
Reporter: Do you plan an appeal?
Robert Van Sciver: I think we have to, yeah. I think an appeal would be good.
Reporter: Are you going to be the attorney for that appeal, Bob?
Robert Van Sciver: No, Mr. Franklin will decide that.
Reporter: He didn't say anything to you afterwards?
Robert Van Sciver: Not one word. Other than he wanted to go to the lockup and talk with his sister.
Reporter: You haven't made any appointment to talk with him?
Robert Van Sciver: No, he didn't request it at this time. I think he needs a couple days to ponder it and to figure out [unclear: "and assess the" / "necessity of"] competing considerations.
Reporter: Bob, I realize it's early for you to think about this, uh, but let me just get your off-the-top reflection of what might have lost it for you, what may have swayed the jury's mind.
Robert Van Sciver: I don't know. I don't know. That's pure conjecture, and I think it's also wrong to speculate on that.
Reporter: Any guess?
Robert Van Sciver: I have no guess.
Reporter: You still feel there were weaknesses in the government's case?
Robert Van Sciver: Mm-hmm, I do.
Reporter: What about his not taking the stand?
Robert Van Sciver: [unclear: "I get hurt." (both sources; sense unclear)]
Reporter: Did you try and talk him into taking the stand?
Robert Van Sciver: We had some discussions in that regard. It's probably wrong or unfair to even ask what those discussions led to.
Reporter: Then I won't ask, but could you answer?
Robert Van Sciver: No.
Reporter: Is it fair to say he wanted to take the stand?
Robert Van Sciver: It is not fair to comment.
Reporter: Anybody else?
Voice: Uh-huh. [unclear: "So much."] [Unrelated: interviews with members of the public about snowfall and skiing, probably at a Utah ski area (catalog item 9).]
Member Of The Public: [unclear: "Not a tourist anymore, so I don't like them." / "He's not a tourist anymore, so I don't like him."]
Reporter: Right. Okay, thank you.
Member Of The Public: Sure.
Reporter: How do you feel about the snowfall today?
Skier: Oh, I'm delighted. I came out from [unclear: "Britain" / "Brisbane"] this year to ski, and I was so upset when it didn't snow all season.
Reporter: Did you stay all this time?
Skier: Oh, yeah, I'm [unclear: "in" / "at the"] university. But this is great, you know, skiing at last.
Reporter: Have you been on the mountain at all today?
Skier: Uh, I've had one run so far.
Reporter: How are the skiing conditions?
Skier: Pretty good. [unclear: "Little better" / "A lot better"], no rocks.
Reporter: Great, thank you.
Skier: Yeah.
Reporter: How do you feel about the snowfall?
Skier: I'm very happy with it, thanks.
Reporter: What were you doing when there wasn't any snow?
Skier: Working. I don't like work.
Reporter: Have you been on the mountain yet today?
Skier: Yeah, we were up there this morning, first [unclear: "thing" / "time"].
Reporter: How are the conditions?
Skier: Good, heavy in spots.
Reporter: Just good?
Skier: Yeah, well, it's good as you can expect, eh?
Reporter: You're not jubilant?
Skier: No, not too much.
Reporter: Okay.
Skier: I know. Okay? Yeah. Do you want me to look at the camera or you?
Reporter: You look at me. That's, you don't have to look at the viewing audience. You look at the camera, it doesn't matter.
Reporter: So how do you feel about the snowfall?
Skier: I think it's terrific. I've come all the way over from Edinburgh, Scotland, to ski here. I'm just glad the snow's come.
Reporter: What would you have done if there wasn't [inaudible]?
Skier: I would have been in the pub drinking, actually.
Reporter: How are the ski conditions today?
Skier: Ski conditions are great. The pubs in Utah aren't, of course, but ski conditions are super, yes.
Reporter: Thank you very much.
Voice: [unclear: "I don't know if you're able to know." (captions only)]
Reporter: Okay, you guys, how do you feel about the snowfall?
Skier: Oh, it's [unclear: "good" / "great"]. Deep powder.
Reporter: Great.
Skier: My name's (name withheld).
Reporter: How are the conditions up there?
Skier: Oh, it's great. No rocks.
Reporter: You guys looking forward to tourist season?
Skier: [unclear: "Yeah. No." (Whisper only)]
Reporter: Okay, thanks. [inaudible] You have a moment to talk to me? How are the ski conditions up there?
Skier: Fine.
Reporter: You looking forward to skiing this season? [inaudible] How'd you feel when there wasn't any snow? [inaudible] How do you feel about all this snow?
Skier: Good.
Reporter: Okay, thanks. I guess he didn't do very well, did he?
Voice: Anytime.
Reporter: Okay, you're here from out of town. How do you feel about the snowfall?
Skier: Well, it's really great. You know, it's been really, um, cold back east, and so I've skied in Vermont, but this is just great. We never get powder like this. It's really nice.
Reporter: Okay, great. Thanks.
Voice: [unclear: "dynamic for high speeds" (captions only)] [11:16 to 11:46: no clear speech.]
Voice: Hey. ---