"There Comes a Time When I Just Have to Say Whoa": Ted Bundy and Judge Cowart, 1979

Name: "There Comes a Time When I Just Have to Say Whoa": Ted Bundy and Judge Cowart, 1979
Uploaded: 2020-06-29
Duration: 8 min 14 s
Description: After a night in which a cell light was smashed, Ted Bundy kept the Miami court waiting, complained of strip searches, and was told by Judge Edward Cowart that the trial would go on without him.

After a night in which a cell light was smashed, Ted Bundy kept the Miami court waiting, complained of strip searches, and was told by Judge Edward Cowart that the trial would go on without him.

Subject: Ted Bundy
Recorded: about July 1979
Runtime: 8:14

Content warning: Refers to the murders of two women and to a bite mark on one victim's body.

The Exchange

In July 1979, during his trial in Miami for the Chi Omega murders, Ted Bundy did not come to court one morning. Overnight, according to a jail officer's testimony, an orange had been thrown through the bars of his cell at the Dade County Jail, smashing a light, and pieces of glass were missing. Judge Edward D. Cowart ordered that Bundy be told the trial would continue without him. Bundy arrived just over twenty minutes later. With the jury absent, the judge called him to the bar, and the exchange that followed is recorded here, in a report by David Larson of KCTS 9 Seattle for public television.

Historical Context

On January 15, 1978, Margaret Bowman and Lisa Levy were killed at the Chi Omega sorority house at Florida State University in Tallahassee, and other women were attacked that night. Bundy, arrested in Pensacola in February 1978, was charged with the murders. Because of publicity in Tallahassee, the trial was moved to Miami, where jury selection began on June 25, 1979. Bundy acted as part of his own defence team.

Circumstances of the Exchange

The KCTS report opens with Bundy complaining that he was strip-searched after seeing his attorneys, and describes the fatigue of the long trial. Judge Cowart questioned jail staff in open court and warned that he would find Bundy in contempt and defer any punishment until the case was over. When Bundy arrived, Cowart told him that "this court is not going to follow your schedule".

What the Recording Covers

Bundy says he has "only exerted that part of my potential which is nonviolent", apologises to the court while saying "there comes a time when I just have to say whoa", and tells the judge he is willing to accept the consequences of his actions. Cowart answers that if Bundy says "whoa" again he will be "using spurs", and closes with "Bless your heart... if you don't, we'll miss you." A second report, from a Miami station, covers testimony by the forensic dentist Dr. Richard Souviron, who told the jury that Bundy's teeth made the bite mark found on Lisa Levy's body. The video ends with courtroom sound of that testimony.

What Makes the Recording Significant

The exchange shows the open conflict between Bundy and the court, and Judge Cowart's mixture of firmness and folksy humour, which became one of the best-known features of the trial. The KCTS report is a Pacific Northwest public-television account of the trial. The bite-mark testimony that follows was among the most important evidence against him.

Archival Importance

The jury convicted Bundy on July 24, 1979, and Cowart sentenced him to death on July 31. The recording preserves, from the trial itself, both Bundy's complaints about his treatment and the evidence that helped convict him.

Important Caveats

Bundy's complaints about his treatment in jail are his own assertions. The jail officer's account of the smashed light was not tested in this footage. Several short lines in the exchange are hard to make out, and some speaker attributions are marked uncertain in the transcript. Bite-mark analysis has since been heavily criticised as a forensic method; the testimony is shown here as given in 1979.

Ted Bundy: There is no justification for the treatment I'm receiving. I am given a strip search after I see my attorneys. Now, that is unconscionable. There is a concerted attempt on the part of the correctional system in this county to have constantly placed more stress and pressure on me than I experienced in the courtroom.

Narrator: The months of preparation, pretrial hearings, the abortive attempt to seat a jury in Tallahassee, and the fourth week of the trial in Miami have not worn well with attorneys and Ted Bundy. Fatigue is becoming an important part of this trial. When court opened today, Bundy was sulking in his cell across the street at the Dade County Jail. Judge Edward D. Cowart questioned the jailer about his star prisoner.

Judge: Go ahead.

Jail Officer: At approximately one o'clock this morning, [unclear: "my officers on duty" / "my office is on duty"] on the fourth floor of the jail heard the sound of breaking glass coming from the safety cell area. Two of the officers immediately responded to the area, where they found broken glass all over the entranceway to Mr. Bundy's cell. On further examination, they found an orange had been thrown through the bars, smashing one of the two special lights they had [unclear: "replaced" / "placed"] in cell 405 [unclear: "from" / "for" / "to"] Mr. Bundy. They attempted to collect all the glass, and they found certain pieces of the glass missing. They then removed Mr. Bundy from cell 405 and placed him in cell 406, searched the cell, and found additional pieces of glass in the back portion of the cell.

Narrator: Judge Cowart, known throughout Florida for his tough but fair handling of trials, questioned other jailers and then sent a stern message to Bundy.

Judge: At 9:30 the court is going to reconvene, and if he has voluntarily absented himself, as he has at this proceeding, the trial is going to continue. I want you to communicate that to him. I [unclear: "wanted to be" / "want him to be"] fully apprised of that. In that communication, I'm going to ask the bailiff [unclear: "the company of" / "to accompany"] the court reporter over there, so that there is recorded in this record the instructions that you give him and his reply. And if this man is not in court by 9:30, this case will proceed. Is there any question about that? Any of you want to ask the court about it? All right. And the court will find him in contempt of this court for failing to be here at this time, and I will indicate to you that punishment or any sentence on that will be deferred until the case is over.

Narrator: Just over 20 minutes passed before Bundy arrived. The jury was not present.

Judge: Mr. Bundy?

Ted Bundy: Yes, sir.

Judge: The court wants to talk to you a minute. Come up to the bar here. What happened? [unclear: Whisper repeats "What happened? What happened? Wait."; not in the captions]

Ted Bundy: Do you mean in the jail?

Judge: The court was supposed to start at 9 o'clock. I'm going to tell you something, young man, and I want to tell you clearly and unequivocally so you understand. This court is not going to follow your schedule. This court is going to set the time when we convene and when we do not convene. I've given you every conceivable privilege to discuss matters with your counsel, to be with your counsel, and if there's any more delay in this court's proceeding occasioned by your voluntary acts, we're proceeding without you.

Ted Bundy: I've only exerted that part of my potential which is nonviolent.

Judge: [unclear: "You don't care if you're the court you're going to" / "You indicate to the court, you know, I'm sane"] ...

Ted Bundy: No, I'm saying...

Judge: The potential is violent?

Ted Bundy: No, no, I'm saying...

Judge: Seek and ye shall find, knock and it will be opened unto you. Remember that. Always remember that phrase.

Unidentified Speaker: Hallelujah.

Ted Bundy: Today was an extraordinary situation. I apologize to the court, but I don't apologize in one respect, because I think it's warranted. There comes a time when I just have to say whoa.

Judge: If you say whoa as it relates to these proceedings anymore, I'm going to be using spurs and overcome that whoa.

Ted Bundy: You better.

Judge: And this court is going to proceed on schedule without your voluntary interruption. Now, that's all I want to communicate to you.

Narrator: Only Judge Cowart has been able to resist the building pressure created by the hard-fought trial, and in his last comments to Bundy the reason was very clear.

Judge: But I also want you to know that, as forbearing as this court can be, it can also be just that strong. I don't think there's any clarification on that in your mind.

Ted Bundy: I'm willing to accept the consequences for actions, Your Honor. Anything I do, I'm aware of what the court will do, and that's [unclear: "what we are"].

Judge: [unclear: "Then we're to get it"] Bless your heart, and I just hope you stay with us. And if you don't, we'll miss you. All right?

Narrator: In courtroom 4-1, Judge Edward Cowart is very comfortable being the boss. In Miami, I'm David Larson, KCTS 9 Seattle, for Public Television.

Unidentified Speaker: Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Watson.

Narrator: When autopsies were performed on Tallahassee murder victims Margaret Bowman and Lisa Levy, police Sergeant Howard Winkler took pictures of a bite mark found on Lisa Levy's left buttock. Then the pictures were sent to this man, forensic dental expert Richard Souviron. Armed with a court order, Souviron said he visited Bundy in his Tallahassee jail cell and took impressions of his teeth. Later, Souviron declared, in his opinion, Bundy's teeth left that mark. Bundy himself argued against letting that testimony in today, but the judge ruled against him. Dr. Souviron, using pictures of the bite mark and pictures of Bundy's teeth, explained the peculiarities of teeth and what they tell him.

Dr. Richard Souviron: Whoever made this mark in the skin, in the flesh, had crooked teeth.

Narrator: Comparing the oddities in Bundy's teeth to the characteristics of the bite, Souviron had this conclusion for the jury.

Prosecutor: Can you tell us, within a reasonable degree of dental certainty, if those teeth made the mark on those photographs?

Dr. Richard Souviron: Yes, sir.

Prosecutor: And what is that opinion, sir?

Dr. Richard Souviron: They made the mark.

Narrator: The defense insists Dr. Souviron is wrong, that not enough has been done in the area of bite-mark analysis to lend any credence to his conclusion, and they'll be trying to make the jury believe that too. Allison, here in News Watch 2, in Miami.

Witness: The photograph that I made.

Prosecutor: And what is that?

Witness: It shows bite marks.

Unidentified Speaker: [unclear: "A former jury on bite mark analysis twice" / "but a forgery on bite mark analysis twice"] [inaudible]

Prosecutor: Can you tell us, within a reasonable degree of dental certainty, if those teeth made the mark on those photographs?

Dr. Richard Souviron: Yes, sir.

Prosecutor: And what is that opinion, sir?

Dr. Richard Souviron: They made the mark.

Dr. Richard Souviron: So if you bit with these four teeth, you would have a pattern that would, each tooth would have relatively the same size. And when you look at this mark, then, and orient you anatomically, this is the bites that are in question here. This is a large blow-up of the bites that are in question.

Prosecutor: All right, sir. Now, before, whenever we first began talking about bite-mark comparison and [recording ends] ---