"I Am Not Guilty": Ted Bundy's Raw KUTV Jail Interview, Glenwood Springs, 1977

Name: "I Am Not Guilty": Ted Bundy's Raw KUTV Jail Interview, Glenwood Springs, 1977
Uploaded: 2024-12-10
Duration: 39 min 26 s
Description: In spring 1977, weeks before his first escape, Ted Bundy spent nearly half an hour answering a Salt Lake City reporter's questions from a Colorado jail, insisting he was innocent and blaming police and the press for the "Bundy monster".

In spring 1977, weeks before his first escape, Ted Bundy spent nearly half an hour answering a Salt Lake City reporter's questions from a Colorado jail, insisting he was innocent and blaming police and the press for the "Bundy monster".

Subject: Ted Bundy
Recorded: about April 11, 1977
Runtime: 39:26

The Interview

In the spring of 1977, Ted Bundy was held in the Garfield County Jail in Glenwood Springs, Colorado, awaiting trial for murder and acting as his own lawyer. KUTV, the Salt Lake City television station, sent reporters Lucky Severson and Barbara Grossman to the jail. This is the station's unedited film of the session: nearly half an hour of Bundy answering Severson's questions, followed by Grossman's repeated takes of her closing report to camera, signed "Barbara Grossman, Newswatch 2, Glenwood Springs, Colorado." Grossman reported that Bundy agreed to the interview on condition that the specific charges were not discussed.

Historical Context

Bundy was arrested in Utah in August 1975. On March 1, 1976, after a trial without a jury, Judge Stewart Hanson Jr. found him guilty of the aggravated kidnapping of Carol DaRonch, who had escaped from him in Murray, Utah, in November 1974. He was sent to the Utah State Prison. In October 1976 Colorado charged him with the murder of Caryn Campbell, a nurse who disappeared from a ski lodge at Snowmass Village, near Aspen, in January 1975. In January 1977 he was moved to Aspen to face that charge. He was held in the Pitkin County Jail until April 11, 1977, when he was transferred to the more secure Garfield County Jail in Glenwood Springs.

Circumstances of the Interview

The interview was filmed at the jail, with the camera stopping and starting. Bundy describes his cell as six and a half feet by twelve and says he spends 24 hours a day in it, apart from visits to the library. Details on the tape date it to the weeks before his first escape: he says he plans to have his mother visit "sometime in June", he is asked only hypothetically whether he would like to escape, and Grossman reports that "in a few weeks" he would ask the court to keep the press out of his trial, which was expected to begin that fall. On June 7, 1977, Bundy jumped from a window of the Pitkin County Courthouse in Aspen; he was recaptured on June 13. On December 30, 1977, he escaped from the Garfield County Jail and made his way to Florida.

What the Interview Covers

Bundy talks about jail conditions, his daily routine and why he chose to defend himself. He explains why he showed no emotion when he was convicted in Utah, and says he lost his temper when Carol DaRonch testified at a preliminary hearing in Colorado, standing up to say she was lying. He blames police in Salt Lake County, and the press that reported what they said, for what his lawyer John O'Connell called the "Bundy monster" image. He claims the police know he is innocent and that, while they pursue him, the real offender remains free. Asked whether he would like to escape, he says every prisoner dreams of it, himself included. He says he does not worry about the death penalty, says the parents of the young women have suffered "an incredible tragedy", and, asked whether he has ever physically harmed anyone, answers "No", adding "not in the context I think that you're speaking of". All of these are his claims.

What Makes the Recording Significant

The raw tape shows how Bundy presented himself in 1977: confident, articulate, joking, and insistent on his innocence, with a ready answer to every question. It includes the interviewer's own unscripted questions and the off-camera moments around them, which a broadcast report would have cut. His remarks about dreaming of "flying over those fences" were made weeks before he escaped, though in context he is speaking of prisoners in general and does not describe any plan.

Archival Importance

This is KUTV's raw film of an interview that is otherwise known from short excerpts, including the one-minute clip in Sinclair's news archive. It was filmed by the television station of the city where Bundy had lived and studied law, and was released by the station's owner. Bundy gave other interviews in 1977, so this is not his only one from that year.

Important Caveats

Despite the uploader's title, Bundy admits nothing in this interview: everything he says about his innocence, the evidence, the police and the eyewitness is his own account. Carol DaRonch's identification of him was upheld, and the Utah conviction stood. After escaping, he murdered Lisa Levy and Margaret Bowman at Florida State University's Chi Omega house and 12-year-old Kimberly Leach in 1978, and before his execution on January 24, 1989, he confessed to many more killings, including murders in Utah and Colorado. He was never tried for Caryn Campbell's murder. The interview's exact date is not documented. Some passages, especially around camera stops and at the end, are hard to hear.

Ted Bundy: We, we got to wear jeans and blue shirts.

Lucky Severson: Is your, is your family going to have to see you? [unclear: "going to have to see you" / "about to see you"]

Ted Bundy: Um, not as yet. It's a rather expensive trip. [unclear: "Aspen's an expensive place to stay" / "expensive places to stay"].

Lucky Severson: Your mom's still up in Washington?

Ted Bundy: Yeah. We start... We plan to have her, I plan to have her down here sometime in June.

Lucky Severson: First of all, I guess I should just ask, how are you doing up here?

Ted Bundy: It's a short question deserving a long answer. Uh, I'm doing well, I feel good, and working hard on my case. Uh, need a lot more sun and a lot more fresh air, but other than that, I'm doing okay.

Lucky Severson: Do you get fresh air, [unclear: "son" / "Sam"]? Do you get out?

Ted Bundy: Well, I get to go to the library. It's a 50-yard walk from here across this, across the parking lot to the library, and that's my fresh air.

Lucky Severson: Do you have more [unclear: "freedom" / "room"] at Utah State Prison?

Ted Bundy: Well, uh, when I was in, on the main line, as they say, in medium security, I had a lot more freedom, you bet. A big yard to walk in, and basketball court and handball court, you know. Your standard medium security life in a prison is, is a fairly decent existence, relatively speaking, to a county jail. County jails are by and large pretty confined and, uh, inhibiting sort of places.

Lucky Severson: Why did you decide to defend yourself?

Ted Bundy: I began thinking about that way back in Utah. Um, I had a year to study criminal law in action, and I have a lot of strong, I have a, I'm a very biased person. I have a lot of strong opinions about how things should be done. And when I came here, I think that my opinions were established to the point where the method that my attorneys wished to impose here and my own did not agree, and we couldn't coexist. And theirs were right for them, and mine are going to be right for me.

Ted Bundy: I'm very, I have the greatest amount of confidence that, at least in the preparation stage, that my ideas will work. And believe me, I'm not standing here alone. I just called a half a dozen attorney friends of mine today. Every day I get input, every day I ask questions. Uh, but the reason I went on my own is because I just felt it was time, I felt it was right. I wanted to get involved, I wanted to become a part of my defense, because I am such a part of it. I mean, obviously, I'm going to bear the consequences, so why not bear the responsibility of, uh, of seeking my own acquittal and sustaining my own innocence.

Lucky Severson: Ted, when you left Salt Lake, when you were extradited, you issued a statement saying you feel that everything will turn out all right, that you are innocent. Do you still feel that?

Ted Bundy: Yeah, more than ever. Um, of course, uh, you can't help but become an advocate for yourself when you're so involved in the case. I'm being a good defense attorney, and I'm not, again, I'm not pretending I'm an attorney, but, but being, putting yourself in a position of being your own counsel, it's that positive psychology. You're going to do it. You're going to do it because you're right, you're going to do it because the person you're representing is innocent. And it just happens to be, in this case, I've got a lot of stake, and the person I'm representing is myself, and I'm working all the harder. Yeah, I feel good about it, and yes, I feel that I'm right, and yes, I'm, I feel I'm going to make it. No doubt in my mind.

Lucky Severson: There's always one thing that amazed me. As you know, I covered your trial, and I was there every day. When you, uh, when the judge found you guilty of, uh, second degree kidnapping, you never showed any emotion. Yeah, for somebody who believes he is so innocent, why was there no emotion?

Ted Bundy: My attorney, John O'Connell, and I have always mused over just how I should behave. What's the right way for Ted Bundy to behave and make sure that people get the right impression? And I just behave the way I feel is right.

Ted Bundy: Okay, let me take the day of March 1st, 1976, the day that the judge rendered his verdict in my case, first. I didn't show any emotion because, you know, what am I supposed to do? Am I going to jump up on the table? Am I going to scream? That's what I felt like doing. I heard my mother cry. Uh, it's an emotional time. I don't even like to think of that day. But I wasn't going to give these people, who went out and built a case around a non-existent eyewitness, an eyewitness identification that was built by the police, I wasn't going to give them the satisfaction of seeing me break down.

Ted Bundy: And, uh, sure, I'm [unclear: "mad" / "man"], I'm [unclear: "showing" / "trying to"] emotion right now, because inside I'm [unclear: "mad" / "a man"]. Uh, but I've kept it together, because there's no point in destroying myself. I have got to keep myself together. I have got to stay calm. I've got to keep my presence of mind, because as long as I do that, I'm going to [unclear: "beat these people" / "be with people"], and that's the way I feel. Uh, I showed no emotion. I felt emotion, believe me.

Ted Bundy: Now, the irony comes here when Carol DaRonch, the kidnapping victim from Utah, came to testify in this preliminary hearing here. I was beside myself with rage. Uh, she is turning into a professional witness, as far as I'm concerned. She is a prosecution witness. And when I heard her go through that routine that I had heard three times before, I had restrained myself every time. I couldn't do it this time. And I told my attorney, I says, I'm going to get up. And I got up, and I pointed at the judge, and I pointed at her, and I said, she's lying. She's lied three times before, and she's lying now. And I felt it. And he pulled me down. He says, listen, he says, you can't do that. I said, okay, but I had to do it for once.

Ted Bundy: For once they had to [unclear: "do it" / "see it"], and do you know something? People say, Ted Bundy didn't show any emotion, there must be something in that. I showed emotion. You know what people said? "See, you really can't get violent and angry." [sense unclear] Uh, there's no right way for me to act. I act, and I don't care what people think about how I act. I act according to the way I think is right and best for me at the time. And I'm not going to try to please people or impress people, because, quite frankly, the amount of bias and prejudice that surrounds me as, as a media image, I can't begin to tear down, not with this interview or 100 interviews.

Lucky Severson: Ted, do you believe, I'm a person from the media, and other people here, do you believe that we created you, that, that, that it's, that it's our fault that we created this image of, of the mass murderer? Is, is that what you're saying to us?

Ted Bundy: Um, well, I think in the course of doing your job, you did, not out of, not in a malign way, not, not, not in a personal vendetta against me, but in the course of, of, of publishing the, uh, material, broadcasting the material coming out of the Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office or the Salt Lake County Prosecutor's Office, you began to plant the seed in people's minds. Now, that may be your constitutional right and duty, as well as, you know, your livelihood. Uh, but I think in the process you did create a, a media image of me, uh, that's far beyond, you know, the reality of me. As John O'Connell called it, the Bundy monster. That's what he called it. We ought to, I suggested to John, we ought to get Mattel to make little dolls that walk and say, "I'm the Bundy monster."

Lucky Severson: Um, Ted, let me ask you this. You totally believe you're innocent.

Ted Bundy: Mm-hm.

Lucky Severson: Um, I'm not questioning that. My question to you is, how did it come to be that Ted Bundy could be involved in some of these things, and has now been charged, convicted once, is now facing first-degree murder charges, and, as you know, is being suspected in, in other murders? How did Ted Bundy come out? Where did he come from?

Ted Bundy: That's a very long story, and I can, I really can't. If I knew the answers to that question, I wouldn't be sitting here right now. I'd be back in Salt Lake with a new trial. And one day I'll have those, one day I'll have those answers, and one day I'll have a new trial. Okay? But I don't know why. Okay? I, I can't begin to understand why. I know that, that there's a lot of, uh, police ego on the line. I know that a lot of men in the detectives division, Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office, jobs are on the line. I know that it's, it's a long time ago it ceased to be an issue whether or not I was innocent or guilty. The issue now is, can we pin it on [unclear: "him" / "it"]? Can we, can we follow through and, and maintain our reputation as law enforcement officers?

Ted Bundy: And I'll tell you, as long as they attempt to keep their heads in the sand about me, there's going to be people turning up in canyons, and there are going to be people being shot in Salt Lake City, because the police there aren't willing to accept what I think they know, and they know that I didn't do these things. Excuse me.

Lucky Severson: Okay, then how do you exist every day? How do you keep your [unclear: "sanity" / "sand"]?

Ted Bundy: Well, um...

Lucky Severson: Or, are you keeping your [unclear: "sanity" / "sand"]? You're, you're a young man. You're intelligent, obviously. How, how do you stay in that little cell and...

Ted Bundy: Mm.

Lucky Severson: ...stay sane?

Ted Bundy: They gave me a, a year's training course in that, uh, from March 1st of '76 until I was, uh, extradited to Colorado. I was locked up. I had a lot of time to work on being locked up. Uh, it wasn't easy at first, but now it's easy. I mean, they made me hard inside, and I can spend time in there. I don't like it, I'll never like it, and I'll never accept it, but I can deal with it, because I know how to, how to, let's say...

Lucky Severson: Have you trained your mind?

Ted Bundy: Train the mind, is that, yeah, that's the word I was going to use. But it's not exactly training your mind. It's just creating your own environment in here, okay, and not looking at the ceiling and not looking at the wall and not thinking about the outside and not anguishing over the fact that you've lost your freedom, but simply in here, simply knowing [inaudible; the recording appears to stop and restart]

Ted Bundy: I mean, I'm, I live 24 hours a day in that thing, except I go to the library.

Lucky Severson: What did you say? Is it 6 by 12?

Ted Bundy: 6 by 12. 6 and a half by 12. Somebody talks to me, they're, they're locked up, they're punished here, you know. They're told, you do not talk to Bundy. I don't know why. I don't know why [unclear: "this paranoia" / "they're still there"].

Crew: Okay, take it up here more. Okay.

Lucky Severson: How does this compare to the, to the Utah State Prison?

Ted Bundy: It's a good deal smaller. Uh, I can't, I couldn't give you any exact figures, but I suppose, when I was in medium security at Utah State Prison, you'd have several acres to roam around in, all the, all the blocks, the gymnasium, uh, industries area and whatnot. Even in maximum security we got to go outside, go to the weight room.

Lucky Severson: Uh, what time do you get up?

Ted Bundy: 6:30.

Lucky Severson: Exercise?

Ted Bundy: I walk, uh, about two miles a day. Inside. 880 laps.

Lucky Severson: I haven't been following your [unclear: "clay" / "CL"; possibly "Colorado"] case that closely, but you'll have to agree you're the target of a great deal of mystery and, you said earlier, macabre interest.

Ted Bundy: Mm-hm.

Lucky Severson: Why? I mean, you'll have to admit there's a, there's a, a hell of a lot of circumstantial evidence, at least circumstantial, it seems, to somebody who has read, simply read newspapers and articles.

Ted Bundy: No, I won't admit that. No, there's, I, I don't call it, it's not circumstantial as far as I'm concerned. And I don't really know exactly what you're referring to, and I don't really want to discuss it. But, uh, it, I don't care what [unclear: "they" / "it takes"], anybody says, or, or the, uh, the suspicions anyone harbors on the basis of that misinformation. And indeed, that's what I call it: circumstantial information, perhaps, but misinformation as far as I'm concerned. Uh, a lot of people trying to pin a lot of stuff on somebody because, uh, you know, it's convenient. But, uh...

Lucky Severson: You think you've been set up?

Ted Bundy: Well, I don't think there's any broad scheme. Uh, but I think one begins to, I would have to infer that, based on some of the police activity, I think, following November of '75, you'd have to say that there was a general, uh, design amongst police officers in several jurisdictions to, to do whatever they could. And I think a statement recently made by a sheriff in Utah, um, Utah County, I believe he said they, he walked out of some of those meetings because it was just clear that they were just, they had one thing on their mind and they were going to do anything to prove it. And I think this trial will show exactly what they've done. Uh, I'm not going to sit here and say people have perjured themselves, but I think that will come out.

Lucky Severson: Are you angry?

Ted Bundy: Sure, I get angry. Uh, get very, very angry and indignant. I don't like being locked up for something I didn't do, and I don't like my liberty taken away, and I don't like being treated like an animal, and I don't like, like people walking around and ogling me like I'm some sort of weirdo, because I'm not. Uh, you know, I'm perfectly happy with the person I am, and I've always been. There's not, not, I mean, I, yeah, I don't pay my telephone bills on time, and I don't write my mother, uh, as many letters as I should. There are all kinds of things I can improve about myself. But [unclear: "a weirdo, no" / "a weirdo know this" / "a weirdo knows"]. I feel good about myself. I'm happy with myself.

Lucky Severson: You don't change, you stay Ted Bundy 24 hours a day.

Ted Bundy: Well, um, gee, that name sounds funny, you know. I hear Ted Bundy in so many different contexts. I stay me, okay? I, I've matured in the past year, believe me. I've grown in the past year, and I've learned a lot of things about myself in the past year. Being in prison, going through a kind of hell, matures a person, and I, and I think it's, it's done good things for me. My only misgivings is that I might never be, might never be in a position to apply it, you know, on the streets, where I'd like to apply it.

Lucky Severson: Do you ever think, when you're in that cell, about the possibility that you could one day face a firing squad?

Ted Bundy: They don't have firing squads in Colorado. And I don't think that in any event that I, I ever think, I don't think about it, honest to God. And I, and I've been asked that question before, and I'm going to give you a pat answer, if you don't mind. When you, did you fly over here from Utah?

Lucky Severson: Yes.

Ted Bundy: Did it worry you all the way over that you might be killed in a car, in, in a plane crash?

Lucky Severson: No.

Ted Bundy: Did you think, are you thinking about it now, going back?

Lucky Severson: [inaudible]

Ted Bundy: Same here. I think I stand about as much chance of dying in front of a firing squad or in a gas chamber as you do being killed in a plane flight home.

Lucky Severson: Let's hope you don't. But so you don't lie awake at night thinking about it?

Ted Bundy: Not a moment. Honest to God, not a moment. Because it's not going to happen.

Lucky Severson: And, uh, in the, you know, are you going to be a free man? I mean, you think about being a free man?

Ted Bundy: Sure. Yeah.

Lucky Severson: And you think, when I say there is circumstantial evidence, that I'm in left field? There isn't circumstantial evidence?

Ted Bundy: I know there isn't. You're dealing on the outside, I'm on the inside, okay? I mean, you, you have access to information, but I'm on the inside. Uh, I know what's there and I know what isn't there. I've seen the files and I've heard the reports. And Lord knows, I'm the first and foremost person who has the personal, intimate knowledge that it couldn't be me, that it's not me, that I'm innocent, okay? Dealing from that on out, I know exactly what's what, you know. And, uh, when you tell me the circumstantial evidence, I'm not going to argue with you, Lucky. It's just, let's just wait and let's just let it come out in court. Let's let it be examined in open court, and I'll lay my money on me. You know, that's the way I feel.

Lucky Severson: You think about getting out of here?

Ted Bundy: Well, well, legally, sure.

Lucky Severson: With the rumors that have gone on about you, and you're more aware of them than I am, how have you been treated in prison by other inmates? Well, I think you may have made your life more difficult or more dangerous, being in prison. [unclear: "you may have made" / "you made"; the sense is "it may have made"] (speaker change uncertain)

Ted Bundy: I think you may be more aware of the rumors than I. For this reason: I have heard a lot of talk, and there might be an inmate X who says, you know, Bundy's this and that kind of person. But, you know, when I'm confronted person to person by these people, or by people in general, I have never, I have never been accused, I have never been assaulted, I've never been verbally abused. And the reason is because I hold my head high. I have, I believe, I believe in myself, and I treat every man with the respect that he deserves.

Ted Bundy: And that's the way you get along in prison. One of the many ways you get along in the joint is that you treat a man with respect, that you don't try to, to, uh, to hustle somebody, uh, that you come across straight. One of the first things you learn: that if you're a straight con and you keep your mouth shut and, and, and you keep tight with good people, you're going to stay out of trouble. That's just... And it doesn't make any difference what you've done.

Lucky Severson: What happens if you're in prison five years and nothing like what has happened in the past happens again?

Ted Bundy: What do you mean?

Lucky Severson: I mean, any of the things that you have been accused of, by innuendo, by rumor, by the police department or whatever. What if there are no killings or no kidnappings?

Ted Bundy: It's already happened, hasn't it? I've heard some reports. I, you know, I [unclear: "remember" / "number"] the, the incidents between, between five and eight which are similar to the ones which the police have had the, the nerve to try to associate with me. It's going to continue to happen in Salt Lake and Utah until those police start to wise up and, and stop, stop counting their chickens before they hatch. I think it's a terribly dangerous mentality to try to pin something on somebody who, who they might, who they believe there's a possibility couldn't have done it. And as long as they believe that, they're not going to find the right man. And the man who kidnapped Carol DaRonch is going to continue to be free, and not only her, but every other young woman in the Salt Lake Valley is going to, is going to be threatened by that person or persons. And it's happening today, and it's going to happen in the future.

Lucky Severson: What do you think about in your mind? What do you conjure up about the man that they're after, or the real man who did these things?

Ted Bundy: Man or men. Person, persons. I don't know. I really have, I can't even begin to understand the mentality. I don't understand the motivation. I don't [the recording appears to stop]

Lucky Severson: Okay. Do you ever feel like you'd like to escape?

Ted Bundy: Let me preface any answer to that remark, uh, by giving my feeling about jails. Somebody asked me, is that, that question has been asked me before. I mean, would you want to escape? Have you ever planned to escape? And if my attorney was here, he'd say, "I object, Your Honor. Uh, Mr. Bundy is being asked a question, an attempt is being made to ask Mr. Bundy to incriminate himself." But let me try to get my way out of that one.

Ted Bundy: The Utah State Prison, as you know, is surrounded by several barbed wire fences, and, uh, and, uh, has many, many guards and towers, and they've got dogs that run around there, and they've got bars in the cells, uh, and they've got count procedures. And what do you think that's all for? That's to keep the man in there. Now, does anyone think that if they took those fences down and took those dogs away and those guns away, all those guys would stay? Sure they'd go. The very reason for prison, the very assumption of all those bars and all that barbed wire, is that if it's not there, those guys are going to leave. And I swear to God, every man in that prison, at one time or another, thinks about going, wishes he wasn't there, and wishes he could fly over those fences.

Ted Bundy: I've dreamed about flying over those fences, I've dreamed about climbing over those fences and tunneling under those fences, with every other man in there. I've dreamed about being free, because I don't like my liberty being taken away, and no man does. Some men in the Utah State Prison become institutionalized, because, because they've been so brutalized over the years they don't want to think about the outside. But most every man, when he first goes in, there, dreams and thinks and, and conjures up all kinds of ideas of freedom.

Ted Bundy: But the real difference, the real measure of a man in prison, as far as escape goes, is the difference between hitting that fence and not hitting that fence, between getting shot at and not getting shot at, and having the guts to do it and not having the guts to do it. You might be able to open those gates at the, the Utah State Prison, and 80 percent of the guys wouldn't leave. They'd be afraid to get back out into society. They'd be afraid of being shot or getting another, another beef put on them, okay? But some would. All I'm saying is, I'm no fool. I don't like being locked up, and I don't think any man does.

Lucky Severson: You talk about getting out. Do you ever worry about what some of the parents of some of these women who think you are guilty, that they might come after you?

Ted Bundy: I don't worry about it. Um, there are crazy people anywhere. I've been told that, uh, you know, the parents of these, of these girls are, are fairly decent people. I don't know. And I really feel for them, because apparently they've suffered some, an incredible tragedy in their lives. The loss of a loved one is, is probably, probably the most extreme kind of loss you can suffer in this life. And I say I, I feel as much for them as anybody can, uh, not having gone through that myself. But as far as worrying about that, hey, if, if there, if someone's crazy enough and nutty enough to do something like that, I, I can't stop them. There's nothing I can do.

Lucky Severson: You are not guilty.

Ted Bundy: No, I'm not guilty. Does that, does that include the time I stole a comic book when I was five years old? I am not guilty of the charges which have been filed against me.

Lucky Severson: And the allegations?

Ted Bundy: And, and the allegations, the rumors, and, I don't know all of what you're speaking about, Lucky. It's too broad, and I can't get into it in any detail. Uh, but I'm satisfied with, with my blanket statement that I'm innocent. Uh, no man is truly innocent. I mean, we all have transgressed in some way in our lives, and, as I say, I, I've been, uh, impolite, and there are things I regret having done in my life. Uh, but nothing like the, the things I think that you're referring to.

Lucky Severson: Have you ever physically harmed anyone? Ever physically harmed anyone?

Ted Bundy: No. No, you know... Uh, again, not in the context I think that you're, you're speaking of. [the recording appears to stop]

Ted Bundy: ...before I know it, it's two o'clock in the morning. [unclear: "Put them in bed" / "I put them in"] I developed that technique in maximum security. I can, I found the best way to make time pass: first of all, you come up with a schedule that you try to meet. And schedules are made to be broken, but in the process of breaking the schedule, you never make it, you know, you always hustle to make that schedule, and time just, so, zips away.

Lucky Severson: [unclear: "You a good typist?" / "You get typist?" / "You can talk this"]

Ted Bundy: No, not at all. I, they wouldn't give me any correction fluid, so I thought of these little papers that I put [inaudible].

Lucky Severson: Okay, let me ask just a question here now. Okay, just a couple questions I've already asked you. You don't have to answer them.

Ted Bundy: Yeah.

Lucky Severson: You'll have to admit that there is at least a lot of circumstantial evidence. [pause] Do you ever feel like you're going insane?

Ted Bundy: [unclear: "What's that for? I didn't ask that" / "I didn't ask anything"] [inaudible]

Lucky Severson: Speaking about getting out of prison, do you worry about what some of the parents of some of these girls you've been accused of kidnapping or killing might do to you? [pause] Do you ever think about the possibility of facing a firing squad?

Ted Bundy: I can't... It's built in 1887. [unclear: "Used to be down here" / inaudible] It's, uh, I can't begin to describe: dark, damp and drafty.

Lucky Severson: Yeah. Aside from that, it's a bad trip. So you were glad to come down? [unclear: "So you were glad to come down here" / "See, you're glad to connect"]

Ted Bundy: Six of one and a half dozen of the other, you know. Down there I could talk to prisoners. We had three [unclear: "men" / "me"] circulated around. My cell wasn't locked.

Lucky Severson: It wasn't locked?

Ted Bundy: I was out with everybody 24 hours a day. Nothing happened till they brought Claudine down. Well, you know, she came in [inaudible].

Ted Bundy: I have... I really [inaudible].

Lucky Severson: [unclear: "You'd have to be qualified" / "You to be qualified"]

Ted Bundy: Yeah, for sure. I've already qualified for the third degree. Oh, come on, guys. Yeah, I know. More about the, my class is graduating in about a month, in law school.

Lucky Severson: I'll bet you [inaudible]. How does it make [you feel]? They're graduating. [unclear: "I'll bet you worry about" / "love me any of them"]

Ted Bundy: That pisses me off. Now that does piss me [off].

Lucky Severson: Goodbye. Thank you, Ted. Take care.

Ted Bundy: Okay. Later.

Crew: All right. [unclear: "Team is done" / inaudible]

Barbara Grossman: Bundy spends his life inside this 16-cell county jail. He gets up at 6:30 in the morning, walks, he says, about two miles a day, pacing his cell. But he spends most of his time preparing his defense.

Crew: [unclear: "Why'd the wind have to blow at the last minute" / "the wind have to blow at the last minute"]

Crew: Okay. Why'd the wind blow just when you started?

Barbara Grossman: Bundy refused to discuss any of the specific charges or allegations against him. He says he doesn't think about being convicted or executed. He thinks about being exonerated. His first-degree murder trial will most likely begin next fall. Barbara Grossman, Newswatch 2, Glenwood Springs, Colorado.

Barbara Grossman: Bundy refused to discuss any of the specific charges or allegations against him. He says he doesn't think about being convicted or executed. He thinks about being exonerated. Ted Bundy's first-degree murder trial will probably begin sometime next fall. Barbara Grossman, Newswatch 2, Glenwood Springs, Colorado.

Crew: Okay, there's one more.

Barbara Grossman: Let's see. Ted Bundy has been [false start]. Ted Bundy has been besieged by newsmen throughout the West. What am I saying? Ted Bundy has been besieged by newsmen from throughout the West.

Barbara Grossman: Ted Bundy has been besieged by newsmen from throughout the West. In a few weeks, he plans to go to court here and ask that the press not be allowed inside his trial. In the meantime, he did allow us to interview him, provided we did not discuss...

Crew: You're good.

Barbara Grossman: Yeah, I know.

Crew: Oh, keep going.

Barbara Grossman: Did allow... Okay.

Crew: You on?

Barbara Grossman: Ted Bundy has been besieged by newsmen from throughout the West. In a few weeks, he will go to court here and ask that the press not be allowed inside his trial. In the meantime, he did allow us this interview, provided we did not discuss specific charges.

Barbara Grossman: Okay. But can I ask one thing? Is a light bad on the other ones, that we should maybe just shoot [them again]?

Crew: Hey! Hey!

Barbara Grossman: Ted Bundy has been [unclear: "besieged" / "aborted"] by newsmen from throughout the West. In a few weeks, he plans to go to court here and ask that the press not be allowed inside his trial. [inaudible]

Barbara Grossman: Ted Bundy has been [unclear: "besieged" / "abducted"] by newsmen from throughout the West. In a few weeks, he [inaudible; the take breaks off].

Crew: I'm going to go, [unclear: "Vosie" / "Voli"]. Sorry. Got it. I'll swing it back around.