"I Can't Say for Sure": Ted Bundy Questioned About Colorado, 1976

Name: "I Can't Say for Sure": Ted Bundy Questioned About Colorado, 1976
Uploaded: 2024-10-11
Duration: 25 min 34 s
Description: In March 1976, with his lawyer beside him, Ted Bundy was asked by Colorado investigators about a gas receipt from Glenwood Springs and the weekend Caryn Campbell vanished near Aspen. He said he could not recall.

In March 1976, with his lawyer beside him, Ted Bundy was asked by Colorado investigators about a gas receipt from Glenwood Springs and the weekend Caryn Campbell vanished near Aspen. He said he could not recall.

Subject: Ted Bundy
Recorded: March 11, 1976
Runtime: 25:34

The Interview

On March 11, 1976, two Colorado investigators questioned Ted Bundy at the Salt Lake County Jail in Salt Lake City. Mike Fisher, an investigator for the District Attorney of the Ninth Judicial District of Colorado, and Detective W. H. Baldridge of the Pitkin County Sheriff's Office had come about the murder of Caryn Campbell, who disappeared near Aspen on January 12, 1975. Bundy's lawyer, John O'Connell, sat in. The interview was tape-recorded. This upload preserves about the first 25 minutes of it.

Historical Context

Caryn Campbell, a 23-year-old registered nurse from Dearborn, Michigan, vanished on the evening of January 12, 1975, from the Wildwood Inn at Snowmass Village, near Aspen. Her body was found on February 17, 1975. Bundy, then a law student at the University of Utah, was arrested in Utah in August 1975. On March 1, 1976, ten days before this interview, a Utah judge found him guilty of the aggravated kidnapping of Carol DaRonch. Colorado investigators had linked him to the Campbell case through credit-card receipts for gasoline.

Circumstances of the Interview

Before any questions, O'Connell objected that Colorado had refused to share information with Utah authorities, that everything the defence knew had come from the press, and that Bundy had been subjected to "Kafka-type interrogations" before. Fisher then named the case and the dates of interest, Friday January 10 to Monday January 13, 1975, and read Bundy his rights again. Two lines were struck from the waiver form at the defence's request, Bundy said he was not giving up any of his rights, and the interview went ahead "on a question-by-question basis".

What the Interview Covers

Fisher showed Bundy a credit-card receipt for gasoline bought at Glenwood Springs, Colorado, dated January 12, 1975, and said he had a second receipt from the same weekend. Bundy said the signature "appears to be my signature" and that his card had not been stolen, but that he did not remember the purchase. He said he could not recall where he was on those dates and could not say whether he had been in Colorado that January, though it was "possible". He said he had skied at Aspen years earlier, around 1969, and that he had passed by Vail. He described one or two trips to the Colorado Rockies in 1975 to get away from the pressure of law school examinations: in his account he slept in his car because he had little money, carried his own food, and drove side roads with "no objective place in mind". These are his statements; in this part of the tape he admitted nothing about the crime.

What Makes the Recording Significant

The tape records Colorado investigators questioning Bundy about the Campbell case about ten months before he was transferred to Colorado in January 1977. It shows the evidence investigators put to him at that stage, chiefly the gasoline receipts, and the careful, non-committal way he answered: neither confirming nor denying that he was in Colorado. Colorado charged him with Campbell's murder in October 1976.

Important Caveats

Bundy's answers and his account of his travels are his own statements. He was never tried for Campbell's murder: he escaped from custody in Colorado twice in 1977, from the Pitkin County Courthouse in Aspen in June and from the Garfield County Jail in Glenwood Springs in December. In January 1989, days before his execution in Florida, he reportedly confessed to investigators that he had killed her; that confession was never tested in court. This upload stops partway through the interview; the typed transcript continues well beyond it.

Mike Fisher: This is the 11th of March of 1976, at the, uh, Salt Lake County Jail in Salt Lake City, Utah. Present, Detective Baldridge with the Sheriff's Office, Aspen, Colorado. Speaking is, uh, Mike Fisher, investigator, the District Attorney's Office of Aspen, Colorado. Mr. John O'Connell is the representative of Mr., uh, Theodore Bundy, who is present, being, uh, interviewed at this time. Uh, I think it would be best, I imagine Ted has probably been advised of his rights on several occasions so far, I guess I'll just as well go ahead and advise Ted of his rights again, unless it's your [unclear: "sure" / "feeling"] he's aware of his rights.

Mike Fisher: [inaudible] because we're primarily going to be talking to Ted about, uh, his presence in Colorado in about January 1975, specifically, right now.

John O'Connell: [unclear: "Speaker" / "Who is this"], I want to start by saying that in the last five or six months, uh, we have been attempting, through local law enforcement agencies and through the county attorney's office, to get information on the Colorado cases. We have been constantly informed the, the authorities in Colorado refused to allow them to release any information. And so all the information we've had is that information that's been leaked to the press by the Colorado authorities. And, uh, it's very difficult to respond to questions about something, especially something that happened a year ago, I suppose, um, knowing very little about it.

John O'Connell: Mr. Bundy has been subjected to these Kafka-type interrogations before, and, uh, they can lead to confusion. I think that it ought to start out with you telling us something about what you're investigating. You just start throwing questions out, and we don't even know what's significant and what isn't. It's kind of hard to, to answer the questions. Mr. Forbes interrogated Mr. Bundy, I mean, he was asking questions apparently from all over the United States, and kind of [unclear: "ran into" / "hard"], difficult to figure out what's an important question, [unclear: "give some thought to" / "get some thought through"], or throw off the top of the head. Also, Mr. Bundy does not have his gas records and things like that, so dates [are] very difficult. If you have those records and show them, that might help.

Mike Fisher: Okay. What we're, what we're here for, uh, specifically, is [unclear: "a murder" / "a case"] which involved a young lady by the name of Caryn Campbell, [which] occurred near Aspen, January 12th of 1975. All right, that's specifically what we're going to be talking to Mr. Bundy about now.

John O'Connell: All right. On the gas records, can you give the dates that he was in Colorado? Is this the first? Is this... There were three dates, I understand, that he was in Colorado. Is this the first? Is this the first [unclear: "thing" / "of them"]?

Mike Fisher: This is the case that Mr. Baldridge and I are investigating here, all right? This is a Caryn Campbell case on that particular date. So we're, we are interested in activities from, let's say, January 10th, which would have been Friday, through January 12th and 13th of that year, in that time period, during January 1975.

John O'Connell: Well, what I'm trying to say is that might assist him in answering those questions, uh, to, to know what, you know, which of the trips we're talking about. He doesn't have them down by dates. This, this is the first, this is the first trip to Colorado, that might be, you might be able to recall. [unclear: "Knows which you have that information" / "Which is a serious thing"].

Mike Fisher: We, we know the other ones were in March and April or some[thing].

John O'Connell: Yeah, those [unclear: "are the other cases" / "irrelevant to other cases"]. Yeah. So this would be the first one.

Mike Fisher: This is the first one. Okay. Now, before I go any further, since you are Ted's attorney, I feel, even though you're present, I should advise him of his rights. I know you've probably heard them, Ted. I know you're a pre-law student [unclear: "and whatnot" / "at one time"]. So if you would bear with me one more time.

John O'Connell: Go, go ahead.

Mike Fisher: Before we ask you any questions, you must understand your rights. You have the right to remain silent. Do you understand that, Ted? Anything you say can be used against you in court. Do you understand? That doesn't necessarily mean that it would or would not. You have the right to talk to a lawyer for advice before we ask you any questions, and to have him with you during questioning. Mr. O'Connell, your attorney, um, is present now. You understand that?

Ted Bundy: Yes.

Mike Fisher: Okay. If you [unclear: "can't afford a"] lawyer, one will be appointed to you before any questioning, if you wish. Mr. O'Connell is here. If you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer present, you still have the right to stop answering at any time. You also have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to a lawyer. Have you talked to Mr. O'Connell about [unclear: "the detective speaking to you" / "the type of problem"]?

Ted Bundy: Yes.

Mike Fisher: And do you, with him being present in the room now...

Ted Bundy: I'd like to answer questions if you would ask them now. I'd love to have [unclear: "them right"], listen to them, do the best I can [to] recall any information I, I have. I, I [unclear: "want to" / "won't"] answer questions that I'm unsure of, uh, or that [I] don't have adequate information, uh, to respond to. [unclear: "We're"] talking about [something that] happened some time ago, so I'll do whatever I can.

Mike Fisher: I want you to read that entire [unclear: "thing"], and give that to Mr. O'Connell. [07:13 to 07:52: pause while the rights form is read; only brief inaudible exchanges ("Thank you", in Whisper only).]

John O'Connell: [unclear: "Might we"] strike out this, "I do not want a lawyer at this time"?

Mike Fisher: Okay.

Ted Bundy: And I'm not [unclear: "wasting" / "waiving"] any of my rights. [I] still have all my rights [to remain] silent. I think the [unclear: "waiver" / "labor" / "belief"] of rights is, is, is, uh...

Mike Fisher: You can exercise your rights in [unclear: "any" / "a short way"]... [unclear: "Whether"] strike out the statement, "I'm willing to make a statement and answer questions"?

John O'Connell: And proceed on a question-by-question basis.

Mike Fisher: Okay.

John O'Connell: And there was our understanding of the law, that a refusal to answer any question [is] not [to] be used against [us in] court.

Mike Fisher: [unclear: "If you'd"] sign both copies, if you would. If you want, well, you can just sign one if you want. We'll have a copy. If Mr. O'Connell wants a copy of that particular document, [unclear: "then we'll have a copy of that"].

Mike Fisher: Mr. O'Connell?

John O'Connell: Yes, sir.

Mike Fisher: What is your full name?

Ted Bundy: [unclear: "Theodore"] Robert Bundy.

Ted Bundy: [Date of birth; the question is not caught] [unclear: "11/"]24/46.

Mike Fisher: [inaudible] present [unclear: "address"]?

Ted Bundy: [unclear: "Salt Lake"] County Jail.

Mike Fisher: And you understand your rights as we explained them to you, and as Mr. O'Connell explained them to you?

Ted Bundy: Yes.

Mike Fisher: Do you recall, uh, January of 1975?

Ted Bundy: Not with any specificity.

Mike Fisher: Do you recall, uh, uh, where you were on or about January 10th, 1975? That would have been a Friday.

Ted Bundy: No, I do not. I mean, it's a... I really can't remember, I think, would be a more accurate statement. I have no records. I have no records before me, no diary, no other means of [unclear: "fixing"] that date or that period.

Mike Fisher: [unclear: "Great"], okay. During January 1975, Ted, were you ever in the state of Colorado?

Ted Bundy: Possible. It's possible. I can't say for sure.

Mike Fisher: Okay. If you were in the state of Colorado, do you know where you would have [been] at that time?

Ted Bundy: Uh, in the general Rocky Mountain area. You know, I, I don't know, recall the names of the, the routes or the cities. I don't know [unclear: "hearing that well" / "that well"] to say for sure.

John O'Connell: Okay. Prior to January 19[unclear]... [unclear: "I mean, you can tell him"]. As I understand it, uh, you got, you got a gas record of some place during that period there, and [unclear: "maybe should give it to us" / "I'm sure"], that would help.

Mike Fisher: Well, I'm going to, Ted, I'm going to show you a gas record here. Uh, it's dated January 12th, 1975, and [unclear: "look at it"]. [inaudible] From the gas station in Glenwood Springs, Colorado.

Ted Bundy: You have a map of Colorado?

Mike Fisher: [unclear: "Got the whole state up"]. [About 20 seconds with no speech caught.]

Ted Bundy: [unclear: "This is the other area"]. [unclear: "Is"] Glenwood Springs on that highway that goes by? [unclear: "I'm not going to forget that"] myself. As I recall, it's like 40 miles off the main highway.

Mike Fisher: That's [unclear: "on the" / "how you get a"] freeway, [unclear: "all the way to the next step"].

Mike Fisher: Is that [unclear: "Glenwood Springs" / "what one of the Springs is"]?

Ted Bundy: Yes.

Mike Fisher: [unclear: "Do you"] recall making that purchase, Ted?

Ted Bundy: Well, not specifically. It appears to be my signature, and, uh, [I] certainly wouldn't deny that it's, it's my signature, [unclear: "my G"], but I don't remember making that purchase. I [unclear: "made"] many purchases of gasoline. I don't remember that particular purchase, though.

Mike Fisher: Do you remember, uh, uh, ever going to [unclear: "Glenwood Springs"] before January?

Ted Bundy: As a, you know, as a name, I mean, if I was to see it, I could probably say, well, [unclear: "I've not been there before"]. The name, it's not something that [unclear: "stands out"].

Mike Fisher: Have you ever been to [unclear: "Aspen"]?

Ted Bundy: I recall clearly one time years ago, first of all, when I think it was '69, I was there. And [I'm] trying to remember if, if for sure I was there at any other time, in January or last, last year. And I'm not really sure of that. I know that at some point in time that I passed by Vail, but simply because it's on the main highway. But I can't say for sure. [unclear: "I'm not even on my circuit, I think" / "I"]...

Mike Fisher: Then you don't specifically remember this, uh, gas credit card transaction I showed you here from, uh, Glenwood Springs, Colorado? You don't remember buying the gas or having your car serviced or anything? There's a service charge on [there], $3. I thought maybe that would help you.

Ted Bundy: Yeah, I, I just, uh, I can't say what it was for. I just don't. [It] doesn't stand out in my mind as being anything special.

Mike Fisher: Did you go... Well, you don't recall being in Aspen, uh, January last year, is that right?

Ted Bundy: I can't, I can't say for sure, no. I, I'm not denying it, but I can't recall.

Mike Fisher: Have you ever had any problems with relapses of [unclear: "memory, amnesia" / "memia"], or blackout spells, [anything] like that?

Ted Bundy: No.

Mike Fisher: The reason I ask is because Aspen is rather a unique place, well known [in the] country, and [it] seems a person, even going from Salt Lake City, if you'd ever traveled [unclear: "there" / "before"]...

Ted Bundy: Well, I can't remember traveling there for any specific reason.

Mike Fisher: Do you have, do you have any friends in the Colorado area, in the state of Colorado?

Ted Bundy: Um, [I don't] believe so. Not that I know of. I know people who were there, but I, I don't know. There's no one that I, that I know is there right now, for sure.

Mike Fisher: Old school friends, associates, members of your family, or anything?

Ted Bundy: There may be someone there, but I don't [unclear: "know of it"]...

Mike Fisher: Not that you're aware [of]. [About 15 seconds with no speech caught.]

Mike Fisher: Do you recall this time period at all, in January 1975? I'm specifically, uh, concerned with the dates of the 10th of January, a Friday; the 11th, a Saturday; the 12th, Sunday; 13th, Monday.

Ted Bundy: Um, as, as dates, uh, and even as a general time period, I can't recall, you know, what I may have done on a certain day or [anything] like that. Um, no, I don't.

Mike Fisher: Do you remember making any other gas purchases in the state of Colorado? Uh, unfortunately I only have the one copy, one receipt, with me presently. I have two copies [unclear: "in the case" / "to indicate"] that you gassed your car in Glenwood Springs twice in this time period, Saturday and Sunday, [the] 11th and 12th. Do you recall any of that?

Ted Bundy: [unclear: "Told three?" / "Uh-huh"]

Mike Fisher: No, just, just, I have one with me now that I've shown [you], and I have one that I do not have with me.

Ted Bundy: It's certainly possible. I had a Chevron card, and if I was looking for a station to gas up in, then I'd look for a Chevron station. But as, as to Glenwood Springs or any other location where there may have been a Chevron, a Standard station, in, uh, along [unclear: "some" / "all around"] Colorado, which I traveled, I, I [can't] remember specifically.

Mike Fisher: Have you ever skied in Aspen, or anywhere around the Aspen [unclear: "Springs" / "that was preserved"] area?

Ted Bundy: [Years] ago [I] went to Colorado and skied. I believe it was Aspen, and I, I'm pretty sure it was Aspen when I skied at [that] time. I have, I have skied [there], yes.

Mike Fisher: [unclear: "Colorado, can't recall where in Colorado?" / "You can call it up?"]

Ted Bundy: Well, I believe it was Aspen. I say it [was] years ago. It could have been... I think I get Aspen and [unclear: "they"] confused, but I believe [so].

Mike Fisher: Can you remember any names of, of hotels, bars, ski runs that you may have, uh, remembered [unclear: "here to help you"]?

Ted Bundy: No, no ski runs. I say that [was] some time ago. The place I, I stayed was in a dormitory kind of setting, but I couldn't recall any more than that. That was kind [of] [inaudible].

Ted Bundy: [unclear] I recall staying in a ski resort, [unclear: "maybe"] for a few days, taking the bus, and the bus from where I was staying to Denver to take an airplane back East. [unclear: "As to"] times and dates, um, exactly where I skied or where I stayed, I can't recall.

Mike Fisher: You can't recall specifically being in, in Aspen or [unclear: "Glenwood Springs"], Colorado?

Ted Bundy: No, no, during that time. Not, not as names. [I] could have been in those places, but I don't recall.

Mike Fisher: And you say the signature on the gas credit card looks like your, looks like it could be your signature?

Ted Bundy: Probably is. I mean, my card was not stolen [or] missing during that period, and I, I did use my credit card during that period, [unclear: "on a trip or two"] I may have taken to Colorado.

Mike Fisher: What would you attribute the trip to? Why would you take such a trip from Salt Lake?

Ted Bundy: Well, mainly to get away, uh, from Salt Lake City. I was, um... examinations, law school examinations were coming up [at that] time, and, uh, I just needed something to, a place to go to settle down. And the Colorado Rockies, [or] the Rocky Mountain area, seemed to be a nice objective at the time.

Mike Fisher: Do you recall even the name of [a] [unclear: "motel" / "hotel"], something like that, that you may have stayed [at]?

Ted Bundy: Well, it's, it's hard to separate the one or two trips I, I made to Colorado last [year]. Um, I remember having slept in my car on a couple of occasions, simply because I didn't [have] that much money. I don't recall, I don't recall [a] motel I may have stayed in. I think I stayed in one at some time, but I, during that period. It was along the road, and I couldn't give you the name or even the general location, [except] the fact that it was somewhere, you know, sometime during my trip, as best as I [unclear: "do" / "can recall"].

Mike Fisher: Which trip are you speaking about, Ted?

Ted Bundy: Well, [unclear: "a couple"], one time I [unclear: "swung to the northerly" / "slept in the north"], and I came through Denver and back. I don't remember which time that was. [unclear: "Stayed at a"] motel somewhere [around] Denver, but not anywhere near Aspen, or not that I can recall.

Mike Fisher: When you take a trip [unclear: "like this"], [unclear: "tension" / "potential"] from the exams?

Ted Bundy: [unclear: "What?" / "Yeah"]. I just sort of need[ed] to get away from Salt Lake City and, uh, [have] time to drive, think. I wasn't really concerned with where I was going, as to place to place, [or] paying a lot of attention as to just where, where I was going, or what cities I passed, or... I had no objective place in mind.

Mike Fisher: Did you go into bars while you were on that trip in January [unclear: "1970" / "1975"]?

Ted Bundy: It's possible.

Mike Fisher: Did you eat in any restaurants that you can remember?

Ted Bundy: No, I, I was... I didn't have much money, so this was not something that I, you know, I wasn't splurging or anything, so [I] didn't have a lot of money [unclear: "to believe"]. No, I didn't, didn't have enough money [for] restaurants. I remember carrying food with me.

Mike Fisher: You carried food with you?

Ted Bundy: Well, I just [unclear: "sort of"] would.

Mike Fisher: I didn't understand. You said food, right?

Ted Bundy: Food.

Mike Fisher: Okay, that's [unclear: "fine" / "what"]...

Mike Fisher: What did you do on that, on that particular trip, January [unclear: "1975" / "1977"]?

Ted Bundy: I [unclear], separating [it from] any other trip that I [unclear]... Mainly I just drove. [unclear: "I'd just"] drive off on a side road somewhere, come to a point where I didn't want to go any further, the road got too steep or something, and turned around [and went] back to the main road.

Mike Fisher: What [unclear: "main road would that be"]?

Ted Bundy: Well, the highway, whatever the highway would be, that I was on. The side roads [off the] main highway. I couldn't tell you the name of the highway, [unclear: "but I don't know the highway"].

Mike Fisher: Do you recall the, uh, unique signs, [a] motel [name]?

Ted Bundy: [unclear: "Yes"]... [About 10 seconds with no speech caught.]

Ted Bundy: [unclear: "If I'd be"] looking for a town, the only thing [that would] attract me to a town would be the possible presence of a gas station.

Mike Fisher: Okay. Uh, do you recall anybody [at] that particular gas [station], [where you] made the purchase I showed you on?

Ted Bundy: I really have no recollection of that purchase, so I don't [unclear: "know how much"].

Mike Fisher: And the purpose of your trip was just to drive, just [to] get [away]?

Ted Bundy: Yeah, just drive, relax, see some scenery, just to get away from the pressure of law exams. I wasn't really prepared for them at that time, as I recall. And I just, it's something to do, to set my mind [unclear: "at ease"], to think while I was driving, which is something I did quite a lot.

Mike Fisher: Do you, do you recall, since you've been talking to me, whether or not you slept in your car on that particular trip? [Recording ends.] ---