"Will the Real Ed Edwards Please Stand Up?": Edward Wayne Edwards on "To Tell the Truth", October 1972

Name: "Will the Real Ed Edwards Please Stand Up?": Edward Wayne Edwards on "To Tell the Truth", October 1972
Uploaded: 2012-11-25
Duration: 8 min 29 s
Description: Five years after his parole and years before his known murders, former Ten Most Wanted fugitive Ed Edwards appeared on a national game show as a reformed man promoting his autobiography.

Five years after his parole and years before his known murders, former Ten Most Wanted fugitive Ed Edwards appeared on a national game show as a reformed man promoting his autobiography.

Subject: Edward Wayne Edwards
Recorded: October 17, 1972
Runtime: 8:29

Content warning: The recording itself contains no graphic material; the page refers to the later murders of five people, including Edwards's foster son.

The Interview

In October 1972 Edward Wayne Edwards, then 39, appeared as a contestant on the syndicated game show "To Tell the Truth". Three men each said "My name is Ed Edwards"; the host read Edwards's signed statement that he had once been on the FBI's list of the ten most wanted criminals in America and was now "a respected citizen in my community", and four panellists questioned the three men to decide which one was telling the truth. Edwards was contestant number three. When he stood up as the real Ed Edwards, the host asked him how his neighbourhood had reacted when he first came out of a reformatory.

Historical Context

Edwards, born Charles Wayne Murray in Akron, Ohio, had a long record of theft and robbery. He escaped from custody in Portland, Oregon, in 1960, robbed a bank in Akron, and was placed on the FBI's Ten Most Wanted list in 1961. He was captured in Atlanta in January 1962 and served time in federal prison, including Leavenworth. He was paroled in 1967, married, and began lecturing as a reformed criminal. In 1972 he published an autobiography, "Metamorphosis of a Criminal", which he promoted on television, including on this programme and on "What's My Line?".

Circumstances of the Interview

The appearance was part of Edwards's public career as a reformed offender: the statement read on air says that a "tremendous need for communication between parents and their children" is a point he stresses in his book. In the game's format the two other contestants, both impostors, answered every question as if they were Edwards, so only the answers given by number three are his. His known murders were all still to come: in 1977 he shot Billy Lavaco and Judith Straub in Norton, Ohio; in 1980 he killed Tim Hack and Kelly Drew in Jefferson County, Wisconsin; and in 1996 he shot his foster son, Dannie Boy Edwards, in Ohio.

What the Interview Covers

Edwards says he did not have a good relationship with his parents because he "was born an illegitimate child". He names Leavenworth as the maximum-security federal prison, explains that a "fish" is a new man coming into an institution, and says his first two sentences were each two years in a reformatory and that he was about 32 when last released. Asked whether someone in prison helped him straighten out, he credits a guard at the penitentiary. After the reveal he tells the host that when he came out of the reformatory people looked up to him, and that he committed crimes "for the recognition". Two panellists voted for him; two voted for contestant number one.

What Makes the Recording Significant

This is a future convicted serial killer on national television, presenting himself as proof that a criminal can reform, five years before the first murders he later admitted. His closing remarks, that he committed crimes for recognition and that the more trouble you get into "the bigger you are in their eyes", are his own words on what drove him. Nearly four decades later he pleaded guilty to all five murders and was sentenced to death for the last of them.

Archival Importance

It is the earliest known footage of Edwards speaking, almost forty years before his arrest in 2009.

Important Caveats

Everything Edwards says about his past, his rehabilitation and the guard who helped him is his own account, given while promoting his book. The answer "later they found out it wasn't me", about the double murder mentioned in his statement, was given by contestant number one, an impostor, not by Edwards; the 1972 statement's "double murder" refers to an earlier investigation that is not identified here and is not the 1977 Ohio killings. The video was uploaded by John Cameron, who has argued that Edwards committed many other crimes, including the Zodiac killings; those claims are unproven, widely disputed, and are not repeated here. Edwards's convictions cover five victims. The exact air date has not been verified. Two impostors and four panellists also speak; one panellist's name is not clearly heard and is not given.

Host: Number one, what is your name, please?

Contestant Number One: My name is Ed Edwards.

Host: Number two.

Contestant Number Two: My name is Ed Edwards.

Host: Number three.

Edward Edwards: My name is Ed Edwards.

Host , Reading Edwards'S Affidavit: And here is the extraordinary story of Ed Edwards. I think you'll find it profitable. It says: "I, Ed Edwards, was once on the FBI's list of the ten most wanted criminals in America. Now I am a respected citizen in my community. Here's the story of my dramatic turnabout. As a young boy, I felt that the only way I could gain any recognition was to steal. Eventually I committed armed robberies, impersonated a federal officer, and was sought for questioning about a double murder. I spent time in the federal penitentiaries in Leavenworth and Lewisburg. It was at the latter prison that I started vocational training and very slowly began to realize that I could still be somebody and return to my rightful and legal place in society. There is a tremendous need for communication between parents and their children. I stress this point in my book, which is titled 'Metamorphosis of a Criminal'." Signed, Ed Edwards.

Host: And Gene Rayburn, we'll go down to you for a start.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: Thank you, Gary. Number three, from what Gary just read here, do we infer that you did not have a good relationship with your parents?

Edward Edwards: Uh, this is true.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: Mm-hmm. In what way? Number three, in communications, as you indicated?

Edward Edwards: Uh, I was born an illegitimate child, so I never had a real mother to speak of.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: Mm-hmm. Number two, what vocation did you study in prison?

Contestant Number Two: Actually, it was for remodeling of houses.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: And is that your business today, number two?

Contestant Number Two: Yes, it is, in addition to writing.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: Yeah. Number one, what is your business today?

Contestant Number One: My business today is writing and lecturing.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: Yes. And what vocation did you learn? Did you learn writing while you were in prison?

Contestant Number One: History.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: History? You studied history?

Contestant Number One: Yes.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: History of the world? General history?

Contestant Number One: General history.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: Yeah. Number two, in prison parlance, what is a screw?

Contestant Number Two: He's, um, a hack, a bull. He's a guard.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: And number three, in prison parlance, what is a bull? No, uh, who is the publisher, number three, of your book?

Edward Edwards: [unclear: "Heart" / "Hart"] Publishing Company.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: Who?

Edward Edwards: [unclear: "Heart" / "Hart"] Publishing Company.

Host: And that takes us, please, to Kitty.

Panellist: Number one, did you commit these double murders, or were you just wanted for questioning?

Contestant Number One: I was wanted for questioning, but later they found out it wasn't me.

Panellist: And number two, why were you on the ten most wanted list, then?

Contestant Number Two: I guess a lot of the FBI men sat around, took a vote, and I won.

Panellist: Number three, what is considered the maximum security prison in America?

Edward Edwards: Uh, your, uh, uh, Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary.

Panellist: Uh, number one, how did you finally manage to rehabilitate yourself, and how old were you?

Contestant Number One: After I got out of prison.

Panellist: How old were you?

Contestant Number One: Forty-five.

Panellist: Number two, you stayed in prison till you were forty-five years old?

Contestant Number Two: No, I wasn't in prison [unclear: "long, I was there" / omitted] until I was thirty-six.

Panellist: Oh. And number three, did you get a proper degree from your, uh, studies in prison?

Edward Edwards: Yes, I did.

Panellist: Number two, we didn't find out what you studied in prison.

Contestant Number Two: Yes, as I mentioned before, to a degree, it had to do with building and construction.

Panellist: Number three, what did you study?

Edward Edwards: Uh...

Host: Hey, the buzzer. [unclear: "Now we're going to go" / "Why don't we go"] to Allan.

Panellist: Uh, number three, what is a fish?

Edward Edwards: Uh, it's, um, uh, a new man coming into the institution.

Panellist: Number two, what's a fish?

Contestant Number Two: An easy mark.

Panellist: Number one?

Contestant Number One: A new man coming in.

Panellist: Um, and number one, is it common that a prisoner would tend to have a knife of some kind in prison?

Contestant Number One: No, it's not common, but there are quite a few around.

Panellist: Mm-hmm. Uh, and number three, what was your first term? Your prison term? How long was your first sentence, I mean?

Edward Edwards: Uh, my first sentence was, uh, in a reformatory for two years.

Panellist: I see. And your second sentence?

Edward Edwards: I was also in a reformatory for, uh, two years.

Panellist: I see. How old were you when you got out of prison?

Edward Edwards: Uh, the last time I was released, I was, um, about thirty-two.

Panellist: The last time you...

Host: And it takes us to [unclear: "Peg" / "pay"].

Panellist: Uh, number two, do reformatories help, try to help kids, or are they just in there to do the time and get out?

Contestant Number Two: They're just in there to do the time and get out.

Panellist: And number three, who was it in prison, in what prison, did somebody in prison help you to get straightened out? I mean, or did you do it yourself?

Edward Edwards: Uh, yes. I met a man, uh, who was a guard at the, uh, penitentiary, and he's the one that, uh, helped me to rehabilitate.

Panellist: Thank you. Uh, number one, can you make a good living writing and, uh, lecturing now?

Contestant Number One: Yes, I have been doing very well.

Panellist: Thank you. Um, how old were you when you first went to the can, number one? I mean, the jail.

Contestant Number One: Well, I was first in a reformatory, but actually in jail I was thirty.

Panellist: Thank you. Number two, was...

Host: There goes the bell, and that means no more questions. Mark your ballots as you will, without consulting amongst yourselves. The audience and I will take a look at our friends over here at number one, number two and number three. Has everybody got their ballot marked?

Panellist Gene Rayburn: No, I haven't got my ballot marked, Gary.

Host: Well, that's too bad, 'cause you've got to start.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: I've got to start. I tell you what I'm going to do, Gary.

Host: Yep.

Panellist Gene Rayburn: It's just like the producers of this show to get a young, all-American-looking boy like number three with a prison record, the most unlikely-looking one up there, and that's why I voted for him.

Host: All righty, and you've got [unclear: "a three showing" / "a three. Show"], and then we're going to go to Kitty.

Panellist: Well, I agree with you, and I think number two is marvelous.

Host: Oh.

Panellist: What? I voted for number one.

Host: Nice. Perfect. Nothing wrong with voting for number one, nice fellow. Allan?

Panellist: I found that number two did not know what a fish is. A fish, in fact, is a new man in prison, but both one and three knew that. However, number three said a guard helped him rehabilitate himself, and number one said he rehabilitated himself once he got out, and that sounds closer to reality to me, so I voted for number one.

Host: A pair of ones and a three, and [unclear: "Peg" / "a ten" / "B"].

Panellist: Well, number two said it was practically the same thing as a new man, and I think number two looks terrific to be a criminal. He looks so tough. But I always feel, my dear, that, still, after all, you wouldn't get fooled by somebody like number two, but number three you'd trust with your life, so I voted for him.

Host: By a variety of logics, we have arrived at the following conclusion: a pair of [unclear: "twos" (both machine readings) / "threes" (the votes as cast)] on each end. The votes are all in. Will the real Ed Edwards please stand up?

Host: Let's find out, Ed, about your friends. Number one, sir, what is your real name, please, and what do you do?

Contestant Number One: My name is [unclear: "Mervyn" / "Marvin"] Spritz. I am the president of the Maryland Council of the Jewish National Fund.

Host: And does a great job of playing George Raft, too.

Unidentified Speaker: [unclear: "That is what he wants to do" / "No, this when he wants to"].

Host: Number two, please, tell us about yourself.

Contestant Number Two: [unclear: "My name is" / "The name is"] Rick Klein. I'm a self-defense teacher, and I also do stunt work.

Host: Yes, sir. [applause]

Host: [unclear: "Ed" / "Hey"], there's one important point. You and I were chatting backstage, and I asked you what was the reaction in your neighborhood when you came out of the reformatory the first time. Uh, were you put down by your fellow citizens, or did they look up to you?

Edward Edwards: Uh, no. When I was released from the reformatory, uh, they looked up to me, and this, uh, motivated me to go on to bigger things, because this is why I was out there committing the crime, was for the recognition.

Host: Mm-hmm.

Edward Edwards: And this happens because a lot of [unclear: "things" / omitted], people think it's a big-shot thing to do.

Host: Huh.

Edward Edwards: Uh, yes. This is the, uh, they, the more trouble you get into, the bigger you are in their eyes.

Host: Well, I want to tell you, you look like a pretty big man from over here. And thank you very much for being with us, Mr. Edwards, and thank you, gentlemen, also. ---