RARE PHONE INTERVIEW WITH JOHN WAYNE GACY

ABOUT THE INTERVIEW

Here is the whole story. I was hired to play drums for a punk rock band called Bloody Mess and the Scabs in the early 90's. Bloody Mess was the original band to use custom serial killer art on record covers. I was at Bloody's house one day and noticed he had some Gacy oil paintings on his wall. I was blown away and asked if he could talk to Gacy and get me one. He did one better, he talked to gacy and told him I had a recording studio and Gacy was interested in making a deal.

I got a collect call from Menard prison in Chester Illinois and to my shock it was John Wayne Gacy. The deal Gacy proposed to me was I would record an interview with him, using pre-made questions that Gacy drafted himself, and in return I would get a whole stack of Gacy oil paintings. The recording was to be used on a 900 telephone line that people could call and pay to hear Gacy talk about his case. The money would be routed to Gacy through his relatives. I accepted the deal and an invitation to visit Gacy to hammer out all the details.

I went to visit gacy in the late spring of 1993. The Mississippi river was at a record flood stage and the bottom 1/2 of the prison was under water. Fortunately, death row was on the top 1/2 but the air conditioning was out which made the visit very uncomfortable as it was a very hot day.

I was led into one of the visiting rooms, no glass in between like on TV, just me and him sitting there chatting. He pulled out a pack of prison made "Pyramid" cigarettes and gave them to me. How he knew I smoked I had no idea.

My first impression of the guy was that he was very friendly, un-intimidating, and an all around nice old man, but as the day wore on, he got more and more odd..even controlling. He brought this big folder with all sorts of old bank statements to show me. He wanted to show me how rich he was? I have no idea. I thought that visiting hours were only a few hours, but I was stuck in there all friggin day!

I got to my home studio and waited for the call, then hit "record" and proceeded to ask all the pre-made questions that he wanted me to, then record his answers.

A week later, I get a knock on the door. It was an agent from the Illinois Att general's office. He asked me if I would give him a copy of the tape I made to be used against Gacy for attempting to make money from his crime in prison. They knew all about it, knew who I was, and knew about Gacy's 900 telephone recording business plans. I complied and gave them a copy and never heard from the state of Illinois again.

This tape had been collecting dust for all these years, so I decided to post it on youtube.

You have my permission to print the whole story if you like, and transcribe the interview how you see fit.

But remember, these are questions he made himself, so he had pre-made answers as well. Don't be fooled by this interview, he is guilty as hell.

Thanks,

Kenny Hackney

KEN HACKNEY PHONE INTERVIEW WITH JOHN WAYNE GACY PART ONE

(Transcription)

*Narrator: The Following is an actual recording of an interview with John Wayne Gacy recorded by Ken Hackney in 1993.

*Automated Female Operator: This is a consolidated communications automated operator with a collect call from Menard Correctional Center inmate...

*John Wayne Gacy: John Wayne Gacy

*Automated Female Operator: This call is subject to being recorded. Hang up to decline the call. To accept the call dial 3 or clearly say ‘Yes I Accept’ at the tone.

…Ken Hackney dials 3...

*Automated Female Operator: Subject to being monitored and recorded.

*Narrator: Now, the unreleased interview with John Wayne Gacy.

*Ken Hackney: People say that you confessed to the crime, then later recanted... is this true??

*John Wayne Gacy: That is what has been said in the media and at the trial. To this day nobody has produced one.

There is no written confession, there is no tape recorded confession, there is no police stenographer typed confession.

It was in my appeal, and the court refused to look at it and the state refused to answer it.

If they had nothin’ to hide I can’t understand why they can’t produce one.

*K.H.: Okay, then if your not guilty, why did you go with an insanity defense?

*J.W.G.: I did, and was totally against it. But we... but was deceived. The only plea that I ever entered was on January 10th of 1979 when I entered a plead of not-guilty.

*K.H.: But what about the evidence in the case? You can’t deny that the bodies were found buried in your house!

*J.W.G.: Yes that’s true but the house wasn’t a home. Like what you... you know, what you go to a home to each night.

The Summerdale house is rented to PDM contractors. There was 12 keys out to it. But that was never allowed to come out at the trial... as it would put doubt in the states theory. They didn’t want anybody to know that peoplehad keys to the house. Plus the fact that I wasn’t always at the house, so others used it just as much…and again that wasn’t brought out at the trial as it didn’t fit with the states theory of the case that I committed all the crime.

*K.H.: Okay then what about the smell in your house? Surely you must have noticed a smell!?

*J.W.G.: There was no smell. Over the year's time other than when it rained, the musty odour was present. People were in and out of that house daily for years. And other than when it rained, there was no odour and certainly not like what some of the books said. That’s all fantasy. If that odour was there somebody would have noticed it sooner.

*K.H.: Okay then, the police were at your house before your arrest... and what did they smell when they were at your house?

*J.W.G.: Well apparently nothing as of December 13, 1978. There was 20 trained police officers came to the house, with a warrant... searched the house, and they went down in the crawlspace…while I was being held at the jail in Des Plaines, Illinois. They never took anything from the crawlspace other than bringing up lime into the house. There also were no mounds of dirt like what is mentioned in books.

*K.H.: Okay, you sold a car to your employee Michael Rossi that belonged to one of the victims, John Szyc... yet you deny this..

*J.W.G.: That’s true...this came out at trial too...yet it’s not true and even the state knew this and covered it up.

The Bureau of Scientific Services in Maywood, Illinois on March 27, 1979...a year before the trial…this report showed that the hand writing samples were taken from me from John Szyc, the victim, and, from Michael Rossi...and they were compared to the motor vehicle title R1209194 and the other questionable vehicle transfer papers. The result of the findings was that all the names were forged by Michael Rossi, as it was all done in his handwriting...yet at trial, even knowing this, the state told the jury that, John Wayne Gacy did this. My defense attorney never objected to it because they thought it didn’t harm my case.

*K.H.: You claim that you were not even in Illinois when 16 of the victims went missing. Why was this not brought out in trial?

*J.W.G.: Because my trial attorney’s never did their job to investigate my claim, and it wasn’t until...we took over the investigation on my own that we learned of this. Even the F.B.I. joined in...in 1984 with their reasoning being that they wanted to know if others in other states disappeared or were murdered while I was in those states. The results shows that during the time of the victims disappearances in Chicago...I wasn’t even in Chicago.

One judge said, so what if he was out of town for 16 of them, there are still 17 others. That alone should have raised some doubt.

*K.H.: Okay, you said that there were 12 keys out to the Summerdale house and yet this was not mentioned at your trial...why do you think this is?

*J.W.G.: It wasn’t in the states best interest to let the jury know, they said it would raise doubt that John Gacy acted alone. The defense attorneys didn’t bring it out because it didn’t have...it didn’t go along with their insanity defense, showing others were involved.

The entire defenses theory was to leave it stand where it was, which I never understood to begin with.

*K.H.: Didn’t you take some sort of test that you willingly submitted to?

*J.W.G.: Yes, in the Cook County Jail I was given 3 and a half hours of truth serum...Sodium Amatol...the maximum amount you can give...while the results again are non admissible in court.

The results were positive, one showing I had no knowledge of about 28 of the victims...and that the 5 I had information about was not about their death.

*K.H.: John, in book and television interviews...it’s been said that bodies found in your garage were shown and even marked by you with a can of spray paint.

*J.W.G.: Yes I marked the spot in the garage...when I was back at the house on December 22. They had asked me with all of the rebuilding of the garage, which was the last area of concrete...in the last area where the concrete was poured. And they handed me an orange spray can and I put an ‘X’..that’s it! An ‘X’ over the spot in the corner of the garage where I thought the last area was poured. Now all of a sudden Kunkle claims that I not only drew an ‘X’, but I put an ‘O’ on top of it where the head was and made the ‘X’ look like it was a stick figure...and that’s not true.

Somebody else must have taken the can after I had left the garage.

*K.H.: Well given all of this standing evidence against you, don’t you think it’s going to be difficult trying to get the public to believe you?

*J.W.G.: I’m not interested in what the public thinks. My fight is in the courts. And while I have been fighting with the appeal it has been an uphill battle because I am an unpopular cause. Too much public pressure, too much politics. To give me a hearing so that I can prove that the state withheld evidence favourable to me, that the identifications of some of the victims was wrong, and that my attorney was more concerned about book rights and how sensationally more the case could get the higher the value of the book.

Keep in mind the public has been brainwashed, and nearly 80% of what is known about me is fantasy and self serving theories of the state. But overall, I am an embarrassment of the justice system because if I am right then they are wrong and the killers are still out there. For political reasons it would be better that I drop dead, then they could all say what a great job they’ve done, and nobody else would be pushing for the truth to come out.

**END OF PART 1**

KEN HACKNEY PHONE INTERVIEW WITH JOHN WAYNE GACY PART TWO

(Transcription)

*J.W.G.: If you're talking about the Summerdale house and the bodies found there, we feel that some of them died of drug overdose, then buried alive. Trouble is the state never did toxicology on the victims, as they wouldn’t fit with their theory that they were all strangled. Even Dr. Stein say that the 13 died of suffocation and 10 were left undetermined, which leads me to believe that there’s...that they were not killed the way the state wants you to believe.

*K.H.: So in your opinion none of the victims had it coming to them?

*J.W.G.: How would I know about that? I don’t think anyone has it coming to them. Any life is worth too much. We have our theories as to what happened, but I can only speculate.

*K.H.: Okay then, can you speculate as to what circumstances might have led to any of the murders?

*J.W.G.: Well first off I disagree with the state theory. As I think all they looked for was the easy way out and making it a sexual crime only was used to build up public pressure and distort the fact. The fact that a body is nude doesn’t mean that it was molested. Sometimes it’s done just to hide the identification, which I think is the reason that they were found that way.

Our investigation showed that they were not…that some of them were not gay or hustlers. So the theory that they were looking for sex or were sexually doesn’t hold water. Our findings show more were involved in drugs, yet no toxicology was done on any of them. The runaways could have met with males selling males. We think it was a sex/drug ring.

*K.H.: Do you think it’s possible that you could have murdered anyone while in perhaps an altered state of mind and just not remembered?

*J.W.G.: No I don’t think that’s possible. I think it…after 14 years under truth serum had I committed the crime I would have known it. There’s got to be something that would…would click in my mind. I’ve had photo’s of 21 of the victims and I’ve looked at them all over the years here and I’ve never recognized anyone of them.

*K.H.: John is it true that you hired all teenage boys to work for you in your company?

*J.W.G.: No. Of all the people who worked for PDM since most of it was sub contracted work, they were all young tradesmen. This is what the state would like for you to believe. But we have very little use for inexperienced teenagers. So they were mostly used for summer...for fillers. It doesn’t make sense to use a tradesman to do cleanup work on a job when your paying a tradesman $15 an hour and you can hire a young man or boy at say $7 or $8 an hour to sweep up after the contractors outta there.

*K.H.: Did you ever murder anyone after you had sex with them because of some guilt or sexual repression you felt or perhaps you were afraid they might expose your sexual preference…is this possible??

*J.W.G.: That’s another fallacy theory of the state. To my knowledge anybody that I’ve ever had sex with, male or female, are still alive. There wasn’t…I would have no reason, and most people that knew me knew that I was bisexual and open minded and very liberal. Any sex that I had was with consenting males or females.

*K.H.: Okay before we wrap this up is there anything you’d like to add or say to conclude this interview John? Go right ahead.

*J.W.G.:  Over the past 14 years, I, John Wayne Gacy have been appealing my conviction for the murder of 33 young men and boys. And I’ve been sentenced to 12 death sentences and 21 natural life’s. Yet during that time on death row, over 25,000 people have written me with questions after reading the books, chapters, and articles, and the media’s slandered accounts on me. Not to mention the fantasy movie ‘To Catch A Killer’. There are 11 hardbound books, 39 other full chapters on me, 1 off Broadway play, 2 screenplays, 1 movie, 5 songs, plus over 5,000 articles which my name is mentioned in. And yet not one of these have taken the time to actually talk to me. Their research is all bogus.

The reader had been left with a lot of unanswered questions and like when you're putting together a puzzle, if you don’t have the right pieces there not going to fit together. And that’s what the person is left with, the general public. Your gonna have public believe 50% of what is said is true. And in my case it is just the opposite. Nearly 80% of what is known about me is fantasy. And it’s primarily because of no integrity in the writing of what was done, no research done in the past. And according to the state in the 6 year period John Wayne Gacy stalked the streets of Chicago and suburbs, I was supposed to have kidnapped people at gunpoint or manipulated young men and boys to come to the Summerdale house on the pretext of a job. According to the state, once they were in the house they were slipped and tricked in the handcuffs, forced to have sex, beaten and tortured and all killed by ligature strangulation and buried. 27 of them were supposed to be found under the crawlspace, 2 others found on the property, and 4 additional ones were given to me from the Des Plaines River.

According to the states version of the case, this went back to…then I went back to running my construction business during the 6 years working 7 days a week, 12-14 hours a day. The state wants you to believe this fantasy theory based on a scenario of the above, and they could not tell anybody or they were beaten…they could not blackmail me. And that simply…it doesn’t hold water. The fact’s don’t match the fantasy! And it raises the doubt who John Gacy really is…the 34th victim.

*K.H.: Okay, very good. Especially toward the end.

*J.W.G.: Yeah the first part was all screwed up that’s why…if you want some of them done over, pick out the ones you think you should…you want done over and then I will do those over.

*K.H.: Well we can do that or just record the whole interview over again if you like?

*J.W.G.: See I started getting more natural rather…see that’s what’s hard, when I asked myself my own questions.

*K.H.: Well yeah it’s easier if you know what the questions are gonna be…we can do it over if you like?

*J.W.G.: First of all I got less than 7 minutes left on this phone line…what I can see…what you can do is to…you can check…you can put yourself together and then I will call you on another day and you can in…or I could call you back at 6 or 6:30 at night?! Why don’t I call you back at 6 o’clock then I can get this all outta the way in one day.

*K.H.: Yeah we can do that!

*J.W.G.: When…what time…are you gonna be there at 6?

*K.H.: Yeah, 6 o’clock is alright.

*J.W.G.: Just record the whole thing.

*K.H.: Yeah that would make sense. We could have several copies to choose from.

*J.W.G.: Just that would be the better way of handling that cause we’ve only got about….*BEEP*

(call ends and music fades out)

***THE END***