Two Hollywood, Florida detectives drove to a Wisconsin prison on April 17, 1992 and turned on a tape recorder. Jeffrey Dahmer had been in custody nine months by then, sentenced, and the case they wanted to ask him about was their own: an unsolved killing in their jurisdiction, and the stretch of his life that put him in south Florida. He had gone there after the Army discharged him six months early, worked at a sandwich shop on Miami Beach, and slept on the sand for a while when the money ran out. That is the ground the interview covers.
What is filed here is not just their transcript. It arrives wrapped in FBI paperwork: cover sheets on the Bureau's FD-302 form, file number 7-MW-26057, logging a copy of a document the FBI did not make. One of those sheets carries an August 1992 date, which is not a second interview but the day the Bureau serialized its own copy of this same statement into the Milwaukee case file. That copy is on its own page in this archive with the rest of file 7-MW-26057.
Forty-six pages, and the useful thing about a document like this is as much who sent what to whom as what was said in the room.
Two agencies made this bundle and the layers are the point of it. The outer document is FBI paperwork, cover sheets on the Bureau's FD-302 form carrying file number 7-MW-26057, and their only function is to log the movement of a copy. The thing being moved is not federal at all: it is a transcript of a taped statement taken by detectives of the Hollywood Police Department in Florida. Neither layer is a court record, whatever the filename on the scan circulating online says, and there is no judge, no hearing and no oath anywhere in it.
Dahmer answered these questions in an interview room at the Columbia Correctional Facility in Portage, Wisconsin on April 17, 1992, nine months after his arrest and well after sentencing, with a tape running and his agreement on the record. He was not confessing to anything here. Two Florida detectives had driven up because an unsolved killing in their jurisdiction had been linked to him by circumstance, and what they wanted was the period he spent in south Florida after the Army discharged him: the sandwich shop on Miami Beach, the weeks sleeping on the sand, who he knew and where he went.
Records of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and of a municipal police department are both government works, released as public records, so there is no copyright in either layer and nothing to ask permission for. This is the cleanest rights position of anything in the archive, and it is the reason a document like this can be published entire rather than quoted around.
Roughly a quarter of the lines came off the scan damaged, and the statement was typed in capitals from beginning to end, which is unreadable at length on a screen. We set it in sentence case, put the Q and A labels back where the scanner had destroyed them into Ae, Aa, 4. and Bh., closed up the letters it had scattered inside words, and repaired 462 misread words in the narrow case where exactly one real word could fit. Hundreds of mangled words are still on the page because two words could fit and choosing between them would be writing the document rather than reading it. No capitalized word was touched at all, on the principle that a name the dictionary does not know is still a name.
Seven pages are described rather than printed: 1 to 3 and 43 to 46, the Bureau's own routing and cover sheets, which scanned as character noise rather than words. What they carry is set out in the paragraphs above, taken from their legible fields and the file's provenance record. The August 1992 date on one of them is the Bureau's serial stamp, and the copy it belongs to is printed in full on the page for FBI file 7-MW-26057. That copy has no speaker labels, because the scan behind it destroyed them, but it recovers words this one lost, and the two are meant to be read together: this page tells you who is speaking, the other sometimes tells you more clearly what was said. The same file also holds the Bureau's own interview reports from August 1992, an agent's summaries rather than transcripts, which is a different kind of document and is labeled as one there.
PAGE 4 OF 46
The following will be a taped interview, the date cofnc to be 4- 17-92 and it's golwg to be at 1330 hours. This interview is going to. Be taken from Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer, 5-21-60, he is presently thcarcerated at the Columbia correctional facili Wisconsin, jone. Present at this time ace qc comm of sciwalncer f.b.I, office.
Q. As I told ou earlier Jeffrey my main purposes of coming up here was to speak to you about your activities after you were discharged from the service ant upon your arrival into south Florida. Basically what I would like tg cover, whew did you first arrive in south Florida akd how you get there?
A. OK, I was discharged six months early from the,.the service for wh, drinking to much..uh, I bidh't want to be discharged ebrrly but they, they did. 50 when I arrived in 2 think it was South Carolina from Germany they..they processed me out akd told me that they'd give he a plane ticket td anywhere in the United States that I wanted to co. And I didn't want bedn't want to go home right away because bidh't frel comfortable explaining to my folks way I was out six months early, I decided tha? Miami, Florida would be a nice warm place ta gq, they flew me down there. I stayed, I arrived I think at the of..the very end of march I thine. March of what year?
Q. Of uh, eighty.., sighty one I think, i'm met real sure.
Q. Ang you flew into where, miamt or fi.
A. Miamt. Got hotel fora weer right on the coast, richt in view;
A. The ocean.
Q. ou renember the wame of it? Al along collins avenue. Wo I don't remember the name of thad hotel.,
Q. It awd oh collins avenue in Miami Beach?
A. On collins avenue in Miami Beach, stayed there a weee ended up ruhming buy of money, didw't think very well ahead, didn't plan ahead very well, and so for afout a month or wo months had ta live most qf the days sleep ow the..sleep under the literally under the mangroves on the Beach and take a shower once or twice a weee im hotel rum. finally got a jon after abcut two months there in Sunshine sub...
Q. Where was that? The Sunshine sets? 2134 reporting off. zt ai
PAGE 5 OF 46
Anything like that no.
Q. You didn't keep anything ron your Army days?
A. Ho boots, nothing..
Q. what was your bank account at?
A. The highest it was gut was abcut uh..4 little over a thousand,
Q. ox, a thousand. And what bank ix you remember?)
A. The hank that was right new to the sub shop and I dow't know the whe of that anymore. Bot I was working uh..every day, almost every day, once ina while i'd get one day off on the weekend. I'd be working ten, twelve shift..uh, days from morning fo wight... And ueh..dldn't leave any tine frame recreation at add.
Q. Do you remember your supervisors
A. Yeah, he was uh., let's see...Ken, Ken houleb I thine his wame we.
Q. What was big last name?
A. houleb I thiwk, Ken houleb,
Q. About? How old was
A. Uh he was about 65 when I was down thepe.
Q.
A. yelh. Family owned business.. Do ou) remember any of our co-workers that you worked with?
A. Yeah there was this one lady about a few years older than me came from England, akd she was working there even before it was..and dh we got along pretty well, had a little friendship, talked..awd she was always worried about being discovered, it heing discovered that she dpich't have green card though. 80 she was always worrying about that.
Q. Do you remember her name?, aa them name I dow't remember no,
Q. How old was she? Au probably around 25...I engw she saic she was from England, she heap an English accent.
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Complaint 8156073 sane al You're ooxly means of transportation at the time was just,. Public?
Q. Bus, that's it..
A. Public transportation,
Q. Anb uh lee I said I was woreing ten, twelve hours a day west?
A. The time bion't have much recreation time. Uh..anb ih..leris see what else? The only time I really went to any halls was the omni mall that's in cowrtown Miami.
A. Right.; aa wert there gnce. And locked around. One thing that struck me about that fall was that..most of the jewelry stores here iw Wisconsin, you ehow, the highest fried jewelry you'll see on display is maybe 5000 or something like that. Down there I remember seeing this 250,000 dollar uh, buay broach right on display right in the mall.
Q. tt was impressive?
A. Yeah you dor't sen things like that uf here. Hut I just warred around. Other than that, that was about all I dib..when taking the bus, other than if being a warm climate and everything, was that the specific reason you chose to co down to
A. That was the cnly reason.
Q. ou) had never been there before?
A. Never been there before
Q. you gave any friends or family staying dow there?.
A. Horody
Q. What about in your free time, what din you oo in your pree tine down there? Ay walk along the Beach along collins avenue. Uh..drink, too much, I to deine in excessive apter work because when I didh't have the dh, the aparthent, I.-1 would hate going back to the Beach to sleep cn the Beach and i'd stay drinking till maybe 3 in the morning and this ghe time I got mugged. The guy took a hundred from me.
Q. Did ou report it to the police?
A. No. Another time I rememeer going back tg the belch there wo5.., going back to the flace where had you know my sleeping area set trans. Sertal: 2134 reporting off. Quae tbic. Sertal; 6038 date: supery. Ih reviewer:
PAGE 7 OF 46
Up and there were some other ins there and they, I almost got knifed gause they didn't know who it was. They thought I was trying td ore them or something.. Another time I tripped over an opossum in the hiddle the hight. Scared the hell out of he.
Q. lucky you didn't get bit
A. Yeah.
Q. On your free time you soctalize with anyebodyt go tg any clubs?
A. just that lady. Just that lady, the English lady.
A. Uh hi.
Q. What about clubs?
A. I went, I went into sohe of the bars, the laal bars around there.
A. Ua huh.; ae did there ever come a time that you moved from the bimine foon, the bimine apartment? To someplace further north?
A. Uh huh, fo ghio. That was in september.
Q. Oh OK, let's back up then. While you're still in Florida. Did ever shove into the north Miami Beach
A. The oly place I ever had any residence was himini bar, that was the oly.place where I was at. hon do you spell that?) I think it's
A. It was about 400 a month. Did you ever travel within the state of Florida? He went to Fort lauderdale once weth that girl's boyfriend, he came the way over from europe trying to re-establish a relationship with her,
Q. Do du remember his whe I bon't remember his hame they get along too well. 2134 reporting off, a ae
PAGE 8 OF 46
Q. Is he English also?
A. Uh huh. And he rad a car. One time we all packed into the and went up to Fort lauderdale and had cohiple urges at sgme of the bars there and uh, went back hohe that was it, te what kind of car did he
A. I doh't some old four don like aa dodge, some old undescript, I wouldn't even remember i'm just guessing.
Q. Ricght....what apout while you were down there oid you ever have seer medical attention? Did ever get hurt of sick enough that needed megigal attention ina hospital?
A. Well the closest I came to doing that was the first week I was there I drank a whole bottle of that grasshopper, vh..liquor, you know liquor and I got sick asa dog on that and called the hotel doctor.
Q. Din he come to help.
Q. you remember hers wame? Aa ho I don't. He what about wedication, doi you have to, any prescribed medication?
A. No.
Q. Dib you ever take up residency with another person that may have had an apartment or home?
A. Never.
Q. ou pretty much kept to yourself?
A. Uh huh. Too busy working.. Gq. And you say at that time you also were having a problem with alcohol?.
A. Uh hue. That's stems from..; a. All of the excess yeah.
Q. was that every day?) Trans sertal: 2134 reporting off, re sertal: date: superv approy serial:
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Dffense classification: cide: he hot every DA cause i'd have to work but ow the weekends and it cot worse towards the end because I ended up drinking on my bank account. And that's why I moved back too.,
Q. would yotl have fo drink more and more tt get the same high?) Al I, I cow hold ar awful lot of liquor, it tsres aw awful lot to get ne passed drunk so yeah, I have a big tolerance for alcohol, tolerance, yebh, see I don't, yoo It a cheap date. when you're consuming large amounts of alcohol, do you recall what ron po? Do you rave control of your faculties?
A. of the tihe I The gwen time that I was robbed don't remember walking back to the..place where you how, lying on the front
A. The store missthg hy wallet. That time I don't renember.,. Oe what was your hair length at that time when you go discharged from the service, when you lived in Florida?
Q. Like this.
Q. Braout the way it ts row?.
A. Th huh. Never had it any longer than this. Oe sometime last year on tho sepaerte occasions hab independent witnesses that came forward and came up to Hollywood police deplethenl to meet with Sand bh..ohe..
A. I rememeer lying I a hotel room that was gen of the times I had 3 hotel room and I remember seeing on the news that, that you hbo, missing boy adam walsh and that was the same time the presided? Was shot around that time remember both those stories.
Q. right, reagan was shot in march of
A. Yeah, right..yep.
Q. Sq this owe gentleman came down to Florida from out of state, you enow, he lived in Hollywood and the other gentleman still lives mhere. And I guess they were following your case, from the point of july of last ear of si...
A. DA bull.
Q. Thtil the present. ard the one gentleman said that he an encounter there with you. Did you ever go uf to the Hollywood male?
A. The only mall I went to was the omni mall that one trem.
PAGE 10 OF 46
Gppense classification: umicide
Q. Hever went, wouldn't even ehow where to find the Hollywood mall.
A. I aseed this gentleman I said what was the encounter that Bre speaking about? Bhd he said hell I was qh, at this store the uh, the pefsow that he believed to be you...
A. Uh huh.
Q. Cbrne uf to him and tried to pick him uf, had conversation, asked him isw'? It a beautiful day outside and started following this gentleman, he got a little leary and he continued tc walk through the kald followed him and eventually be lost ou somewhere inside the sears mall.
A. hie. Cg. That's my purpose for being here. You ay ho vine here hever in sears? Of ever in Hollywood, Florida? Oe absolutely hot bnd I wasn't, I have the..a place to go back with anyone where it felt comfortable with anyway, I bpememeber sitting after rore ghe hight rleat cn collive avenue and there was this guy from canada and with..he tried to flick he uf.. Which is a, switch.-sut 1 diontt, didn't want anything to do with hi cause my a place was a mess ahd I just didn't feel like going back. ho tit Wasn't into picking uf people or starting relationships with aryohe cn then, 7
Q. Them this gentleman that came in from out of state had spokes to
A. He also after sebring acggounts of you oh the news and also in the newspaper he brought dow this newspaper from Alabama with him..and he saio that he remembered that he parked his vehicle in the parking lot bang he was approaching the spore, he saw some child apparently hating problem with kale.
A. Uh hua.
Q. Ee besceibed the male you erow, similar to you..and the gohe..
A. Coincident..
Q. Excuse me? Ae
A. And uh, the thing that stuck out in his mird is that here it was the midoule july and this gentleman was wearing arm fatigue, fe what year was this supposed ti be? 2124 reporting off. Ce es
PAGE 11 OF 46
Complaint 81-56073 co
Q. when you were down there,
Q. Ho, hot Alabama. Hollywood, Florida. He came dow from Alabama to tell me abuut this incident while he was living Hollywood, Florida.
Q. oh zt see. Alright.
A. And he said that the boy was saylwg I pon't want to go, I doh't waht to "go" and this man was struggling with him and eventually threw him into a vehicle,
A. Uh huh. van anb the vehicle took off. I saib did you see this gentleman's face hbo everything?" All he sat saw his fpropile because he sal you from an angle. I skid well who bo you believe it to er" ant he slid I saw this article the news and I saw the newspaper and it got a flashback ando I believe it be Jeffrey"...
A. Uh huh.,
A. I said well we'll have to follow the of". Wi right.
A. That was purpose for coming here.
Q. Hight.; And uh..now we want to know if you had anything to do with the abduction of acam walsh?
A. I didn't, you heard all the false leads about I supposedly had cooke something to some women in Germany, that was proven to be just bole.,,
Q. Ho it dpid't hesr that.... Ade. Talk 10 fe rows all about that stuff. Right I sfoke to rim.
A. Ahd fpegofle said they see he ik srtszora and iw California..heyer 20 been there. And uh..sut the..I can't prove that I diow't do anything to them but the biggest, the biggest thing I can,.I can say is why would I have admitted to half gf them that trey would of enow hoteling brbout and then leave him out?,
Q. That's whet qb was peplarwine. trans sertal: 2134 reporting off.: anne
PAGE 12 OF 46
Statement of; Jeffrey Dahmer page 14 hac a. I told qp that I wanted to clear my conscious of everyone. 50
A. It wouldh't make, it woulde't make any sense to be trying ta hide that. You know as an individual even me, I would be embarrassed of egmething that i've done ih life, you enow, fe micht divulge cretain things but there are sohe things that I would eeep secret yi know maybe take to my crave with he.
A. Well I pot want to bo that. that's why I spilled everything when I was, I was hopeless td hide anything anymore.
A. Right.:
Q. So oh..
A. And like I saig that's why we're up here and yo) know and I had to ask you right out if you had anything to do with the kidnapping and the murder of adam walsh.
Q. Hothing..hothing.;
Q. one gf the things that din impress me last weee whew we were talking was your opewess and honesty about this, ou remember we've ine talked about this and them i'd ask you and I shared this with if you would have done that, would you tee US and you said absolutely" and then said hey?" And you bad a good reason, it's like du said.
A. No secret, there's no point in trying to hide it anymore you
Q. the devils advocate I mean, white shifts, those people that we always have to answer to they saic well, he's afraid of the death penalty" Florida has the death penalty.
A. I would welcome the death penalty.
Q. I know we talked a little bit about that last week.),
A. In fact ifi, if uh..if that would get me the death penalty i'd, i'd admit to et, you think it would? I'll be fine, that'll be fike with me.
A. No we don't want you to..
A. I dow't want to co ow rotting away in this place.
Q. We want..
A. I'd be more thar happy to get it over like that,
PAGE 13 OF 46
Statement of: Jeffrey debhher page 11
Q. We waht the right fersow that's besfonstiele for his murder, you xmgow, we doh't waht somebody just coffirg out just for the sale of; coppikg gut he could receive the beth fenadty as iw your case,
A. Th hue
A. No fe wouldn't waht that, I only want the truth from you. i'm, just saying that thig is what things that we hear, I found conversation last week to be very uh, yery few ane very horest. Refreshing,
Q. That's good.
Q. some of the things you said made sense. It made sense to me. As we were talking about that. But then we get these others that say well ho it's because gf this" of embarrassed because it's aa child" you ehow? fs never weht after children my interest was in older acelts of bar age aw all of them that it met it thought were ble age..uh..the wh..
Q. Conrad?
A. Conrad I thought he was df age, 80 did the police, that's why They let him back out.
Q. I bow the recent pictures of sim. Wor the pictures of the news with...he looked like a twelve year CID on that..that picture. But when you see the older pictures of him, he looks 19, 20 years
A. right right, and there was a 28 year old guy that I brought back that accused me of kidnapping hin or something ando everything ue, the police dide't believe him cause his story was weohg but he was working in the 219...curaning up, you know all through the wight and storf 30 it's, it's amazing how young how young some of these peofle sure that bre. In those everything.
Q. I handled a bad case last weber, I dow't engw if you get the. Hews up here or anything but that little missing child in Milwaukee, a year old girl..
A. bidh't hear about that.
Q. eah. She was abducted and then we ended up finding her threr days later dead and it was, sad, oo erow what did 3 year old bo to anybody..
A. Right, right, no I have ng interest younger children.
Q. I'd like to get into s0%e of your, you know, personal background and so forth you know, and... you waht another. Ruffin?
PAGE 14 OF 46
Q. Ho.
Q. low sure?)
A. year,
Q. how did you like them?)
A. They're good,; de they are, I just got another ghe,..I said boy those things are cop). ae yeah,
Q. What was your relationship with your parents growlhg ur?..
Q. many siblings ate there in the family? Bet have oe tounghr brother six years younger.,
A. Just the tho of you. We right.
Q. At what gee in your life did feel that theee was something different about you? Re ne oh exew I, ef khe what my grientaticn was around 13.
A. Uh huh. That was at 13 you say?
Q. Rich. Was ip some specific incident that made you realtz that there was something different abotit you?
A. no if just seemed to be the way things were and...there was no specific incident that triggered it,.ou ehow, they say people are molested by someone that's what makes them become homosexual that hever ws in my case.
A. No. So it ust seemed to be unborn whether that's true of not trans. Sertal: 2134 reporting off.: sic.
PAGE 15 OF 46
I don't know, but that's the way it seems to he.
A. Right. i've read some things recently about that, you enow the hypothalamus ou erow betihg born nature as opposed to nurture.. ae don't krow which is true or not 50..
Q. all you can do is speak for own)
A. Right.
Q. Was there any particular person that ou put your trust in? That you confided int
A. Ho. Just me and myself.,
Q. That right? You kept to yourself.:
A. Right.:
Q. Even throughout your high bchudl days?
A. Well I had friends and everything but.. 7
A. The important issues I kept to myself.; pied
Q. What were your thportant issues then? Ve
Q. Cg you feel you were an underachiever then? In your high school years?
Q. At what age did you first get involved in crime?
Q. You were dging prinkirg in your teenage ears?:
A.Un bush year.
Q. How about: ho, hot ow drugs, just marijuana during high school, that was
Q. Your drinking consume all gf our time?
PAGE 16 OF 46
A. Yeah. That's when I started drinking, I started hy junior year of high school..
Q. Did you graduate from high school?
A. ch yeah.
A. tt probably didn't have an affect with your uh..
Q. Ho it diow't really affect the grades too much.
Q. how were your grades?
A. Average
Q. Did you participate in any after school activities?
A. Ui, they had a tennis team I was ih that for about a year my junior..but uh, didn't stick with it.
Q. Did yo go onto college thent ae for three months.
Q. Where was that at?
A. Hid state. And drank, literally drank my way owe of that. wher you'd drink what would ou drink?)
Q. Do ou recall when you had your first homosexual act?
A. Uh let's see...well the first time I was approached was uh. over th Germany, lansthole Germany, I was working at a hospital, lansthole hospital..bnd uh one of the sergeant major I think he was etther the type of sergeant with two bars underneath or three..he hag his relptment and one wight I was drinetng in the local Club.. He approached he, said he aad party going or back at his place, asked me ifi wanted to go back I said sure.. And we went back, turned out there was nobody in the aparthent, just him. And he eights up this bowl of hash, shoked some hash, drank some beer, he goes, takes his shower, comes back and tries ti get me tq ih bed with him. I said no thanks 50 I just go walking ot stasgerthg out after that hash..that. Was goog hash..ahd uh..80 that was the first, time Been approached. The first real encounter was iw the uh..boorstcre, in milwauee.
Q. at what age?:
PAGE 17 OF 46
Offehse classification! Tcide statement of: Jeffrey dahner page 15
Q. Here ton fhto fpormographic material? Fh oh yeah, it spent thousands of dollars of that yer the years, yeah.
Q. Nothing in our teewvage years?: oe ng. Hothing then. Flast tine I ficked uf a...
Q. What gaught your interest towards the pornographic
Q. What?. To. What caught your interest specifically?
A. Oh the pornography they had over in Germany.
Q. 797 different than the United
A. Uh that was the first time I ever saw any dormograthy with the orientation that I have. It was over in Germany ang since I oulon't, didn't ave the time of the flace to develop any relatignshifes with brayeody I just satisfied hself with pornography sc continued buy it bow when I was ii Florida. Probably for the reason everybody else buys pornography you eng, ot when woold it ave been that you ended up picking up your first victim?
A. That was steven hicks,
Q. That was ue here in Milwaukee?
A. Right and we've gone..
Q. that would of bren Ohio.
A. Ohio, right, right..and that's bee gone over many times before sq all you have to td is ask for..
A. Right. Be and you'll get a complete run down of that
Q. Were there any events in your childhood that you attribute ta you for becoming a serial
A. Ho, none.
Q. The alcohol? 2134 reporting off.: SR hie. Sertal: 0039 date: superv. Approv. Sertal?
PAGE 18 OF 46
Q. Its' stile a mystery to me, you enow, lots of people are dryneers and they don't go and dg this ho. don't enow,
Q. this day you can't figure out why?). He have ho idea. have ng idea why I started getting the fantasies and thoughts when I was about 16 that's when it started higeing ih. I en over thrt with you last time..
A. uh hua
Q. So ho, it's still a mystery tq me, I have ho idea. And even the psychologists, they have no idea. All they do kame things you enow they layel them. sure. What Your victims, was there any specific way you went around to select them of was it a crime gf opportunity?
A. Uh..-as I said I interested in finding the type, the chip band dale tyep good looking swimmers type build.
A. Right,
Q. Gymhast type build and it was not a case of hating them it was just..I US,, 27 was the only way I chew of to keep them there and keep them with me. It gave me a sense of total control and increased the sexual thrill I guess. Knowing that I had total control of them. And that I gould do with them as I wished. That was the motivation, hot. there was we hateed ivyolved ay all.
A. When you saw that specific person that you desired did you have a pla or..
Q. Must? Fee
Q. How did you peck these people up pled you rouse them?
A. In bars, offered then money, that was basically that.
Q. They willfully came back to the place with you?;
A. Right, right.
Q. ou never had to threaten...;
A. Hever threatened.
Q. A weapon to coerced them back there?
A. Ho. Never did that.,
Q.growing uf, tell me, were you involved with, as rans. Serial! 2134 reporting off. A ble.
PAGE 19 OF 46
Statement of: Jeffrey Dahmer pace 17 pedophile?;.
Q. Ho.. You had bo desires towards children at that time elther?
A. No..,..1n best dallas there was some lewd and lascivious behavior in pre that I involveo in for about nh vere..
Q. ou were bsrrested the?
A. right. But uh, there was, there was no assault or any children SR antthting it was just masturbation. Oye 9. Speaking with qi guess cis interviews with you he said you were really heavy into masturbation? Fia right. a
Q. Hhen bid that start in your life? Fee uhh, don eno, something like that.
Q. Bhd the gbseesigon wet grew?
A. Teah awd grew, all the qbsrsstows. Uh, I made a flistsee the, first encounter I ho with ahyohe was the kit ackosss the street, we Wee both aboiit the same ace, qb it was consensual ina Fort...
Q. Ohio?)
A. yeah that was really the first time but it was just very light sex, kissing, holding that type of thing.
Q. How old were you at that time?
A. was 14, think he was 14 something like that. It was consensual.,
Q. Bnd the next time apter that wasn't until you were iw...
A. Fight..
Q. Th the service,
A. That was hot..that was not until the hicks incident. That was not consensual.
A. Right.., this obsession that you sprak about, I mean, how were you able to control yourself while you were in the service and going through high cool ahd of int? The service? 2134 reporting Me yi. Sertal: og038 date: 08-17-02 supery. App. Tre!
PAGE 20 OF 46
Heavy drinking, pornography, masturbation.
A. That satisfied your needs at the time.
Q. Bight. But once ti had the opportunity and the place where I gould actually shake these fantasies cohe tree then trying td hold them back was, just served to be too much, I went theogugh that with you too.. (unintelligiele).. Desire grew and grew more constant stronger, as 50 ohsr you were able to obtain your own apartment, your ot place.
A. Eveh before that..,
Q. Eveh before?
A. I was briver enough to try td..7to bo, actually do.it in west dallas, before I got the apartment that's how driven and how strong the desire was.
Q. When did you first ever think about killing somebody? When dib thre enter your mind?
A. when was six, six, when I was about 15 or 16 those fantasies started entering my herb, why they did I don't enow. I never thought it would really happen but everything was set up so perfectly that one... Tine ih ohid.. As
Q. with the
A. Yeah, yeah, that's no excuse for it but it's just weird how everything wa just perfect that one time..
Q. what did, Jeffrey, we bidh't talk in great detail about that fantasy, what was it that od...yyou'd be seeing when you closed your eyes or the,.arousal, would you be feeling? What exactly was that?
A. Yeah..thoughts of a stood looking well built young guy, having total control over him..uh..uh,..1I don't know ip killing ever came into
Q. Came into play but that was the only way to keep him then that would he done. then the total domemation, total..
A. Right.. love slave?) Nh. Yeah, or..what abgut the dismembering?) 2134 reporting off.: chase.
PAGE 21 OF 46
Q. That, that haffened more as uh., necessity, the first time I didn't kkow how to dispose of the remains bad so but gnce I started digging it, it became sexually exciting to me.
Q. we talked about the road kill..)
A. Ua huh. and ou bringing it back and dissecting iv..
A. Right.
Q. and taking the sein off it..
A. There was nothing sexual about that, that was just...
Q. (curiosity)
A. Morbid curiosity.
Q. what abodt with the humans and, and..
A. That bed become sexual as the years went by..
Q. maybe if you could detail for me exactly what, the taking of tee skin off, was there some...
A. tie 00 that one time.. I didn't enow if et could he done, I wanted to see if if could be..it's possible. And just keeping mementos, the skulls.
Q. any other body parts?) ib. Sometimes genitals, hands.. Uhh, that's about it. One time 1 tried ta mummify owe of the heads....uh..e uh,.toge the bohe out of the eack here, and scooped the brain out and soaked the whole head with the flesh gn it in acetone and it worked or a while, that's the one I kept I#t the locker at work when I was at the work release program..uh.. Bit I just did that one time.
A. Where die you learh about the, so much about the anatomy, oid you have books on this?,
A. No it was trial and error, I really didn't know that much about the anatomy at that time.:
PAGE 22 OF 46
Q. What about, how did you learn about what chemicals to use?
A. That was trial ane error too, 2 had called 4a couple taxidermistspretended that I was, wanted to wh..dry out rabbit skins cr something libre that. And there was this pharmacy right hex to my apartment that had, where you could cut gallons of cholorafgrm, elther,; formaloehyce, 50 it's pretty convenient.
A. Right. Is that how you would control some of your victims with croloraform or either?
A. I tried that but it wever worked. For some reason those two chemicals do not work, whether han the wrong type I don't know. It Was just the sleeping pills that were most effective.
Q. ou never had to use physical force to keep them there? He one, a couple times I I kever wanted to I wawzed to..to make it as quick akd painless as possible, right. And the one time that there was a physical fight I was out of fills, that was the time told you the guy rolled on the floor and knocked the table over, there's a march statutes, those griffehs.. Re griffine..
A. And the giher tie wars when that 15 year old went back with he, he was working the bar, the 219 bar? ue hurt. ae akd uh..uh..didn't have any pills sc I whacked him witha rubere mallet in the back of the head. Se left, came back asked for some money, got into a fight, and ended up letting him go iw the morning..then he went and told the police a wild tale they didn't believe him and so..but that was about the only two times. Werat types of tools did ou use for dishemberthg these victims?
Q. Large huwiing knife witha rueher grip, very large.. Bought it
A. The knife store in the grand mall..., Ae no serrated it was just large, the blade was about that big, thick..very sharp,,
Q. Would that work?
A. Yeah.
Q. Was it easy to, to ba?: trans, serial: 2134 reporting off.: qp ve
PAGE 23 OF 46
Complaint 2: ae statement of: Jeffrey Dahmer page 21.
Q. Thrt worked, right. Right.
Q. Any order you would go in?
A. No just pee uncomfortapl talking about it on tape hot frowing who's going to be listening to the tape, this part.. guys really need this on tape?
A. Yeah, let's like ti SA, it's for behavioral science for tebchtihg.. I would ee willing, to take notes if you want to turh the tape off.) Ae till jost give you a general description.
Q. Sure.
A. Jost slit from the sterhum to the you krow, pubic area, removed the internal organs and the cut the flesh startehg from the calyes, legs, and then up, removed the head and put that in the freezer, and dh..the one, the skeleton that was defleshed I wehild put in that large gallon cooking pot that I hab pour in the box of that wall cleaning solution, i'd strip the remaining flesh off, turn up to a boll..and did the same with the reads 50 it had a clean skeleton, a big clean skeleton ad wh..sometimes I would saved portions of the flesh with consumption, most gf if went out in the garbage or in the acid Bath and a lot of the unused skeletons went into the acid baats too. Or were flushed down the toilet..50 that's how if was owe.
Q. This ritual you had with your victims, how long of a period of time bid thib go of with just one yictimn until you were totally satisfied?
A. It's, fora long time it was just once every two months, near the end if was once every weee.
Q. Ohce weer?
Q. How as the skeletons started pilling in your apartment there rere you concerned about detection? Or about the police?
A.Not until a point where it got to the foint where I couldn't eve fit then in the freezer and it had to by that large barrel that had heavier plastic so that I could acibify them without any leakage or smell. And it would get...
Q. Old that get rid of would that melt them of..
A. That, you can buy these gallon jugs of muratic acids, it's the diluted ine of hydrochloric acid..I had 16 gallows of it there waiting 2134 reporting cuff.: ay ine oe rey
PAGE 24 OF 46
Offehse classification: homicide to use ih those three skeletons that were in the blue, blue tub, year that will acidify it withi a couple days you can scoop it gut and pour tt bosh the toilet, bohes eveh.. And uh..stuff.. when you started becoming concerned at that one point where ou couldn't fit it in the freezer bhymore, what actich did you tare then?
A. I bought that large 55 gallon blue barrel, the, put the three skeletons that wash't going to keep in that, had the, had the
Q. Uwheoiled heads frozen in the freezer and one skeleton that I wasn't going to boil and eeep. So ft was just going to four all those jugs of, meridic acid cn there and acidipy them but never did get the chance.
A. any time bid yotl ever have to remove any body parts from your, apartment and bury them or biscard of them somewhere?
Q. Never did that, wever did that..
A. Sq everything was richt in your apartment.
Q. Everything was right in the apartment, hothing, flesh did co out sometimes in the garbage but it was tightly wrapped ahd it was undetected, horody ever detected it.
Q. Do you have your personal security system?
A. Yeah, right.
Q. What was that? I installed a security system, 400 pollar security system, installed a locking bathroom, mean bedroom loc..had a video camera, dummy video camera, and uh,. Installed my locks in the doors, yor. Engw, sliding door, fey chalw lock..
Q. Now your victimg, you had sex with them prior to treir deaths? A prior awd afterwards.
A. Akd after. He riewr. A you're into necrophilia.
A. Right and that led to the cannibalism, just one thing led to another,
Q. The obsession?
A. Right. 2134 reporting off.: nee lic.
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Offense classification; homicide
Q. the cakhibalish would you cook
A. Yeah. Yeah.
Q. something I didn't ask last weer that I just thought of nov, when you had sex with them, would it be penis to anus?)
A. Sometimes.,
Q. what other?)
A. arousing
Q. Rash,
A. I would like one yeah.. Th
Q. I just get the feeling fhat you'd line it.. ae
A. yeah..
Q. (hope there st looking) now with each victim would you progress to something different?
A.Yeah it was a progressive thing like I was saying the last time, when starteo up again there was many year period when I was ming nothing. Between the hicks ixctdent and the accident in the, in the ambassador hotel which I never meant to have happen but tt did. And.
Q. Between that time I was trying everything from grave robbing to actually stealing a mannequin out of a boston store at south ridge to placate the desire without raving to hurt anybody. Euvt it didn't never worked and one thing led to another...
A. Increased level of intensity.
A. Right, just increased it, ae
Q. how when ou talked to me about the masturbation and uh, how many times a day did you?)
A. Tho, three.
PAGE 26 OF 46
Q. ahd it still wouldn't sexually satisfy you?)
A. It satisfied me fora short time but it kever, it hever deove the desire from ultimate fulfillment and satisfaction away. That could only be done I thought through actually ahavirg control of someone. that was the ming setting, we talked abbot last weee that it would just grow..
A. Right, mean it was the maiw focus of my life..after I got off, work that's the first thing i'd did was head to the porn shops, make plans to go into Chicago watch the strip tease acts, uh..my whole life revolved around that schedule.
Q. Did you ever keep diary of these incidents?
A. I was never one for writing letters or keeping diaries.
Q. So your diary was basically your fantasy that you kept in your moh and you rehashed over the..
A. Used the pictures that I took.
Q. Oh you took pictures of thom?
A. Yeah polaroid pictures. Ifi had had a video camera I would of probably used that but I never went that far.
Q. Did ou have to secure some of your victims I mean with bondage
Q. Handcuffs or anything tq keep them totally under control?
A. I starteo doing that uh..with wh..let's see..straughter, MR, a straughter, yeah I bought handcuffs at the Army supply and uh..did that after they were drugged I handcuffed i'd handcuff them anb...I wasn't interested in torture, that's not what interested me, all I wanted to do was make it quick and painless for them. know it sounds ridiculous for me to say that but that's what my goal was so i'd have complete control yer them 50 I wouldn't have. To worry about them leaving in the morning and I could fulfill hy pahntasees
Q. So you apparently did have a conscious argvt these peofle experiencing pain,
Q. That's why I gave them the sleeping pill? Before...yeah, and uh.. It usually worked I mean I would usually use seven sleeping pills. what kind?) Ae halctum. 2134 reporting off.: aes. Serlal! 0038 date: superyv.ap serial:
PAGE 27 OF 46
Statement of: Jeffrey Dahmer base 25
Q. How did you get them to take it?
A. gust mix, mix, i'd say I wahted, "let's have sohe coffee" with sohe irish creme in it 86 the copper would dissolve the pills, you how, they'd never see the fills er there..and that would be it, within half an hour fhet'o be asleep.
A. Was there ghe particular victim that was the host sextal satisfying experience yor ha?
Q. Thh...the one tower the most pictures of uh...black guy, met if front of the ecoustore on 27th street, you ehow what bookstore that (unintelligible) total, total cothctdehce, was, tat 4 o'clock th the working, hadn't met anyeoqdy interesting at the bars downtown, I was just cong to 60 in and look at some pornography akd go back to sleep and as I was approaching tke eoxonstore I saw him walking odt, ice lovering guy, asked him whether he wanted tc go ace and he said "yes" and he's the one I took the most pictures of
A. is that how you memorialized.
Q. Pictures and the skulls.. Yeah.
Q. that was your mementos?) He ui huh..
Q. Bid you evolve into any satanic activities?. A it, it was leading towards that
Q. At what stage?... te
A. Towards the middle later parts..I never, never was involved with buy group but I was beading a lot of literature cow it ane wondering whether it was possible to gain even more bower through rituals and stuff. I didh't know, I was just experimenting,..;
Q. Din you dabble in these rituals? In your own apartment?
A. Sometimes yeah, in the begeoom, that's why I had the alters set ip ano everything
Q. Frou hide the smoke while these guards come you had ak alter uf tx your bedroom? Aa
A. Right. With the painted skulls.. tie how would the ritual co?
Q. bidh't really have ahy set.. Rey
PAGE 28 OF 46
of side
Q. So after the hicks Icident the first time...and uh..apter that it seemed like my conscience was just seared. Where as they became hore objects that people and I didn't think of the famzlyes, didn't think of what they'd go through, mo, my conscience was just...
A. Yeah, the..the desire to fulfill the fantasies became the all consuming thing...
Q. these intended targets were just lifeless people eventually,. jost objects?
A. That's how I visualize them yerh.. That's why I hever cot ta any of them real well, it made it easier..7ust sexual geiects,
Q. Would you feel, the black victim that you spore of, did you have feelings for him since you felt like he was the.
A. I didn't like the way I had to go aboiff keeping him, I hab tc stab hit in the throat witha knife cause he wasn't completely oly sp no I didn't like doing that..uh..
Q. how lowg would you keep 4. Victim before ou had tt...
Q. You woulde't kill your, after having a sexual experience: with these feople, did you ill them that day gf could yo leave them in your apartment as you went on to bo your activities the next day? Aa bpgring, during the hight apter I ficked them up that's when I would kill them. Except when I started, started using the drilling technique,.
Q. what technique is that?).
A. was getting tired of rileing them and uh..having to deflesh them I uh...wanted to see if it was possible to...
A.unintelligible
Q. wanted to see if it was possible to make, again it sounds really gross, uh, zombies, people that would wot haye a will of their ow but would follow..no thanks..8irtt would follow my instructions without resistance..&0 uh after I started using the drilling technique. I'd keef well with the Conrad case, that's why he ended up eurnikg the whole house up gone time, I didh't thine he'd have enough coherence ta fo that but he did.
PAGE 29 OF 46
Offehse classification: homicide
Q. So you attempted the drilling their brain?
A. Right and inject some huratic acid into the frontal lobes but it neyer worked, it either didh't wore well bsough of it was ghath 50.-on guy jeramiar weineerger, he wh, he's the man I bet in carol's bar uf in Chicago, he was with me a couple days before he died but the sedind day he was 2th a comatose state and wheh I came back from wore the second night he had died and tf kehd of struck me as particularly horrifying because he was the only one that died with his eyes, his eyes were just wide open.
Q. That bothered ot?
A. eah, nobody else had died like thay before.
Q. Some type of interpersonal reaction between the two of you?
A. Uh huh. the result was his death with his eyes oper.
A. Yeah his eyes were just wide open, I don't know why, what caused that tq happer bot ii..: What about at any time was the police a concern for you?
A. The time in the middle of the night, 3 o'clock ch a deserted road where I was pulled over two policemen in Bath Ohio and had the body parts im the back seat and they gave he a ticket for driving left of center..had to take tre drone test and everything and they asked ne hhat's this stuff" and said it's just garbage that I hadn't ccotten around to drop off at the city oumf earlier today"..
Q. They inquired about the bags?;
A. Year they said abgut the bags, I thought they were going to look ih them..
Q. shell them br
A. They could smell then..hoth of them,. Scared the hell out of me,,
Q. After they just wrote you a ticket and let you go, what did yott thine?;
A. I couldn't believe it, I thought I was dreaming..50 I kent back home and that was the first time..the secqhd time in the hotel..where
PAGE 30 OF 46
I wore th and the guy was dead underneath didn't ewow how, how I was going to bahdle that..never hag that happen..
Q.
A. Yeah.
Q. and that was when you had to go out and by the suitcase ant then get him cut?) Oe
A. Th huh.?. din you dismember him?
Q. Ho he fit mn the suitcase.
Q. he did?)
A. Yeah.;
Q. Nut that abby helped you..
A. Lift it in the trunk yeah.
Q. You took hin back to your home? Sale
A. Right, my grandpa's house...I had no inpektions of doing: anything like that, never have done that on purpose. Sut after that it all started again. Ot
Q. there was another incident that you told US about last week 7 with the 88 where the folice came which was after the arrest for uh..senthasomphone brother and they searched your apartment..)
A. Uh huh.
A. and yoo aad the skoll
A. That was uh..even before that there was a time, well i'm not going to say that on tape... That was the time I had that mummified head and that was after, yeah that was after the tine I got arrested for tarimng pictures. They searched my apartment, I had an apartment on 24 street and they looked, they just didn't pull a towel
Q. That's why they dldn't see the skull. wle they had tunnel vision they were looking for photographs and drugs but they totally missed the skull)
A. Right. And another time I had that mummified head in the uh..small metal chest I had in the closet and I.took that to work, that's where I kept it at work..for about a year. Ano then the time that the folice came arcund asking questions about the guy that was trans serial 2134 reporting gff.; qe
PAGE 31 OF 46
Shot upstairs or strangled upstairs, he came into my apartment akd looked around and didn't see anything.
Q. al and what else..
Q. As he was looking around what was going through your head?.
A. thought tt was because of one of the guys, you know, but then he. Said "no, somebody had been strangled upstairs" and he was just asking everybody fh the apartment building if they anything.
Q. You had hothing to do with that guy who was strangled? He hothing,.absolutely nothing. Uh uh.
Q. something I found interesting last time when we talked was how you compartmentallze your life. au never.
A. nothing crossed over).
A. Right. Then the time that 15 year old I met working at tre bae..he ran and told the police that I had assaulted him and they didn't believe him..
Q. yeah the story was 50 bizarre that they just didn't believe him)
A. then the sinthasomphone time you know, where the body was lying ifi the bedroom ando all they would of had to to ts lock ik the bedroom and tha'? Would have been it. 50 there's been lots of strange close cans.. Ad te lot of contacts with folice bout you where always able to gust avoid detection
A. Right.)
Q. buff, talk your way out of it), evi then at ng time I guess because of our obsession with this you ever wished that you were caught,, ba hever, absolutely hever. Wo there was no suubcomectous bucket ar bpesire to ever be caught. That i'm sure of. But that's how powerful the desire was even though I was coming sq close these times I still... Was driven to feel that that was the gnly way ef gould any satisfaction... Im life, that's what it seemed.
A. Did you get more satisfaction out of the sex act or cut of the
PAGE 32 OF 46
Controlling the individual?..
A. Hale aiko half.
Q. Half and half. it would build up the control ano help bold up ard the gratification and the seek acts. A eah right, right. In face just going out and..and uh, and hunting was in itself a thrill, never knowing who i'd meet, how nice looking they'd he, how much fun we'd have or whatever. That itself wes part of the fun..uh,, dume question but hag you ever tried heterosexual liee Conrad...any time witha female... he never dig, never had any interest.'
Q. desire, cause you knew ever since 13 that..)
A. Right. your interest lied elsewhere. nh. Could of done tt lot over in Germany they have prostitution hotels over there where you utter pay your money ade vou rojo..
Q. But you pidn'y want to experiment?.
A. And your victims you dion't discriminate them, they were white; anb black,
Q. Ho that's one thing we were talking aebcit eeporr. Milwagree journal tried to make it sound like it was bactal. Absolutely not. I mean ifi had had my way they, the guys woulc have all looked like the chip and dale dancers, that's the type I was apter, the type ou know did the strip tease acts in Chicago and stuff. But uh, there's nothing racial about it. Absolutely nothing. How could it. He? I mean the first was white, the second guy was white, the third guy was American indian, the fourth guy was hispanic, then some black guys, the astan, jewish, puerto rica, another white guy..it's wor racial...:. What victim did yotl first become involved weth in the Re
PAGE 33 OF 46
Q. Was the cannibalism a sexual gratification too?
A. It was. It started out as exdertmentation..made ne feel like they were more apart of me..
Q. that's interesting)
A. Sq at give me some satisfaction and there was some gratification.
Q. how would you prepare lt?)
A. Uhh..on the stove, on the skillet, uh, ist like vou prepare a hesular piece of meat, they'd be th, cut into you enow, sizes that were smart, enough to fat.
Q. any other organs?
A. Hearts, liver, thigh meat, biceps, biceps.. Mo, how did it taste?) Uhh..., there's no way of saying it without sounding
Q.gruesome..:
A. don't find it offensive.
Q. Well it+...-2, bom'? Know how to describe tt. You've had filet mignon, haven't you?
Q. uh rub, that's ore gf favorite)
A. Yeah. Very tender...
Q. When you finally were arrested, OK, was there any type of relief? That you said god it's finally over?.
Q. Or you regretted that you were caught,
A. I don't regret it. thse's the funny thing, fart of me regret it..ho it's OK..;
Q. You sure?
Q. Happened for me and everybody else involved because could no? Stop myself. I know intellectually this is the best thing for. Everybody... Gn the emotional level there's still a lot of wanting to be able tg have she freedom to. Go to Chicago, drink, spend the nights serial: 0038 date; 08-27-92 superv. Approv. Sertal reviewer:.
PAGE 34 OF 46
Strtement of: Jeffrey daher page 32
A. The nightclub..you hnow..the nightlife. it caaagcses preston. Causes lot gf tension sometimes. Sometimes I handle it better tha others. Weekends are the worst.
Q. why fs that? Because that was your pattern?)
A. Right,
Q. right, that's what I thought.)
Q. Was a lot of fun, rave td admit, it's a lot of excitement..
A. Stalking and preying..
A. Not necessarily the gruesome part just being out in the crowd in that type of atmosphere.
Q. Hot having to pretend that I was something that I You. Engw..2hu watching the strip tease acts, there's some pretty good owes,
A. Right.
A. Right...
A. I used to go to bistro 2, that's good one in chtcagg..carol's, the yortex, these huge multi floor night clubs; stay opeh fill about 4 in the morning. Then they'd have the Bath clubs, spend the rest of the hight th thase,
Q. would that cost?);
A. Uh huh. Rout 16 bucks a night just to get in there.
Q. then anything goes?). Ta seything whirlpool, bauna, steam boom, they eave it all set uf..they have tee viewing.
A. there's a place eh new fork, uf on 50 schething street I cant remember the wame gf it, it's been 50 many years, it's been 10 years stihce I?7e beek assigned there bot that's the same dhly it was hale,. Female..;
Q. Ho, it wash't, yeah, anything,.anything, the gnly rule they hac ix that place
A. That if 4a person said boa,.) Serial: oo38 date: supery, approv serial?
PAGE 35 OF 46
Statement of: Jeffrey dahher pace 353
A. No was no..
Q. fo was nh.
A. Same thing deaf th those,, ce. couldn't keep (unintelligible)
A. Right right,
Q. If there anything different the police could of done to catch you hefore?
A. Nothing.
Q. Hothibe.; fi. Except loom ew the car, locke in the bags, look ih pre bedroom,
A. be hore thorough)
A. Yeah. fa he korg thorough when they come and investigate maybe
Q. Hormal complaint.
A. Well they would of had to open, unlock the freezer..aanh they 7:-; would of had me to uh..they would of had to through my closets.. 7 had everything locked up.
Q. she of those incidents were theee though, it was detectlele. Catchable if they old have just gohe the extra step in picking uf the towel..3 There was dh...
A. or looking in the bag of trash, they could smell the oobor..
A. Uh
Q. whatever but it was easier to just..
A. Looking in fre bedroom where the body was, right, grin the close? Where the skulls, some of the skulls were. Oz a if there's any lesson to be learned from this as I see iv and lear from it is you fnow he thorduch..be professional td give the. Extra log
Q. mean I had the apartnemt rice looking, clean apartment, it didn't look like there was anything ascue or anything 80.,
PAGE 36 OF 46
Immense eecenemmediadmaineanda oundle spfenge classification: homicide strtement gf: Jeffrey Dahmer page 74
Q. well that has a big impact on..}.
A. Fight.
Q. First impressions. myself when I go look just as guilty as anybody else and then yo make your first impression and you say hey this is hot, this person's crgantzed and clean and,.50 you know, you give it the time..
A. Iv was a big front.
Q. I was just gothg to ask you that, was that a stage? Was that
Q. Front?)
A. I lizr to meets the place clean but, you know, worked to my advantage to.
Q. What bid you bo with the blood? 4
A. It was all done in the bathroom that just went dow the bathroom drain.
Q. the drains?
A. Right.
Q. Is there anything different your victims gould have done to get away?
A. after they were drugged. Chile you drugged them they were yours?
Q. And the only, the only reason the last guy got away was because I was completely unconscious for at least 6 hours according to what he said, il have ng memory of anything that happened bit I was still functioning,. Ane right. that was unintelligible
A. Yeah, oe how many sleeping pills would you give at a time?)
A. Uh, 5 or
Q. or
A. Tt don't have any sleeping pills that time.
Q. what were they?) 2134 reporting off.: qq sertal: date: supery.approv. Serial:. Reviewer:
PAGE 37 OF 46
Q. Halcium.125..milagram 50 eno dlid something out of the nom that you usually dldn't DA that yor lost control of your victim, right thar planned on getting him real drunk but it box! Tt wore. I was not browek. I was carermilly just having a couple beers that day, I was hot drunk, I doh't know why I blaneerd Liee that.
Q. were you over tered or anything?)
A. I was tired buy it don't blane out for getting overly tired. especially if you're in the wind set
Q. Bight.. bot that a tie right that's something you have to keep your, keef on. toes... I have no idea why half of my brain just turned itself off. that's what it seems life. And uh, I came back to consciousness 5 minutes before I heard the knock tee door ando there were the police, I pigw't ave son time fora cover story or anything, it was just... Oo." you knew at that potryt..) Right.
A. Right..
Q. You speak very well, you articulate very well, what is your td
Q. You know et?
A. Average..
Q. Average ID.
A. Average range from what i've heard anyway from testing.
Q. are these recent tests?) Hi year.
A. You must do a lot of reading., it*s quite obvious.
A. Now I it, lire I saic I hever used to do ahy reading I used to just go home and flif on the tube and you know, watch bot uh..,
Q. Did you have a religious background in the beginning asa chied and teenager?
A. Wot az a child, I tried,.I tried for about tit years with my grandma and like I, that's a whole hother tale it,.didn't wore.. Desires
PAGE 38 OF 46
Complatht 81-55073 a got stronger ahd stronger..I just gave up sc ng, I really haven't had real deep religious background anything. Alfeough I always felt that there was something more tha just this life, I never jet,.I never really wanted to thine about a religious background because I wang involved in such horrible things and 7 just didh't want to even think
Q. It. I just figured i'd tare the ostrich approach ifi don'? Thife
A. It then I won't ever have to beal with it. Which was stupid..
Q. you believe in reincarnation, or do you believe in reincarnation?
A. Ho, I know that's a bunch of bune, you enow.. Hut I just, like I said, I was taking the ostrich approach, I felt well, maybe ifi dow think of it or think of it seriously i'll hever have to oral with
Q. Yo know, maybe I don't worry aottt getting caught I will never get caught. Stufioc self blew it.
Q. yeah but it's common. It's really common the denial or the head it the sand, the ostrich approach as you call it)
A. We huh. who's the one person im your life that you'd consider the host
A. Well my mom and dad are significant and grandma is.. Those peree I guess..
Q. do you ever look back at history and think of anyone, any troividual or anything..3 ae as far as looking up to any cone individual of anything, uh..nd, no.
Q. there anybody that influenced your life? One endivimial person?
A. No. have to say I influenced my life. I never treed to mold life after anybody or copy anybody. I never had any interest
Q. Iw following any of these wh,,.true creme stories, you know, like some people like 10 buy these magazines and read about it, I had nooo interest. that's interesting, I wean, were you interested iw police. Stories on ty awd uh.. Oe
A. Well sure I watched all those, even how you know, I watch those. 7 those are entertaining to watch. qs you do have jn interest. A
A. Yeah they're interesting. Hit as par as walhing into a waldrh's 2134 reporting off.; fa set.
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Strtement of: Jeffrey Dahmer page 37 bookstore and buying these sleazy detective magazines and these case histories I don't il just wever did. Hwever had interest. would to the occult stand and. Look through that.but that's about it.
Q. when you were a child and growing up and in your teenage years rad stuff what did you see yourself becoming?)
A. Hue..I just had a vague sense of wanting to be 30me, do something busthess, some type of sales work but 1 was drinking 5a much by time that I never mace it a clear cut case.
Q. it wasn't like you were going to follow in your father's footsteps?).
A. Ho, of your
A. No, ho,
Q. you weren't planning gn any long range As hope, wash't ago at planning long range goals.
A. What bo you think was your biggest downfall, I mean, was It when you got ihto pornographic material that escalated to the nent stage? Lie if ou could elimthats that one thing in your life.. Ie ur huh..
Q. I ou think that would of eliminated what the end results were?
A. Ifi could eliniwate those fantasies, those overwhelming fantasies, starting when it was 15 or 16, short circulated them, not think about them, not, not entertaining them..then that probably would of stopped everything. Bhd tf hag had some sort gf uh... Uh..strong that I really ou know, believed in followlhg..
A. Right personal}..
A. Right. And I thought I didn't have either so the rest of it was
Q. far as pornography? 0, no that doesn't cause anybody to FD this.
A. but were so engrossed in pornography..
A. It just fueled the fantasies. But ie don't think it would of....
Q. 50 you must of had a lot of idle time, that you had these frhtasies that constantly occupied yoor life instead of havirgs other distractions.;: fre 2124 reporting off.: qr are
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21-86073 bia
A. Right cause I didn't have any pornography material before the hicks incident.,
Q. that was interesting awd I wanted to ask that is what came first the fantasies or the pornography?) the fantasies,: oa (unintelligiele) 50 the there would of bee hothing that yo aculd of done? ay ho. It's something that just...
A. came about and the pornography was a way of trying to satisfy the..
A. Right..,
Q. the certosity of locking ano furling and it.
A. Right.
Q. So these fantasies started at 14 or 157
A. That would haye been after that incident with your neighbor, the': child? Uk
A. Right, right. But that didn't trigger anything either..that, that was just uhh..1 bet that happens a lot probably you know just..
Q. Ow, yeah,)
A. Tho people experimenting..
Q. Opportunity eve heterosexual):
A. Yeah.
Q. young males can experiment you enow, at those ages with you ewow..)
A. The only time I was ever attacked was wheh I was afout 13 of ID I was walking home from a friends house one night and these three gus, these three seniors from high school and whacked me for no reason with black jack in the back of the neck..3ho went home pretty scared after that.
Q. it hurt too) trans, serial: 2134 reporting off.: qd sic
PAGE 41 OF 46
oa statement df: Jeffrey Dahmer free 49
A. Yeah it did. And for no reason, you ewow, I didn't oo anything to them or anything they were just looking for someone to hit.
Q. peofle out there that do that.).
A. vere.
Q. doubt about that.) Were you parents
A. They gave pretty good ciscipliee. Yeah. DA did either of them have any problems with alcohol?
Q. it looes like they're getting ready for shift chances they're all congregating.. 7
Q. Oh bre they?
A. yerh)
A. I can't point to any one thing that trigger it, Do they let you smoke in your cell?
Q. Oh yeah..
Q. these guys are all starting to come by here.
A. OK.
Q. I doh't have any objection, what are they going to fo to me? You enow, I don't want to cruse grief pro you..
A. Yeah.
Q. or next time ifi want to come up here you know but uh..00 you have amy more questions or anything?) Uhh, ust looking back now, regressing..5bo you! Have ay remorse for fhat you pp? Wu 4 great deal of remorse. I, I would hope, I mean ue..one thing that f've..that's puseled we ts why I cakr't fee to generate nore feeling..f mean ifi had, had been able to uh..feel more emotion ue, this may hot have happened..sut it ust seems like my emotion, my... Emotional side has beem deadeked.. Ae
Q. numb?
A. Year.. Es reviewer:
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Title al ba hum. Bot that's normal, I mean that's uh, a normal reaction to an abnormal you krow but if you did become ewoticgnally tavolved weth of your feople,,..; I would of never....
A. Eight. Wo. Or if they woule of hit something, you fnow.. a. Right. Right. Uh, as far as feeling badly of what i've done, yes li feel bad, I reow it's wrong but iv doesn't do anyone goon kay bod to croccglile tears ang pit of the big act..1I mbah,. He sure. Before killing a human, did ou experlhent ever killing animals?.,
Q. Ho I never killed animals. Never did that. I always used dead gohes 20st for experimentation..
Q. the oye guy's staring at ou.-) a that's alright. Ave. Qo. Ois anything other questions you'd like to ask? not for this. again jeff, I enjoyed the talk.. aa or, thanks for the muffins and the hook... Ae
A. And appreciate your candidness with US and uh..just to reiterate my main purpose of coming here for you eno, the investigation of auam walsh ang yo go on record to say that you hag hothing to df weth it.
Q. Hothing to ho witt it,
A. That murder of kidnapping.. OK ae il heard it on the news but I bad yothing to bo with it, ho. A a ang if you did have something to do with it, you woule, you waht another owe?) woulg aomit ts tt,
A. Uh..right, yeah. Uh yeah I guess I witt tare one more. Ane qi. will be happy that you liked her muffins). this interview is going to be concluded on thursday, at approximately 1445 hours. Thane you. 2134 reporting cues.: qd ic. 7