At 5:53 on the evening of May 17, 2022, two Winnipeg homicide detectives brought Jeremy Skibicki into interview room A9 at police headquarters and told him that everything said there would be recorded, even while he sat alone. He had been arrested earlier that day over the death of Rebecca Contois, whose partial remains had been found the morning before in a garbage bin near his apartment block in North Kildonan. When the detectives walked him out of the room at 3:53 the following afternoon, he had described killing three more women whose deaths the police did not yet know about.
Rebecca Contois was 24, a member of O-Chi-Chak-Ko-Sipi First Nation and the mother of a child. Morgan Harris, 39, of Long Plain First Nation, had five children and a grandchild, and was last seen near Main Street and Henry Avenue on May 1. Marcedes Myran, 26, also from Long Plain, had two children and was last seen in the North End. The fourth woman he could not name at all. For almost three years she was known by the name Indigenous elders gave her, Mashkode Bizhiki'ikwe, Buffalo Woman, until police identified her in March 2025 as Ashlee Shingoose of St. Theresa Point First Nation. The remains of Morgan Harris and Marcedes Myran had been carried from a dumpster to the Prairie Green landfill north of the city, and they were found there on February 26, 2025, in a search that a provincial government had refused to fund and its successor paid for.
He was charged with the three further killings on December 1, 2022. At trial in the Manitoba Court of King's Bench in May 2024, the defense did not contest that he killed the four women and argued instead that a mental disorder left him not criminally responsible, and this recording was played in open court. On July 11, 2024, Chief Justice Glenn Joyal rejected that defense and convicted him of four counts of first-degree murder; on August 28 he was sentenced to life imprisonment with no parole for 25 years. What follows is the transcript a court reporter typed from the video, 349 pages covering almost twenty-two hours in the room.
A good deal of this day is not questioning at all. He eats, is given a blanket, waits alone for long stretches, and speaks with a lawyer, Kevin Sneesby, who arrives partway through; the reporter logged each entrance and exit in parentheses with the clock time, and those lines are kept because they are the only way to follow the hours passing. Detective Allan is the "Greg" the other officer refers to in the first minutes. The questioning itself runs from his background and marriage through a long account of the killings, the places he says he left each woman, and the clothing and belongings he kept.
This is his account, given in custody, and not all of it was true. He told the detectives that the first woman he killed was one whose face he had seen on a missing-persons poster, and he was formally arrested for her murder during the night; hours later Detective Allan told him she had been found alive. Police believe the first of the four killings was of the woman later identified as Ashlee Shingoose, around March 15, 2022. His statements that God directed him, and his descriptions of his own illness, are the material the defense relied on at trial, and the court did not accept that he was not criminally responsible. The conviction rests on the whole trial record, of which this is one exhibit.
Six living women who are not among the four victims are named in the recording, and we have taken their names out. One is a former partner whose identity a Manitoba court ordered protected; her name, spoken twice, now reads [name withheld under a court order]. His wife is not covered by any order, but her family asked the press not to publish her name and nothing in the record depends on it, so each of its 18 appearances reads [wife's name withheld]. The woman he wrongly said he had killed, and three others he describes meeting, attacking or thinking about harming, appear as [name withheld], 47 times in all. Every other name stands as the reporter typed it.
The interview was recorded by the Winnipeg Police Service and the transcript entered as an exhibit in R. v. Skibicki. A pretrial ban on reporting it was ordered in November 2023 to protect a jury that never sat; once both sides agreed to trial by judge alone the ban lapsed, the video was played in court on May 8, 2024, and the court released a 6 hour 46 minute excerpt the next day. Our copy is the one the Winnipeg Free Press published from the exhibit. Crown copyright may subsist in a Canadian police record, and we reproduce it as a court record with this note; the certified exhibit can be requested from the Court of King's Bench in Winnipeg.
This text came from the reporter's own file, not from a scan, so there are no misreadings in it and no spelling has been touched, including the reporter's Canadian spellings. We removed the line numbers printed down the left of every page and the page numbers, and joined each speaker's turn into a single paragraph; where the reporter broke a double dash across two lines it has been put back together. The 140 "(inaudible)" marks and the "(ph)" after names the reporter spelled by ear are the reporter's. Skibicki speaks 1,714 times, Detective Allan 1,406, Detective Danylyshyn 438 and his lawyer 15.
File #22-103187
May 17th, A.D. 2022. 5:53:58 p.m.
INTERVIEW OF JEREMY SKIBICKI
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): Come on in here. You can go grab a seat. Just turn the music off there.
(Det. Danylyshyn and accused enter interview room at 17:57:00)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: No. Yeah. Perfect. Okay, Jeremy. So like I mentioned to you --
(Det. Allan enters interview room at 17:57:08)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: -- this -- we're in room A9. This room is video and audio recorded. There's two little microphones. One behind you. One right here. There's a camera up there. Another camera above Greg's head there. So everything we do in this room is always being recorded from now on, okay. So any conversations that we have, even when you're sitting in here alone, when you're eating, all that stuff, everything is recorded, okay. So it's just important you know that. I know -- so we went over your rights and the reason for your arrest when we were in the car together. We're going to go over that again shortly. I think what we'll do first is we're going to just probably get you to take your jacket and stuff off here. That's why Greg's --
DET. ALLAN: Give you a quick search while we're in the room on the video.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Inaudible) one layer.
DET. ALLAN: I know you mentioned -- I heard something about your feet.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You mentioned something to Sergeant Johnson there (inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So we're going to have to take your shoes as well.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I'll take your jacket here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: I checked it downstairs.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: As long as I can sit, I guess I'm fine.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, fair enough. And like the washroom isn't -- isn't far from where we are. So you've got like a watch there or is that --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it's a watch.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So get the watch off.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Removes watch).
DET. ALLAN: You've got a belt. You know what? I'll give this --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, we can just put it in the front there in a small bag.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible). Do you just want to grab that.
(Det. Danylyshyn exits interview room at 17:58:32)
DET. ALLAN: Just get you to take your belt off please.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. (Inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible). Your watch.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Belt size is --
DET. ALLAN: Pardon me?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: This is like from like six or seven months.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
(Det. Danylyshyn re-enters interview room at 17:58:54)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So the belt size is gone.
DET. ALLAN: Trim it down, okay. So got that.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (Inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: So your glasses, you mentioned that you need them to see.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So you can keep them on.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: But obviously -- as long as you're stable and you're calm. If there is a concern that you might hurt yourself with them, we'll just take them away. (Inaudible). So if you can just put your hands on the wall. I'll give you a quick -- another pat down like downstairs.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That was just a quick one there. So you've got -- what's underneath your pants here?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Underneath my pants?
DET. ALLAN: Just your underwear?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Or you've got shorts on?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Just one layer?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Just come this way to the left a little bit. Take one step. Perfect. Thank you, okay. Okay, perfect. Awesome, okay. Have a seat. All good.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So yeah, like I said, we're going to step out of here for a sec. We have to move our car out of that area. They don't let us keep it there. So we're going to be about, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes. Probably not too much longer than that, we kind of need, so... When we come back, could we bring you anything?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Food. Orthodox priest. One or the other is okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: Do you want to get him on the phone -- but before you get the food do you want to get on the phone with your lawyer first? 'Cause you mentioned doing that or do you want to get the food first and eat? It's your choice.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Food.
DET. ALLAN: And then once that's done we'll go over the (inaudible). So far you've been advised that --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. When we were on scene there on Henderson Highway, I went over with you -- I'll turn this off here. (Turns off phone). Just I explained to you why you're under arrest. You're under arrest right now for the murder of Rebecca Contois, okay. You explained to me that you understood that, right. And I went over your legal rights. You have a right to speak with a lawyer and you can do so. You said that you wish to do that. At this time Legal Aid is who you'll be speaking with?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. And then obviously I mentioned to you that, you know, anything that you do while you're in our custody can be used as evidence. Those kinds of things, okay. So important that you still understand that and that still applies. And I'm going to come -- we're going to come back in here and go over it with you again in all that detail. But just we do it. I have a pretty easy job here. I've just got to make sure you understand your rights, right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And make sure you fully understand that, and then basically we'll get into the other stuff.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: That's first and foremost. So do you understand --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Inaudible).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Do you understand all that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I do.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Perfect, okay. So we're going to get you food first.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Then we'll come -- once you've eaten, go over that stuff and hook you up with a lawyer as soon as --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: -- as soon as we can.
DET. ALLAN: Any food allergies? Like is a sandwich and a glass of water -- a bottle of water good?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's fine.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right. We'll be back.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
(Detectives exit interview room at 18:01:47)
(Det. Danylyshyn re-enters interview room at 18:01:48)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I should actually mention, sorry. If we aren't in this room and you need something, you can knock first.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: But if no one answers right away. Like give them a minute or two at most.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Just press that button.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: This, someone will talk to you from that room that we just kind of came from.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Where there's all those people kind of around the desk there.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And then they'll get in touch with us.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. So just -- really, like if you need anything, you have to ask.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I'll be fine. (Inaudible).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right. We'll be back.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: We work fast, hey.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Here's some water. A sandwich for now. Obviously I know it's not too substantial so just let us know. Like if you're still hungry after that, let us know. But this will give us enough time to go move our car. All that kind of stuff. And then we'll come back in and go over the important stuff there, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: All right.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay, Jeremy.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: You doing all right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Nods head affirmative).
DET. ALLAN: I think Greg is just grabbing a phone there. So I'm going to go over this again and then once we do that we'll have it all ready for you. I'll get someone on the phone for you.
(Det. Allan re-enters interview room at 18:35:33)
DET. ALLAN: So the phone is sorted out.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right. So I'm not going to waste any time. I'm just going to go over this stuff again with you. I know we went over it in the car. Like I said, just important that you fully understand and also just for the purpose -- 'cause we're on video now I want to make sure that we go over it again and make sure it's very clear understood that we're providing you with your rights, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So you're going to have to, just for me -- it's Jeremy --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Skibicki.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Skibicki, okay. Sorry. So Jeremy, right now it's 6:36 p.m. It's May 17th. Tuesday, May 17th. And so right now you're under arrest for the murder of Rebecca Contois, which occurred May 15th to May 16th, some time in that period, of this year, in the City of Winnipeg, okay. Do you understand that that's what you're under arrest for right now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay Jeremy, you have the right to retain and instruct counsel in private without delay. This means that before we proceed with our investigation, you may call any lawyer you wish or get free legal advice from duty counsel immediately. If you want to call duty counsel, we will provide you with a telephone and telephone numbers. If you wish to contact any other lawyer, a telephone and a telephone book will be provided. If you are charged with an offence, you may also apply to Legal Aid for assistance. Do you understand that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Do you want to call duty counsel or any other lawyer?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Who would you like to call?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just anyone from Legal Aid.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Legal Aid, okay. We can -- we can make that happen. So I'll just say this quickly before I put you on the phone. You are not bound to say anything, but any word or act while in the custody of the police may be subject to written, audio and/or video recording. Any such recording may be used as evidence. Do you understand?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. I know I made it pretty clear already. We're in a video room. Everything is being recorded and hear what we do. So just so you're fully aware of that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: The only time that it's not being recorded is when you're on the -- if you're on the phone with your lawyer or having interactions with a lawyer.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: We'll very (inaudible) we'll kind of organize it and will say, "Okay. Video is off. You're now in private." And we'll close the door. Again, when you're done with the lawyer, we're a distance away so we can't hear anything, so you've just got to bang on the door. We'll kind of yell back, "Are you done?" Confirm it. And then we'll turn the video back on. Fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: All right.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So we'll step out. We'll get that phone call for you, and then --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: You stay here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. We'll pass you the phone in here. Turn everything off like Greg said, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Hey, man. I'm not sure if you caught any of that or not, but basically -- so I called Legal Aid. I spoke with one of the on-call lawyers there. His name is Connor Penerin (ph). Connor is, I guess, still kind of a bit of a student. He's still kind of learning and they're not, I guess, approved to give you advice when facing a murder charge. So what he's doing is just getting in touch with his supervisor who is Kent Strang, and Kent will be giving us a call.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: All right.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So sound good to you?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So we're just going to wait for his call back and then we'll come back in and get you on the phone with Kent.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Knocks on door
(Det. Allan re-enters interview room at 19:17:22)
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I just had a question.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Can I speak before you go? Adam is on the phone right now with a lawyer.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: The one who is going to talk to you. He's grilling Adam with questions right now. So I guess Adam is trying to get him to come help you. He's talking to a Peter Kingsley.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. I'll just do that first, I guess.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. I really don't want to talk until you have a chance to talk about it. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. You're okay with everything else here in terms of comfort?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (in doorway) (On telephone) -- and then I'm just going to -- I'll make sure the video is turned off here before you guys continue, okay. All right. (Off telephone) Okay. Jeremy, you're going to have to come here 'cause we just kind of pass the phone through. So this is Peter Kingsley.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (in doorway). Okay. He's one of the directors at Legal Aid.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (in doorway). I'm going to close the door. We can kill it. We can cut the video now, okay. So --
(Recording stops at 19:30:00 - recording resumes at 19:47:47)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (in doorway) Did you guys hang up?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
(Detectives re-enter interview room at 19:47:55)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. So I guess -- you spoke with Peter Kingsley on the phone.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I know in my conversation with Peter he had mentioned to me that another lawyer would be coming down here by the name of Kevin Sneesby. My understanding is Kevin may already be on his way down. I don't want to know anything about your conversation with Peter, that's between you and him, but the one thing I just ask is is Kevin coming down to speak with you? Did he mention that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I believe so.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Perfect.
DET. ALLAN: Do you want to talk to Kevin?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure I do.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. So then what we'll do is we'll just kind of step out. Wait for Kevin to get here, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: In the meantime, do you need anything else. You still have some water there. Would you like something different to drink if you're not a water guy or do you want like pop or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I avoid any kind of like -- anything that's like (inaudible) natural. I try to eat clean.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Water's fine. Just another sandwich if that's okay.
DET. ALLAN: Sure.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, we can do that. And you're all good. Need the bathroom or anything?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not at the moment.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Sounds good.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (Provides sandwich).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Thank you.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, no problem. All right. So if you don't need anything else, we'll just wait till Kevin gets here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I was discussing with the lawyer and that, just with my own personal thoughts, I think that it would be for the best if like if I was discussing anything with you guys if -- I don't necessarily need to have an orthodox priest physically here, but just one on the phone because I want to admit to the truth. Because this is something that -- I mean, like I would be personally putting myself at risk even though I'm not, you know, necessarily guilty of anything. It's just something that I feel compelled to do because like this is something that demands justice.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: You know like something --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Well, I'll tell you what. I know you've already spoken with Peter. I would like you to speak with Kevin when he gets here. I think it's meaningful to speak with your lawyer in person.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I think that's why they come.
(Det. Allan re-enters interview room at 19:51:43)
DET. ALLAN: (Provides sandwich)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I think it just maybe holds a little more weight and it's more meaningful.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I'd like that to happen first before. And apologies for earlier when you said that. I probably dismissed it. I thought you were kind of joking. Apologize for that. I've never had a request like that before. So certainly, you know, I'll talk to my Sergeant about it. Like I said, I've never experienced that before so I'm not sure where we go with that, but you can certainly talk to Kevin when he gets here, and then we'll be open to talk to you about whatever.
DET. ALLAN: What's that?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Just he asked to -- I guess, after speaking with Kevin, at some point to actually speak with a priest.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just one that is able to, you know, be present.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Because I want to admit to the truth because this is, you know, something I have to --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So that would be like -- we don't do that. Generally, for the most part, I mean we're talking about --
DET. ALLAN: I don't think that falls into like your legal rights.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: We can talk to a supervisor and see if there's any -- any basis for that. I don't think that there is, but that's just kind of where we're at. Like your legal rights are -- your lawyer is obviously well versed in the law.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: That's why you have the opportunity to talk to them there. They're experts in that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Maybe he can figure it out.
DET. ALLAN: The reason you have the right to talk to a lawyer is, from my understanding, it's your legal jeopardy. You don't really have like a religious jeopardy here in terms of what we're doing here right now.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: I can see how that could be discussed or interpreted differently. I certainly understand that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I can appreciate where you're coming from, absolutely. So like I said, we'll talk to our sergeant about it, but like Greg said, it's not really what we do here. Essentially you're given your legal rights. So to have your lawyer. Speak with your lawyer. For your lawyer to be present. To speak with you here. You know, for youths we allow youths to speak with a parent or guardian or someone appropriate.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: But that is sort of the extent of it, okay. So we'll leave it at that for now. We'll talk to our sergeant and then we'll let you talk to Kevin when he gets here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Hey, Jeremy, okay. So Mr. Sneesby is here to speak with you. This is him here. We'll just -- just getting a chair and a table for him so you guys can have a conversation.
(Det. Allan re-enters interview room at 20:17:48)
DET. ALLAN: (Provides table).
(Det. Allan exits interview room at 20:17:49)
KEVIN SNEESBY (in hallway): Thank you very much.
(Kevin Sneesby enters interview room at 20:17:53)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. So yeah, Mr. Sneesby, this is Jeremy. We're going to step out. Once we're stepped out of the room, we'll turn the video off. I'll just give it a knock just so you know -- we confirmed that it's off.
KEVIN SNEESBY: Sounds good.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And you guys get going, okay.
KEVIN SNEESBY: All right.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And then whenever you're done, same process, just knock on the door.
KEVIN SNEESBY: Absolutely.
DET. ALLAN: Just got to bang loud because we're --
KEVIN SNEESBY: Yeah. In a little while so...
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Thanks.
(Detectives exit interview room at 20:18:20)
(Recording stops at 20:18:24 - recording resumes at 21:43:44)
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): It's turned on.
KEVIN SNEESBY: I think he needs to go to the bathroom. Wouldn't mind a soda pop.
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): Yeah, that's not a problem at all.
(Det. Danylyshyn re-enters interview room at 21:43:49)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: The video is back on now just so you know.
KEVIN SNEESBY: Yeah, okay. That sounds good. And the other thing is I just left my card.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sure.
KEVIN SNEESBY: With cell phone number on the back.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
KEVIN SNEESBY: It's got the number on the front.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
KEVIN SNEESBY: I didn't know if I should be giving it to you or to him.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, you've got to leave it with me for now, but we'll just (inaudible). Yeah, it's all good.
KEVIN SNEESBY: Perfect.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
KEVIN SNEESBY: All right. (Det. Danylyshyn and Kevin Sneesby exit interview room at 21:44:08)
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): So yeah, we'll get -- maybe -- he's got to go to the washroom.
KEVIN SNEESBY: And so you said that's --
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): (Inaudible). So do you want to escort him down and (inaudible). DET. ALLAN (in hallway): Yeah.
KEVIN SNEESBY: That's great.
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): Perfect. Thank you very much. Take care.
KEVIN SNEESBY: No problem.
(Det. Danylyshyn re-enters interview room at 21:44:18)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I can take you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: You can just leave that stuff there. It's like literally just around the corner here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just holding my pants up here.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, for sure.
(Det. Danylyshyn and accused exit interview room at 21:44:30)
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): So just in here. If you need toilet paper (inaudible).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: You got a preference for what you would like or... I don't know exactly what we have, but probably nothing too crazy. Probably like Coke or Pepsi or...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Anything. I normally don't drink pop. It's just -- probably just have something, I guess.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Would you rather like a coffee? Like are you looking for some caffeine, or what are you looking for?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Actually, you know what? Coffee could be better. You don't have honey instead of sugar here do you?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I don't think so.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I just --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: It's going to be pretty bare bones. I mean, like you know, we're bad for that. Unfortunately, we've got a bunch of junk food for the most part.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: It's mostly just for snacking and stuff like that so...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'll just have a Coke. If I'm going to be having white sugar, I might as well just have a soda pop.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Just go all in.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right. Okay. Yeah, give me a sec. I'll bring it back. I'll just get this out of the way for you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Anything else besides the Coke? Like I said I know -- it sounds like you're a clean eater. We've kind of got mostly junk food, but --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I mean, it's --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And if you need to eat something, you know what I mean? Like more substantial, just let me know and we'll try and make some arrangements for that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Is there literally just sandwiches?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Well, there's Pizza Pops.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That might be a little bit better.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. 'Cause I have a gut leak.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So you know, (inaudible) bothers my stomach. So wheat gluten bread seems to make it worse. Pizza Pops probably not that much different, but I'll see maybe if it upsets my stomach a little bit less.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sure. So a couple of Pizza Pops and a Coke?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I guess so.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Hi.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right. Sorry, we don't have plates. So I just -- I didn't handle it or anything like that. So there you go. It might be a little warm. (Provides Pizza Pop). I got you just a little paper towel here too and a Coke. So hopefully that's going to sit well with you. You don't want us to make like any other arrangements for food for you or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I mean, I would think maybe like once every like three, four hours, something like that, same thing.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Well, we'll -- yeah, I mean, we'll cross that bridge when it comes. If you're hungry, you tell us.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: But I just want to make sure. Like you said you don't have white sugar and this. Like I'm just --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm just going to have to deal with whatever I have here. 'Cause I mean like -- 'cause I've got to eat it, you know, at drop-ins and stuff like that. Sometimes, like if I have nothing else to eat then I'll eat it. Yeah, just as long as I keep it to a minimum and it's not every day I'm okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. All right. Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, thanks.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Good for now then?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I'm going to leave you be for a little bit, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right. Sounds good.
(Door opens at 22:06:45)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (in doorway). Hey.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's getting a little cold in here.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (in doorway). Oh, do you want a blanket?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (in doorway). Yeah, sure. Give me one sec, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Hi.
DET. ALLAN: Hello, sir. So first, I'm not sure -- I'm sure we don't need to ask. Are you satisfied with the legal advice you received from Mr. Sneesby?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I still need a blanket though 'cause I'm --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. So we've got that here. It's outside the room. So with just kind of in the threshold of the doorway is two of our Ident officers. So under The Identifications Act and (inaudible), our officers here are going to -- they're going to document some of the things about you and your person.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: They're going to look at your body. They're going to, you know, look at your hands. Things of that nature.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: What exactly they do is their business. They'll give you some great directions what you need to do. The one thing I need to tell you is that we have the legal right to do this and we can use force if we have to.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: I don't anticipate to use force 'cause you've been very good to deal with so far.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: We're just going to let them come in the room here and they're going to do what they've got to do.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: And if you have any questions or anything like that, you can ask them and we'll just be outside the room. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And once they're done, we're going to give you some paper clothing to wear --
(Det. Danylyshyn exits interview room at 22:26:20)
DET. ALLAN: 'cause we'll be seizing some of your items. And we'll definitely give you a blanket, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
(Det. Allan exits interview room at 22:26:29)
(Constables enter interview room at 22:26:30)
I/CONST. AESSIE: Hi, Jeremy. I'm Constable Aessie. This is my partner, Constable Devries (ph). So like this officer just explained we're just going to take some photographs of you. I'll have you stand up and we'll do some three sixty photos.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm. I/CONST. AESSIE: Just take some close-ups of your face, your hands. Ask you if you have any injuries and do some hand swabs with just a -- it's like a Q-tip and water. Take about five, ten minutes tops, and then we'll let you have your blanket and whatever else you need, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I/CONST. AESSIE: Perfect. So if you can stand up for me and just face me to start. This flash is a bit bright so I'm just warning you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm. I/CONST. AESSIE: If you want to hike those up a bit. So if you just put your hands beside your -- just like --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, sort of. My pants are going to fall down so... I/CONST. AESSIE: Are they going to? Okay. Well, kind of try and hang on to them there. (Photos taken). Can I have you take your glasses off for one of the photos. You can hang onto them and you can put them on again right away. (Photo taken). Okay, perfect. And if you can face that wall for me. I/CONST. DEVRIES: (Inaudible). I/CONST. AESSIE: You can stay in front of the chair, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, okay. I/CONST. AESSIE: Yeah. Just exactly in place. Perfect. Thank you. (Photos taken). Perfect. And if you can face the opposite wall. Look this way. (Photos taken). Okay. And I'll have you face away from me. So your back to me. (Photos taken). Okay. So I'll just have you sit down for this next series of photos. You can hike up your pants again there if you want to get comfortable. We're going to be giving you some disposal clothing 'cause we're just going to check you for injuries and stuff, but for the time being we'll (inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. So what I'll do no is if you can put your hands together like this for me (indicating). (Photos taken). Do you have any injuries you want to tell me about?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just psoriasis on my skin (indicating). I/CONST. AESSIE: On your skin.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Hands. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. Is that what's happening on the top of your hands there --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I/CONST. AESSIE: -- with the psoriasis? Okay. And I'll just photo -- go back to this position here (indicating).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: This? I/CONST. AESSIE: Yeah, perfect. Thank you. (Photo taken). And if I can have you put your hands like this (indicating). (Photos taken). Okay. Just going to -- you have nothing on your head or anything? Any injuries; no?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. All right. Did you want to swab him now and then we'll look at his -- I/CONST. DEVRIES: Yeah, we'll get the hand swabs done first if you want to hold on a sec.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
(I/Const. Devries exits interview room at 22:29:53)
I/CONST. AESSIE: So he's just going to use like a Q-tip and just distilled water.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. I/CONST. AESSIE: Swab your hands. (I/Const. Devries re-enters interview room at 22:30:34) I/CONST. DEVRIES: Okay. We'll start with the right hand. (Swabs hand). Okay. I'll get you to flip it over, okay. I'll be back and go grab the left.
(I/Const. Devries exits interview room at 22:31:06 - re-enters interview room at 22:31:38)
I/CONST. DEVRIES: All right. We'll do the same thing again. Oh, sorry about that. (Swabs hand). (Inaudible). Thank you, okay. I/CONST. AESSIE: I'll wait till your back and then we'll just (inaudible). I/CONST. DEVRIES: I'll grab the --
(I/Const. Devries exits interview room at 22:32:20 - re-enters interview room at 22:32:33)
I/CONST. DEVRIES: All right. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. So if we could have you take your shirt off. You can stand up and we'll give you a disposal shirt just as soon as we check you for injuries. And you can just pass it to my partner there that shirt. I/CONST. DEVRIES: I'll take that. Be right back. I/CONST. AESSIE: And you have no injuries as far as you're aware.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Shakes head negative).
(I/Const. Devries exits interview room at 22:32:48)
I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. (Photos taken). If I can have you just stand facing that wall again and do the same. (Photos taken). Okay. And the opposite wall. (I/Const. Devries re-enters interview room at 22:33:13) I/CONST. AESSIE: (Photos taken). Okay. And your back towards me again. I/CONST. DEVRIES: Your flash is firing backwards. I/CONST. AESSIE: (Photos taken). Just have an old injury here, but I'll just photograph it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure. I/CONST. DEVRIES: (Inaudible). I/CONST. AESSIE: (Photos taken). I/CONST. DEVRIES: We just take pictures with and without a ruler so you'll feel the ruler up against your skin. I/CONST. AESSIE: (Photos taken). That's a scar. I/CONST. DEVRIES: Yeah. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. You can face me again. Make sure I've got everything there. Okay, perfect. (Inaudible) a shirt. Do you have underwear on?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I do. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay, perfect. So you can put that on. (Provides shirt). And we're just going to check your legs and your feet.
(I/Const. Devries exits interview room at 22:34:03)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm. I/CONST. AESSIE: And then we'll get you to put some pants on right after that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure. I/CONST. AESSIE: And we'll get you a blanket too soon. Actually, it goes forward, sorry.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh. I/CONST. AESSIE: It's not like a hospital gown. Just put it on forward. It's a lot easier to button. Yeah, it's confusing.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. Interesting.
(I/Const. Devries re-enters interview room at 22:34:42)
I/CONST. AESSIE: Perfect.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. We'll have you just take your jeans off. You can keep your underwear.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm. I/CONST. AESSIE: And your socks as well please. And we'll just check your legs and then we're almost finished. I/CONST. DEVRIES: Can I have your jeans.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I/CONST. DEVRIES: Thank you. I/CONST. AESSIE: And also do your socks.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Or -- just give him my socks too? I/CONST. AESSIE: Yeah. I/CONST. DEVRIES: Yeah, I'll -- I/CONST. AESSIE: Yeah, we're going to give you little booties. I just want to check out your feet.
(I/Const. Devries exits interview room at 22:35:11)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. So again, no injuries as far as you're aware, right?
(I/Const. Devries re-enters interview room at 22:35:21)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, nothing recent. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. (Photo taken). Okay. I'll have you just sit down and then I'll just have you pull up the -- from your thighs a bit.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Psoriasis right there (indicating). I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. Gotcha. (Photo taken). Okay. And then if we can have you stand up and face away from me and do the back of your legs. Thank you. (Photo taken). And then -- hang on. Just stay like that for a second.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm. I/CONST. AESSIE: (Photo taken). And if I can have you just -- you can just put your hands against the wall and just pop one foot up at a time for me just so I can see underneath your foot.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. Yeah. I/CONST. AESSIE: (Photo taken). I/CONST. DEVRIES: Do you want to do that on this wall? I/CONST. AESSIE: Yeah, maybe we'll do that 'cause I don't have enough room there. I/CONST. DEVRIES: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Same foot? I/CONST. AESSIE: Yeah, if you can -- yeah, perfect (photo taken). Okay, perfect. Yeah, and the other one. Thank you. (Photo taken). Okay. Can have a seat again. I'll just take a photo of the top of your feet and then we'll get you some booties and pants. Do you just want to put them a little bit together. (Photo taken). Perfect. Thank you so much.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. We'll get him some pants. I/CONST. DEVRIES: All right.
(I/Const. Devries exits interview room at 22:36:42)
I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. You can just put all this on. Did you want to speak with him at all before we close the door?
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): Yeah, just bring in the blanket. I/CONST. AESSIE: Okay. These officers will get you a blanket and they'll kind of tell you what's next. Thanks for your co-operation. I/CONST. DEVRIES: Thank you very much. I/CONST. AESSIE: And here's some booties. Thank you. I/CONST. DEVRIES: And they'll be back shortly with your blanket.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
(Constables exit interview room at 22:37:10)
(Det. Danylyshyn re-enters interview room at 22:37:15)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I'll let you get that on first.
(Det. Allan re-enters interview room at 22:37:19)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Those things are kind of awkward, hey?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: They're not the greatest, but hey, it's something. (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it's more comfortable actually.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Hey, whatever is more comfortable, okay. Here's a blanket for you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So we're going to just step out for a little bit here. Just Greg and I haven't had anything to eat yet so we're just going to grab a quick bite.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I know you've had a little bit to eat. Had a little bit to drink. You've gone to the washroom. There's been a lot going on obviously. People coming in and going out. Whatever. So if you need to lay down and have a little rest, by all means do that. Let's just take a little bit of time so we can kind of regroup here. All three of us, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And then --
DET. ALLAN: Do you need anything right now? Like I know you've kind of --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I figure.
DET. ALLAN: What's that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I figure I'm good.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. If for some reason -- do you want to mention before -- you're on a recorded room and just say, "Hi, officers" or whatever. 'Cause any time we're out of the room it's still recording. But also you can just hit this button. Obviously it takes us some time to get here 'cause we're in a different part of the building. So if you need to use the washroom let's not wait to the last second.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right. Yeah, fair.
DET. ALLAN: Do you want to use the washroom now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, maybe. Yeah. Just to kind of pre-empt this.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. (Inaudible). You're good?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Hey, pants that don't fall off.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. Yeah, exactly, hey. Has some benefits.
DET. ALLAN: Just because of the way we do things, we like everything documented, it protects you and it protects me --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: When we're outside of the room to use the washroom, did we talk about anything other than using the washroom?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: We might have. My memory is just not so good so...
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Well, I'll recap it. You exited. I showed where the washroom was.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You went in and closed the door. You knocked to get out. I said you don't have to, it's open and you come out. I pointed at the sanitizer. I said if you want to hand sanitize your hands you can.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: Came back in here. Cool.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So you've got some water. You have some soda there.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You've got a blanket. Are you good for now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Again, like I said, if you need anything just buzz or ask for something, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: Cool, man.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, thank you.
DET. ALLAN: Would you like the music on?
(Det. Allan exits interview room at 22:41:06)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No thank you. DETECTIVE 2 (in hallway): Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Hey, Jeremy.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Oh, you're awake.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, somewhat.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. You feeling okay?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. We're just going to bring our chairs and table in here and we'll -- we'll come and chat with you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right. Maybe you can sit up here. I see you lost a bootie.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, okay. Just come hop up in the chair and maybe just for now if you're feeling comfortable, yeah, just leave the blanket on the side there for a minute here. (Det. Allan re-enters interview room at 00:57:12 a.m.)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sorry it took so long there. Just had some computer -- some computer issues. (Det. Danylyshyn exits interview room at 00:57:18 a.m. - re-enters interview room at 00:57:26 a.m.)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Please hop in the chair there, big guy.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: How are you making out? Do you want a coffee or a soda or something like that? I've got coffee here. By all means if you --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Coffee is okay, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. I just drink mine black. How do you take yours?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Two sugars, three cream.
DET. ALLAN: Two sugar. They're not big cups. They're the little Tim Hortons. Smalls. So how much sugar? 'Cause it might taste like Kool-Aid if I make it like that for you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Maybe just kind of reduce it by like a third.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I can do that. Adam, you're good?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Thanks. Just keep going.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
(Det. Allan exits interview room at 00:58:23 a.m.)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So that was a lot I guess, hey. Kind of -- I don't know how it feels for you. For me it's just like -- just kind of a whirlwind of things that are going on, right, when we get in here, and it's, you know, people in and out, and it gets a little crazy. But you know, from this point on it's just kind of going to be the three of us here and we'll kind of work through things together. This is just the Prisoner Log Sheet essentially. We filled this out kind of -- it was partially filled out when we first came in.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: But I'm just going to go over a little bit -- a little bit more with you now. Just a few questions. Again, like we ask everybody this when we come in. Just known gang member or associate. Do you associate with any gangs or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Shakes head negative).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: No. Is that a no?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That is a no.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Got that. So property and things like that, I know you have your glasses with you and those -- I know you have some trouble. You're near sighted?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Near sighted, yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. So if you need those at any time, just feel free -- you've got them -- you've got them kind of --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: For sure. Just right there.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: -- at your disposal there. Your other property, you know, was kind of all documented already, but members of our Ident unit came in here and they seized some of those things. So they're going to document those things. I don't really have much more for you here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: At this point. Just a few other questions here, Jeremy. Medical conditions, like heart problems, epilepsy, asthma. Anything that we need to know about?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not anything that is like an urgency medically.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Okay. Do you take -- do you require any medication while you're kind of here with us?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, medical cannabis but I mean that's up to like nurses or whatever. If there is any kind of form that they would allow.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I'm not sure.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. For us here, I mean like you're not -- this is not going to be anything long term, like you know.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: But certainly -- I don't know. Whatever. Can look at that down the road. I'm sure you can get in touch with somebody. So for now nothing. Nothing else?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. I know we spoke to you when you came in. Asked you if you had been drinking or doing drugs or anything like that. You said you hadn't. Is that --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's correct.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Are you feeling suicidal at all?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Shakes head negative).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Any mental health issues that you'd like us to be aware of?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Like the diagnosis. I mean, -- but nothing that is like -- you know, like an urgent matter.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But you still would like to know what the diagnosis are?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Well, yeah. I mean, if there's -- if you've been diagnosed with something you feel it's important that we know about it, sure.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I have borderline personality disorder.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: PTSD.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. So no street drug user. I don't think we're talking about cannabis really anymore, but are you into anything else?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I've been in recovery from meth for like -- maybe like seven years. Something like that.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. What does recovery look like for you? Are you still using from time to time or..? Heavily using right now or..? I know recovery means -- can mean a lot of different things, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And it's a different process for everybody.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I guess I can be pretty specific. (Det. Allan re-enters interview room at 01:02:15 a.m.)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I had a period of about three years. I was sober up until last year.
DET. ALLAN: (Provides coffee to accused).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Last year I had a couple of minor slips, meaning I used twice. I used less than a gram.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And then by the time I used the second time I realized, okay, well, I mean this is not a matter of willpower. I need to get back into treatment. So I went into a detox and then I went to AFM for awhile and then to Bruce Oake.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So after that I was sober for like -- well, exactly... I think it was like five months. Something like that.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And then I had a couple more relapses. I think it was because I wasn't in treatment long enough.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: This year I used probably less than two grams.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And I mean that's like way better than like before my three years of sobriety because before then it was like more like daily use.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sure.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And like really struggling with, you know, treatment and stuff like that. It was --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Even Gospel Mission a couple of times.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So yeah. Like I mean, like it's been up and down. Like I guess if you were to look at it on like -- on like a chart or a scale of some -- you know, visual nature. Like you'd kind of see like a gradual -- you know, kind of like a more a trend of sobriety.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So something has been working for you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Which is good, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: What did you find had the greatest impact on you? You named a few different places --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: -- and things that you have been into. I mean, out of curiosity what was -- what worked for you?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That was definitely my experience at UGM. I can't say it was like a program itself.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But yeah, that had to do more or less with kind of like a spiritual experience.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That I had.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And that was at the beginning of that seven years I guess you could say.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sure, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Because yeah -- like it was more than just a change in perspective. Like I'd like to say that, you know, like when that happened like everything was over. It wasn't so much, you know, like my addiction was over and done with. But I mean I had, you know, the power to get through it.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: You know, like my self- awareness.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I guess before that I was kind of like -- I realized I was like lying to myself.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That like you know, I'd be telling other people, okay, you know, I'm going to stop and whatever. But I started to recognize these patterns and whatnot.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And you know, I felt like I was --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: More aware.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Like I thought I was just, you know, done with use or whatever. I think that's how I was able to get through that three years. And part of that was, I guess, in the marriage that I went through. Like I had some difficulties with that. Like I don't talk to her anymore.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But yeah. Like it was quite difficult for me because like she was still using, but I was sober.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And that situation kind of like really burnt me up. 'Cause I put everything into that and there was some things that happened, and yeah. Like I mean, part of it was because like I couldn't exercise.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I slipped in my tub like in 2020 and I busted my seventh rib in two places.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I landed on this side (indicating).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: This side broke immediately and then the opposite side broke at the same time, and I didn't know this side was broken until like months later (indicating).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 'Cause I got a second x- ray. Like I was mentioning, I had issues with my knees.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I need surgery in both of them.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So at that point, like I couldn't do anything for exercising. It took me about like a year and two months before I could even stretch my arms out all the way.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And I kept re-injuring myself --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- in order to get better.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like over and over. And yeah, I mean like I could go on like with circumstances and whatever, but it was just a very, very difficult time for me.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And then I guess I started to kind of like backslide because I -- yeah. Like by the time I wanted to start going to the gym I required a vaccine pass which I didn't feel comfortable --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- doing.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I mean, that was very important. Like I mean, they're asking like what is -- you know, like what would be like -- you know, kind of the key or like most important part.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's -- it's an important factor.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Like exercise?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (Inaudible). Completely agree with you, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I wouldn't have been able to, you know, got to where I did without it so... I guess it's all kind of important to mention.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. No, that's good to know. And I guess, you know -- well, we spoke a little bit about that. Obviously you know, I can finish this in a little bit here and come back to it, but I guess, yeah, when we kind of met you on Henderson there. We had you in the handcuffs there, the Tacticals, the pro team members had placed you in handcuffs. And then Greg and I came and we met with you and brought you to our car. That's sort of when I went over things in my book and whatnot. And as we were bringing you here, I think we talked a little bit about -- about some of those things, right. And one of the main things I know -- like when you're talking about exercise and things like that, we talked about kind of our battle. What we enjoy as -- see as almost like a -- a little bit of an internal battle against the elements, right. We talked about your winter walking. I had my winter running and how that kind of plays into that. I know for me, like I've dealt with back injuries too where I'm not able to run, and I can tell you like it's pretty easy to slip into -- at least for myself, like slip into like a bit of a depression.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And you just start feeling not so great, right. And I can totally see how you're saying like exercise and that plays a big role in your mental health and things like that too, so... Definitely battling injuries and things like that don't allow us to do those things that we really enjoy. It's a huge factor. So what -- I mean -- I guess you were a gym goer, or was that your thing or what was your kind of method of exercising? What did you like doing? Was it sort of the gym for you or..? Like for me, I'm not a gym guy. I don't know if you can tell. Like I just kind of (indicating). (Inaudible) but I mean --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm not in condition so like I don't know if it was the gym -- from the gym or something else, but you know, can't say you weren't in a gym or were. You look like you're conditioned somehow.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Oh, no. I like to stay fit. I just meant like -- what I'm getting at is just kind of what was your -- I know we talked about you like to walk and do those kinds of things and where you kind of talked about going to the gym, hitting the weights. Are you into that kind of stuff too or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I used to like walking a lot more, but right now I have the mobility issues.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But yeah, I was a power lifter.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: For something like nine years.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And that's not including, you know, time I took for (inaudible). A good chunk of my life I guess. Yeah, other than that, like I was not really too big into other sports. Like I was never much into like cardio and stuff like that. So primarily it was the gym. What's the word? Calisthenics. Using your own body weight. You know, chin-ups.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And other stuff like that.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah, when I was in here, like I haven't done in that so long, but I did -- I managed to do 10 vertical push-ups.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: In here?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Did you?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Oh. How did that feel?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Very good. I wasn't sure if I could do one.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Like today you did?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Wow. I don't think I could do it. (Inaudible) my shoulders would pop.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it takes a while to get conditioned, but you know like I still --
DET. ALLAN: I don't think my shoulders could fucking take it, right. Sorry, I sweared.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So I know we're like way off topic here, but whatever. Do you think -- is it the nine years as a power lifter, has that contributed to your knee issues or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, yes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. I was going to say like --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's how I injured my knees.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I bet, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Do you want to know specifically how or..?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: No. I just --
DET. ALLAN: How did you hurt them?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, basically I was doing weighted squats, but I guess because I was an amateur at the time -- it was like kind of maybe three year -- three years into that nine years when I injured my knee. So like the shock went to my knees. And I'm sure if you know much about (inaudible) link to the patella. They tell you it has to do with the -- what is it? Can't remember the exact wording, but it has to do with like the patella joint and how it connects to the knee. A tracking issue or something like that.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I would describe it more if I can remember, but yeah, like that's all I can kind of remember from the physiotherapist or whatever.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But I know that it's -- something that can sometimes get better on its own.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But this is something I tried for many years. Like vigorously doing everything I could to get it better.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But it just never did. So like even like three, four years ago, I was going through kind of like what surgery options I had.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And do I have to do surgery, but it's at a point where like you know, nothing else is working.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Well, you can only do so much rehab on your own, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: This is discouraging to hear this, man. I'm not going to lie to you. Like my back and hip issues that I'm talking about, like it's been a year now and like I can't -- it's just not right. I don't want to end up -- like I don't want to get surgery, but I hear your story and I'm like what's going to happen if I keep going down that road, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I can do 15 vertical push- ups. I mean, it's just -- I try not to kind of look at what, you know, I can't do, because if I did that it would just be like frustrating. So I just kind of like try to focus on what I can -- you know, what I can do. You know, just try to do all...
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. So I know you mentioned your knees. You've got some -- like foot kind of issues. Are they issues or something you've had your whole life or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Had flat feet my whole life without realizing it.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And then I saw a doctor first about foot pain. He referred me to Dr. Fernandos, a podiatrist. He had a look at my feet. Told me to walk over and over. Like he was observing my, you know, walking, whatever. He was able to determine, you know, kind of what problems I had with my feet based on my symptoms. So there's like a whole bunch of medical information that's, you know, in his office somewhere. It's the Power Building, I think, on Portage, where his office was.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know where that is.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I just -- I wish I could remember the specific names. Like I know it had like a -- ew, bunions, bunionettes. Like if you would take my foot, for example, and you kind of feel it, like it will kind of like split apart because there's bone deformity (indicating). (Inaudible).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, let's not do that.
DET. ALLAN: You're a strong guy. I don't need you to break your foot here and be like all weird.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. It's just -- I'll just put it this way. Like my foot should not be this flat.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: With the points coming out here and here (indicating).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And like if I'm walking without my orthotics it will get progressively like worse and worse.
DET. ALLAN: Oh yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So like I mean I can physically walk without it, but I am limited by pain and -- yeah, I don't know what else I can really describe about it. But yeah, it's just -- oh yeah, I used to be able to just walk and walk and walk after I got my custom orthotics at first.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But because of the neuropathy or whatever it's just -- yeah, it's just gotten worse over the years so even with the orthotics I can only stand so many hours before it becomes too painful.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And it's like cumulative pain. Like if I was to stand like five, six hours every day --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- constantly like I'd be in too much pain to stand eventually.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: How much are orthotics?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: For me they're free because, yeah, he covered it, but normally like -- well, they're like three (inaudible) or whatever so --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- they're not cheap.
DET. ALLAN: I've got a pair in my shoes and (inaudible) is so fucking -- the doctor said it's so beat up and it's just getting -- like I need new ones, but they're so expensive so...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I see you have good shoes at least.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I have to constantly get them replaced. I'm very fortunate to have something that fits. Yeah, it's just -- yeah, because my feet are particularly wide so it's definitely a problem.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, to find something that fits. But if I go to like -- what's it called? Canadian Footwear sometimes.
DET. ALLAN: On King there? Princess?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Where I got my orthotics.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Exchange District. I forget the name of the street there.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: It's crazy, yeah. I mean, like obviously you learn a lot about your body when things are going wrong, hey. It's too bad they don't teach you before that. Well, could probably do a little better job in gym class instead of just playing floor hockey. They could teach you, you know, certain things you need to do to take care of your body. Or if they did, maybe I wasn't paying enough attention. But I've found three injuries. I'm learning a lot and it's just like it's kind of unfortunate that I didn't -- wasn't more preventative. Not that you can do anything about something you're born with, but certainly getting you into the proper orthotics and things like that early enough would be helpful I'm sure.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think that kind of consisted of, "Mom, do I have flat feet?" "No, you don't."
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You sound like a physiotherapist when you're talking (inaudible). You could be making all the words up and I don't have a hot clue what's going on, but you do sound -- like a couple of joints and I'm like what's -- yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I mean I try to -- you know, try to be as clear as possible with what I know, and if I don't know I try not to waffle because that's (inaudible).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And so I guess, you had mentioned EI and things like that. So what's going on with that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Are you able to work at all right now or what's the scope with that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm on EIA. Yeah, like I mean -- I'll give you an example. Like there was, you know, a couple of times where I was assisting Ryan. Like doing work in the other suite like. And he would just, you know, help me with like food or whatever just because he's aware that like you know, if I was on the payroll for caretaking or whatever that, you know, like EIA is paying attention to that. I mean, like I'm not disallowed to work, but there's only a certain amount that I can make.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I see.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I mean like let's just say, you know, my feet weren't hurting too bad I could -- if I really wanted to I could go to Smith Personnel or something and put myself through the punishment, but I'd probably need like five or six days to be off my feet after if I was on my feet all day.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So it's like technically yes I can work, but it's like you know -- you know, for how long and how often.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: For sure.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. (Inaudible) and for putting your body through punishment, right, to do it when -- yeah, I mean it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but so... And sorry, you just -- Ryan is someone who lives in the building there with you or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, his mom owns the building.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So he -- like I guess he is the property manager by default. I don't know what --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Who is Ryan to you? Like how do you know Ryan?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I've known him for like 28 years.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Oh really.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I was very blessed to --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: 28 years.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, something like that.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Did you guys grow up together? How old are you now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 35. Like we were in like elementary school together. Kind of like little kids, yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. So you grew up in the same part of town?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, in Garden City.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Oh really, hey.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: That's crazy. That's cool.
DET. ALLAN: What elementary school did you go to?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Went to Forest Park. Like went to (inaudible) together and it was Garden City. I think he graduated from Garden City. I graduated from Argyle.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Yeah. And then -- so you guys have always been tight or is it just something that you've -- did you kind of grow apart and come back together or how does -- like how -- it's just interesting. You guys have known each other so long.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. It's a little bit of that. You know, like I mean there was years where like I didn't see him or hang out with him.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But like I mean, like we've always remained in contact, but I mean -- how can I explain that. With the exception of, you know, some periods of time. You know like way back when. Well, that's a little bit jumbled up on saying that, but I'm trying to be as, you know, accurate as possible when I speak.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sure, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Does that make sense to you?
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible) is that a falling out or kind of just like crisscross paths and then as you kind of aged out of high school; is that what you mean?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Can you say that one more time? Like I just --
DET. ALLAN: You're just -- you were kind of saying your paths were kind of jumbled at times, and I'm just trying to follow. Is it something where you and Ryan were friends at times (inaudible) going through high school. You kind of just drifted apart and then kind of come back and then like just the paths through, you know, that early years.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I guess you could say that. That's true.
DET. ALLAN: Kind of probably sounds kind of normal, right. Like everyone kind of, you know, takes their own kind of route. Do things.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And I think it's like -- like I remember always having his home number, which is like -- it's the same as his cell phone number. I don't know how he managed to get the same number and an area code 431, but it's the same number I've known since I was a little kid, but with a 431.
DET. ALLAN: 632 number or what? Or 586, 589?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So it would be -- the original one was 204-338-1337.
DET. ALLAN: 339 number. Yeah, makes sense.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: It's funny 'cause we're all pretty close in age, and I still remember like -- 'cause it's just funny talking about this. I remember like going over to my buddies and when you actually get old enough -- probably like what, late elementary school or junior high, after you start hanging out on your own, I remember all their phone numbers.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, still do.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I can remember -- I don't know anybody's phone number. I don't know his phone number.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And it's just funny now 'cause (inaudible), but as a kid though --
DET. ALLAN: 'Cause you didn't have no cell phones.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, no cell phones.
DET. ALLAN: Your brain had power.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: But now you have a computer in your pocket and in your brain you've got no power.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: It's done. Yeah, does the thinking for you, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think it's more or less repetition, and I'll give you an example. Like I happen to know word for word more songs in Ecclesiastical Latin than I do in English, and it's not because of just being able to remember better. It's insane amounts of repetition. So it's just because I called him so many times as a kid.
DET. ALLAN: What kind of Latin?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Ecclesiastical Latin.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sorry?
DET. ALLAN: And what is it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah. Like kind of the other form of Latin. I think that is like kind of like what they would have spoken like Italy or whatever, which is like closer to like Italian.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Whereas Ecclesiastical Latin was the official language of the church. Of the Roman Catholic church.
DET. ALLAN: Gotcha.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So the way that they --
DET. ALLAN: The (inaudible) would have been written type thing?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not so much how it would be written, but how it would be pronounced. Because you know like there's no such thing as, you know, Ecclesiastical Latin in writing per se. As far as I'm aware 'cause that doesn't really make any sense. Like it's all the same written down, but it's like how you pronounce it.
DET. ALLAN: Kind of like Portuguese/Brazilian and then Portuguese/Portuguese.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm not sure.
DET. ALLAN: I think I understand what you're saying. I just have like a -- yeah, okay. I'm just trying to understand what it is.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Fair enough. How is Ryan -- what was your relationship with Ryan when you were married?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh. He was there. Like he was -- probably be only people that I had in my life at that time. Had a couple of people around. I have three close friends. He was one of them. The other two, Jason and Gab, I guess they kind of went down their own kind of path which was like more into the drugs or whatever and, you know, I couldn't really -- couldn't really be around them. Last time I talked to Gab was like a couple of months ago. I had to tell him to leave my apartment because he was being very disrespectful of me and there was a lot of people telling him this apparently. And normally I will look at, you know, a person's pain first before I look at, you know, their actions because I'm very -- like considerate is a word. Like very conscientious of other people's like situations. So even though he is disrespectful to me like (inaudible) times, I was very patient with him and I told him after a while like you need to go.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 'Cause like you're just being disrespectful.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Jason, that was like a couple of years before that, but yeah. Like he was my roommate for a little while when I was staying on Alloway. Like he would just like you know, not be paying his rent and stuff like that and it was -- you know, 'cause he was, you know, dealing with a meth addiction of his own.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But yeah, that was a period of time where I just -- you know, I gave him an opportunity because he said, like you know, like yeah, I want to get better. This and that. But it just didn't work out.
DET. ALLAN: It happens, I guess, hey.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: But I mean -- you know, you and Ryan obviously stayed closer. You said kind of rekindled that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So how did you come to end up kind of living in his mom's building?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I was in contact with him while I was in Bruce Oake, and I guess he had talked about a potential -- having like a spot available in one of the properties that they own.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And I guess like I could have stayed in Bruce Oake -- Bruce Oake longer, but that would have been like -- it would have been very like physically and mentally taxing for me because I wasn't able to use the medical cannabis while I was in the program.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And the program requirements were that, you know, like had to be in the classroom every day. I couldn't focus because of the pain levels.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I just made the decision to go because like you know, I felt I was ready.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But at the same time, you know, like I was looking at factors that were, you know, kind of like affecting me in like a more kind of like near and immediate way rather than looking at like you know, the long term, you know, potential pitfalls or you know, whatever you want to call it. I really didn't see myself using again, but I guess, you know, there's a lot of addicts that, you know, are either in denial. Don't plan for it or --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: You know. To me it's kind of surprising and kind of odd because like I've, you know, kind of told myself, you know, like this is, you know -- I have to accept that. That, you know, sometimes, you know, I'll have a slip because like if I'm too critical and going to have like a defeatist kind of mindset then it's going to be even worse.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sure.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Or if I'm just thinking that I'm above the addiction. That I'm not ever going to slip that's, you know --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Well, it's just a human thing too, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Like sometimes we do those things and it is what it is, right. Like I had a cigarette today, but fuck, I haven't had a cigarette in like three months.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Really?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. But you know, it's a long day. I was kind of like (inaudible). I did. But we do those things. That's just kind of our nature as --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like the Coke that I haven't had. A soda maybe as long as you had cigarettes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Like the Coke, yeah. Yeah. And you know what? Like I said -- like I said, it happens from time to time. It is what it is. So you leave Bruce Oake because Ryan, a friend of yours, a long time friend of yours, may have a place for you. And so I guess -- is he a positive influence on you or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Absolutely.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 'Cause he just -- he just -- he just smokes weed. Like I mean like he -- you know, from my understanding. He's not a saint. Like he's had a past and whatever too.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But yeah, like he's not like you know, like a hard drug user. So that's the only reason he's been around. And to kind of like back up to what you said. Like that wasn't the reason. Like I mean that was a reason. Like it was. Like it was primarily because of the physical complications and then like you know, the added psychological stress. So like it was all just kind of like a bunch of these factors that kind of --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Those were brought on from being in at Bruce Oake?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. So what do you mean by that? When I think of that, I think of it as a recovery place.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: A place that's supposed to be good for your mind and your body. What you're describing isn't -- doesn't sound like that at all.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean it's -- when I don't have medical cannabis --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- I can't focus on anything other than pain some days.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And that was at a period of time before I was diagnosed with the degenerative disk disease and osteoarthritis. That was more of a recent diagnosis. And I was seeing a chiropractor when I was there, and the chiropractor was actually making things worse.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So like I mean, I was kind of like holding onto the wall for support some days.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So it was -- like it was significantly worse than it is now, but that's also because of, you know, the chiropractor not knowing that. And then after he got that medical information --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I was worried at first. Like I didn't want to see him and there was a while he wouldn't even see me. He said I need to get like an x- ray first.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And so I got that and he was like, "Oh, I predicted this." He said -- but he said he didn't think that it would happen when I was so young, but... I can't remember exactly how he explained it, but his treatments, I mean since he got that medical information, have helped for sure.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm. Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. And so since you've been living there at -- is it Ryan's mom's building? Or does he stay there too or is he just sort of like land -- does he take care of it or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: He had someone doing the caretaking named Jeff.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I was doing kind of like a trial run kind of thing. Like I was never --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sorry. (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, like I was never paid for it or anything. Like he gave me a list of the different things that I need to do 'cause he wasn't, you know, prepared to just, you know, give me the position without, you know, being sure that I could physically meet the requirements.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And yeah. Just it became very clear that it was a situation that, you know, I wasn't able to handle so like I wasn't, you know, even the caretaker for a month.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I was supposed to take over for Jeff.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But then after I quit it left the place with technically no caretaker. Ryan does not live at the building, but I guess the duties would default to him.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible) as a caretaker, like do you have experience kind of with that? Like construction stuff or anything like that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. 'Cause I mean like whenever he would, you know, ask for help in like suite 6 -- like for example, when I was helping him in there --
DET. ALLAN: Sorry, what suite are you in?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 5.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So whenever it was something like that, like I mean he -- you know, like he wouldn't like get me to do things that were beyond my, you know, level of comprehension.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like for instance, like if it was painting or something, I have had some experience with that.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So like he would give me like a little bit to work on on my own, and he would just kind of evaluate that to see if I did an all right job with it. You know, like sanding the floor or stuff like that. He just kind of showed me.
DET. ALLAN: Here and there.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sorry?
DET. ALLAN: Like kind of like here and there. It's like he'd give you the job and start you out with it and get you on and figure out --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And if I didn't really know exactly what I was doing, he would show me. So it was just kind of like learning on the spot kind of thing. And most of it's just like you know --
DET. ALLAN: It's kind of the best way to learn though too. Depends on how your brain works. For me, like I'm -- I'm very hands on so for me it's -- that's how I learn best.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: If you're going to lecture me and tell me how to do something forever it doesn't really necessarily set up the same way or set in.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I think the word is kinaesthetic. Like I'm the same way 'cause like I learn --
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible). What?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Kinaesthetic.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like meaning like I think --
DET. ALLAN: The motor function.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- through feel and touch rather than, you know, other ways.
DET. ALLAN: What kind of jobs have you had?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, I worked like kind of like general labour. But I mean because I've had addiction problems beyond the meth addiction.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I was an addict for like something like 22 years. A long time. It was Ecstasy and other drugs, but I've been sober from Ecstasy for like a very long time. I think I might have mentioned, you know, from when I knew Tyler Omsky (ph). That's back when I used to use Ecstasy and how I was able to quit that. Oh, my God. So when I went to a doctor for help, he said I need to stop before he'll help me, and that was at a time before I knew about detox or treatments or anything. So I could have died with that because like I would have thought that the doctor would, you know, provide me with information that would be useful rather than stop --
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So like I had seizures for like -- you know, like a week or two at a time whenever I would stop. And like if I didn't have at least like three caps in a day I would start having those same seizures.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So it was a matter of like not being able to find more, I think getting through those seizures and, yeah, it was just 'cause I couldn't find anymore like. Like who -- what a great way to quit, but you know --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- that's what happened.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So you mentioned -- so you did some kind of general labour stuff.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sorry?
DET. ALLAN: You mentioned that -- so you've done like some general labour work.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, okay. Yeah, and I got sidetracked. I was talking about different things I've done for work. I've done like sales and marketing, distribution, customer service. Like a lot of stuff like over the phone. A little bit in person. I kind of really tended to do that a little bit more than physical labour because like I'm kind of like sensitive to heat. Like I could do like you know, work at Versacold, for example, when I was working Perfect Placements I think.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Or Personnel. And it was like in a freezer or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Like at Salter Bridge there? They've got one there.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I can't remember exactly where. Like it was a long time ago. I know it was Versacold. I just -- I can't remember the name of the street that it was on. But yeah, if it was like a freezer or something like that, I could do that all day. But for example, like if I -- like I had one job where like I was working directly out in the sun. I remember it was like -- I think it was doing foundation or something, and like oh my God. Like I just -- I suffered beyond suffering when I'm in the sun. I'm not designed for it.
DET. ALLAN: We're both of the same (inaudible). I don't do well in the sun either.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So --
DET. ALLAN: No.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Can I ask you like -- obviously you have a good friend that's there for you. Put you up kind of. Got you a place to stay. What about family? Like I know you said you were born and raised here. What's the deal with family, man?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I had a very rough childhood, I guess you could say. It's kind of a situation where like I don't feel like they are family. Like we're very like estranged. Like I'll see my mom and dad like you know, during Christmas, Easter. That's it.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I guess it's only good in the sense that I'm able to kind of like forgive them and, you know, accept everything as they are. That, you know, like people aren't perfect. Despite what they've done I can forgive them. And that's -- it's kind of part of my own like personal beliefs. But it doesn't mean that like I want to spend time with them or be around them or have them as support because I don't -- I don't trust them.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I just like hide information because it's just like not going to help me. They're just going to judge me. That type of thing, yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Fair. They're still here in the city though?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Any siblings or anything that --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My adopted brother, but that's about it. I never met any of my blood family. Just through the internet though when I was like 25 --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- I got a response from an adoption company. I can't remember specifically what it was, but it was like to help locate, you know, family that would have been, you know, lost for whatever reason because of adoptions.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I got a response back to an e-mail that I almost never check. Like it's like almost a miracle how I got that e-mail. So things ended up kind of like adding up that like I was for sure for sure this is my family. But yeah, that never really went anywhere. Like I never really bonded with any of them and I don't talk to them.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like closest I ever got was that half sister named Amanda Morgan.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But didn't really have any kind of discussion with her in like a couple of years now. Even over the internet.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Fair enough, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So your parents -- so you call your parents here in the city -- are they your blood parents or --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: -- you were adopted?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I was adopted.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. And your blood family, are they here, or no?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My mother, she lives in Newfoundland. And what happened was she was told by her mother -- her mother was an adopted mother too. So like I was adopted. My mother is adopted. Her mother is adopted. I have a daughter that's adopted. So our whole family is just affected.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: You know, through generations.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like my mother was an addict apparently too.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My father, I never knew him. Still kind of would like to look into like adoption records since that's like all unsealed now so you kind of have the right to look into that information such as name and whatnot, yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And sorry, you said you have a daughter. You've adopted a daughter?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. It was supposed to be an open adoption, but that was not -- not open. Like it was for the mother, but not for me.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: What does that mean, sorry? I'm not familiar with --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Well, the difference between open and close adoption, if you're not aware, close adoption it's kind of like what I went through. Like so I wouldn't really have access to my parents. Whereas an open adoption the birth parents would have access.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Does that make sense to you?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah, that's what I was going to say. That specifically why it was open for her and not for me is because she had access to our daughter. Like her name -- the mother's name is Raven Brass. And yeah, like she had access to our daughter. I didn't, even though she literally had no merits than I did other than simply being female.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: So why do you think that it's a -- what do you mean by that, 'cause she's female?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I think that is something that would be based and sexism for sure because like we both had addiction issues, but I never sought any other reason than --
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible) systemic approach.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Like I'm just a deadbeat, but she's like you know, worthy of being around simply because of gender. And that's -- I mean, like I don't complain about stuff like that or try to point it out or you know, support any kind of victim mentality, but like I'm also a very logical person and I see nothing else there. Makes sense.
DET. ALLAN: No other outside factors to -- nothing to support that decision?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Well, it seems fair. The world's certainly trending in a certain way.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Maybe. Not sure how far I want to go into that one, but it's certainly been an interesting couple of years, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Like you -- like I know kind of brought up a marriage. I'm not sure if I missed some of that --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: -- when I was out there getting coffee. So you were married? Are you still --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I am still legally married, but separated.
DET. ALLAN: What's your -- your separated wife, what's her name?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: [wife's name withheld] Leskovics (ph).
DET. ALLAN: [wife's name withheld]. And how long were you guys married for? Can you tell me about that relationship?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, that was quite tumultuous. Very difficult because it was something that was not just based on, you know, my emotions. Like I felt like I loved her. She told me that she loved me very early on. Like this is within like a couple of days of meeting her. That I decided to marry her because it was not just what I felt. It was that she was in a very precarious, dangerous situation herself because I believed her to be a human trafficking victim based on what she was telling me.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And I happened to know a lot of people she was getting drugs from. The things that she was telling me were extremely concerning. So it was -- it was a situation where like I was --
DET. ALLAN: Seemed like you were like the knight in shining armour, like kind of almost rescuing her from her circumstances?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: At the time I guess I could say that, but I mean like the way I look at it right now, I mean like that was something I really took upon myself, and I was very faithful to her. Like she cheated on me two times early on in the relationship and I actually forgave her. And it was a situation where I felt like I was blamed for cheating on her when I didn't do it. Like it was a situation where I was constantly treated like I was the cheater, and this went on for like quite a long time. And eventually I just, you know, gave up. You know, 'cause it got to a point where, you know, it was not possible to, you know, continue the relationship in any kind of way that was healthy. And it's like -- it had nothing to do with the protection order itself because like I will do what I feel is right. And I got to a point where I felt I could not help her anymore and it was not a situation that was conducive for either of us. And as much as I tried to help before, I still feel that, you know, I wouldn't have done anything differently given the knowledge and everything I had at the time.
DET. ALLAN: But in hindsight maybe.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah, for sure.
DET. ALLAN: That's a real -- that's not fair to anyone.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Yeah, because it's -- you know, like it's her choice what -- you know, what she wants to do with her life and everything like that. And she doesn't have to listen to me like at all or anything. You know, I had different views back then about marriage and whatever. I was still kind of like learning about Christianity and whatnot. A little confused about that. Because it was such a situation of desperation -- like I mean, you know, she was doing like shots in the neck like (indicating).
DET. ALLAN: Like (indicating) like that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And like try to hide it from me and stuff, and it was -- yeah, it was a very disturbing situation, but I mean, I did everything in my power to help and I think -- I think I did help in a significant way because to my knowledge, from what I have heard from others, who said she is still sober. Doing well. But I mean, as far as our relationship goes, like I am just not touching that with a 10 foot pole.
DET. ALLAN: It's not healthy for anyone.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: That's fair.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So like when the protection order expires -- like I'm just -- I'm only assuming she isn't like through through with me because I haven't had like divorce papers sent to me.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But like that doesn't necessarily mean she wants to be with me either. I mean, she could have, you know, her own reasons.
DET. ALLAN: So you mention this protection order.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: What's kind of the story there?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So basically like when she went to a care centre, which is like the women's Union Gospel Mission --
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Is that on St. Matthews or something? Doesn't matter. It's here nor there.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm just trying to remember. Archibald.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's where the care centre is.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: In St. Boniface.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Sorry, what's the question?
DET. ALLAN: So the production order -- or protection order. She goes to --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right, right. Okay. So basically like we had kind of like an arrangement. Like I had talked to [wife's name withheld] and I had talked to the director of care centre. [wife's name withheld] had told me that she had concerns on the street. She was like worried that people would like legitimately hurt her. Like in detox or whatever, she told me she didn't feel safe going there. So I had talked with -- what's her name? Lori Ann, I think, the director of care centre, about having [wife's name withheld] go directly in. So we had agreed to that. And then what ended up happening is that -- well, from what [wife's name withheld] had explained to me is that Lori Ann told her that she had to go to detox anyway, but she already brought her stuff. Like her stuff was already brought over to care centre. So she told me that Lori Ann lied to her. That she forced her to go to detox. And when she went into detox, I could tell that she relapsed. Because before that like she was telling me that she had some on her that she didn't use, and I'm like oh no, like this doesn't sound like a good situation. I could always tell when she used because like it's a complete change, and like her behaviour, personality and whatever, it's just like it's the crazy train.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And so she had called me in tears like right after I was served the protection order saying that she was pressured by Lori Ann. And there was another staff there with it that was not part of care centre. That was part of the fitness protection program that she was taking. I can't remember the name of the staff. But she's saying that they were standing over her shoulder, whatever. And like that she was pressured into signing it. So that was an incredibly difficult situation for me because it felt like she signed it under duress, and yeah. Like if you have anymore questions I guess I could clarify.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, it makes sense. Like there's -- we've dealt with these things obviously as police officers and we kind of see how sometimes there's people who want protection orders and sometimes there's people who are kind of coerced into getting them. Like through family or outside forces. That's fine. Makes -- right. I understand the situation.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Do you guys have any kids together?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: You have -- obviously the adopted. You have -- like there's an adopted child in play here?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, but not with [wife's name withheld].
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, 'cause I've had two different kids.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Two different mothers that aren't [wife's name withheld].
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And how old are those kids?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So my son, he would be 15 this October and my daughter would be 13 this -- sorry, she'd be 12 this May.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sorry, I just had to --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, no. What are their names?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My son's name is Tobias.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And my daughter's name is Apartey (ph). I didn't name my daughter. It's like an East Indian name. I don't know.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But it's her name.
DET. ALLAN: Have you kept in touch with them? Like a relationship with both of them?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I last saw my daughter when she was a little baby. I remember holding her up to the sun like this (indicating). Saw a beautiful little smile and that's the last time -- last time I saw her. But I had some contact with her. Facebook. I guess, yeah, part of why I started to relapse -- like there was a period of time where [wife's name withheld] told me that she was sexually assaulted. That police didn't do anything about the situation. I didn't trust her. And my daughter told me that she was sexually assaulted. The assault happened within like two -- two months. So that was very, very difficult. And then...
DET. ALLAN: How old would she have been, your daughter?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, maybe like 10 or something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So this is in the last couple of years?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I last talked to her like a year or two ago. Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Oh, on the computer?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, and that was kind of the last time I had any communication with her. I was kind of hoping that she would read my messages or message me back, but I mean it's an entirely selfish thing. You know, she doesn't have talk to me. You know, I can understand why she wouldn't want to be in my life.
DET. ALLAN: That's kind of heart -- that's kind of heartbreaking to hear though. Like I've got -- I've got two daughters.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. You have no idea and like it's... Like and my son, the mother's name is Celina Recksiedler (ph). So I was 20 years old I think when my son was born. She lied about using birth control. She said that she was using it. Apparently she's not attracted to men. That my son grew up with two mothers. She got legally married to another woman. And I lost my rights (inaudible) because her family kind of like pushed me out. They're very controlling and it got to a point where they said like -- yeah, like sit down and shut the fuck up is what I was being told and I was being told to pay more than what I was legally supposed to. I was actually paying child support and doing everything I was legally supposed to. I said I just wanted to go for a walk. So I just -- I felt like it was beyond reasonable just for me to go for a walk because I needed to clear my head, and they said, "If you go, don't come back." And so I never came back.
DET. ALLAN: It's heartbreaking. 20 years old.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: How old would you have been when you last saw Tobias?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: When I was 20 years old.
DET. ALLAN: So it was like very shortly after he was born. Like in that window.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I'm sure if you heard Serj Tankian, but there's -- his solo album came out in October I think of 2009.
DET. ALLAN: Which artist?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Serj Tankian. He was like the --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, yeah. The leader singer for System of a Down.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That's Scars on Broadway?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, that's Daron Malakian who made Scars on Broadway. He made Elect the Dead, which was his solo album.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Serj Tankian. So that came out the month my son was born. I remember I had like headphones or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Gave that to him to listen to. Maybe he would have some memory or would, you know --
DET. ALLAN: That's tough at 20 years old to have to digest that. So she -- obviously you have some trust issues with your own parents that you kind of alluded to.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I mean, it's -- that's an issue all on its own, but I mean like it was -- like I don't really blame her too because like -- like I think I might have mentioned before. Like I look at a person's pain before I look at their behaviour. And like in her case like it just seems to be like Munchausen by proxy. Like I know she's probably not diagnosed with it, but just her behaviour. Like she would, for example, like pretend to always have illnesses or something wrong with her so that she would always get attention. And like she would -- you know for instance, like she would like -- she was like a big stocky woman and like she used to like beat me pretty bad until like I got big enough that I started to like fight back basically, which is like -- that's not good like you know in any kind of situation. It was fucked. But yeah, it was a situation where like for example, like she would -- she would like hit me or whatever, and then she would like get on the phone and then call Holy Ghost Church. Like she was a Catholic school teacher. Oh wow, like this is reminding me of something else. Sorry, I'll just kind of like divert a little bit to what it reminded me of. There was a staff member at Siloam Mission. She recognized my last name. She's like, "Oh, do you know Mrs. Skibicki." And she's like -- I was like, "Yeah, that's my mom." And she's like, "Yeah, that was my tormentor." So my mom like abused a lot of kids, yeah. And I thought I was like the only one. And like I had some idea. Like she said she put soap in their mouth and all this other stuff that probably -- you know, like maybe it would have flew in like the 1950s or something.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But like I knew it was probably highly inappropriate, illegal or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: What kind of abuse would your mom kind of subject you to?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So --
DET. ALLAN: And I'm not trying to say that you're -- you know, you paint yourself as a victim.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I'm just -- I'm also a logical person.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I'm trying to understand.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I'll give you an example. Like she would like make faces at me when no one else is looking and then like play it off like I'm crazy because I would tell people about it.
DET. ALLAN: Gaslight you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. See why my eyebrows went up like this because I'm horribly, horribly affected by the gaslighting. Like I didn't realize that's what it was until I was like maybe 25 something. Like 25, 26. It's like kind of the beginning of like my addictions recovery. When I started to kind of --
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And like I remember like I was sitting at -- was it Vincenzo's Paradise Eats. We would always get pizza from there. But when we're at a restaurant there on my birthday, like I remember I got really upset and like I called it what it was, gaslighting. Like I'm not, you know -- but it's just like -- you know, like she was so easily able to trigger me because she just knew how to --
DET. ALLAN: Your mom?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- upset me.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But it was not so much my mom. Like she was like -- she was vicious towards me. She made me her like emotional nemesis. That she would like take everything out on me basically.
DET. ALLAN: What do you mean by that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, like she would -- like she had a very shrill kind of like scary kind of voice that like even her sister when she came over one year, it's like she just shivered. She's like, "Oh, like your voice is just -- when you shriek it's just -- just awful." And yeah. Like it just kind of like makes me uncomfortable even thinking about it because she is a scary, scary woman. Like I'm a grown man now and I still like have these feelings of fear when I think about it.
DET. ALLAN: Well, at the end of the day, I'm no -- like I'm no psychologist obviously. I got C's in high school. But clearly listening to you talk, there's a relationship between like some of the addiction issues you have and some of the treatment that you suffered when you were a kid.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And I don't think that's unique to you. I think that there's lots of people who unfortunately are subjected to those things.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That's probably the reason why we have a lot of people who have issues, right. It's just what it is, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: It's tough though, right. Like especially when you have now your own kids and you're trying to -- you're trying to do the right thing and like right away you don't even get a chance.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I remember she tried to smother me with a pillow before. I'm not sure how serious she was, but these are all things that like kind of traumatized me as a kid, right. And it's just the more I sit here and think about it more of these things are coming to --
DET. ALLAN: Like how old would you have been when something like that happened?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I will just say I was old enough that I -- or young enough that I wouldn't have been able to protect myself against her. So probably under 12.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And then you mentioned when you're -- like Tobias' mom --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: -- you kind of got to a point where you're able to kind of stick up for yourself; is that correct? Am I understanding it? So you're basically -- that she was like physically abusive towards you until you were able to kind of -- you got big enough to kind of like defend yourself and fight back.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I'm not sure how that relates to like Tobias' --
DET. ALLAN: I'm just trying to understand if that's the right relationship. You mentioned that you were with like a stockier woman.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, I think I was talking -- like talking about my mom being a stockier woman.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Sorry, I misunderstood that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. That's why I was confused.
DET. ALLAN: So as, you know, a 10, 12 year old kid she would -- like she would stuff -- like she would put like a pillow on your head?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Often would that -- something like that happen? And like what else too? Like what went by?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I remember that happened once, but I mean -- yeah, there's just lots of, you know, counts of like physical abuse. Like I don't think she counted it as sexual abuse, but I remember one time she had a stick and she jabbed it like right in my groin very hard. I don't know. I interpreted it as sexual abuse, but I mean like not the same thing as what my cousin did to me. I haven't confronted him about it. I don't know how something like that would even transpire, but I'm not even sure if I'm interested in dealing with it at this point. It's just it's so disgusting and how it's, you know, affected my life and everything. I just --
DET. ALLAN: How old would you have been when your cousin violated your space?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I was too young to understand what was happening so I had to be like under five or something.
DET. ALLAN: A male or female cousin?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: A male, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: It's tough. It's just horrible. Like with the world there's just so many things going on right now. And for me, the way my brain works, I kind of -- I'm getting lost in kind of like the -- with the macro issues. Like a lot of big things that really I have no bearing on. And then you -- you know, you hear things like this and it's just like fuck. Like what's wrong with the world, right. That's tough.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Especially a child, right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I think in a weird way like I'm grateful to have a dissociative disorder because my brain is able to just kind of like shut out certain things.
DET. ALLAN: Compartmentalize it and just move on.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Good way to describe it.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. I'm guilty of that too. But what do you do, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Like you know, you said something earlier about like you know, not wanting to play like the victim card.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: And from what you're saying it seems reasonable that you could. Like you could easily --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah, 'cause I could -- you know, I could go on all day, every day about it. It's (inaudible). You know that's how I live my life. You know, that's why I can do vertical push-ups because I'm not a victim. Just a person. You know, I'm not different than anyone else.
DET. ALLAN: I just finished reading a book by a guy named David Goggins. He's like a Navy Seal and he basically talks about just what you're saying. Like everyone has internal pain and at some point in time you've just got to accept it and use it as fuel to get over it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Have you heard the saying "suffer in silence." Like it's not a Prussian virtue, but it's like a saying.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Like I've really spent a lot of time now like looking into like various -- like European traditions and stuff like that 'cause it just seems so -- how do I explain it? Almost like it's like a lost art or something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Like stoicism type thing? Like that kind of --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Stoicism, it is a value in Prussian culture. As far as I'm aware, yeah, like it did have a value for stoicism. I did study that a little bit.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's important to me. Because you know like I am so used to people like manipulating, you know, me just because I tend to be emotional. So like I tend not to give people that advantage over me. I think stoicism is something that protects that for sure.
DET. ALLAN: Protects you. Sure, yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My emotional wellbeing, I guess you could say.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. That's kind of -- yeah. 'Cause you're logical, but then also you're saying your emotional which, you know, speaks to kind of like the duality, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Somewhere in between is wisdom because one or the other just by itself couldn't consider that wisdom. Not unless you have both.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm. How do you -- like when you're in a situation now and you see -- you know, you mentioned a situation where one of your other friends -- I forget the name. Was it perhaps Tyler? Something like that. You talked about one of your friends that you had to remove from your place because he was being disrespectful.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Tyler is an acquaintance. I was talking about Gab.
DET. ALLAN: Sorry. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out your, you know... So when you're in a situation now where you see someone who's, you know, essentially trying to take advantage of you, as you've described, like how do you deal with that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I was very patient. Like I was saying, like I give people like plenty of opportunities to kind of like understand without like you know --
DET. ALLAN: Basically understand your boundaries; is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's part of it, but more kind of like the -- I guess the morale value of their behaviour. Like I like to kind of give them the opportunity to see what they did as being wrong. Because like if a person doesn't have any self-inventory, like I don't want to be their friend. 'Cause it's like -- you know, like he doesn't have to do anything to be my friend. Like it's not like you know, a matter of like qualifications or anything. It's just, you know --
DET. ALLAN: Just being --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it's just a -- you know, I can't be friends with someone who has drugs around or has people over that use drugs. He was very respectful of that. Like I know he, you know, was a drug user from time to time. The same drug. But he never ever brought it around me. I never used with him. But for him it just -- it became a situation where he was starting to be affected psychologically. I know he had been a pysch ward a couple of times. And from what I was hearing from a lot of his friends, just over Facebook or whatever, that he was just kind of going off the deep end and he's been disrespecting a lot of people. Like I was basically his last friend.
DET. ALLAN: Not a healthy person to have around.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Half the time he was not.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. I'm just curious about something. Like I have like young kids. The situation with your cousin, you're roughly about five years old when you think it might have happened.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: When does that kind of trigger in your mind as to when you kind of identified that it was like wrong? Or like when did it -- when did it set in?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I can't say it's just like one particular event. It's just something that has constantly -- constantly and continually affected me. Yeah, it's just like it's something that like you know, when I'm able to kind of like think about, you know -- it's very difficult to describe it in a proper way. But I'll just say for the context, like in terms of like biological sexuality, and I'm talking about, you know, maybe kind of like spiritual or religious implications, that once I became more aware of that. Like how, you know, people are supposed to function sexually. It was a source of stress, you know, from that period of time.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Once the roles were essentially established then you were having this haunting or this uncomfortable reminder. I'm not sure if you -- like I'm sure it was haunting you to some extent.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, those are fair words to use.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Again, I'm in no position at all to, you know, provide any advice or any direction.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Have you tried to, you know, talk with someone about it or to unpack those kind of demons.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And did it help you move forward? Like kind of help you kind of establish some mechanisms to just cope with that pain?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Absolutely. It was not something that I was able to accomplish through like the traditional kind of like counsellors or whatever. When I went to Union Gospel Mission --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- one of the chaplains there, I think he did the most out of any of them because his level of knowledge and just the fact that like we went like name by name for like all of these different people that I've, you know, hurt in my life. People that have hurt me. That forgiving them was something that was very important. And sometimes I have to go through this forgiveness on not just a daily basis, but like moment to moment. 'Cause like I could -- I could genuinely feel like I forgive him, but then like you know, the emotions will come back and I don't feel like you know, this person deserves mercy. But I believe that, you know, it's a cycle that needs to stop essentially because it's -- you know, it's -- like my mother, for example. Like my adopted mom, like she -- like her dad beat the fuck out of her because he was a prisoner of war in World War II. Like he was in the Polish army.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And he had to like dig up like worms and spiders and moss and whatever he could under the ground for food. And he came out from that war looking like a skeleton. He was like a big dude before.
DET. ALLAN: You can see how your genetically -- like you're a big guy.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: We're not related. Like this is my adopted grandfather, but --
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Well, I feel like an idiot there, but you are a broad shoulder kind of guy.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, he would have been like -- would have been a lot bigger than I was. I think he was like 6'4" or 6'5" or something like that.
DET. ALLAN: That's a big man at that time.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Like when my grandpa fought in the Second War, his uniform wouldn't even fit me when I was probably like 12. Just that's a big man anyways.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So your mom was probably raised by hand?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: By hand (indicating).
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Just like my dad was too, right. It's just -- it is what it is, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So that's why I feel my mom was so messed up.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's why I feel I'm affected so much. It's just generational.
DET. ALLAN: It is inter-generational. It is. It's just that we've come to understand these things, right. There's reasons why --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: -- we shy away from, you know, striking kids now.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Right. 'Cause there's so -- such a sensitive thing. Have you ever confronted your cousin about this or any --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Have you considered it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: And what prevents you from it? Just to give you some closure or some, you know. Sorry, you're talking. Let me ask a better question.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I guess it's just -- I guess it's just how the abuse affects me. I can't say it's one thing or the other. That it's a manifestation from the abuse. I can't say it's confusion. I can't say it's anything. It's just like I can't say it's fear. Maybe it's like a little bit of everything, but I know that's what it's from. Like it's just something I haven't really fully dealt with even though I've forgiven him. Yeah, just like what do you do with something like that? Like you forgive them in your heart, but the feelings keep coming back. You know --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- it's messed up.
DET. ALLAN: Like so for me, I compartmentalize things. That's just kind of -- like it's my coping mechanism. And I find it works well until it doesn't work at all. And then when it doesn't work at all it's just like fuck. Like everything just comes apart, right. So it's difficult to try to find that. I understand, you know, how it's successful in moments, but then in the moments when it isn't successful it's just like well, now you're kind of almost lost, right, and how do you...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. I don't know.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: You know with life -- it's interesting -- I'll say, Jeremy, it's interesting to hear about a lot of your relationships. For the last probably half an hour I got to sit back and kind of listen to that. I'll say one thing I'm curious about is, you describe yourself as someone who sees the suffering and pain that people are going through before you kind of react to their actions. Is that kind of fair to say? Like you're -- before you judge them for their actions you are someone who looks into their pain and the things that they have gone through in their life.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I would say that is more of a newer kind of quality, and that was something that I was able to kind of develop through, I guess, progress that I made in recovery through Union Gospel Mission when I went there.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So interesting again. Like you describe it as a quality. That's something you've been able to develop.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I almost look at -- when I'm listening to you speak, I look at it as you are -- you put yourself in a position where you kind of, for lack of a better word here, just say you really allow them to take full advantage of you and dump their shit on you all the time.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And why is that a quality?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Because suffering, bleeding for someone specifically, is considered the most righteous thing you can do.
DET. ALLAN: Like empathy essentially?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Or more than that. Like it is literally like shedding blood for that person. So it's a selfless thing.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: A 100 percent. When I'm listening to you, I feel like you are -- you're putting yourself in relationships with people and essentially bearing their entire load for them until you can't anymore. At least that's what it sounds like. And maybe -- and I don't know if that is what happened with your wife or others as well, but it...
DET. DANYLYSHYN: -- a little more healthy but... So I just wanted to ask you about that. Like you look at it as a quality, but essentially it's almost something that's dissolving you it seems like as a person.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's all true for sure. Can't deny any of that. Yeah, it's -- it's been difficult because like I mean I've had the same kind of general views since I was like oh, 15, 16. So I approach relationships the same way, but what I've learned is that like there is a point where I can't help a person. Where like you know, my suffering just becomes absolutely meaningless 'cause it's not doing anything for them.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: You have no more to give.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I've gotten -- yes and no. It really depends on my emotional connection to that person. Like for example, like [wife's name withheld], I know I loved her so I put up with like a lot of shit.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But I've got used to changing women like I'm changing tires on a car, because I can't allow it to get to that point where it's going to be affecting me so much where it's just going to be bringing me down and if they're not getting any benefit themselves. Like for example, like you know, this is why I forgave [wife's name withheld] when she cheated on me like twice at the beginning. And it wasn't simply because I just wanted to be with her. Like she genuinely appeared to me to be remorseful.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And yeah, that's why I trusted her for so long. And then it was, you know, kind of the back and forth between like her trusting my judgment and what she was hearing from like Union Gospel Mission and whatever. So because it was so early on in our relationship and because we weren't actually living together and we didn't have that -- you know that co- operation, not just trust --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- that it just ended up kind of like falling apart, despite me making improvements. Like personally to like how I, you know, will approach situations.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sure.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That right now like I'm way more passive, I guess you could say. If a situation happens the way it does, you know, and it's not healthy for me or her, that's when I'll just kind of like take a step back and --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So how long ago -- or how long have you been separated?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like three years maybe.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: How many healthy relationships with, I guess, females have you been in? And specifically I'm asking 'cause we're talking about marriage to --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Indicating zero with hand).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Zero healthy relationships.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Zero healthy relationships.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So what's going on? Like it's --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Good question.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah. I guess, hey. It's just, you know --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I know what's going on. I can blame myself first and foremost in every situation because I mean it's easy to pick apart what other people do. And I think I was mentioning, you know, the importance of self-inventory. Like sure, I could say, you know, like if I was to break situations down, that like they share a lot of the blame, but I share my own responsibility as well. For one, I mean me being a minimalist, not having a great value for anything material. Like I've never had more than that -- I'm trying to think the exact number. Well, I know it wouldn't be over $5,000. I never had more than $5,000.00 at once ever just because my belief was that in order for me to experience what I believe to be like joy through, you know, something specific, you know like marriage, that I wouldn't know if it was love unless I didn't have things that could just be used for -- like almost every guy, you know, like it's all about the money and what they have. And like let's just say like I was a millionaire. Like you know, some chick could say she loves me. How do I know she loves me if I have all that money? That was -- believe it or not, like that was probably the biggest factor involved because I value love more than money and -- sorry. Love more than life and life more than money. And most people in this world it's backwards.
DET. ALLAN: So love more than life.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: And life more than money.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Which is the opposite of Western society basically.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Which is money first and then life and then love.
DET. ALLAN: How do you think that you came to have that foundation or that approach?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, that was through -- that was through prayer. Because it was something that I prayed for and that it was part of my agreement (indicating in quotes), I guess you could say with God. With how I was supposed to approach the situation. But my idea of how I was supposed to approach the situation has kind of like changed. Evolved over the years and like more I've become aware of certain theologies, you know. Or if I was aware of something that I was doing that was wrong or wrong interpretation, I would stop doing that, for example. But I mean, each time was a learning experience, but I believe it was not something that was meant to happen. And I still kind of struggle with my marriage and (inaudible). 'Cause we weren't married in a church. It was with a Commissioner. She lied about being sober for like two- thirds of our marriage. She apparently was high when we got married. I didn't know. So I don't know. Like if I was to ever be with her it would be because we got a proper marriage like in a church so I can be assured of the economical (ph) validity. Otherwise, right now it's just kind of like in limbo. I'm not sure what to make of it. This is an upsetting situation, but I don't know if she's truly my wife or not so it's just confusing for me.
DET. ALLAN: What I'm hearing though is that you're in love with her still and that she may be the person that you want to be with if the relationship wasn't so tumultuous?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The best way I can describe this -- I have to use something that is kind of more of theological explanation because there's three different types of love that are described in the Bible. I can't remember the exact Greek -- yeah, it's Agape which comes from God. Philo which is the most we are capable of and then Eros which is like a selfish kind of love. So right now it's -- oh geez. It's strained, but I still believe it's Philo. Meaning like the most love I'm capable of which is like -- it's very, very weak compared to Agape love. Like otherwise I would just be abounding in joy and like oh, I love this person so much like. But that's not how I feel. Like it's just a -- like it's kind of sad more than anything, but...
DET. ALLAN: And that's kind of what I'm hearing. Like I'm hearing you say that, you know, love is your priority, but you haven't had love. You don't have love.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I did. I felt that we did and there was a point where I just -- I gave up and I think that --
DET. ALLAN: Sorry, to interrupt, but like do you -- do you have frustration with yourself for giving up there?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Absolutely. Because it actually goes against my beliefs as a Christian. That's why I feel responsible even though like in this situation, back then like I had blamed her. Like I thought that she was not telling the truth when she said she was sexually assaulted. And I guess that was my fault for not believing her. I know that sounds stupid, you know, like to any bystander. To any bystander, especially, you know, from someone that cheated on me twice before. I'm not supposed to blame her unless there's material evidence, especially because she is a Christian. It's not -- not something for me to decide based on my emotions or whatever, what actually happens. And I think that that was my fault.
DET. ALLAN: So when you say that -- sorry, when you say that you're not supposed to blame her without like material evidence --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: -- did you blame her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It was -- I believe that I was --
DET. ALLAN: Did you essentially accuse her of cheating?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And did that cause the relationship to become tumultuous or to become more toxic?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think it was more just my perception that caused it to become more toxic. 'Cause I just -- yeah, I just -- I stopped caring. And then -- like I mean, I go back and forth with what I feel. You know, there's still feelings there, but it's... Yeah, it was just -- yeah, it was kind of like a spiritual death for me, man. Yeah. And I'm still kind of recovering from that. Like I've been probably like oh man, 10, 12 different women since I've last been with [wife's name withheld]. You know for like -- you know, obviously you guys have been paying close attention, you know, like how much I value my faith. You know, if you could think about, you know, what I would feel given the situation where like I now feel I have reason to believe her even though the circumstances and the optics are basically fucked. Evidence before it doesn't have to be believable, it just has to make sense. Well, it sounded extremely unbelievable, but her story still made sense which is why I blame myself for the situation. I could be a total sucker, but...
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So I have a question for you. And certainly you are -- you seem like a -- obviously you value your Christian beliefs. But you mentioned that as a Christian without material evidence I wasn't supposed to put blame on her.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: As a Christian, what were you supposed to do with material evidence?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, with material evidence then -- I mean, it's -- it's not like we can't judge other people. Like you know it says judge not unless ye be judged. But like I mean, like we're supposed to judge rightly. Doesn't mean that we're not supposed to judge.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: But what would you have done?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Like you're not looking for a way out. So how would that have changed the path had you had it?
(Det. Allan exits interview room at 02:32:42 a.m.)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: If that was the case, it would have depended on if she would have apologized for it or not.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Forgiveness is part of it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I would have been open to forgiveness, but it's -- you know, like again, like it comes down to like -- again, like how much suffering I'm going to go through. Like how, you know -- how much she values her mistakes, I guess you could say. So I mean, it's --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: But you still would have accused her of cheating. You would have accused her of cheating had you had that material evidence. Would you not have ended up in the same position?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: If it was like so conclusive with the material evidence that I know for sure it happened, that's different then you know, her claiming it didn't happen and me simply believing her. Did I clarify that well enough?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Well, yeah. I guess so. Yeah, I just -- you're beating yourself up because -- I mean, she did cheat on you. You found that out how?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, she told me. This is what she told me. Like it was like almost two years ago or something like that.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So you were right all along, but you had to go through all that suffering in the meantime questioning yourself before separation?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm not sure. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, like second guessing and thinking about it. But from what she explains, like it seemed like unlikely situation, but it's possible.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She says that this happened in a vehicle that had like tinted windows and reinforced doors, and it was like at the -- the gas station that was outside of care centre. And like she said that she got into this vehicle with someone that she sort of knew or recognized. And she said that she was sexually assaulted in that vehicle and threatened her. And he said that if she didn't co-operate, that he was going to like take her away.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Well, that's a lot different than cheating on you. (Det. Allan re-enters interview room at 02:35:07 a.m.)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. But I didn't believe her story, and that's why I assumed that and that's kind of like the decision I regret because it was just based on circumstantial evidence rather than material evidence.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Have you ever been accused of cheating when you haven't, other than this relationship with your wife?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: How does that -- like how did that go over?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it sucks but usually it's a situation where like it's all going to be kind of like not developed or mature. Usually if it's a situation like that, the relationship, it doesn't last very long. It just falls apart.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible) you've kind of been in like to 10 to 12 relationships since your wife.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't know if I would call that -- like sexual relationships.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So like I wasn't like necessarily dating any of them.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So what is that -- I guess, what is your post marriage kind of relationships? What do they look like?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, just carnal, but at the same time like you know, I wanted to be with all of them, but like I mean the carnal aspect is kind of like how I coped with it. I mean it's something that like you know, anyone that is sexual they want -- you know, have some level of gratification from such things. But I mean...
DET. ALLAN: Like it's normal?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But to me it's very damaging at the same time too because, you know, every one of those cases I just wanted to be with them, but you know it's not what they wanted. And then it's like you know -- same kind of thing where like I'm hurting myself in that situation, but I don't feel like I have any other -- any other way to do it because if I'm just giving up completely that's -- that is -- that's a spiritual death. That I've explained before. And yeah. Like 'cause there was a point where like I mean like I, you know, cared less about wanting a relationship, it was more about the carnal aspects.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But that's like when I'm backsliding and not, you know, paying attention to, you know, my prayers and stuff like that and devotions. Things that are important to me.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So have you been able to develop a relationship to, you know, a level as you had achieved with your wife? I guess not to that level, but have you been able to achieve a relationship more sustainable than just simply on a carnal level at some point?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: And what kind of -- just like for understanding, what period of time would it have been?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, that would have been, I guess, right after I left Bruce Oake and got the place where I'm at. I've been there for like six months or something like that. I can't recall specifically. But that information can be found wherever. Yeah, go ahead with --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. (Inaudible) roughly like 10 or 12 women. All kind of -- like is it just like -- like I guess how are you meeting these girls. Is it something like I know --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah. Like mainly at like the drop-ins, like Siloam and Disraeli.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And that's kind of like just a couple hook-ups and then just go different ways or just like one night things and so be it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Which one?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, both.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Depending on the person, I guess, in the relationship. That seems pretty reasonable.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Just trying to understand. Just to me it sounds -- and I don't want you to take this in the wrong way. It sounds sad, right. Like you want love, but you're not getting -- you're not even getting anywhere near it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Like it's -- and I'm not trying to like badger you or just -- it's a tough existence.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I've never obviously lived a day in your life. You mentioned like things that do fulfil you. Like obviously exercise and that's out of play right now.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: To some extent. Like I mean like --
DET. ALLAN: I guess, what do you do with your days?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right now -- oh, my goodness. I think before, you know, I'm able to go to the -- sorry, before I was able to go to the gym, which is like pretty much like the past two years. Like I really got back more into video gaming. I stopped playing video games for a long time because like I focused so much on (inaudible) that I just thought it was like a waste of time or whatever. So I was able to walk a lot more. But because I can't do a lot of walking, I don't really have much else I can do, so play like War Zone on my computer. Yeah, like I don't really watch TV or anything. Like I need to kind of be, you know, engaged in something.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So like, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Probably like most people. A little bit of like ADHD in there where you have to --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't know about that, but I know that it was a form of distraction 'cause I was in my CB -- DCT or whatever it's called. Like DBT, Dialectical Behavioural -- I can't remember exactly what the word is. Some kind of like treatment for borderline personality disorder. But apparently it's something that can be used therapeutically. Like you know, as long as I'm not like getting like super frustrated while I'm playing, because like that's not therapeutic if I'm like getting mad, for instance. But if it's something that I'm using to distract --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- you know, while still like you know, taking care of my health then it can be -- can be healthy. That's kind of what I was trying to get out of it, I guess.
DET. ALLAN: So you may have a diagnosis of borderline personality disorder?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I do have that.
DET. ALLAN: You do have some.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you want to tell me about -- or tell us about that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I guess when I talked to a psychologist -- psychologist or psychiatrist. Oh, I can't remember which it was, but that is when I was in Milner. The only time I was ever in jail. Seventy-four days or something like that. Oh, it was a bad situation. Talking about toxic relationships.
DET. ALLAN: What brought you to Milner?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I was accused of domestic assault cause bodily harm. I pled guilty because like she was blackmailing me. She had been threatening me for like four years saying that if she thought I cheated on her she would put me in jail and have people do me in in jail and then when I got out that she would put me back in because of the zero tolerance law. She knew all this. Like I was fucked. When I -- when I, you know, went into her apartment one day and then like she's like, "Yeah, you're like on camera coming in here." She would go into the bathroom. Sometimes start like hitting herself in the face. I didn't want to deal with that situation. So like when I tried to leave after about four years, that is when she called the police because she was like, "You can't cheat on me if you're in jail." And yeah, like I mean, I can go on about, you know, the things that she did, but that was the most cruel, evil person I met next to my mother. And yeah, she is a very dangerous person.
DET. ALLAN: And who's that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: [name withheld under a court order].
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I don't know if she's still in Selkirk. I don't know if they released her 'cause she attacked someone that I was seeing. Like I wasn't even in a relationship with this chick, but like she would find out every person that I was with because she was able to find out every single person on my private friends list because she was that invested in stalking. That, I guess, she was able to look at their profiles and to see who they're friends with or whatever. So there is kind of a way to kind of do that. She would make fake profiles. Like copy like over a 1,000 pictures to make a --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- a profile look legitimate. And like I would think I'm going to meet someone else and it would be her that showed up, for example. And then she stalked me for like three years after that. Ruined every attempt at a relationship I had because she would send messages to them on Facebook.
DET. ALLAN: Just sabotage you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So I guess while you're in Milner for your 74 days --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: -- at some point you receive a diagnosis or diagnoses, I think, like plural.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And it was -- I probably just had PTSD 'cause I was very frank and honest because I wanted to see what was wrong with me basically.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And he gave me a diagnosis of BPD with PTSD.
DET. ALLAN: What's your PTSD from?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I was describing earlier, I was stabbed in the chest. I was strangled before and fought for my life many times. Like I've been in maybe something like 50 physical altercations in my life. Not one of them I instigated.
DET. ALLAN: What kind of -- like domestic situations or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, no. Like when I was maybe like twenty -- no, I was younger than that. I was like 18. Something like that. I stayed at a friend's in the West -- I stayed at friends in the West End. And yeah, like I guess there was like a crew or whatever that was there, like something like a gang. And yeah, like this guy was like -- you know, like I guess like I didn't really see what was going on. Like I guess like I was, you know, kind of chilling with him there. Like be playing video games. And then it ended up like turning into something serious. Like where he would start like beating the shit out of me in the park --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- and whatever, and like be challenging me to fight. But you know, whenever I did, like he would not be showing mercy for example, you know -- he was just like really over the top with stuff like that.
DET. ALLAN: Where did you get stabbed?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right there (indicating). I still have the scar.
DET. ALLAN: Can I see it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Displays scar).
DET. ALLAN: Lucky you're alive.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Everyone that saw it, they're like, "Yeah, I saw someone else with like a smaller cut than that. Like a nick. They'd seem okay and then they'd just be dead after." I saw white. I think I saw my own chest plate. I was like walking around like in shock. I didn't even think I needed to go to the hospital when it happened.
DET. ALLAN: That's crazy.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm. Well, Jeremy, obviously -- you know, you've been -- you've been through a lot and obviously told us about a lot of relationships and things like that. It's interesting to get some insight into all that. So I'd like to get a little bit insight into your relationship with Rebecca. So what can you tell us about that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My lawyer said that I can blame him, that he said that I'm not supposed to say anything. Like I am helping you as much as I can. Right now it's a situation where it's not like a religious or spiritual problem which I was concerned before. Remember I was saying I wanted to have, you know, orthodox priest.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's something that will be resolved. Like right now this is like a human issue. That right now I have faith in God that he is going to handle this and that you're going to do your job and that my lawyer is going to do his job.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I can appreciate where you're saying that this is -- now you'd like to separate those things, whereas before you really wanted to bring that into the room here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: You talked about your Christianity and your faith and being frank and honest, and all those things.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And I'll be honest with you, how do we flip that off? How is that a switch that you can turn off now all of a sudden when we want to talk about Rebecca?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's just subject matter. Because it just -- the focus is now on Rebecca and before it wasn't.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Right, yeah. Yeah. So that's the extent of how far that you take that? Your personal beliefs and those things is essentially until it gets to a point where it's challenging and then you're going to, as you said before -- is this now a backslide of what we're getting into here when you add in those things?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. It's just what the lawyer was --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: No, I understand that. But like you're a Christian.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: You've made it very clear that it's an important part of your life.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And now -- I mean look, there was no secret we were going to end up just kind of talking about Rebecca at some point today.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So I'm just a little bit surprised to hear you now of all a sudden put your lawyer ahead of God.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's not -- it's like -- yeah, I hear what you're saying. Like I had a good frank discussion with him and it's like --
DET. ALLAN: And just so we can kind of hedge this off here too.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That's a private discussion.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So just even talking about him in here, I get kind of uncomfortable because it's so private that --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: -- it's something that if you -- you understand what was -- the direction. You said you're satisfied with the legal advice.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Right. So it's one of those things where, you know, it's just -- I don't want to know about it. I don't want to talk about a lawyer. I don't want you to think that I'm questioning the advice he's given to you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So I just kind of want to make that stated now and I don't want you to discuss further things about what he's told you in detail 'cause it's a private conversation. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I suppose that would kind of --
DET. ALLAN: I just want to make sure that we kind of get that out --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Was Rebecca somebody that you -- would she be one of the 10 or so females that you had a relationship with?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My lawyer instructed me to not say anything regarding a subject matter, you know, pertaining to this. Like I was, you know, just answering questions because I thought that was part of the process, or whatever. Not to do with Rebecca.
DET. ALLAN: Jeremy, you're a very interesting person, and I don't mean that in a bad way.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Like I don't. Like you're extremely intelligent just talking to you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Adam and I spent many hours in these rooms talking with people, and I don't think I've heard any philosophical theories before. You know, any theological ideas. You know, you are operating at a much higher level than people that we -- that we unfortunately have to deal with. The thing that is tough about being in the situation where you are is that it's a tough conversation, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And both Adam and I respect that the position you're in is very difficult. But part of what we're doing here today in this room, we're gaining an understanding for who you are, 'cause that matters. 'Cause everyone has a piece to this puzzle. Everyone has a role, right. The same way that our role is to obtain information and present it to the courts.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And the same way our role is -- isn't really our goal. Is we're truth seeking. Like we're looking for truthful information.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Wherever it comes from and we're going to put that forward, right. We are not God in this situation. We're just a person (inaudible). We're just digging for things.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So everyone holds a piece to this puzzle, and that includes yourself.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Right. The unfortunate thing is -- like this situation might not be your fault, but it is your problem, right. Like this isn't going away and we have an obligation to Rebecca, to her family and to her community to figure out what happened.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Right. And part of that is getting a story. And we know certain things that we'll probably get into as our time together moves forward.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: But we have a big goal too to make sure that people don't get caught up in this. In this justice machine if they shouldn't be there. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Like I'm mentioning David Milgaard. He passed away earlier this week, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I was actually going to bring him up.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's just that it comes down to, you know, situations where people are trying to be forthcoming and helpful.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I'm just trying to be and ends up getting in trouble like with statements. So it's not that I don't want to help. It's like I want to help in a way where it's not going to be, you know, affecting me.
DET. ALLAN: You have the self-preservation interest, which is fair, right. No one wants to get caught up in something they didn't do.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I want to be David Milgaard basically.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, okay. So if I may kind of just open -- or talk a little bit about what we do.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: Is that fair. So there's lots of people that work on these investigations. I'm not going to, you know, name them all out.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: But essentially we work in the Winnipeg Police Service Homicide Unit.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So we have a supervisor and then there's -- we have 10 teams of officers investigating. Adam and I are just one team.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So on a day earlier this week we learned of a situation where someone's lost their life. Officers were assigned and we go out and we start investigating. There's obviously our uniform guys -- guys and girls, the ones you see in the cruiser cars, they're out working. They're talking to people. We have our identification officers, similar to the two constables that came in here and took pictures of you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And we're all working, right. And there's things that we can discuss later on. Like the techniques that we have as police officers. Lo and behold there's (inaudible), right. And a lot of people bring a lot of expertise to the table. And you know, for yourself, you kind of have to ask yourself how am I here right now, right. We can get into that and we'll, you know -- part of what we'll do here is we'll show you some of the stuff so -- you have the right to see, you know, the evidence that brings you here today. We're not here to just -- you know, to essentially trick fuck you, right. Pardon my language. I do happen to swear a lot. I hope it doesn't offend you. But I say all that to say this. Each member of this investigation brings something to the table and they're putting things forward, right. We don't hold certain details, right. There's certain details, you know, that Rebecca would have if she was alive, right. There's certain details that other people, who may not be known to this investigation, may have, right. You know there's -- and again -- and the same is true for you in this instance where there's certain pieces that you hold. So the concern that you might get caught up in something that you didn't do or you know, that you might say something that might hurt you, I want you to understand that we're looking at painting a big picture, and things that are said are verified or non-verified. If that makes sense.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Like our ultimate goal in this room is just to understand what happened and to get the truth. That's it. We're absolutely truth seeking, okay. So if something is said, we work on it and we will verify it, right. So we know things about your life. We know things about Rebecca's life. And without getting into the details right now, 'cause I'd like to offer the floor to you as a grown man to, you know, essentially step up to the plate and tell us what happened so we can understand how Rebecca lost her life and what you know about that, right. So like I'm just going to say I understand that you have received some legal advice. That's kind of full stop. I'm asking you as a man to step forward and provide us some insight about what you knew about Rebecca. I'm not even asking about what happened to her. Just what -- just something so we can understand who she was as a person, right. 'Cause I'll tell you now, there's nothing you can do that is going to change my opinion as to the fact that you were in a relationship with her. There's nothing you can do. And as we go forward here, I will absolutely tell you why I think that, but I would like to have you, you know, step forward on your own without being pressured or without being persuaded to just do the right thing.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean, the right thing is to wait until my lawyer sees me at the Remand because that's the way it's going to happen. I've committed to that. You can certainly ask as many times as you want, and it's not a matter of wanting to not answer, it's just the time and the place.
DET. ALLAN: So what I'm hearing though is that that's like a self-preservation kind of angle. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't know if I would say that specifically. I think it's just because a lawyer knows a lot more than I do when it comes to, you know, these types of situations. And like I'm not going to get into what he told me.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But I just -- I trust his advice and my understanding is that I'm not doing the wrong thing by talking to my lawyer at the Remand. This --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. And again, like that's kind of that -- that's a relationship between you and your lawyer.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Right. Like given you advice. I'm here as a human being. Here talking to you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Right. I kind of -- I sense what you're getting at. I don't begrudge you or think poorly of you for making that choice. I do think that when I say like the right thing to do -- like who am I to say right and wrong, but it's my impression that the right thing to do is -- you know, is to provide some -- some understanding as to how someone lost their life tragically, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I hear what you're saying.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, I think that's the right thing to do. And that's just like as a human being. And I know I get very leery of talking about spiritual things.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: But I do believe that at some point in time that we all have to face, you know, the guy or the girl upstairs and we all have to answer the bell. I'll kind of leave it at that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, for sure.
DET. ALLAN: And there's -- as a human being I know that I make mistakes all the fucking time, right. Like I'm a human being. Like I grew up in the North End just like you. I've seen lots of people kind of make bad decisions and good decisions. I've been part of some of those bad decisions. I've been fortunate enough to just have a fucking -- you know, a horseshoe up my ass where I'm in the position I am today, you know, and I likely very well could not have been, right. I could have been someone like yourself, sitting in a chair. But with mistakes made, there's always a chance that -- to reduce the harm from that mistake, right. It doesn't matter if you're, you know, taking a chocolate bar from the store or you know, someone pushing a friend. It's not like a kid pushing their friend in a school yard, right. Their opportunity does exist to undo some of that harm. You can't take it away. What's done is done, right. We're all old enough in this room to understand that. But there's merit in trying to unfuck the situation a little bit, okay. Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, I mean, like Greg said it's one of those things where, you know, things start happening fast. And we work in a big unit. Information comes rolling in and comes rolling in. And as we kind of progress through things, you know, everyone's kind of taking their piece of the puzzle and putting it together. And you probably hear both of us kind of refer to that, but essentially we're here looking for the truth. We want to understand what happened, and the only way to do that is by either speaking with everybody. You know, whether it be witnesses from the area, certain investigative techniques that we use. (Inaudible) pieces into the puzzle too. And you know, getting as much as we can. And what we -- you know, all we really are, you know, is, yeah, we work in the Homicide Unit. We're investigators. Investigators in the Homicide Unit.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: We're really servants of the court. We gather evidence. We present evidence to be what we believe is the truth. And that's all we're here to do. And part of that comes from speaking with you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right. So like what use is it to the situation or justice if I was to per se say something that I thought was helpful and I was just being frank and honest, and I was put in jail because I was innocent and there's a killer on the loose.
DET. ALLAN: So what do you mean by something that's helpful? Just if we could talk in context. Just so we can understand so we're all talking about the same thing.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, --
DET. ALLAN: Hypothetical situation.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Helpful to you because you want to know about Rebecca.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So I guess like a question is like --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 'Cause you're asking me obviously stuff about her.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So how did you meet her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean, I have been instructed by my lawyer to not say --
DET. ALLAN: So here's the thing. I'm going to just kind of separate those two. Sorry, Adam, step on your toes. So you're saying I don't want to say anything because I'm concerned about being wrongfully convicted for something I didn't do, okay. So just hear me out. And I'm asking you a question. How did you meet her. There's no connection in time. I'm not suggesting like how did you meet her that day. I'm not asking that. I'm just asking -- you can frame the time. How did you meet her? How did you meet -- here's a better question. How did you meet her as it does not relate to her passing or her expiry or death?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: As much as I want to answer, I think that just kind of comes under the category of being the same topic as it pertains to her.
DET. ALLAN: I know. Okay, fair. I don't agree with -- I don't necessarily agree with your logic though, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Can you see how my position?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: For sure. It's frustrating.
DET. ALLAN: Well, it's not frustrating. It's your life. Like at the end of the day, it's your life.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Like you will have to answer to however the events of this day turn out.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I will.
DET. ALLAN: I believe you will too. But this is the forum right now where we kind of get an understanding as to how -- how you fit into this puzzle, if at all, right. And if you weren't there and you want to provide us with some alibi information or something that removes you from the murder of Rebecca Contois, we're here to listen, man. Like Adam said explicitly, we are collectors of information. We put it forward to the court.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So if there's something about someone else doing something -- if it's a situation where you think that you're going to be, you know, wrongfully charged with the situation and there's exonerating information, we're absolutely willing to listen and we're absolutely willing to follow it up.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: The last thing --
DET. ALLAN: Absolutely.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: -- we want -- the absolute last thing is to put something on someone that didn't do it. Had nothing to do with it. Isn't the right person. We do not want that in here. And we will go to great lengths to ensure that that doesn't happen, and I can promise you that. So you know, when we're talking about pieces of the puzzle, you're not here by a mistake or an accident or by just chance. You're here for a reason. Now, are we talking about, you know, past cases where there's been a wrongful conviction. It's happened. We don't want that to happen at all, right. And we do, we go to great lengths to ensure that doesn't happen.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So when we're talking about you offering pieces of the puzzle that may -- you're talking about a killer being on the loose still. We do not want that. In fact, we'd like to add the pieces to the puzzle to say, "Thank you, Jeremy. There's somebody more important out there." It's extremely important. And at this point, anyway, it would seem that you are the person to provide that. And as far as I know, at this exact moment, there's nobody else. So you can see from our standpoint how it is vitally important.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So if you want to look at it like this it's like the law is like a language I'm somewhat familiar with but I don't know how to speak fluently. So I need a translator 'cause it's not going to be useful to you guys as much as you intend on doing this correctly. As much as I believe you, it's not really a matter of, you know, my willingness to say anything that I know about her. It's just that I need the translator so to speak, so that I can be as helpful to you as I can be.
DET. ALLAN: How long have you known her for?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My lawyer --
DET. ALLAN: So how do you need a translator -- you're using words in this room --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: -- that I'm literally trying to archive and I can remember 'cause I want to Google them later and learn what the fuck that word means.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So I don't think there's any legal mumbo jumbo in there, okay. So Jeremy, I respect you. I respect your approach. I think I understand how you think a little bit to some -- like a very small extent. But at the end of the day if you're just trying to hide from something, I want you to know right off the hop -- and I'm sorry to cut you off. I want you to know right off the hop, the bullshit stops here, okay. 'Cause there's things that are outside of the control that you think you might have on the situation that are moving outside of your control, okay. Does that make sense?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: What you're saying makes sense, but I don't think --
DET. ALLAN: I'm telling you right now, there's things that are moving forward in the last period of time -- I'm not even going to get into that yet 'cause I'm not going to give you the courtesy of knowing certain things just yet because we're not at that level right now. We're still talking bullshit a little bit here. There's things that are moving very quickly as we sit in this room right now, okay. Just think about your day. Think about where you woke up. Think about where you went. Think about the last place you was -- the last place you were, sorry. Before you ended up wearing those bracelets on Henderson Avenue -- or Henderson Highway.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Just think about that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You're a smart guy. What do you think that we are doing right now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean, you guys are trying to --
DET. ALLAN: No, no, no. No, not us. What do you think that Winnipeg Police Service Homicide Unit is doing currently for -- the people that aren't in this room?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, --
DET. ALLAN: Do you ever watch TV shows?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I used to lots.
DET. ALLAN: You ever watching police shows? Any of the crime shows?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sometimes.
DET. ALLAN: Tell me about a show you like.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh.
DET. ALLAN: Give me a name or two or three?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like NYPD Blue or something. Do do do do dudda do.
DET. ALLAN: I never fucking watched. There's a guy, Sipowicz. (Inaudible). He had a bad tie and suspenders. Looked like a clown.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. What do we do? We talk to people. Adam talked about that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Modern craze is the CSI thing, right. You don't fucking see fingerprints through cameras and shit like that, right. There's some truth to all that 'cause that's what we do. I'm just going to lay it out to you again just so you can understand. To try to help cut through the philosophical circles we're kind of talking in, okay. In your own mind's eye, think about where you woke up this morning. Think about where you went. Think about what you did. Who you talked to. Think about that whole day.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And then how somehow you ended up in handcuffs on Henderson Highway. So what do you think we as police officers are doing right now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Honestly, like I thought I had an idea until you like you know, started bringing up the events of my day that made less and less sense to me. So I'm just going to say I don't know. Like I thought maybe I had some idea. Like I was just going to generalize and say that you're trying -- I mean, the police are trying to investigate Rebecca's murder. I don't know how much more specific I need to get, but like with the events of today, like it doesn't really make sense to me.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, okay. Maybe I'm talking like drug dealer to you, right. Perhaps we were watching you today.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, okay.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And we've seen places you've gone.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And we're going to follow up on those things.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: I guess the point of what I'm trying to get at here as we've gone on this long senseless tangent is that this isn't a statement case per se. Like you're very concerned about the words that you say, and that's your right. But I want you to know this is not a statement case. And what I mean by that is a lot of the wrongful convictions you probably heard about are statement cases. Where someone says -- there's a witness that says, you know, that guy did it, and then that guy comes in and he says something that doesn't line up with that person and then they get charged, and they call it the 1970s, right. That's not what's happening, okay. There's lots of things going on and we'll give you the grace to hear some of it. We're not going to, you know, spoon feed you evidence though, okay. But what we're trying to get though, some level of truth out of you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So we can understand Rebecca's life and we can try to understand how she ended up deceased.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So like I can vaguely understand what you're saying, but like again, it comes down to me not having a strong comprehension of what that means because like I don't know if --
DET. ALLAN: Ask me a question. Like Adam and I are both willing to answer questions.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean like you're saying this is not a statement case, but like what guarantee do I have that it doesn't become a statement case.
DET. ALLAN: Well, --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: That's a future question, right. What's the future holding. That's like asking Warren Buffett what's CNR going to be worth, you know, in 10 days. I don't know, right. There's --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: There's things to it. Obviously he's a shareholder there. He might have some say, but he doesn't really have all say. If that's the way you want your life to move forward, as just on hold then that's something -- that's a choice you have to make. One thing that I say to people in here is that a part of my job is to take your hope away, right. Because every person that comes in this room, that sits in that chair, they hold onto hope, and hope is a very powerful and very dangerous thing. It's an extremely sharp double edge sword. 'Cause when you're in a dark place and you don't know what to do, hope is extremely powerful, right. But when you're on the edge of a cliff and you're ready to jump off, hoping that you can fly, it's pretty fucking dangerous, right. It's not always the same thing. It's different in different situations. That make sense?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So probably what we'll do is we'll -- I'm sure we'll take a break here at some point.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: But at some point we're going to prepare some things. Going to show them to you and we're just going to help you understand how you're here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: But at the same time too, if it's a waste of our time, we'll just stop, right. Like I want to go home and do something else. I'd love to learn how to play video games. It's like something I wanted to do for a long time. One thing we are going to do though, that we haven't done yet, is we're going to talk to some of your -- some of your exes, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: We're going to try to get an understanding. That's not happening tonight.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: We're going to try to get an understanding of what kind of -- what kind of partner you are.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Right. 'Cause one of the best things or one of the best ways to predict the future is to understand the past, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: You know, we kind of -- you mentioned, you know, 1920s Germany.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Some of the financial burdens that they face with inflation and kind of the road we're going on now as we were sitting downstairs waiting for you to get into CPU.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So we'll do that. We'll talk to them. And what do you think they're going to say?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's probably all over the place.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I mean like it just depends on who you ask. I mean, like every relationship is going to have its own unique characteristics. But yeah, some of them are probably not going to have the best things to say about me. You know, like especially earlier on when I was not in recovery. Like before I started to, you know, kind of make sure and go on that path. So sure, like you know they're probably going to say that, you know, I had a drug problem and stuff like that. But I don't know specifically, you know, what they would say 'cause I mean it's -- you know, if I look back into specific relationships that I've had, it's so long ago that, you know, like even -- even my wife, that was like you know, most like kind of like fresh on my mind. Last real relationship. The last real relationship that I had. It's -- you know, even that's starting to kind of get faint in my memory so...
DET. ALLAN: What do you think your mom is going to say about you?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh. That's hard to say. I really don't know. 'Cause I know like you know, when I was a child or whatever or a teenager, you know, like she could give a better perspective on that, but we haven't had like a real relationship as adults so...
DET. ALLAN: Have you changed that much since you were --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Since I was like a child or teenager?
DET. ALLAN: Like an older teenager. How old were you when you moved out?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 15.
DET. ALLAN: 15.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Probably changed a little bit since 15, but --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Substantially.
DET. ALLAN: How so?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Back then I mean, I -- I guess I was -- what's the term? I'm trying to think if I can remember exactly how this was worded. It's a good way of describing it. A good antennae but poor receiver. Meaning like I was able to kind of pick up on all of the negative things that were happening, but how I interpreted it like it was just like you know -- I guess I would, you know, kind of like lash out at my parents. You know, I would do stuff like -- like I stole from home and stuff like that. I'd be dropping out of school. Yeah, just because like I didn't know how to handle these stresses. And now like today it's, you know, a lot of tools that I've learned that are very, very important. That it's like -- like I feel I'd be dead if I hadn't learned these things because like even small amounts of drugs, like it affects me so much physically, that like -- you know, like I was in the hospital not that long ago and I did very little, but they're saying that I need to get a Holter monitor to see like my heart is like -- you know, going be, you know, healthy or whatever. They weren't able to determine anything based on the blood tests or EKG.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Nothing they saw as, you know, a problem, but a Holter monitor is something that I feel I need to get. 'Cause yeah, like I -- yeah, like my body -- like I guess it really can't handle the drugs and addiction.
DET. ALLAN: Do you fear death?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes and no. That's a paradox.
DET. ALLAN: Expand on that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's very difficult to because sometimes -- like right now I don't feel death -- I mean fear death, but like at some times, you know, when I'm in a different frame of mind, I feel like I'm not right with God, then yeah, like I have the feel -- a feeling. But right now I feel very connected to God that it's not -- not a situation that is out of God's hands. It's certainly not in my hands. It's not in your hands anymore.
DET. ALLAN: What do you mean by that, it's not in your hands anymore?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Because --
DET. ALLAN: To me that means what's done is done and you can't change it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. I mean, like the difference between like physical and spiritual. Like it's -- you know, I wasn't making any connection to what you're doing or not doing here. It's just, you know, the difference between what is happening, you know, in terms of our choice in behaviour and what God is doing. And I feel that in this situation that God is in control. That I'm not in control and you're not in control. That is my perspective. If that makes any sense to you.
DET. ALLAN: Another question. Sorry, I'm going to screw the acronym up. The personality disorder.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: What is it again?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Borderline.
DET. ALLAN: Borderline, okay. So what does that entail?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My emotions are generally much deeper and more intense than other people. They say it's something that could be genetic, but also caused by early childhood abuse. Like I've read all sorts of things that people with BPD can be manipulative and this and that. But I mean it's just -- for me, like I don't get pleasure out of being cruel or manipulative to people. You know like --
DET. ALLAN: Just kind of how it is?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: What do you mean by that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I would say up until --
DET. ALLAN: Sorry. But you say that it's not intentional, is the way I understood it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's a paradox I believe because, you know, the intent to do what I did in the specific information -- I mean in specific --
DET. ALLAN: Situations.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- situations was there, but it's not that I wasn't, you know, compelled or had issues or pressures. So like yeah, like I knew what I was doing. You know, I had many toxic relationships. And again, like I'm not going to be, you know, focusing on them or what they did. Like I could -- you know, I could go on about each of them, but that's not, you know, what we're talking about.
DET. ALLAN: I respect you for not doing that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The only time I was ever physically violent in a relationship was with [name withheld under a court order]. And I will admit specifically I was -- I was at my wits ends because there was blackmailing, kettling. Basically I felt like I was in a situation that I couldn't escape. I pretty much lost it. But that was the only time I ever put my hands on a woman, and I was convicted of that.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm. And you served your time for it. It's all done.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. What was the -- what happened? Like what happened in terms of -- like how did you go off?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I had stopped taking medication.
DET. ALLAN: Just specifically to her. Like what did you do to her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh. I'm trying to remember. I remember I struck her a couple of times. I think I -- what was it? Yeah, I strangled her and I put a pillow over her face. It's all serious -- very serious stuff. Yeah. But I mean like I wouldn't be saying that, you know, like if I was just trying to like you know, make myself sound innocent. Like I'm trying to --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, I know. And I'll say right now, I really appreciate your frankness and just -- like just fucking owning it. It's a difficult situation. So I do appreciate you having the strength to talk about it, so thank you. I sincerely thank you. Like I know it sounds weird that I'm thanking you for talking about something now, but it takes -- not all people are able to own that, okay. How are you doing?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Stable. Like stress is there or whatever, but...
DET. ALLAN: What's the stress for you right now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, like wouldn't you be stressed if you're in my situation, being charged with murder?
DET. ALLAN: You're under arrest right now. You haven't been charged yet.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, I thought I was.
DET. ALLAN: Just under arrest right now for it. Like you're not free to leave, but yeah. So what -- but you know you've made -- you've alluded to, albeit through (inaudible) that -- a concern, like a wrongful conviction. Of like an innocence. And the last thing I want is my name over the Innocence Project. So did you kill Rebecca Contois?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My lawyer --
DET. ALLAN: I'm just asking, did you kill her, yes or no?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I mean if you want a direct answer all I can say is my lawyer instructed me to not say anything.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And it's specific to Rebecca so --
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- that's why I'm responding this way.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Take a break?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: We're going to step out. We're going to regroup. We're going to get some things ready to show you just to kind of help you understand why you're sitting here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: Do you want to use the washroom while we're here?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: Would you like something to drink or something to eat?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, both. A little bit more coffee, I guess. Let me finish this quickly and use the bathroom when I get a chance.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Food?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sorry?
DET. ALLAN: Food?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Pizza Pops, I guess.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. (Inaudible). We'll just get you --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Just come out this way.
(Det. Danylyshyn and accused exit interview room at 03:32:58 a.m.)
(Det. Allan exits interview room at 03:33:15 a.m.)
(Det. Danylyshyn and accused re-enter interview room at 03:34:00 a.m.)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. We'll get you some -- you said Pizza Pops. Do you need another Coke or just coffee, sorry?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just coffee is fine.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Coffee. Coffee, Pizza Pops.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Do you got a second blanket?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: We can't.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: That's just kind of by the rule, it's just one blanket so...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. All right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Hey, Jeremy.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes, sir.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I'm very sorry for -- we kind of forgot your coffee and Pizza Pops here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: They're here now.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I'll put your Pizza Pops on the chair here. Your fresh coffee is on the ground, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: We won't be too much longer and we'll come back in and chat with you, but my apologies for that. That's my fault.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: All right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): How are you doing, Jeremy.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes. DET. ALLAN (in hallway): We're just going to slide back in here, man.
(Detectives re-enter interview room at 05:17:55 a.m.)
DET. ALLAN: Before we get going, do you need the washroom or anything?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, I'm fine.
DET. ALLAN: You're fine, okay. If that changes, you let us know.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: See you have a coffee and some beverages there still. You had an opportunity to think?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, just sleeping, but yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So you didn't think about it all what we were talking about?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I can't say I didn't think at all. I just spent most of the time sleeping I think.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You had a good nights sleep though last night?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I didn't sleep at all.
DET. ALLAN: What's that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Last night, no, I didn't.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. You stay at your place there --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: -- on McKay by yourself or are you with anyone?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: By myself.
DET. ALLAN: By yourself. So no roommates fucking keeping you -- or shit like that like?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. That's good at least. So you said you've been there for like five months, or some shit like that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Let's say November you moved in?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think it was like early this year.
DET. ALLAN: This year?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I'm just trying to think. That might have been like January or February maybe. But again I can't -- it's difficult for me to kind of remember. Yeah, 'cause I --
DET. ALLAN: Why is that? I'm not following.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I just can't remember the specific dates. It's just difficult for me to remember --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- specifically.
DET. ALLAN: You were living at Alloway before; is that right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: And who were you living there with?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I was living there with James Milton at one point. He replaced Jason Kennedy. So I had two different roommates there. Two different periods of time.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. All good. Like the terms of which you left there. Like all on good terms?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, with the roommates?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not really. Like Jason wasn't, you know, paying rent after a certain period of time. Same thing with like James. Like I guess it was situation where like it easily could have been like preventative and dealt with.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just because -- I'm just trying to remember -- oh yeah, it was some kind of like frivolous complaint that could have been dealt with, but James felt that he didn't need to pay rent himself.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And like I was already late two times before that. I explained that to him.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And when -- between the both of us --
DET. ALLAN: Covering.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- being late three times --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- because like even though he kind of moved in later. Like I was on the lease originally. It became the situation where like you know, I could have brought it to a tribunal or whatever it is. Like for --
DET. ALLAN: RTB.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Yeah, for order of possession. So I decided not to fight that, and instead I was like okay, well, I mean this is a --
DET. ALLAN: Just cut and run.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, like -- and I had used twice before that so it was like I should probably go to treatment.
DET. ALLAN: That's not bad advice, right. Like if something's not working, change. Change, right. So --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: -- fair enough. When you were at Alloway were you working or anything?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I was on disability too.
DET. ALLAN: Disability. So when is the last time you were employed?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, in 2015 or something. It's like a while ago.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: A long time ago.
DET. ALLAN: And what were you doing?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That was -- I was working at Smith Personnel. Just like temp work.
DET. ALLAN: Is that where you're doing like the cold storage?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That was one of them. I'm not sure if that was Perfect Placement, but that was like a lot of years ago when I was --
DET. ALLAN: What do they do there? Is that like -- it's like food (inaudible)?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Versacold?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it was like frozen meat. I think it was like frozen pork or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: Is it like -- like it's just boxes type thing? Or is it like a butcher like packing --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It was like moving boxes like onto trailers.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Where it was stationed. I guess it was just like cold storage or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. So it would be like box moving kind of?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible). What else have you done for work? You mentioned just the labour stuff.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Worked at Telesolutions. That's like the first job.
DET. ALLAN: You kind of talked about that. Like some phone shit. Like --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: It sounds like you're drug dealing the way you described it. Like marketing, sales, rebranding. It's like -- I'm not -- it's a joke.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Maybe in poor taste given the context but... Okay. So I guess -- like what do your days look like? 'Cause I guess the reason -- where I'm going with this is is you're well spoken. Talking to you, I feel like I'm talking to Jordan Peterson.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Laughs). Go clean your room.
DET. ALLAN: Well, basically right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't know that much about him, but like I've heard him speak before so...
DET. ALLAN: You're well spoken. You use words that I don't know, and I'm not saying I know many words, but the words I know I do know are kind of good words. Trying to dumb it down. Where do you get -- like where is that from? Like do you read a lot? Like where have you inherited your vocabulary?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I would say most of it is just through interest. Like I mean --
DET. ALLAN: Interest is something that fuels, like you know, your pursuit of knowledge.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: So like where -- what's the mechanism though that you would expand your vocabulary to such heights?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The simplest way of putting it, monkey see, monkey do, right.
DET. ALLAN: Where are have you seen these smart monkeys? I've been at a zoo and they don't talk much.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean, I don't want to insult you guys.
DET. ALLAN: Please.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I mean, we're all technically monkeys though, right.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I mean, we all learn from each other.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. There's very things that actually new created.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So it's not like I studied under one person or like had some kind of like --
DET. ALLAN: Tutelage.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- teacher.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's just my kind of observation and learning over a long period of time. So it's not like --
DET. ALLAN: So I'll just kind -- maybe I'll redirect that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: So you've discussed, you know, being just like kind of a lower quantity meth user over a period of time and having --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Now, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: The people that I've been exposed to, maybe Adam's experience is different than mine, but the people I'm exposed to that are, you know, using meth and have like a chemical dependence of that kind, they don't tend to speak the way that you speak.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I would imagine, you know, if I was doing considerably more. Like you know, close to the beginning of my recovery before my recovery.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Active use. At that time I didn't know there was something I had to recover from and I had no idea how far gone I had gotten. And I recognized, you know, what behaviour and, you know, speech was normal and what --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- is out of place.
DET. ALLAN: So knowing -- like for me I've had, you know -- I had court last week, right, and Mr. Sneesby was one of the defence counsel, and the lawyers were using words and I'm just like I don't know what you're talking about, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: That's a short experience. Now you've got learn a lot of vocabulary. Not like a word or two. You have like an expanded vocabulary to like you know, the layperson so I'm just -- I'm just trying to understand.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, yeah. It's also that it's not like -- it doesn't have a type of strict foundation where like all of a sudden my vocabulary is going to be better than yours. My vocabulary, I estimate might be as good as yours. Like you might know words that I don't know and I might know words that you don't know.
DET. ALLAN: So you moved out of your house when you're 15 years old. You described a physically and somewhat sexually abusive mother. When you were 15, I imagine you probably went to a harder place than home in terms of -- it might have felt safer, but it was probably harder living, you know.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: Assumptions. Safe. Did you go to university?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Have you taken like English lit in recreational classes?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. I mean, I just --
DET. ALLAN: I'm asking for -- I'm just seeking an answer. And I guess I'm asking you kind of like in general a safe question.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. So no.
DET. ALLAN: And you're answering with like -- you're answering in proverbs.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I see what you're getting at, but no that would be the answer.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So do you know where you've -- like have you had any primary influences that, you know, influence your vocabulary?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I learn a lot of stuff off the internet, right. It's just like You Tube is like my -- I'm more of a You Tube guy than a Google guy, but like I learn a lot of shit from there. It's like I like building stuff. That's kind of like my forte. That's what I do for you know, literally to kill time. And I You Tube shit and that's like what I do. And I'd say for me, like listening to someone like Jordan Peterson talk I could see how his -- his, you know, expanded vocabulary has an influence on me.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Is something like that similar for you?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. That almost sounds kind of like you know, type of like confirmation by a set, like you know -- I'm not saying (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: But that's belief. That's belief based. I'm just talking simply about vocabulary.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I'm not talking in terms of like seeking, you know, desirable opinions.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right. Yeah, I can see how you might get that out of him, but like that's not really how I learn I think.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's just through observation, repetition.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So kind of that same question. (Inaudible) I'm just lifting my shirt here. What do you do with your days? Like you're on disability.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You work one out of six days if you can. It kind of sounds like your body is really -- I would imagine that working would probably, you know, push you towards maybe using more substances just to deal with the pain. Then what do you literally do with your days?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, it's just getting by. Like physically, you know, going to like Siloam or Disraeli to get the food that I need every day. So it's just kind of like a process of going between those places. Like I take a bus.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Back and forth.
DET. ALLAN: We know that's where -- yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That's where you said you were going before, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Kind of Disraeli and --
DET. ALLAN: So you like just go there back and forth to get food?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That's your day.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Is there a community there? Like people you hang out with or anything?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I guess so. Like 'cause I've been like a familiar around there since like 2012.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So there's people that like I know around there and it's like -- yeah, I guess it's technically considered a community, but it's very like diversed and mixed.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm. So we know that this individual used to go there. (Displays photo). The one on Disraeli.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Do you recognize this individual from Disraeli?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And who is this person?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, not Disraeli. I remember seeing her at Siloam.
DET. ALLAN: Siloam, okay. And do you know this person's name?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I do.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And what is this person's name?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Her name is Rebecca Contois.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. That's who we're talking about.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So she's the deceased individual that we're here to talk about. So thank you for you know, just accepting the obvious, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So she's -- you know, I can't even remember how old is she. 26. I may be wrong. She's a young female. Like it's a tragedy at the end of the day. And we -- or I should that we'd show you some things just to kind of help you understand how we got here, okay. So we're going to go through some of those things slowly. I'm in no rush here. So if there's something you want to talk about or you want to take a break here, and by all means at any point in time. Just chatting, okay. I guess before we go there, how far or how long -- what's the most historic memory you have of seeing this person around at any place on earth?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean, again, this gets into territory that I feel my lawyer has advised me to --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. So I guess -- again, that's a you and him thing. But you've mentioned that you saw this -- you know this person from Siloam Mission. I guess I'm just curious how long? Three months, six months, one week, nine months, a year, two years, ten years? Like the incident we're investigating --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: -- has taken place last week.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's been at least like four months. Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Okay. If we go talk to staff at Siloam Mission are they going to know you to associate with Rebecca Contois?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I have no idea.
DET. ALLAN: Fair question. Fair answer.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Right, okay. So I kind of move forward with these things and just try and, you know -- the way that I think is different than the way that you think. Is different than the way Adam thinks.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Trying to think if I was to explain the investigation I would probably overload you with like mumble jumble and jargon that doesn't really matter to anyone 'cause the experience is unique to me, right. I was at home sleeping and my phone rang. You know, I came into work. Whatever the case. It doesn't really mean anything. So for me to tell you my story it's not going, you know, be of any use to you or to people who may watch this video of us discussing, you know, Rebecca's passing. So I think of it kind of as like it's almost a big -- as if it's a movie. 'Cause it's kind of, you know, it's night. It has a start, a body and a conclusion 'cause generally most movies were... So that's where we're going to go.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So Monday morning police are called to 230 -- 253 Edison. Back lane. 'Cause there's some human remains that have been located. An individual took hold of some of those remains and they moved them, unbeknownst to them of what they were possessing and they later discover portions of this individual, okay. And that's what happens right here. That's page 2. (Displays photo). It's the green little bag, right, in a window well.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: The individual that put it there told us how it got there, right. Not a big deal, right. Until -- and just for reference here too, this is the building we're looking at. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So this is Edison. This is north facing in that picture. Are you familiar generally where this building is?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. How far from where you live you think this building is?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's within a kilometre. It's pretty close.
DET. ALLAN: Say as a bird flies, how far do you think it is?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: As a bird flies?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
DET. ALLAN: A bird can fly in a straight line 'cause it's not obstructed by trees. He can just go over it. Not obstructed by buildings.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm not sure how to (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible). It doesn't matter.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: But yeah. So that's kind of where we're at. So as we move forward we, as police, we attend. We have identified this green bag that has parts of, who we later learned to be Rebecca Contois. And the police come. And the first thing they do is they tape the area off, right. There's cops. I'm sure you've seen police tape up a hundred times. Sometimes it means something. Sometimes it means nothing. And in this case police are -- our uniform members, they do a great job, and they look around the area, right. They're looking out for many things. Being that they've learned from the individual where they found this -- this green bag in a garbage can. They go to that garbage can, and what do you think they find?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Based on what you're saying, you're saying there's human remains.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Human remains of Rebecca.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: So what do you think they find in the garbage can?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Human remains of Rebecca.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, right. Fair enough. So police come. They've identified this area and they do an additional search of the area, okay. Obviously we're contacted because just the nature of it. Obviously homicide. And our Ident officers get involved, okay. So one of the first things that they do is they point out things like surveillance footage to us, okay. So they go down and they're like okay, there's some cameras here. There's some cameras there. And we get into that kind of -- that game. And what do you think we find?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Maybe there's some footage of someone leaving the stuff there.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, absolutely, right. It's kind of how we get there.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Uh-huh.
DET. ALLAN: So there's some things that come into play though, right, with that. And I'll just -- I'm just going to shoot you straight. Like this isn't bullshit here. Your shoes, right. You have extremely large feet. You said it yourself. How wide are your feet?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's like -- were like a 6E. Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Like 6E? That's crazy wide.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Uh-huh.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. What size of shoe do you wear? Like length wise.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's like -- length wise?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I just said it.
DET. ALLAN: 6E?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You're feet are 6 -- you wear a size 6 foot?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 6E is the width.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. So what is the length of your foot?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, like 12 and a half or 13.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, you've got huge feet. Like fair enough. Like that's a big foot. I'm a 11 like D. 11 and a half D.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Uh-huh.
DET. ALLAN: What are the cases -- does anyone else wear your shoes?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Does anyone else wear my shoes?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't believe so.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So as we're out and our officers are out in the area, like our Ident officers, they notice and capture like (inaudible). Like 'cause when you walk on certain surfaces, it's my understanding, not an expert, that there's the propensity or the possibility, that you're leaving an impression, right. If you could imagine at a basketball court, it's nice and clean. You walk through dust and you're going to track it across. In that case, if the light is shining you can just see it, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: In the case of, you know, a back lane between McKay and Edison, this time of year especially, the ground's soft, right. So walking on the concrete, you know, potentially you could leave prints and dust. But if you step off the concrete into impressionable dirt, the possibility exists to leave some tread marks. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So just for context here, what we're looking for in the back, this is -- this is picture here is number 3 here. (Displays photo). This is, obviously as we discussed, it's Edison looking to the north and this is in the back lane looking south. (Displays photos). Does that make sense?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Fair. You kind of understand what this is?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So do you see here -- I'll get close here. So there's a couple of markers right on the ground. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Right. And what do you think we do? Well, we -- what do you think our Ident officers do?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: They were probably checking the footprints.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, capture them.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Right. So I guess the question is why would your footwear be in that back lane?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Why would my footwear be --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- in the back lane?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Like do you -- like is there any reason why your footwear would be -- your footwear impression would be in that back lane?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: No. Like have you walked up and down the lane, or is there any reason why? And you know since -- I can't think of the last major kind of weather system we've had, but it was really wet and it would have to be after that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So in the last four or five days why you would have walked down the back lane of Edison and McKay. So that's on the far side of your street.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Uh-huh.
DET. ALLAN: Between the Salisbury House, which is Henderson, and Roch.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: Specifically 253 Edison.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean like there's a couple of ways that I go back home.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I mean, like either I go down the back lane on McKay or Edison or I just go straight down McKay.
DET. ALLAN: Say it -- I missed that. I'm trying (inaudible). So say it again. A couple of ways you go home from --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, from Disraeli.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So you would take the bus --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: -- is that what you're saying? Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So I take the bus and I would get off either at Edison or further up McKay. Or if I'm stopping at, you know, Shoppers or something like that --
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- yeah, then I'll go down that back lane on Edison.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Would you ever -- I guess is there a reason why you'd be like at that -- the proximity at that garbage can? And if so roughly when you think that was?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Geez. I mean, that's kind of hard to like remember exactly like where, you know, I was -- where I was walking. Like I mean, in general I knew, but like I can't remember exactly like my -- you know, like the path I'm on.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: if you could just take your best guess?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I guess just on the back lane along the sides.
DET. ALLAN: And when do you think that would have been?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, last time would have been like -- I think it was the 13th, 14th. Something like that. It wasn't that long ago.
DET. ALLAN: Just look at a calendar.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it was within five days.
DET. ALLAN: So the 13th, 14th is like Friday and Saturday of last week. 'Cause today's --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That long ago already?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. So today's --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Wednesday.
DET. ALLAN: Wednesday. You came into custody Tuesday.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So how many days before -- before we met?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, geez. Now I don't remember.
DET. ALLAN: Do you go to Disraeli every day for food?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not necessarily every day, but most days, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do they have a day that they don't serve?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not really. Sorry, my fingers are going numb there. I mean, it's just when they're at capacity on weekends sometimes like I'm not able to get food.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sometimes not enough staff or something, but other than that there's -- like they always have food.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Did you ever notice if they have video surveillance there?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, for sure they do.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I've never been there, okay. So I guess the problem that we have is the direction you're talking about coming back from Disraeli.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: But we're talking the other direction now.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So when's the last time I went that way? I think on -- I'm trying to remember 'cause like the last -- the last day that I used -- I remember I was -- sometimes I'll do a lot of walking. I'm just trying to remember exactly when that was because I was sober today. Yesterday I used a little bit. And then before that there's like a couple of days where I was sober. So I think that would have been like four or five days ago. Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: So if we're calling today Wednesday. So we're looking at like Saturday -- Friday or Saturday. Like again, that's the 13th, 14th.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's not helping me to remember.
DET. ALLAN: Do you want to -- you can look at this. (Displays phone). So today's the 18th. That's like the red circle on my phone.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Tuesday is the 17th there. That's when, you know, you're arrested.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. I think that would have been like Saturday.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So I guess when we talk -- talk in here, I'm just trying to understand why we have your shoes walking in the back lane Sunday night, Monday morning. That's what I'm trying to understand.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That's a big part of why you're here right now.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, definitely.
DET. ALLAN: Like what were you doing -- what were you doing in that lane?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean, yeah, I was just trying to go and, you know, see if I can find someone to like talk to, hook up with. 'Cause it's like you know, something I do I guess when I'm high. Like I don't like just staying at home. There's no one there. I'm bored.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, I get that. It's tough, right. Meth is hard on your mind.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So on Sunday night then you were -- were you high a little bit and you want to just get out?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Probably. Yeah, 'cause it doesn't mean that I used that day to still feel the effects from like the day before.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So Sunday night, Monday morning, do you know what time it was roughly?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, I don't know. Yeah, it's difficult to remember exactly. 'Cause I'll just kind of get fixated on what I'm doing and not really pay attention to the time.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Did you see or talk to anyone?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I saw some people down the back lane. They were smoking some weed on whatchamacallit. On the stairs of a building.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you know what building it was?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That was Edison and -- what is the street that's like -- first there's like Henderson and then go further down. Is it Rothesay? I have to look at a map, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, I've got a map here. This is page 2 of my notes, okay. So I'm trying to understand. So before the map is -- I'm just trying to figure out like what route would you walk and where did you see these people.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So this is a -- I'm just going to -- can I look at it with you? Just -- sorry, it's kind of tight there. (Displays map). So can you pick your building out here? Which one. I think you're kind of in this -- mid-block here on McKay between Arby Bay and Arby Bay. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm still trying to get --
DET. ALLAN: This is obviously Henderson.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: Here's Salisbury House. This is Shapes Fitness.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, and then which one -- yeah, this is Edison there?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, this is Edison here. So this red pen, this is the address that we're talking about with the garbage can.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, like around there. Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So what route do you think you walk when you're out kind of just -- like do you have... Just in my experience with people who use meth or have like that kind of meth kind of -- like busy hands -- they like to do things they know. So like lots of people like they play with like bike parts because they know -- they don't really venture outside.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: It's (inaudible) electronics. I know with walkers, I know from obviously from listening to Adam, like not on meth, but just for people of habit, you have routes.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Is that fair? You stick to what you know.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, --
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible) has a path, right. Like the same way. So just curious, like what would your route be that day, or do you remember?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, this is the thing. Like when I'm using meth, it's not like a typical like pattern or plan because like I mean I'm using so little and so like infrequently.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That like there's not like a thing that I do that is like so like habitual that I can --
DET. ALLAN: Totally fair. Totally fair. I'm just trying to understand like how someone -- like how we got you there, right. How you're in the lane at the time and figure out what the thing is. So you're saying that you're in this back lane; is that correct?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's Edison?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. This is Edison here and this is McKay. So you're in this back lane?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And you're going towards Henderson?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So I'm just going to draw an arrow (marks on map). Can kind of barely see it. I'll draw an arrow on the white so we can see it. That's the direction you're going.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And whereabouts do you see the people in like -- in terms of --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, it's like one of these buildings.
DET. ALLAN: And it's going to be on like -- it's going to be on your left side or the right side?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Left side.
DET. ALLAN: Okay, left side. So I'm just going to circle all these building, okay. (Marks on map). I've signed it. Do you want just to put initials somewhere just saying that this is what I fucking -- the scribbles I've drawn, okay. And that's on page 2 of my notes, okay. Do you know where you go after this lane? Do you talk to people or you just see them smoke weed?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I just saw them smoking weed. I didn't talk to them.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Could you describe what they look like? Like young, old?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: They sounded young just by how they're coughing. I didn't even look at their faces.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you remember what you were wearing?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. I think I -- I think I might have been wearing like similar to what I was wearing today. Might have been wearing some track pants and a leather jacket, but I don't remember exactly --
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- I was wearing that day.
DET. ALLAN: So after you go down this lane, or after you pass this section here, it says it's like the Aztec Apartments. The little Aztecs and then you know, house (ph), apartments. Do you recall where you go next?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I walked up to Henderson, but I have difficulty -- kind of remember what I was doing. I was just wandering quite a bit. And I'm still trying to remember exactly what day it was, 'cause it wasn't that long ago.
DET. ALLAN: We're talking about like Sunday into Monday is what we're talking about. So --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it would have to be -- yeah, something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. How many times that night do you go out for walks?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That night?
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's probably quite a few. Like three or four.
DET. ALLAN: Three or four, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And do you know -- like do you take different routes or do you take the same route, or what do you do?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I just kind of went back and forth, you know, on the same streets. Like I would go down McKay up to Henderson. I go down a back lane on Edison. I think I walk down Henderson. Yeah, just go on this general area, I guess.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Sorry, I'm looking for something and I can't find it. Does that look like what you're wearing that night? (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. Like my shoes though.
DET. ALLAN: Sorry, say it again?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I said no, but that looks like my shoes though. The kind I wear.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Just keep in mind like the considerations of like what our forensics and things are going to tell us.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I know.
DET. ALLAN: We're just looking for honesty here, right. So I'm just going to ask you again. We're trying to understand why you're seen in that area. So is that you wearing that jacket and your shoes?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. I don't have a -- I don't have a jacket like that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, yeah, it's kind of crazy wearing shoes like mine for sure.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. We'll come back to this, okay. And again, like I'm just going -- just going to repeat some things I said at the start here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: We're just truth seeking, okay. So if there's a reason why you're in that lane, we'd like to know what it is, and we're looking for the truth here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Uh-huh.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So yeah. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So like I know that that's you. (Displays photo). Okay. I don't know what you're doing at that moment in time, okay. So I'm just going to ask you, is that you wearing your jacket and your pants and your shoes?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: It's a fairly leading question. I'd say it's one of the worst I've ever asked. But okay. We'll come back to this, okay. So yeah, I can just put that to you. So as we continue with the movie, right, kind of jumping -- jumping around. This is kind of again why I try to stick to the movie 'cause my brain's always, you know, (inaudible). We've got a garbage can where we have, you know, some human remains. And as we go forward, lo and behold we've got that. (Displays photo). So that is page 10. What does that look like to you?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, that's a human hand right there.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm. So our Ident officers are able to obtain a fingerprint from that hand.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And we're able to establish that that is Rebecca Contois' hand. And what's of interest to us as investigators is the proximity of her hand -- is right close to these -- to the footwear impressions, right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And we have now -- we have you in that back lane multiple times that night just walking around. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: What do you mean you have me walking around?
DET. ALLAN: Sorry. We're talking, and you're saying that between Sunday and Monday, overnight.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Like in the night time hours --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: -- you're walking in that back lane. We're just trying to understand how you're here. Like I'm trying to understand what your day looked like and what not, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So as we continue with our surveillance cam search, I'm going to go more -- I'm going to show more pictures, okay. This is kind of a boring one. But like lots of what we do is we canvass for video surveillance. Like don't think I -- I probably should have started with that, and I apologize 'cause it kind of confuses things a little bit. So we as homicide investigators, one of the big undertakings that we take on is canvassing for video surveillance, okay. And I know from -- I should say I believe from that night that when you were, you know, walking around, you weren't wearing your glasses is my impression. I could be wrong, but that's my impression. And one of the reasons I believe that is your vision doesn't seem very good. Like you seem to have to -- as you're walking, you seem to have to get close to things to see them. And it's kind of like how you described earlier when I was asking about your glasses. I'm not sure if it was here or if it was when we were coming through our CPU intake. But you mentioned -- what kind of vision do you have?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Near-sighted.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So what does that mean?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That I have difficulty seeing like clarity. It's just hexed.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So like I mean like I don't have difficulty seeing where the outlay of things are. It's just reading text.
DET. ALLAN: So can you see far well?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: In regards of like --
DET. ALLAN: Just generally speaking, yes or no? Like I wear glasses to see far. I have to squint to read things. How is your vision afar? Is it not the greatest?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I would say not the greatest.
DET. ALLAN: Fair enough. No big deal, right. So one thing though is that as you're out and you're moving around, you're walking by a lot of security cameras.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And it's kind of how our investigation starts going here, okay. So if we come to the picture -- the motion picture I should say, just imagine the phone rings. Our Ident goes. Uniform is there. We discover a hand. Of course there's some other things. And we identify Rebecca Contois is our deceased. And myself, Adam and a whole bunch of other hard working people in our office, we put our work shoes on and we get out there and we start looking for video. It's like one of the first things we do. And I say like the comment of the glasses because the way you're walking and the things you're moving towards, it just doesn't make sense. And I didn't really put that together till just now 'cause I'm like well, that's like me. And when I was -- when I'm out and I want to see something without my glasses, I've got to get close to it, and it's just kind of weird, right. You see a pretty girl and you want to go see how pretty she is up close 'cause you can't see far. It's weird, right. You're like walking. It's like oh, what's up here. And it's like why is he being weird and creepy, right. But (inaudible). Here's just a good example of that, right. (Displays photo). So this is the back of the Midas. Do you know where Midas is?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So this is a close-up of page 6. I'm just going to circle here. Like right here. (Marks photo). Doesn't seem like much. Just a little bump on the wall, but that's a high definition security camera.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Uh-huh.
DET. ALLAN: Most of the ones that we've come across in this investigation are called Height Vision. They are like -- they're very good, right. So just imagine. We're out there. We're grinding. Doing what we do. Trying to get surveillance footage. And throughout our, what we call video canvass, we see you walking around in laps, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And we're trying to figure what you're doing, right, because you're in this lane numerous times and we have a deceased person, okay. And we know that you frequent a place that this deceased person frequents. Fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So there's a little bit of -- like at this point in the process, we're a little bit -- we're a little bit leery, right. Little bit -- not suspicious, but we're -- you're a person of interest to us. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So lo and behold, we move forward with the investigation and we obviously make this gruesome discovery. (Displays photo). That is Rebecca's head in a -- in a Dollar Store bag.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh. Yeah. Oh, I can't even look at that.
DET. ALLAN: Well, what's -- what's the issue?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, it's just disturbing.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, well this is -- this is the nature of human beings. You know, this is how a human being lost their life. So I find all loss of life disturbing. This is particularly gruesome. Yeah. (Displays photo). So I guess the questions that --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh.
DET. ALLAN: The questions that we have is -- where is that picture? What were you doing in the lane? (Displays photo). Right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The thing I don't get, like I don't like have clothes like that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So like I don't believe that's me right there.
DET. ALLAN: So you don't believe it's you, or it's not you? 'Cause again, we're looking for the truth, right. And maybe there's a way that you can explain away why you were in that lane at that time.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I was explaining, you know, I was walking around, but again, like I don't have any clothes like that so it couldn't be me there.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Jeremy. (Indicating on photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Those are your shoes.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Have you listened to everything that Greg said?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Those are your shoes. That's you. Those are your shoes, man. We have them. We have your shoes. We have footwear impressions. Those are your shoes. We have your shoes on video. You wear custom orthotics. You have giant feet. It's like (inaudible) that is your shoes. Those are your shoes, and those are your feet inside them, and you're walking in the lane there. Before this continues to go down this road, I think that in your mind you can see where this is going, and we're giving you every opportunity to start talking about why you're there. Greg's given you every single opportunity. I'm sitting back here watching and listening.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: This is your opportunity. Because the further this goes down the road -- like there's going to be an end to this at some point.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: It's an opportunity for you to explain what you're doing there. And maybe you have a good explanation. But that's you in your shoes. There's no doubt about it that that's you in your shoes. We have no doubt. He has no doubt. I have no doubt that's you in your shoes.
DET. ALLAN: We all know -- we all know the truth.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: And you know that too.
DET. ALLAN: But we're trying to figure out what were you doing in the lane. So Jeremy, what were you doing in the lane?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I mean like I remember being there, but the thing is I don't, you know, remember wearing anything like that, and they do -- I mean, they look like my shoes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: No, no. They're your shoes.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: It's just the reality of the situation, right Jeremy?
DET. ALLAN: Adam, can we -- can you give me some timeframes for these? Like we've got -- these images are captured in and around, I want to say, 11:24 p.m. on the Sunday into, I want to say, about 12:17 a.m. on the Monday. Is that consistent with your time travels? Like with your path of walking?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Probably would have been, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So obviously we know that -- footwear, it's not as unique as your fingerprints, right, but they do leave unique markings, especially when they're older, is my understanding. So like an older shoe has more -- has more experience, right. It's walked more steps. It's got more marks. More nicks. More cuts. From our quick look at your shoes that you have here, they're pretty -- you've had them a while; is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Okay. So we noticed there's some blood on your shoes. I didn't see any -- you had like some eczema on your leg.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Have you cut -- do you have any recent injuries that would -- have you been around anyone that's been like cut or something like that, where they'd be blood on your shoes? Obviously you've had those shoes for a long time so I don't know. Like could you provide some background as to how that blood got on your shoes? I should too, just because I really want to be honest with you, it looks like blood to me. It hasn't been tested yet. Our Ident officers have been working like you wouldn't believe day and night on this file, but it's my assumption. I know that 'cause I played sports and I've cut myself and had blood on my cleats, right. So I kind of have that perception. Could be wrong. But why is there blood on your shoes?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I think, you know, at this point I mean it's...
DET. DANYLYSHYN: The wheels aren't turning anymore for you, Jeremy.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: There's a reason why.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes, yes, yes.
DET. ALLAN: We're looking for the truth.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: We're just looking for the truth, man. What's going on? What are you doing in the lane?
DET. ALLAN: Just let's --
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Just put it out there. Get it off of your chest. Get it out there. What are you doing in the back lane?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I understand it's important to, you know, speak right now though. The reason I was asking before for an orthodox priest is that knowing that, you know, being incarcerated I may never have that opportunity again. I have a lot more information. I just want to get a priest to confess my sins.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. So unfortunately in this position, we can't promise you things.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: That's not how this relationship works.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I appreciate that there's some pretty heavy things in your heart that you probably need to talk about.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: 'Cause you're a human being. And obviously some things have happened to Rebecca that we need to get some closure. Is that fair? I can tell you this. Once this is done and we move on, we can give counsel, Mr. Sneesby, a call. He's got a card.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And we can ask him to bring a specific orthodox priest --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: -- to Remand to see you if that's what you'd like. I'm sure you can have a conversation with him in private there. That's not something we can do right now though, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: I have no problem doing that. I don't think that that's -- not a promise. That's not like a -- I'm not trying to induce you to say something. It's just something I'll do for anyone who is seeking -- you know, seeking spiritual guidance. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I think, you know, when it comes down to it, it's if I fail to, you know, for example, ever have contact with an orthodox priest then I mean by default I should be able to take my sins to God. At this point, I want to express that you've done a very good job. You guys are obviously not stupid. I really just want to see how far, you know, I could take things because the criminal justice system is a joke. The world that we're living in is sick. I was driven to do stuff like this because I was so -- so spent emotionally.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I killed four people.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Thank you for your honesty. Do you know their names?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Morgan Harris. The other one just showed up in the missing persons or whatever. I didn't even know her name before. I think it was [name withheld]. One I don't even know her name, but if you just keep showing me pictures I could probably recognize her face. I don't think she's even shown up as a missing person.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And Rebecca.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Thank you for having the courage to share that with us. Obviously you're going to face criminal charges on these things --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: -- if we can substantiate that these women have been murdered. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You understand that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, no. Because I -- I did this because I believe that there should be capital punishment.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And that this is racially motivated. That I felt sickened because I was, you know, told that, you know -- my wife, you know, she's part Native, part gypsy. This whole thing about racial purity. The extinction of the white race. You know, the great replacement theory. Globalism. Bullshitism. An effort to eradicate white people. I don't believe that races are meant to be forced to live together. And this existence that I've had is just completely messed up because of liberalism and --
DET. ALLAN: The last couple of years have been hard.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The only thing that I regret is -- the first one that I killed, compared to the rest of them, I told them all "pray to Jesus." I don't know why I wasn't thinking the first -- I think it was just 'cause I was high or whatever, but God will sort that out. And I really tried to not prolong their suffering.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Would you mind if I just ask you a couple of questions to try and understand what's happened here? So the first female, was it [name withheld]?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: [name withheld] I think.
DET. ALLAN: [name withheld].
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That was the first girl that you killed?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: When was that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think -- when was the day the pandemic restrictions ended?
DET. ALLAN: That would have been like the fall-time maybe. December. Where were you living at the time?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Same place.
DET. ALLAN: Same place, okay. So you moved -- my understanding is you moved in there in November of --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, I don't recall.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It would have been at least, you know, January, February.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I can't recall exactly.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Where did you meet her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm trying to remember. Oh, I saw her like outside Salvation Army.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: How much contact would you have had with her before --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not much. Well, even before that like nothing because I had just met her like outside of Salvation Army.
DET. ALLAN: And how -- what did the situation look like? Would it have been something where you would have just asked her to come back?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Like she hung out with me once. She was there for a little bit and then just kind of like took off.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Did anything (ph) -- it was before I started to relapse too. It definitely played a part, the drug usage. It's what -- well, it wasn't meth that time. I was coming off of mushrooms and I think that's kind of what pushed me over the edge from like --
DET. ALLAN: Like hallucinogenics type thing?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, yeah, mushrooms are hallucinogenic.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But it just kind of like you know, pushed me over the edge from like you know, what was like a psychological thought process to -- into reality. Like I still I can't even believe I did that.
DET. ALLAN: Like in that moment when you -- was the motive kind of like racially motivated or was it just like drug induced and just like hatred? Like what kind of got you there?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: There's a lot of these things in my mind, and kind of the one thing where I became like extremely triggered is like you know, she -- she'd say, "I love you, daddy." Is what she said to me. And when you say something like that to me, it's just like I don't take that lightly. And she -- she stole from me. I was thinking about -- I was horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible. Like I -- holy fuck, man. I'm so fucked up. Yeah, I fucked her corpse after. That's bad, man.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Well, I know it's not an easy thing to talk about. And I appreciate you --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But I have to address it, man.
DET. ALLAN: There's these things in life you have to deal with.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So how did she pass? Like what was the cause of death per se?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So do you want me to just describe what happened or literally just how she died?
DET. ALLAN: You can tell me what happened.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Yeah, she was -- yeah, I guess she was just getting ready to go. I know she had like you know, a number of my things. And, oh yeah, here's -- here's the other thing. Like I -- I think I have -- it's called Saviour Syndrome. The reason why is because when I went to court -- was it court? Yeah, it was in court over my wife to get the protection order dropped and it was something that the counsellor at care centre brought up. Like noticing me, I guess like my behaviour or whatever. Because I guess -- I guess the belief was is that me taking like control of her life and situation up until she was able to like you know, get a grip herself.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Because like what I did is like -- I honestly believe that [wife's name withheld] was wanting to die from her lifestyle and things (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: From her drug use.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I basically held her hostage or whatever. It wasn't to hurt her.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It was because I sincerely loved her.
DET. ALLAN: Like a safekeeping.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: A little bit more than that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But yeah, like I was trying to protect her from, you know, a lot of things that she was going through. Like I honestly believe that she is sober and alive today because of me. But yeah, the other point that is concerning is the -- 'cause I read into it. It's called Sleeping Beauty Syndrome. I believe I also had that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Nothing wrong with that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: This is probably all stuff that has to do with like when I was molested as a child. How it affected me.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 'Cause the way I think it would have happened is because my feeling of powerlessness as --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- a child when that was happening to me, it just kind of manifested itself as like you know, having a lack of power, I wanted to have that power. So I became attracted to, you know, a woman that is unconscious or is intoxicated. Unable to like help herself.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Or dead.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And like watching porn and stuff like that that involved things like that.
DET. ALLAN: Some pretty aggressive things.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And that was not helpful. Like for a long time I stopped watching that. [wife's name withheld] was kind of okay with me having sex with her while she was sleeping.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And that's how like everything seemed to kind of just be stable.
DET. ALLAN: Kind of operated.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And then after that fell apart, you know, and I started getting into the drug usage with --
DET. ALLAN: Kind of started struggling.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Thank you for sharing this 'cause obviously it's personal stuff. Jeremy, like I know I said it. I'm going to say it again so I don't screw something up here. So these additional three women, obviously you're going to be charged with them if we can substantiate that they have been killed or they're missing, whatever the case is. Do you understand that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. You have the right to talk to a lawyer still. If you want to talk to Mr. Sneesby, you can talk to him again if you want right now. If you want to continue, we can continue. It's up to you. It's your choice.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The only reason I want to talk to him is because he might help me get, you know, a priest.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Well, at this point in time, kind of like we discussed there, we're not going to have a priest come in here right now.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: But I can make that call afterwards.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: But outside of that though, do you want to call counsel now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. If at any point in time you feel you want to just say, you know, "Greg, can I make that call."
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sure.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, because I'm going to plead guilty to all of it because it doesn't like -- what happens to me it's like it's never going to be enough. Even capital punishment, I mean that's -- I'm one person. It doesn't matter. Understand?
DET. ALLAN: I can hear your frustration with the system and where things are going. With the first girl, just briefly, how did you kill her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I started to like to choke her out and I thought she was dead, but she wasn't. Like I was kind of like planning on drowning her in the bathtub. And when I was undressing her she became consciously aware. And then I drowned her in the bathtub. The last thing she said to me was "Fuck you," and I understand why.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. After she passed or succumbed, what did you do with her remains?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I did some pretty indecent things with her remains before -- and I can specify if you want.
DET. ALLAN: I know, but you mentioned you've had intercourse with her -- with her corpse.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Nods head affirmative).
DET. ALLAN: Just in terms of maybe disposal (inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I took her down the stairs. I brought one of those garbage bins, or whatever, into the building and put her in there and I rolled her all the way up to the end of McKay in one of those businesses there.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And I almost couldn't get her in, but I managed to. It took all my strength. I was just very close to just leaving her there. And the bizarre thing is that like something had told me the last time like I'm going to be caught. Like I just knew. But I did it anyway. Just I wasn't listening to that.
DET. ALLAN: That person. Was that --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, it was like -- like kind of like -- not like an audible voice, but it was just --
DET. ALLAN: Your inner monologue.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And so that was just -- in your mind's eye as that's happening, as you're rolling the bin down, it's still wintertime? Or is it like dead of winter? Is it kind of springtime?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, it was still -- it was still like -- yeah, I remember there was still kind of like snow on the ground I think.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Questions, Adam, about the first female?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Just the commercial bin that you're speaking of, where was that? Like do you remember where that was? Like I guess --
DET. ALLAN: What direction did you go?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, what direction?
DET. ALLAN: Did you go up towards like the Shapes?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And like Midas. Or did you go --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it was towards the Shapes.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, that's it.
DET. ALLAN: Our second female, what was her name? Was that the one that you don't know her name?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Let me think. No.
DET. ALLAN: You don't. So --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Let me think. Like I'm obviously not hiding anything.
DET. ALLAN: No.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But it's just an example of how bad my memory is right now.
DET. ALLAN: Jeremy, I appreciate... You know, I'm going to ask you a question just on the first female.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do you have anything or did you keep any of her belongings?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: For some time and then it was tossed out all the stuff that was in there. It just kept piling up.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So nothing from the first female?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not unless I missed something.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I don't want to mess up your order, but just for the sake of maybe recollection, you know you can -- we don't have to go -- do we want to just talk about Rebecca. I don't want to interrupt.
DET. ALLAN: Let's just go chronologically and just (inaudible). But fair. Our second female, do you recall her name?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I think that would be Morgan Harris.
DET. ALLAN: Morgan Harris, yeah. (Inaudible) looking out for her awhile here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: How did you meet Morgan?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I met her at Siloam a long time ago. It would have been like maybe eight years ago. Seven, eight years ago.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Maybe 10 years ago actually. 2012, I think might have been the first time I seen her.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Indigenous female?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: How long after our first female?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mmm. Like a month or two, something like that.
DET. ALLAN: After?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Could you just maybe do the same thing. Just give me a bit of -- give us a bit of an overview as to --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: What happened to her?
DET. ALLAN: Just leading up to mostly her murder.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I guess I saw her outside Siloam. Before that saw her at the Disraeli and asked her if she wanted to come and chill. But then she was distracted or whatever. Went to Disraeli. I saw her like the next day or the day after at Siloam. And just saw that -- I guess she was barred from there or whatever. They wouldn't let her in.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And I saw her walking down the street or whatever. So I was like okay, maybe I'll just go talk to her. Went and talked to her. And then she took the bus with me to my place. And then yeah, she started -- like with all of these times, like these are definitely like drug fuelled.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But I'm not blaming the drugs.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I knew what I was doing, man.
DET. ALLAN: So you end up back at your apartment.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: At 259?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And just what happened as that evening kind of -- or as that period of time moves forward?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I guess I had -- I had filled up the bathtub again. I was planning on doing that. And then I guess when she went out for a smoke -- like I wasn't even going to let her have that, but I was thinking, like fuck, this is going to be her last smoke so I let her enjoy that. My lights were off and I tried to like you know, pushing her into the bathtub. And then she started to like freak out a little bit and I was like, "Yeah, like don't worry, don't worry." And as soon as she kind of turned around I got her in a headlock. Then she kind of like collapsed with her head into the tub. She fought, but didn't work out for her. I'm not sure if you need too many more details 'cause it's like --
DET. ALLAN: So cause of death is drowning?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So she drowns. She passes. Goes still I assume.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And then what happens?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Same thing with the defiling or whatever you want to call it. And then --
DET. ALLAN: Like you have sex with the corpse?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. How many times?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Each of them it's like a bunch. I guess until like you know, the decay or smell was too much basically.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Then how do you dispose of Morgan's body?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Same way except it was behind Midas this time because the other one that I used they put like a lock on it.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So that one was behind the Midas. The first one was the car repair shop next to Midas.
DET. ALLAN: It's Tony's maybe?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's the one.
DET. ALLAN: So obviously looking at Rebecca, she's been dismembered. Is Morgan dismembered or is she disposed of whole?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Whole.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And the reason why she is dismembered and the other one was because they would have been too heavy to get into one bin.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I dismembered them with a combat knife.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Is that combat knife in your place now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do you know what colour it is?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's black.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The blade and everything. It's got scuffs on it.
DET. ALLAN: What's the handle? What kind of style is it? Like a grip style or --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. It's like -- like almost like a sword hilt.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Serrated blade?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Nods head affirmative).
DET. ALLAN: Fairly sharp, I would assume.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I was using it to cut carpet and wasn't sharpening it so it was not particularly sharp. That's why with Rebecca I used a second knife. Like I used both of them, but the second knife was like a kitchen knife, which was sharper. It was much better cutting through flesh.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So what does that second knife look like?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's like a kitchen knife. It's like a wooden handle. I guess like a beige kind of handle. And it comes out like that to a point (indicating).
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you know where that knife is in your place, where you store it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm not sure if I still left them in my bathroom or if I moved them. Might still be on the floor in the bathroom. Otherwise, I don't know where I would have moved them after.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And like the combat knife, would it be with --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, they'd be together.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Our third female, is this the one whose name you don't know?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Correct.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Where do you meet her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: In the back lane -- what's that; Henry? I guess when you're going between like -- if you're walking from Salvation Army to Siloam, if you're going through that back lane on Henry.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm. Like the living room. I think sometimes it's called the living room.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I forget. No, it's piss and shit corner, but that's new to me.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I should say, how long after Morgan's murder is the third female? Till you make contact with her or you meet her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Three, four weeks, a month.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm just trying to answer the best I can.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. No, it's fair. With her, what does she look like?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's very difficult to kind of describe specifically because, you know, even when I met her was wearing like -- well, I'm taking before -- before Rebecca, like I'm pretty sure I would have been able to get away with like all of it, but I just -- I got sloppy. Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do you think you would have stopped?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I wanted to, but I don't think I could have.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Could have stopped on my own.
DET. ALLAN: Fair. It's a tough topic to talk about.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I'm just -- I'm sick too.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, I know. Like I can see that you've had -- you know, you're kind of -- from a young age, the deck was stacked against you. I'll ask this. (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Her appearance. I think maybe she's maybe like 5'4", 140 pounds. She said she was 20. She was definitely younger.
DET. ALLAN: Indigenous?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: What's like her skin tone?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Swarthy.
DET. ALLAN: Like a darker -- darker skin?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: How long is her hair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, it was long. Down to her back.
DET. ALLAN: Did she say anything about where she's from or...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, some kind of Reserve, or whatever, but she's been in Winnipeg since she was young she said.
DET. ALLAN: Manitoba?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Anything -- like did she wear glasses?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, she was wearing sunglasses. She was wearing like a red cap and baggy clothes. She had like a whole bunch of like bracelets and necklaces, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: By chance do you have any of her items left or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: There might be somewhere. Yeah, like the bracelets or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: Bracelets.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Something like that, yeah. There might -- oh, Morgan's -- she had a ring that was there.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think that might be there. (Inaudible) might still be there.
DET. ALLAN: They were talking about some pills or something in your place. I'll get into that later, but Marsden was the last name.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, that was someone that was just staying there.
DET. ALLAN: So they belong to your friend, or whatever?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So our third female is Indigenous, 5'4", 20, 140 pounds, dark skin, long hair.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Anything else you can tell us just so we can try getting (inaudible) her family.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think I'd be able to recognize her with her teeth because they weren't like particularly straight. She had all her teeth, but you know, they were just kind of -- like you could tell that she like either didn't wear braces or not long enough. Yeah, it's kind of difficult to use understandable, relatable terms to describe what she looks like.
DET. ALLAN: Like generally. You've kind of got her as a 140 pounds. Is that like a skinny build, an average build? Is she, you know, pretty? Is she kind of --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, she's very pretty.
DET. ALLAN: Any unique markings, moles, tattoos, scars?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She had a tattoo I think on the back of her shoulder, but I don't remember what.
DET. ALLAN: The time you met her in the laneway --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: -- that was the first time you saw her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Was she hanging out with anyone?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. What did she have with her for like -- you talk about clothing. Did she have any bags or anything with her? Did she talk about where she was coming from?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't think -- I don't think she had a bag. She didn't say where she was coming from. I just asked, you know, "Do you have a place? Do you want to, you know, come with me?" or whatever. And it's just like -- I mean, none of these cases like I really like thought it through, but it was just like when I started to use and like the wheel would start spinning. Same thing with Rebecca too, like I had no intention at all, but then after I used, you know, I would start doing things like fill up the bathtub. I didn't drown her, but you know, it's part of my thought process after I got high.
DET. ALLAN: If we talk about this female, this third one, so it's a situation where you asked her to come back to your place.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Again, same place (inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Nods head affirmative).
DET. ALLAN: Okay. What kind of transpires as you get into your apartment?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I guess I was talking with her about arrangements for her to stay, that I was only really interested in a relationship. And I guess like it just turns out like you know, like -- like much like Rebecca's case that she was just, you know, using me for a place to stay and, you know, it was just kind of like agreeing with what I said just so that she could take advantage of me, and that's kind of how I saw it, and yeah. I mean like when I start to get high and stuff, like this thought process is like going like a hundred miles a minute. I was just -- yeah. And then the thing is like for me it just kind of came down to, you know, the feeling of helplessness, powerlessness. And when I felt that, you know then that's a trigger for my, you know, other sicknesses like the Sleeping Beauty Syndrome. And like when she, you know... Oh yeah, like we were having sex like consensually, but then like when she wanted to like -- she didn't let me finish basically and then I was, you know, starting to get like a little bit rough with her. And then like when she started to fight, that's when I got triggered. Same thing with like Rebecca. Because it's just like these things are kind of like -- almost like passive thoughts, but like when there's like violence or whatever that starts to happen, that triggers something else.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it's like a chain reaction kind of. But there is one person -- what's her name? [name withheld]. I don't know her last name, but I was wanting to drown her also but her response when she didn't freak out or anything --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- which is like I'm sure that is one of the reasons why nothing happened to her. But it made more sense to me after, I did notice she was wearing -- she was wearing a cross and I said --
DET. ALLAN: She was wearing a rosary?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, like around her neck.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like a wooden rosary. Yeah, it was very -- good point. 'Cause it wasn't just a cross. It was a rosary she was wearing when I think about it.
DET. ALLAN: I don't want to plant ideas here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, no. This is true. This reminds me.
DET. ALLAN: So with our third female whose name we don't know, just moving forward with that. So you're having consensual sex. She kind of says no.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And you get rough with her.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Then what kind of -- what escalates from there?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I tried to like calm her down, but she kept fighting basically and was going to leave and I thought like well, this is a liability because I already killed some people before. And I was like well, yeah, I'm not going to go down for this and, yeah, I fucking... In that case -- like I mean like I guess I didn't have it in me before, like with the first victim, to like completely strangle her to death.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I guess there was like some level of denial almost, but you know, she was -- was still alive or whatever, going back to think about that. But yeah, when I think about it... Oh yeah, that's -- that's what it was now that I remember. Like I was going to like finish her in the tub and she woke up when I was undressing her. But in this case, the one that I can't remember her name, yeah, like I just -- like I was going to get her in a headlock or whatever. Going like this or whatever (indicating). I couldn't. Like couldn't get my arm around her. So I just went in the front like this (indicating). And I kept going until she was like skull and crossbones dead. And there was a time like before this. [name withheld]. I let her go. Yeah. I remember like it was like you know, like a lion, you know, with prey in its mouth. Like it was such a fucked up kind of like experience where I just stopped and just kind of observed what was happening. And I felt like kind of like a wave. A rush of guilt and I just stopped. But I guess the more sick I got, the less I, you know, cared about things and the more I felt that I was being directed by God -- yeah, I do think for the first couple of them I -- well, not the first one. But then I started to rationalize the first one and thought like oh yeah, that was her time, I guess. And then that's when I started to kind of like view it as like -- kind of like mercy killings, I guess you could say. People are already suffering. Mentally ill. Like Morgan was very, very ill. The young one, like that's, you know, like --
DET. ALLAN: The young girl is the third female?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The 20 year old. That one, I mean, perhaps that was her time to go, but it was just -- that one I still kind of like feel a little bit more guilt for that one and not as much for Rebecca because she was also very like ill.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So that one it was just kind of like a bad decision rather than being like --
DET. ALLAN: In terms of with Rebecca or we're still talking about the third one?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The third one.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. So I might be a little bit lost, so sorry to kind of... So just to summarize it, there's consensual sex. Then it's kind of unconsensual where you're getting rough with her. And then you -- did you get on top of her when you're choking her with two hands?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You say you try to like put her in like a rear kind of maybe choke.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And then you come on top of her. Is she on the ground? Are you kind of like leaning over her or is it standing or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She was trying to get up. I was kind of like still on the bed so like it was kind of like that (indicating). And then I brought her to the ground after and then I was on top.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So then does she go unconscious while you're choking her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: In and out of consciousness I think.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And is this -- I'm just not sure if I'm blending things together with [name withheld] or this [name withheld]. And then you go and you run the water when she's kind of in and out consciousness. Is that correct or is it --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, that was like -- it was already done before.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So the water was already running? Or sorry, the water's already in the tub?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The tub was already full.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And then what happens next?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: With who?
DET. ALLAN: The young one, 20 years old.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I just -- oh, sorry.
DET. ALLAN: It's okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It was just -- like it was just strangulation until death.
DET. ALLAN: In the tub or no --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, it was just strangulation.
DET. ALLAN: So water was not used?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not -- not her. Not her murder, no.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And then what do you do with her? I guess, do you have sex with her -- with her corpse?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Nods head affirmative).
DET. ALLAN: Several times again?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Nods head affirmative).
DET. ALLAN: And do you kind of hold it the same thing where not until there's like that smell to move her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And how do you move her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That one it's like -- here's the thing. Like I -- because it was so like fast that situation how it happened.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I didn't really have a proper gauge of how big she actually was. Like I guess, even though like her bone structure is not very big --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- like she still had like a considerable layer of visceral fat. She wasn't fat fat, but like it was still enough that like I knew she was considerably heavier than the first two victims.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I thought like there's no -- like no way I'd be able to get her over the edge of the bin. So that was the first time I cut up a body, which was fucked up.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Those images will never go away.
DET. ALLAN: How did you cut her up?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: With my combat knife.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: In the bathtub while the water was full with some Pine Sol to kind of like negate the smell, which was quite horrible, but that just kind of neutralized it.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So she's like -- kind of like she's in the tub covered and that you're cutting kind of into the water in the tub?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. How long did she stay in the tub?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, 'cause I mean there was a period of time like when -- wait, was it with that one? Let me think. Yeah. Yeah, so like I -- you know, because she was already kind of like smelly even before -- even before she died --
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- I brought her into the tub to wash her off first and then I ran the tub after like when she started to like -- then you know the smell of death more.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So she's in the tub twice. The second time it was -- oh, might have been in there, you know, 'cause I would have to spend like almost, you know, like 12 hours, like not consistently, but just like it took a long time to cut the body into pieces.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But yeah, would have been in the tub for like 10, 12 hours with Pine Sol. And like there was a couple of times like when it would start to fill up with like blood that it would overpower the smell so I'd have to kind of like drain the tub and fill it up and add more Pine Sol.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Any questions with that one?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (Shakes head negative).
DET. ALLAN: So then into -- into Rebecca.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I guess, sorry. Yeah, I think there's --
DET. ALLAN: That's three.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I don't think I missed it, but number 3 where did you --
DET. ALLAN: Oh, disposal, yeah. Sorry. Yeah, absolutely missed that.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: 'Cause this is the first time you've now kind of cut up the body, right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So what did you do with that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm thinking, thinking, thinking. I legit can't remember. Maybe it'll come back to me.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's just like I'm just drawing blanks right now.
DET. ALLAN: Sure. Well, if it does we'll cover it off again. Sorry, I kind of broke your chain of thought there, so...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I was probably the most high that one too which is kind of why things were so like --
DET. ALLAN: Out of sorts.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Can we talk about Rebecca?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So when did Rebecca come over? So we have you on surveillance, like again, Sunday at like 11:30 p.m. into -- at almost to 2:00 a.m. But like definitely till 12:30 is kind of how it went and where we certainly have you. Kind of in taking laps.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Would have been like the Friday or Saturday because it's like -- I mean like typically within like -- let me think. Yeah, typically within 12 hours it's just like to --
DET. ALLAN: It's time to dispose of the body type thing, is that what you mean?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So yeah, it's difficult to remember just because of -- like I'm pre- harnessed with meth and my memory, but I would say it might have been like Friday or Saturday.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And were you messaging her or something like before she comes over? How do you come across her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: Like were you guys kind of half dating or something? Like it's like a -- it sounds like a little different with her; is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: 'Cause all these other females so far have been like one -- basically short period of time. Something like that. They were there and they left and they came back, except for Rebecca. There's a bit of relations there.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. It was like when I first, you know -- well, I guess it doesn't really matter at this -- well, it does matter in a sense that like I'm trying to be clear. There's obviously times I was lying to you guys before, and that will become apparent when we go through this information.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The fact is I'm coming clean at this point.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. We're aware of that and thank you for your honesty. I know how difficult this is.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I met her on the bus rather than Siloam.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And the first night I was with her, like I guess she was intoxicated or whatever because she was like very like promiscuous, whatever. Showed me her pussy, or whatever. And like we had sex the first time. And then like it became less and less, you know, desirable for her, I guess. 'Cause I guess after she started to like sober up the next couple of days... Like she -- like she was telling me like, "Oh, we didn't have sex." So she clearly had no memory of it or whatever. And I tried being patient with her saying, "Okay. Like I'm not going to pressure you into it, but like you can't stay here if you're just like here and you're not putting out basically." So I mean, there was a period of time where like she just decided to kind of like leave because that's not what she wanted and that's -- you know, that's fine. But then I guess she started coming back. And then we talked or whatever and it was -- you know, like she said she loved me too, but like I knew that she was just bullshitting me just to get what she wanted. And that's probably one of the reasons I did what I did because like I just -- I saw right through it. Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So what's the timeframe here that we're talking in terms of you meeting her on the bus to where things are kind of in and out?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, that was a couple of months ago when I first met her on the bus.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And then she's been -- like I guess before I killed her she had been coming not every day, but like I mean like she'd come for a few days and then not show up and then come again.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Can you talk about how? How you end up murdering her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Yeah, so same kind of thing, but like all I had to do -- all I had to do is just fucking let her sleep and then like you know, tell her I don't want you to come back here anymore. But after I got high and she didn't do what I said like sexually, same kind of thing. She'd being saying like get off or whatever. Start to fight me. I put her in a choke hold like that (indicating). So same thing. Just choked her to death.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Where would have been?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: In the living room there, I guess, you could say.
DET. ALLAN: Kind of like your bedroom?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Which was my bedroom, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So she dies obviously. Do you kill her on like the bed? Is that correct?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And then what do you do next?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, her, she was way too fucking heavy to even like you know, consider bringing to the bathtub just to clean and bring her back because it also makes a lot of noise. Fuck, man, she's like I don't know, a hundred and eighty pounds or something. She's definitely the biggest one. So like I mean, because obviously she's going to have like a smell of urine, whatever on her having people die. So like I, you know, brought like a washcloth to kind of clean her down. Specifically so I could just do whatever with her.
DET. ALLAN: Like have sex with her corpse?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And then, yeah, I guess that went on from like -- I don't know like -- something like 7:00 or 8:00 in the morning until like 7:00 or 8:00 at night or sooner. That's when I had to bring her into the bathtub to dismember it or whatever because it's going to start to get too smelly in the building.
DET. ALLAN: So are we kind of like Friday evening she comes over?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And then --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Or Saturday, I...
DET. ALLAN: So if we can go back. So Sunday -- Sunday, like late night. It's like 11:30 we have you moving around like the back lane area.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm. So it's Sunday you said?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, Sunday evening.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, maybe it was Saturday.
DET. ALLAN: So then like Friday she comes over. Into Saturday she's killed and then kind of Saturday morning, or did she come over during the daytime?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah, it was like late at night she came. So like just like Saturday night.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And so then one day of her arrival you would have been disposing of her body?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think so because she arrived at night and it was like 6:00 or 7:00 in the morning that I had killed her.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So 6:00 or 7:00 in the morning you killed her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So you kind of have had all day to, you know, deal with her corpse and then you start dismembering?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And again, you dismember her in the tub while she's covered in water?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And it's laundry detergent because I was out of --
DET. ALLAN: Pine Sol.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- Lysol.
DET. ALLAN: How do you -- like how many pieces do you cut her body into?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just her head, her two arms and two legs.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So, and her torso is disposed of in the -- one of the apartment buildings before the two automotive.
DET. ALLAN: Tony -- around Tony's and Midas?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's like a big brown bin.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's like there's a chute or something that comes down.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And the refuse will drop in like some kind of like --
DET. ALLAN: Do you remember how much garbage was in the can when you tossed the --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, it was almost full. Like I had to kind of like make some space or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And the other two were like locked.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you recall where -- obviously we just talked about where her head is, just from the conversation we had earlier.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do you recall where you put the arms and the legs?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. That's like somewhere on like Edison. Like one of the dumpsters there.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Did you pay attention to when garbage day pick-up was?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So when was garbage day pick-up?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Monday.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So is it -- did you intentionally like time the disposal of the pick-up?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So then when you're seeking out a victim, was it something where you had prior knowledge of, okay, this is my window to identify a victim to, you know, to kill, dismember or dispose of for pick-up. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That became part of my thought process like by the third time.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 'Cause the other times like I wasn't really considering that. That was more like on like spur of the moment.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And -- what was I going to say? Sorry, what were we just talking about?
DET. ALLAN: Disposal and like the garbage pick-up and the timing of it. Like the pre-planning.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, right, okay. So this brings a thought to mind. That I was very overconfident by the last time because I was like sure I would get away with it. Because the other times like they were like in the bin for like four or five days, and every day was just like man, like I hope no one finds it. I hope no one finds it.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So you kind of gain more experienced as you went through?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. (Inaudible).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Sorry, just on that note, while we're kind of this point, for any of the three, obviously smell would be an issue. Something that you think about. Did you ever cover the bodies before disposing of them? Like I know the first two you didn't dismember and you put them into the bin that you can wheel.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Did you cover them with anything? Like a --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Bags. Just plastic bags.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Like wrapped them up in plastic bags?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, lots of plastic bags because I mean if it's just one layer it would probably get through so I used many.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So what kind of plastic bags are we talking about?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, the first one was contractor bags. It was like a thick one. The second one was like nine garbage bags I got from Dollarama. The third one, about the same amount. Nine, yeah. And then the last one it was -- I barely had, you know, resources. So it was just like I was kind of like delegated to, you know, using one plastic bag for like one leg, for example.
DET. ALLAN: So -- good then?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (Nods head affirmative).
DET. ALLAN: So one of the questions I was kind of asking you earlier around the way was work. And I would say I was fishing for something.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: What do you think I was fishing for?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, if I was like a drug dealer or something like that.
DET. ALLAN: No.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No?
DET. ALLAN: Have you ever -- like a butcher or a hunter or something type of knowledge for the dismembering? Just based on --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, no. Like I had to like --
DET. ALLAN: How did you gain that knowledge?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Instinct.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I just -- I just had to kind of figure out on my own, and that's why the second time I was a lot more efficient 'cause like I didn't know exactly how to like you know --
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- like remove a leg, or whatever. It took a lot of finagling, I guess could you say.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. It sounds -- it sound -- it is what it is. I can imagine it's a fair bit of work.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Like a whole day's work.
DET. ALLAN: Whole day?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Like I was saying, like it took about 12 hours, like off and on.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Before we move on -- before we kind of go back and cover some things off here, have you ever killed anyone other than the four people you described?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's it.
DET. ALLAN: That's it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So you never travelled to any other countries or any parts of Canada and killed one?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Obviously we have -- we kind of talked about it, but I'm just going to bring it up again.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Uh-huh.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So we've got four Native females.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Uh-huh.
DET. ALLAN: So you've talked about motive and like they're racially targeted. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do you want to expand on that one more time just so I can kind of get my head into now knowing what's happened?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Part of my thought process -- like I mean, the first one it was just kind of like just the hatred and the disgust because like I felt like I never was able to connect with anyone, never mind just someone that's Native. But I just assumed it was, you know, because of race rather than ideological or you know, any kind of like personal reason. So I guess after that, when I started to consider it, I believed that -- I had questions before and I wasn't sure what my place was or purpose was. But I believe that God raises some people up for the sole purpose of destruction. And I believe now, like more conclusively, that that is why I was put here and this is the reason it was -- for them that was their time. Yes, it was my decision. It's not something that God willed or decided something. That I decided because I believe that doing this -- I mean it's -- you know, like obviously it causes death, but I think that extreme desperate measures need to be taken for the survival of my people. That I think that no one is going to do anything until people start doing stuff like this. Because, you know, if I don't -- if people don't start doing things like this, that you know -- for the Jews, which they've killed more than any other ethnic group, and to them it would just be like shooting fish in a barrel. And when I thought about all the different evidence that I had seen regarding Holonomir (ph) -- I don't know if that's pronounced right, but it was, to my knowledge, it was a systematic genocide of white people. They tried to exterminate the Germans, they tried to exterminate Slavs. Like for example, the Polish people, like in their words, they have no reason to exist because they're two stages behind. You know, they're not even at the level of capitalism at the time. So they just, you know, started wiping -- wiping them out.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And they used (inaudible) torture methods. The very basis of their ideology is the hatred of Christ. A lot of people know this, but you know like Jews used Zionism, Communism and Capitalism to cause more than two hundred million deaths since the 1800s. They used their influence in power to make up the Holocaust. I don't believe that happened based on a lot of evidence to the contrary. And yeah, it just -- it just became apparent to me that this is a situation that is either going to go the way of the globalists or people are going to start taking matters into their own hands. And I believed that even though my actions resulted in the death, and you know, destruction, I think that the potential is there if people see it for what it is and they start recognizing this. And it might not be today. Like it could be 20 years from now. It could be, you know, a hundred years from now and someone is like hey, you know like we're like five percent of the population now. Like we're on the verge of going extent. Maybe this guy, you know, had the right idea. But I mean, it sounds counter-intuitive, but yeah, like I believe that this was something that God called me to do, but I started to kind of rationalize more and realized that it wasn't God calling me directly to do that because God, you know, wouldn't ask me to kill anyone. That goes against God's very nature. So it was something that I decided to do because I thought it was -- was right.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you identify with like any particular like Aryan groups or anything to that effect?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm a member of Holy Europe.
DET. ALLAN: Holy Europe. I don't know what that is. Could you --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's not a proper organization. It's like an unofficial organization of parallel patriotic movements of European peoples. It's based on pre 1054 A.D. confession of faith Christianity. So like when Europe had one religion (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
(Det. Danylyshyn exits interview room at 07:14:38 a.m.)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: How long have you been a member?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like two years.
DET. ALLAN: What's like -- like we've talked about you're well informed with certain -- obviously the things you've talked about.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm. Sorry, can I... (Passes photo back). Yeah, I can like --
DET. ALLAN: What's the -- how do you obtain or how do you (inaudible). I'm just curious, like how do you obtain your information on, you know, these topics?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I find that I -- I call him my brother. Very people I would say that about here. But Damian Bravalovitch (ph) he's a Serbian with a royal bloodline that he can trace back to the Middle Ages person by person. And the only reason he isn't able to use his title is because of the Day of Defeat. You know, when Europe was lost to the globalists. You know, like people talk about victory. I don't celebrate that. I refer to it as the Day of Defeat, which is when Europe was lost. So that's why, you know, for instance like the Habsburgs (ph), you know in Austria or whatever, they're not able to use their royal titles because they lost that war and they no longer had the legal right.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So if he had the legal right to use his title, he would -- what, like he's -- I guess as far as, you know, propriety goes, like I consider him Serbian royalty.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I don't have much knowledge of Serbia so I'm not going to kind of venture down that. Obviously it's pretty graphic stuff here. You know, it's pretty horrific. This is going to sound weird, but I do thank you for sharing it with us. Obviously there's -- you know, Rebecca's family has knowledge as to what's happened to her, but we have three other families that don't know what's happened to a love one. So as much as this is shitty and dark and tough for different angles, or however people want to look at it, I do appreciate you sharing it and having, you know, the courage to just let that -- you know, those demons out to the public essentially.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
(Det. Danylyshyn re-enters interview room at 07:17:23 a.m.)
DET. ALLAN: I'm just curious, just in terms of like the escalation at this point. I have to use the bathroom quite badly here. You talked about, you know, being abused. Your cousin when you were five. Your mom. Some of those things that you endure. When did you start to notice (inaudible). Like you know, the classic things that you may -- that I've heard, you know, of like abusing animals. Again, just kind of like the token kind of sign that something's not right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And I was maybe like -- shit, man, I was very young. Like six or seven I remember killing a rabbit.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But I don't even think I really knew what I was doing, but now that I think about it, I think maybe I did, but it's hard to say. It's so so long ago.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, there was a point where I was like, oh fuck, that's bad. Like I feel more remorse killing a cat than a human being. Am I ever fucked up.
DET. ALLAN: You're pretty fucked up. Anyway.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Maybe that's because cats are more innocent than we are.
DET. ALLAN: It's open to interpretation.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I'm not going to weigh into that too much. So you mentioned a rabbit at six.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: A cat at how old?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, when I was like 20, 21.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Would there have been a gap there from kind of six to 20?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: I'm not trying to be facetious here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Sarcastic. I'm just --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But it is quite a gap. Like there was no such -- you know, other things like that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, so it's quite a gap.
DET. ALLAN: And then from 20 moving forward?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I guess when I was like -- yeah, I guess it was around the same period of time -- I think it was -- yeah, it was before I killed the cat I was kind of like cruel to cats before. But like it was like a couple of cases, and it's not like it's something I constantly did throughout my life. But I'm remembering specific (inaudible). Yeah, it would have been the rabbit to two cats. Yeah, the second cat I kind of hurt and then I killed it after. I injured it to the point that it wouldn't be able to recover so I kind of had to...
DET. ALLAN: Kill it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 'Cause like I was like hurting it and then it bit me, and then I kind of like raged out and like banged its head against the tub and it was fucked up after that. Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. From that 20 age on?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. And I thought that that was something that was just part of my past.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But obviously these things came up later in life.
DET. ALLAN: So is it safe -- is my understanding accurate that you're kind of doing okay with [wife's name withheld]. Like there's a period of time where obviously you're not with [wife's name withheld], and then when you're with [wife's name withheld] and everything is okay. And then it's when your relationship ends or when you take your protection order or break and that, is when things start to ramp up. (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: When I was with her, like I wasn't using, except -- yeah, there was some cases where like I would test whatever drugs she was going to inject to make sure that it wasn't like harmful. And when I would start --
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- then I had difficulty starting. It was kind of like minor relapses every time.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: After awhile I told her like I can't do that anymore because I'm jeopardizing my own health, and it wasn't just to get high. It was because I was actually concerned about, you know, her, you know, taking something that would kill her.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So when we're talking about these four -- these four women, when you say you're high, what drug are we talking about?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The first time it was like --
DET. ALLAN: You mentioned mushrooms.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I was like coming off of mushrooms.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Was there any other drugs involved in that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Shakes head negative).
DET. ALLAN: So coming off of mushrooms in the first one?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. And the others were all meth.
DET. ALLAN: All meth, okay. I'm going to -- this is going to sound rude. What is the first victim's name?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think it's [name withheld]. I don't know if it's --
DET. ALLAN: [name withheld]?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. [name withheld] I think.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. You know, like I said I've got to use the washroom really badly. Any questions there Adam before we take a bit of a break?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Just one quick thing. Are Greg and I the first people you've ever told this -- disclosed this to or has there been anybody else?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Specifically --
DET. ALLAN: Outside of lawyers, of course. That's a privileged conversation.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Didn't even tell this to my lawyer.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: I didn't mean that. Just more like -- is there some -- is there anybody you confided in outside of...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I hinted at it, but I didn't directly admit, yes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And I was actually talking to [wife's name withheld] up until recently. Yeah, like she knows I did something bad, but at that time when I last told her that I'd done something that could be up to three life sentences. Now it's like four. She doesn't know that. I was going to stop. I was going to try like recommitting and everything, but it just seemed like a situation where like you know, she wasn't being honest with me and like it was like -- like so much of our relationship. She'd say that she wanted to be with me and she seemed like she was all invested, but it was just like one foot in and one foot out. And it just seemed like she had, you know, kind of like taken a step back after I had told her all these things. And I just assumed that -- yeah, like. That is the embodiment of evil, you know. It was still selfish of me to be with her and to continue to be free of -- you know, not to bring these things up because, you know, that was something I considered to be a spiritual jeopardy for myself. I actually feel considerably better in telling you guys and, you know, having --
DET. ALLAN: Getting closure so...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. All right. I think we're going to -- we're going to step out. We've been in here for a long time.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Do you want to use the washroom? Do you want something to eat?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: A drink. Yeah, obviously (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Maybe some more Pizza Pops.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, we can do that?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Do you want Pizza Pops or another sandwich. Do you want to switch it up or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just Pizza Pops. Some more coffee. A little bit more sugar in it. This one was a little bitter.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, we'll just get you a fresh one. I might just grab a garbage can and come back and take it, okay. (Det. Danylyshyn exits interview room at 07:25:28 a.m.)
DET. ALLAN: Before -- like I'm just going to ask. You seem very calm when you talk. Obviously you put some heavy shit on us. I'm a little stressed out just hearing it. Are you going to hurt yourself or anything like that? Any thoughts of hurting yourself?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. We'll get you the washroom.
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): You can come this way.
DET. DANYLYSHYN (in hallway): Let me just grab a garbage can. Hang on.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. (Det. Danylyshyn re-enters interview room at 07:27:16 a.m.) (Det. Allan re-enters interview room at 07:27:19 a.m.)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah, and it's probably good to be aware that like right now I consider like any of the police or guards or whatever like neutral. But like people that I'm with in cells, like just be aware that if there's anyone that isn't white that's in my proximity, I will attempt to kill them.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Thank you for sharing that. Thanks. We'll make that known.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Do you mind just tossing some of this stuff in here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. 'Cause the only people I'm going to be safe around are my own.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. We'll make sure that that's the case. And just for our own staff, if you could see like a police officer or a guard that's a person of colour, are you going to -- are they at risk?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not unless there's -- like the only way that would happen is if the government collapsed.
DET. ALLAN: I guess in the next, say, 48 to 72 hours.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, not unless the government collapses and there's like total chaos.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Are you done with the Coke here?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it's all flat.
DET. ALLAN: So you'd like another coffee with some more sugar and some Pizza Pops? (Det. Danylyshyn exits interview room at 07:28:22 a.m.)
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes, please.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: Hey, Jeremy. Got your coffee and Pizza Pops.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do you want to sit up for it or I'll just put it down.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay. Thank you.
DET. ALLAN: Sorry for the delay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's fine.
DET. ALLAN: All right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Thank you.
DET. ALLAN: No worries. You need anything else while we're here?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. (Inaudible) music (inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No thank you.
DET. ALLAN: Jeremy.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: How are you doing?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: We're just going to come back in and then have a chat. Just kind of shore up some things. Before we go on, do you want to do washroom?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm. I'm okay.
DET. ALLAN: You're okay. Okay. Jeremy, get you back in the chair, please. (Det. Danylyshyn re-enters interview room at 11:00:57 a.m.)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Do you need that?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Do you want anything else to drink or to eat right now? I think we're probably done the bulk of what we need to discuss. Just kind of go through a couple of things here.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: That's okay?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. If you're getting groggy, you want some more coffee, food, just let us know please, okay. Fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So just kind of a picture what's been going on. Obviously we've been out of the room for a period of time. We've left the room. Done some computer checks. Talked with our boss. Obviously this is pretty substantial. Fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: From our computer checks we've done, we've kind of learned some things and we've, you know, identified some people. Fair. I just want to go through your notice of arrest again, okay, just 'cause we have -- we've got better information. We've kind of did this a couple of times, but just so we're all on the same page, okay?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: So right now you are under arrest for one, two, three, four, five. There's five different things here. And they occur between on or about March 15th, 2022 to May 17th, 2022. So we're not exactly sure on our days right now just 'cause you -- 'cause you used that COVID point of when the restrictions came off.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And our Google checks are saying March 15th. Does that sound about right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I guess so.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. That's kind of what we have to go off is your word so... So you're going -- right now you're under arrest for the murder of [name withheld]. That's WPS number R22-21826. Do you understand that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Say yes or no.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. The murder of Morgan Harris. Police number is R22-23037.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Both those numbers into -- in regards to missing persons.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: You're under arrest in regards to the murder of an unknown female.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Do you understand that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And also as we discussed the murder of Rebecca Contois. And that's for the incident number here today, which is C22 --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: -- 103187. Do you understand?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So also you have a court order and you're to reside at 714 Alloway. So there's a breach on that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, okay.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. So you understand that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So we've talked obviously -- we've been here for a while and you've had a chance to talk with counsel. Everything we discussed before, you still have those rights. So if you want to talk to a lawyer in private, we can facilitate that. If you want to talk to, you know, Legal Aid in private, we can facilitate that. Is that something that you'd like to do now?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, not right now.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. If you change your mind, again, just tell us. No big deal.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And again, we are still in a video recorded room.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And we take things down. Video, audio and kind of, obviously write some things down.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Fair. So we -- it's been a -- it's been a bit of a journey, right, for all three of us here today. We've learned some things. In the end (inaudible) investigation some pretty horrific shit, but I still thank you for you know, being honest with us. As much as this is just -- it's a bad day for -- it just sucks is just what it is. Hopefully, we can bring some closure to some families, okay. So there's a small thing there, and that's kind of what's fuelling us. Like Adam and I have been up for probably 32 hours right now. It's been a long day. But we'd like to clear up some details, okay. So kind of like a list of things I'd like to go through.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: From (inaudible) extent. Wherever you -- however you think this should flow, however you think like things that make sense, just feel free to run with it, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: They're not entirely structured questions.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So how did you know the names of some of the deceased. Obviously we talked about how -- like Rebecca, you kind of had like a bit of a relationship with her and it was kind of --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: It lasted a period of time. For other victims, how did you know their names?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Morgan I was familiar with -- with her. With her name. Just 'cause I've seen her around long enough.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The other one is like -- I'm not even sure if it's actually her, but it just seems like has to be her based on like what I saw on a Bear Clan poster. Like a missing picture of her.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It just seems like a striking resemblance. Like I say, there's a possibility I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Could you walk me back to where -- like where did you see the poster? When would you have seen it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, like it would just be on Facebook.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And I would have seen it like -- it's been up there for like a week or two.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And you use your Facebook account?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Where do you use your -- like your device or what do you use?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That was my computer at home.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you have a cell phone?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: When was the last time you had a cell phone?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Three, four weeks ago.
DET. ALLAN: What happened to that phone?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I got rid of it because there was an issue with the charger. Not the charger, but the ports where it charges. It just wouldn't charge properly.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Did you just like pawn it or pitch it or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sold it to someone. But I mean like that was, you know, kind of not a good thing for me to do because I know the phone was basically going to be bricked when it ran out of power.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you know who you sold that phone to?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: There might be records on Facebook, but I can't recall his name. I sold it through Facebook Marketplace.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And so about three weeks ago sold on Facebook Marketplace?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Do you know where you sold the person or what their name was, anything like that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Brother something or other. (Inaudible) something like predominantly black church. It was on -- what street? St. Mary's I think.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I can't remember exactly where.
DET. ALLAN: Did they come to you or did you go to them?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I went to them.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So at the church?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, just outside.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And St. Mary's. How far down?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Quite awhile down. I'm just trying to remember where. I know there's a 7-Eleven kind of not too far from there.
DET. ALLAN: Any landmarks or colour of building or anything?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, when I'm going down St. Mary's from downtown, I know it's on the left side and 7-Eleven is on the right side, but I don't --
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Is it before Fermor or after Fermor? Like there's like a Junior's around there maybe.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, I'm not sure.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Like how big was the building? Like was it like a substantial church or like a strip mall type thing?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it's like a -- like a one building church.
DET. ALLAN: Fair enough.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Moderate size.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So you mention Facebook Messenger.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: What account would you be using?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I used two. I had a different name on one at that time. I don't know if I used the Arch Count Anton Von Groening. G-r --
DET. ALLAN: Can you spell that, sorry.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Start from the beginning?
DET. ALLAN: Anton?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: A-n-t-o-n.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: T-o-n. Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, sorry at the beginning it was Arch Count Anton.
DET. ALLAN: Arch, A-r-c-h?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: A-r-c-h.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: C-o-u-n-t.
DET. ALLAN: C-o-u-n-t. Arch Count.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Anton.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That's like the full handle?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Basically yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And then you had another one you said.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh sorry, actually the full thing. Arch Count Anton Von Groening, G-r --
DET. ALLAN: V-o-n G-r --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: See -- where are you? I said G-r.
DET. ALLAN: So Arch Count Anton Von G-r.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. o-e-n-i-ng.
DET. ALLAN: Von Groening, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, with the two like dots over the "o".
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And the other one would have been Anthony Powell at the time, but -- yeah, I think that's the one that I used, but the name has since changed. Same thing as the other one except instead of Arch Count it was Hochmeister, H-o-c-h-m --
DET. ALLAN: H-o -- sorry, H-o-c-h-m?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. e-i-s-t-e-r.
DET. ALLAN: And then Anton Von Groening?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Did you message with any of our victims on this account? On either of these accounts?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And there's a reason for that. I mean, I guess it's probably important to disclose to you guys because I paid attention throughout like periods of my life how people had gotten away with murders.
DET. ALLAN: Perfect. Let's talk about that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I guess kind of where I got the idea was, I guess, it would be focused on Shawn Lamb. How they weren't able to find one of the victims because he basically disposed of her like trash in a garbage bin. And how one person was caught. I can't remember his name. But it was because the person had logged in through their social media and there was messages through the dating site, the Plenty of Fish.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I think it's Amanda Wood.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So like there's certain criteria such as like no video going in and out. No --
DET. ALLAN: That's like the settings that you have on your Facebook?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: My apartment if I was going to put someone there.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. That there is no phone or anything that they have. No one knows that they're with me. I think that's pretty much it.
DET. ALLAN: So just to reiterate. To cover off your liability or your tracks, no one would know that they're with you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: You make sure that they had no technology pieces on them. So no phones.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, and that they -- if I was to log into --
DET. ALLAN: Through social media, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- their social media through my computer.
DET. ALLAN: There was no just messaging around?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Did any of those girls log into your -- log into their accounts?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Shakes head negative).
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Did you know any of those -- any of our victims, any of their social media stuff? Like what would have Rebecca's social media been?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She -- like she had old ones. And oh yeah, she made an account --
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- on my Facebook some time ago, but that was like over like two, three months ago.
DET. ALLAN: Do you know what her account was, the one that she made up?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh yeah. It was just the same name.
DET. ALLAN: Like her legal name?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I'm just trying to (inaudible) because obviously they change. So if someone was -- if one of your victims had like a cell phone on them, how would you go about making sure that that liability was mitigated?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It was just they wouldn't be a target.
DET. ALLAN: Oh, you would just -- if they had a phone (inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Did you have or did you -- I'm not sure what the term is, but did you identify any potential victims and then have to stop because they had a cell phone or something to that effect?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Or yeah, that they logged in successfully. Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Oh, it's like somewhere you brought them. Where they might have been in your place.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And then they access social media.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So you just said not happening.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Could you provide me some background to any of those people? Any names or anything like that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: [name withheld]. I can't her last name.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Where did you meet [name withheld]?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I seen her around like Siloam or Disraeli. I can't remember which place I saw her first.
DET. ALLAN: But both?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Could you kind of describe what she looks like? How old is she?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, I'd say she's probably like Métis and I guess she's kind of like got like a thinner build. Maybe like 5'4", 5'5". Well, she's an escort.
DET. ALLAN: Would you have her phone number or know like a handle for her Facebook? Anything like that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I just remember her first name.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Roughly how old would she probably be?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Maybe like 30.
DET. ALLAN: 30, okay. Just skin tone, like fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Pretty fair.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So in this situation, where would [name withheld] fall in order?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That would have been four or five days ago. Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Four or five days ago. So then just before Rebecca?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: After I think. Wait. Wait, wait, wait. Was it after? I have a hard time remembering this, but it was really not that long ago.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do you remember where you met her before? Like did she come to your place? Like what was the last point or place where you --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Before she came with me, you're saying?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah. Like if you were out and about and you saw [name withheld], who is known to you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: I'm assuming you would have invited her back or something to that effect.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. That was -- oh yeah, she was on the bus.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And I was heading back from Ryan's place, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Where's Ryan?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: On Templeton. Like 740 Templeton.
DET. ALLAN: What bus would that be? Like the -- is that the 16, not the 18?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I took -- like I walked to the Garden City Mall. I took an 18.
DET. ALLAN: And you saw her on the actual bus you were on or did you see her at the bus stop?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: On the bus that I was on 'cause I transferred and took an 11. I think she was on the 11.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. What time of day?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It was late at night. Probably like 11:00, 12:00.
DET. ALLAN: That's tough, right. We don't know what day of the week it is. It's going to be -- just trying to track [name withheld] down and have a conversation with her. Anyone else beyond [name withheld]?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: When I was picked up, I just -- I mean, I didn't have any intention of hurting her. I can't remember her name. Just wanted to cuddle with her. And that sounds strange to some people.
DET. ALLAN: Well it's intimacy, right. Just --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I guess so.
DET. ALLAN: Who are we talking about here?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I can't remember her name. Fuck.
DET. ALLAN: When you say you didn't want to hurt her, is it someone you actually did hurt?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. This is someone I didn't want to hurt, nor did I hurt.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I just -- I can't remember her name. Oh, I did know at some point. She's told me. It's just my memory sucks.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Well, while we're on that, you mentioned a female named [name withheld].
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Who is [name withheld]?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, I've only seen her around Disraeli once. I've seen her around Siloam a couple of times.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. She's (inaudible)?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She is most definitely Native. Maybe Métis. She's got like a slighter -- I'd say slightly lighter skin tone than like [name withheld]'s. I mean, slightly darker. I mean, slightly darker.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She is maybe like 5'2", 5'3". Kind of like a stocker kind of build. She's not like fat. She's just a -- I guess the term is --
DET. ALLAN: Like heavyset?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: More like meso-endomorph if you know much about somatotypes.
DET. ALLAN: I've seen the pictures. I can't -- I don't even know.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She's like kind of like more naturally kind of like muscles than she is fat.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But she's got like a small layer of visceral fat. So like she looks like she could probably like --
DET. ALLAN: Take care of herself?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But she's just tiny. She couldn't take care of herself against me.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just I mean in general.
DET. ALLAN: So when did [name withheld] come over to your place?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That was already like over a month ago, maybe two months ago.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I can't remember.
DET. ALLAN: What happened when she's over?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, she -- she came over. I guess I was going to -- I don't know (inaudible). I just need to remember. Just a second.
DET. ALLAN: Take your time.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I can't remember exactly what was said or whatever, but -- having difficulty remembering, but I remember saying that I was going to give her like some like week or whatever, you know, as opposed to money because I think -- yeah, like she was -- she was asking for something in exchange for sex basically.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Any idea where you might have seen her before that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Before that? Yeah, just Siloam. Like I never talked to her before that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. You just kind of knew of her through whatever or so and so. That's [name withheld], type thing.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She told me her name when I first met her. So like I didn't know of her. I just seen her around.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. She comes back to your place. So there's an exchange then. Something like weed or something for sex?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not immediately 'cause like she wanted to go to the store or something like that. And then she decided like -- I hadn't given anything to her yet. Nothing had happened. And I convinced her to come back because I decided I wanted to kill her. I had filled up the tub or whatever, and I said okay. Like I left -- I left the weed like on top of the toilet for her to get. And when she turned around to exit, I just -- I kind of like lightly grabbed her. She just like froze, right. Didn't fight. And then I kind of like -- without using too much effort kind of like pulled her into the tub, but then she like -- she was just like, "Yo, yo, yo." Like instead of like fighting or freaking out, she just kind of like calmly appealed to me which, for whatever reason, it worked. And what did she just say? She said, "Okay. Chill out, yo." I said, "Okay. Like are we going to have sex then?" She said, "Yeah. Just let me -- let me get my boots off." She said. Yeah, we proceeded to have sex. And then I noticed after that, you know, her rosary. The cross on it, you know, when she was laying down. Like it wasn't like you know, on her chest. Like it was just kind of hanging off her neck and I was standing by my computer and I noticed it, and I was like "That's why you're not dead," I told her.
DET. ALLAN: And then she leaves afterwards?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Oh yeah, remember you were asking if I told people specifically about what I've done. I said I killed people. I didn't say when, I didn't say how, I didn't say where.
DET. ALLAN: Can you expand on that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. So I think I told [name withheld] that. I think I told -- oh, 'cause it was vague. Like I just said that I had killed people.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I said that to [name withheld].
DET. ALLAN: Is it something that you would do kind of -- obviously they would have a pretty clear idea afterwards, but -- in [name withheld]'s case. Not so much with [name withheld]. But it's something that you would do where you would disclose that to them to kind of, you know, initiate a reaction? To build tension essentially.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Something like that. But it was like -- I guess it was just like failed attempts at manipulation, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. If you were to put a timeline on when your, you know, interactions with [name withheld] are, where would she fall in kind of the timeline?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's too hazy. Too far back for me to remember.
DET. ALLAN: But is it goes (inaudible). [name withheld] was obviously kind of a --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Is very recent.
DET. ALLAN: [name withheld]'s very recent. And then we're kind of not sure; is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. With [name withheld] I can't remember.
DET. ALLAN: Would [name withheld] have been before [name withheld]?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. [name withheld] would be the first one.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: [name withheld] was -- let me think. I think that was only after one victim actually.
DET. ALLAN: So [name withheld] would have been essentially after [name withheld]?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Okay. Our third victim, the unknown female.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Something seems different with her just as we're kind of talking about it. You know, as we talked early.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Uh-huh.
DET. ALLAN: I guess, was there anything different?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I guess out of all of them, other than [name withheld] -- [name withheld] was pretty -- like even though she was just kind of like really like slow to respond, she was still very intelligent. This one seemed to be of pretty stable kind of like mentality, psychology. She's like you know, a degenerate in terms of her like lifestyle choices and whatever, but -- this is the one where I kind of like you know -- I guess there's some kind of like regrets, but ultimately that was her time to go so I mean I have to -- I have to make penance with God about that because, you know, a sin is sin. Like it's not good for whatever reason. It was just something that happened because I took the matter into my own hands.
DET. ALLAN: What would the regret be beyond albeit as you describe it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The meth use that day 'cause I like -- I'm sure I wouldn't have made that decision otherwise. But it was just like that was like a disaster waiting to happen because she was a meth user and she had some on her. I don't think I knew she had any on her or whatever, but like when she came back it became apparent.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So when I started to use then it was just that same train of thought. Started to fill up the bathtub, and that's not good.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. You described her by age.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, she said she was 20.
DET. ALLAN: Said she was 20. How old do you think she was?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Probably about that age, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. You mention that you have her bracelet.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think so. She had a couple of different things. But it was like a hoop bracelet. Something that's, you know, big enough to get around, you know, a wrist.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm. And solid. Would it open?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Solid, open like.
DET. ALLAN: I guess when I say solid, was it fixed or was it open? Like some bracelets might like cup and be open or some would be just like full. Like a ring would essentially.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think there was like both 'cause there's like a couple of different pieces of like -- I don't know if you call it jewellery, but bracelets or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. What are they made of?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Metal. Like it's like fake gold plated or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just like cheaper stuff.
DET. ALLAN: Where in your place would they be?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Fuck, scattered. I don't know.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And just to be -- just to help, I don't believe any of the other victims wore jewellery like that, nor any guests that I had.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So if there was women's jewellery, it would be hers?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: If it was like kind of like you know, big enough to fit around the wrist or the neck, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: If there's like a small ring, I believe that's Morgan's. It was just like a tiny little ring.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So what colour would Morgan's ring be?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's like almost like a brown. Like a brown tan.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. On what finger would her ring been on? Sometimes like they're bigger -- like a bigger girth for --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, it's such a small ring size, but I don't know.
DET. ALLAN: Is there like a stone or something in it? Any kind of --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It looks like it might be like a diamond. I don't know if it's like fake or not.
DET. ALLAN: Anything transcribed in it or anything like that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, it's solid.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's very, very thin.
DET. ALLAN: So our unknown female, I'm just going to talk about how she's described. 5'4". Said she's 20. Looks about 20.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Kind of one-twenty to one-forty pounds. Indigenous, dark skin, long hair.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'd say maybe like one forty, one fifty actually.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So I guess for the bracelet for it to go on, I guess just kind of average size. Nothing substantial.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So you had, I would describe it, as like a woman's watch on when we arrested you.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Whose watch is that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's Rebecca's.
DET. ALLAN: That's Rebecca's, okay. Is it something that she gave to you during the course of your relationship or something that --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I took it after I killed her.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Did you -- like I guess this is kind of transition. I haven't been in your apartment. I'll tell you, we've written warrants to go in there and we have gone into some extent. Not -- it hasn't been fully examined yet just 'cause it takes time, right. What did you do post -- like post killing. What would you to do keep your place, you know, clean and free of scent? I know we've talked about like use of Pine Sol and some detergent in the water.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Not much beyond that because it was like -- it wasn't really a concern about getting caught. Not -- in general it was like I felt like eventually I would be, but I'm not sure when.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Kind of thing.
DET. ALLAN: So there was -- like the scene that I would paint in my mind prior to discussion would be, you know, if something like this was to happen at a location --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: -- you would be going in with, you know, like some of the things we discussed about. Like you know, getting caught. You'd be in there with bleach and wiping things down and just --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: There's probably DNA everywhere in there.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And if we're talking about like kill locations essentially, we've got -- just confirming. So [name withheld], she's drowned in the tub.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: Morgan is drowned in the tub.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: The unknown female is strangled on the lone bed in like the living room?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: On the floor in the -- not in the living room, but in the bedroom.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Whereabouts on the floor? (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just kind of like in the middle of the floor. Almost close to the closet, I guess.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And when you -- when she's killed, just to kind of show, there's a bit of a (inaudible). You kind of showed us what happened. Could you just maybe give us like the hands and how that occurred?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. I guess it was like I was sitting at the edge of the bed. She was getting up.
DET. ALLAN: After having sex or just sitting?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, after -- well, she was like laying down 'cause I had kind of like gotten high and come back, and I was like prepared to just tell her like look, listen to me. This is how things are going to happen, type thing. But she just kind of like tried to like power out of it, and then like was like pushing my hands away. And then like because I was like kind of like on the bed, but she was like sitting up next to me like this (indicating).
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And like I was trying to get my arm around her like this (indicating). It didn't work and she started --
DET. ALLAN: Would you both be sitting kind of in the same direction?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And you're trying to go behind her (indicating).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And so she started to get up and then I kind of went around like that (indicating), and then you know, grabbed her on the throat. And it was like with pretty substantial force because I know that it's just like either going to be, you know, a loud scream or it's going to be a fight where I might not be able to, you know, pull it off quietly.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But yeah, she soon after kind of collapsed on the floor. And then when she collapsed then I got on top of her and just kept going until she was dead. But a couple of times I whispered into her ear. I said, "Pray to Jesus."
DET. ALLAN: When you are sitting and you kind of grab onto her on her throat, with the force you've got going on, does it cause her to fall off the bed and that's how you go to the floor? Or is it something where she's just like sitting and you're just like clamped onto her throat?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She was kind of like halfway up. By the time I had my hands on her throat, she was kind of like this (indicating).
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And then like before she could stand all the way up, like I was already kind of like bringing her down while she was like falling. I was like assisting her as she was coming down. And yeah, like I just kind of like brought her down and then I was on top of her.
DET. ALLAN: With Rebecca, where do you come into contact with her before the murder?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She threw rocks at my window.
DET. ALLAN: So she showed up there?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Was there any communication beforehand?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I saw her like the day before. But same thing, she was just showing up.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Throwing rocks at my window.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So she knocks at your door. She threw rocks at the window and then you let her in.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: She comes in. And then how long is she there before things get aggressive? Because with Rebecca, you guys have a bit more history.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Where these other girls it's very --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. She may have arrived like 11:00 or 12:00 or something. It was raining. She was like soaking wet. Let her in and I let her shower and sleep for awhile and then like -- oh yeah, that's the thing. The thing in all of these things and have in common is like around the time that they took place because I felt like if it was any later than what it was -- like it was like between 5:00 and 6:00. Something like that. There was daylight out, but it was before anyone was really awake. 'Cause I felt like if I hadn't taken the opportunity there it would have been too late basically.
DET. ALLAN: And what is it? The opportunity to do what?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: To kill her without anyone noticing.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So she kind of showers and she sleeps. And then what transpires next?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, yeah, I guess it was like -- I don't know. Like there's a couple of times where I like laid down and she just -- I don't know. Just kind of like you know, leave me alone type deal.
DET. ALLAN: Was it something where she was sleeping and you were trying to have sex with her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So in this situation, is it fair that she wasn't receptive to it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So what transpired next?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And then eventually I kind of like -- oh yeah, like I fill up the tub again because like I was just -- you know, like I was getting really high, and that was just my frame of mind. My focus. Obsession, I guess you could say. And then yeah, I decided to kind of like get on top of her and I was like trying to calm her down. Just like, "Just be still. Just don't move. Don't move." And she kept getting up and then like pushing my hands away. And then yeah, when that started to happen, I just, you know, was triggered. I tried to get my arm around her neck (indicating) and I couldn't -- couldn't do it. And out of all of them, this one, just because I had already killed three people before, there was no -- what's the word? No hesitation --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- in my attack and my grip. So I think even though that -- even though she like fought more than any of them, like it was just like her -- you know the --
DET. ALLAN: Personality?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. No, no. It was just her -- her like overall vitality strength. And it was not because she like fought me off, it was just because she took so long to die.
DET. ALLAN: Save to say she suffered a fair bit?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't know because the thing is like I -- I probably like crushed her throat or something like that, and she wasn't really fully like awake. I tried not to allow her to suffer, but yeah, it was kind of thought to be 'cause like she just -- she just wouldn't die. But oh yeah, I guess to clarify like because like it was -- she was still making noise or whatever when I was choking her out and I could obviously hear that, so I was choking her while I'm covering her with a pillow when she was still like gasping for air and breathing, even though like you know, her throat was, you know, broken. Whatever it was, yeah. My hands were, you know (indicating). And it just didn't seem that the combination of that was enough. And then I covered my -- her nose and mouth with my hand tightly, and within a couple of seconds she stopped breathing.
DET. ALLAN: What do you mean? Like you would have palmed her? Just like straight over her, kind of thing, or sideways?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, like sideways.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: So I guess technically that was her cause of death, now that I think about it.
DET. ALLAN: Sorry, it would be suffocation or..?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Or asphyxia, or whatever it is.
DET. ALLAN: Asphyxia, okay. Sorry, I'm not up on medical terms. So you obviously make contact with your bare hand on her face.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And then she goes into the tub.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I never brought her there because -- well, not until like I was dismembering her.
DET. ALLAN: So you -- obviously she laid -- or her corpse is there. And then how many times do you think you have sex with her -- her deceased body?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Seven or more.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And you're to dismembering. Where do you move her to in the -- like does she get relocated in your apartment?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Like when I was going to dismember her, I kind of brought her up to the bathtub. It was very difficult to even get her in there.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Is it full of water?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It was.
DET. ALLAN: Do you take any -- obviously she's obviously covered in water. Do you take any steps or any means to like remove DNA or any, you know, (inaudible) from her body or is it just dismembering and --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I was just covering the smell.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And that's -- you use detergent; is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So there's a black and blue jacket. Remember we showed you some surveillance footage.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: What do you do with that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I toss that.
DET. ALLAN: Where do you toss it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: In the garbage behind my place. It would have been taken already by the garbage disposal.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. What else would have been in that bin?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The gloves that I use, covered in blood.
DET. ALLAN: Can you describe what they --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: They're leather gloves that you would have seen on video.
DET. ALLAN: Leather gloves?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. It's tough to tell textures.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Anything else?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. A bunch of clothes that would have belonged to like either Morgan. There's clothes that belonged to the unknown victim and some from [name withheld].
DET. ALLAN: All in that same bin?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. When did you -- do you remember when you put those items in the garbage?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The same night that I put Rebecca in the garbage.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. You described using like a wheelie -- like City of Winnipeg garbage bin.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: To move her torso to a brown garbage bin with a chute.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Would you know which garbage bin you would have used?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. It's like right before the automotive shops on Henderson. So it's like the last bin before you reach that back lane.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I'll ask you -- I'll clarify that. What bin do you use to transport the torso?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh. One in my yard. It was a black one.
DET. ALLAN: Is it the same one where your clothes are or the clothes are put?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't know if it's the exact same one.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Could have been, but I'm not sure.
DET. ALLAN: We kind of talked about this already, but I'm going to ask again. Do you have any keepsakes for any of your victims?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The watch from Rebecca. The ring from Morgan. Other than that -- oh, the jewellery from the unknown victim. Nothing -- nothing from [name withheld] other than like clothes or whatever, but that was thrown out. Like no --
DET. ALLAN: No underwear? No strands of hair? No -- nothing like that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, I mean not intentionally.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, okay. Is there going to be -- I mentioned the search warrant for your place at 5 - 259 McKay. What, if any, evidence are we going to find there?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, you're probably going to find a lot of blood. And like in the bathroom, 'cause you have those things, the black lights or whatever, you can see it. Like the mattresses, like you're going to find some blood and urine. Carpets you're going to probably find blood and urine. Some of the clothes might find like urine and DNA. Other than like the jewellery and stuff like that, maybe like strands of hair. There's some hair in the sink I think that wasn't cleaned up. But I don't know whose that is. Like it could have simply just been a guest, or whatever. (Inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: Okay. You mentioned using like the hunting style knife.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: To cut up carpet.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Was there a specific reason why you were using that knife to cut up carpet?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Because the tool I was using was not efficient enough.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, like the tool I was using was not efficient enough. It was kind of like cutting the carpet slowly so I was like you know, I'm going to go get this knife and use that.
DET. ALLAN: So why were you cutting up carpet?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That was because I was helping in suite 6.
DET. ALLAN: So nothing to do with any of these murders?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Shakes head negative).
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I have -- anymore questions on that before we (inaudible).
DET. DANYLYSHYN: No.
DET. ALLAN: I've got a photo book with some pictures in it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: And this is just a kind of crazy dialogue and having a discussion. Make sure we're talking about certain people. I'd like to basically show you pictures, one at a time, and just ask you to tell me what you know about this person, if anything at all.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: Is that something you'd be willing to do?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Thank you. There's 20 pictures here. (Inaudible). You can sit beside there.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: (Inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She looks familiar. I'm not sure who she is though.
DET. ALLAN: Potential victim?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Definitely not.
DET. ALLAN: So that's number 1.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, number 1.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So number 2 now here. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, I don't know who that is.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Not a victim. Number 3. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's hard to say like because you know, a lot of these people like if you look at, you know, a photo or whatever that might be uploaded on the internet or whatever. You know, a missing persons photo. They look substantially different because of drug use or whatever.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 'Cause it's been a while since they've taken that. She doesn't look familiar, but at the same time it's just like I don't know what she would look like if she was like really like gaunt and skinny.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I would just say like she doesn't look familiar.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But at the same time, the one that I'm thinking of, like there is some similarities like in the facial structure.
DET. ALLAN: And which would be the similarities to?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She had -- she's got like a Roman nose. Like just a straight kind of nose.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Thinner kind of lips. High cheek bones. But she's -- (inaudible) she's like a little bit too --
DET. ALLAN: And of your victims which one would you think that she kind of might have some vague resemblance to?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: The unknown one. But it's -- yeah, I would say it's a vague resemblance. I don't know. It's not a strong resemblance.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I'm just going to keep moving.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Number 4. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, I don't think. That's Morgan.
DET. ALLAN: Number 5? (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: That's Morgan. Do you know a last name?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Morgan Harris.
DET. ALLAN: Right. And how do you know her last name?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I heard it once before. It rang a bell when I read it again on a missing persons photo. 'Cause like I would just kind of like habitually go and look. You know, just to see if any of them would pop up, right.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So I'm assuming you see the missing person's photo after you've killed her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: And a search. (Inaudible) not that long ago.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Number 6. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That might be the unknown one, but it's like -- again, like it -- it was because when I met her she was wearing fucking sunglasses and a hat. Like even in my mind, because I saw her for such a short period of time. I guess I was high. Like fuck. Like it's just like I said. Like I might have an easier time identifying her if I saw, you know, her teeth.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And you mentioned that -- like no braces. Kind of like bad teeth? Like what do you -- I don't want to put words in your mouth.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just kind of crooked teeth, I guess you could say.
DET. ALLAN: So if you were to describe like the upper -- the upper section and then the lower section separately, were they consistently just not really straight?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, consistently not really straight.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Cared for?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it looks like she brushed her teeth, but like just no -- you know, nothing keeping her teeth straight. Like you'd have one forward, one back, one forward, one back type thing.
DET. ALLAN: And you mentioned possibly a tattoo.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I think she had one on her shoulder, but I can't recall what it was.
DET. ALLAN: Do you remember what shoulder it was?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Her right.
DET. ALLAN: Right shoulder, okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But that -- like again, like I'm just -- you know, when I'm saying a vague similarity at best because it's just -- it's very kind of difficult. Like usually if I actually see the face, you know, it'll, you know, ring a bell, but she's just -- I don't know. Not familiar to me.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Number 7. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, I think I know who that is, but I've never met her. Like I've just seen her on Facebook.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Fair.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I hope she's okay. But yeah. I must seem weird as fuck to you guys, you know.
DET. ALLAN: That comment threw me off a little bit. I'm not going to lie.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So good?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Photo number 8. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. I don't know who that is.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible). Number 9. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think I might know who that is, but -- is it Gerry Linklater?
DET. ALLAN: I honestly -- I have no idea who any of these people are.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. That was a person --
DET. ALLAN: These pictures were just provided to me.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: And I haven't opened them up in here (inaudible). I have no clue (inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She looks strikingly similar, but at the same time like it could just be a strong similarity to someone. But I never -- like I wanted to hurt, but I never did.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So number 9.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Number 10. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't think so. Doesn't really look familiar.
DET. ALLAN: (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Looks familiar. Like I've seen her around, but I don't know who she is. I never hung out with her.
DET. ALLAN: That's number 11?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Number 12. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That looks pretty similar to [name withheld]. I don't know if that's her. 'Cause if you actually look at a picture -- the one that I was looking at, like you could see that they're very similar. I don't know if that's the same person or not, but she shares strong similarities. Strong resemblance to the first victim.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So that's number 12. So just kind of back -- so you mentioned that you saw a Bear Clan flyer. Like a posting on Facebook.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And that was for?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: There's one for [name withheld]. 'Cause that was -- like that was like an unknown victim, or whatever (inaudible), until I saw a picture and that's like who I assume it is just based on very strong similarities.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Could you -- is there anything about [name withheld] that sticks out in your mind? Like a mark, a tattoo, scar? Something that like pop in your mind's eye.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Just her facial structure.
DET. ALLAN: How tall is she?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Maybe like 5'4". Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Any piercings or anything that, you know, an intimate partner might know?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not that I can recall.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. For just trying to, obviously establish if it's something where you've seen it on Facebook and now you're drawn to that idea, or it's one and the same, right. And I don't want to -- you're very intelligent.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I'm not trying to, you know, question you. I'm just trying to make sure we're not misinterpreting what you're saying.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Just a very strong resemblance, but I can't be a 100 percent sure.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. 13. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Don't know who that is.
DET. ALLAN: 14. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Don't know who that is.
DET. ALLAN: 15. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No idea.
DET. ALLAN: 16. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't think so. Like she shares like some mild similarities. But yeah, like her nose is kind of too flat. Yeah, I don't think so.
DET. ALLAN: To?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Similarities to the unknown victim.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But it's not strong. Just you know (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: 17. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She looks familiar. Who is that? That one I don't know. She looks familiar. I don't think she was the victim. I don't know. I don't think so. I think I just seen her somewhere before.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And being the unknown female would be the one that you're referencing when you say you don't know?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Could be, yeah. Like it's just --
DET. ALLAN: Just making sure that we're not talking about for someone else or...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, like mild vague similarities, I guess.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But I don't think that's who it is. Like her -- 'cause I remember her facial structure kind of being like more like narrow. Like her face is kind of more like broad so I don't think it's (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: 18. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, that is -- that's Rebecca.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible) same picture.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Rebecca Contois?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. 19. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Looks familiar, but never hung out with her. Don't know who she is.
DET. ALLAN: And 20. (Displays photo).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No idea who that is.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So just a thought. Just, you know, a thought here. Would you be willing to sit down with like a sketch artist and describe what this -- what this unknown female looked like?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I guess so.
DET. ALLAN: You have a very good recollection of like facial features. The way you describe things, it kind of paints a picture for me. And I could -- you know, I can barely draw a fence. But I'm not sure that's something we can do. I just want to know if you'd be willing to do it. Just try to like give some closure to this family.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Like it's tragic, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: (Nods head affirmative).
DET. ALLAN: A lot of bad shit's happened here. If we can just try to undo some of that just a smidge.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't know about undo, but I hear you, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Some closure maybe.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Undo is probably the worst word I could use, but just a little bit of closure.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Thank you for correcting that. Anything right now, Adam?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: No.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. We're going to step out. We're going to talk to our bosses again.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: We'll probably have more questions. (Inaudible). This is pretty dynamic for us. Do you want anything to eat, drink, washroom?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Probably should have some sandwiches. Bologna seems to be the easiest for my stomach to digest. If you just have that.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you want chips, a chocolate bar, soda?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: What kind of chips do you have here?
DET. ALLAN: I think right now we have like Doritos and like some -- we don't got much selection now, but there's some like ripple chips or...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I guess just Doritos, coffee.
DET. ALLAN: Bologna sandwich.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Chocolate bar?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Sure.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. I know this is obviously a -- it's tough conversations, but thank you for your time.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: We'll keep working on this, okay. Use the washroom?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Now?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, come on Just moving the chairs out of the room.
(Det. Danylyshyn and accused exit interview room at 12:00:44)
(Det. Allan exits interview room at 12:01:02)
(Det. Allan and accused re-enter interview room at 12:01:48)
DET. ALLAN: So just now then just confirming (inaudible). So a bologna sandwich, chips, coffee and a chocolate bar?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: We are out of coffee right now.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's fine.
DET. ALLAN: I brought you a Coke. It's cold. A sandwich.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Snickers and some Doritos. All decent?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. All good. Anything else?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, that's good.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Hello.
DET. ALLAN: Hey, watch your head.
(Detective 2 exits interview room at 15:39:52)
(Detectives re-enter interview room at 15:40:00)
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Were you able to get some sleep?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Somewhat.
DET. ALLAN: So you've been with us for oh, probably 22 hours, 23 hours.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible) to justice for 24 hours.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: How has your -- how have we treated you?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Obviously we've been out of the room and did a lot of work. Kind of figure out what the heck is going on, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: It's a bit of a unique situation. I can't say that when I started today -- or yesterday, I thought we'd be here, but we are. A couple of things I want to kind of cover off right now. I'm going to show you a picture here. (Displays photo). Does that look familiar to you?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's -- like I remember a tattoo being on the place, but I don't remember if that was it specifically. It's -- yeah, sorry, it just --
DET. ALLAN: You know what? It is what it is. We're looking for the truth so...
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: If it looks familiar to you, it does. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't know. It's just -- yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Can't be certain.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. So you had -- a couple of other things here. So you had some -- three packs of (inaudible) marijuana were in your bag.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: So that can't go with you. So we can hold it for 30 days. So this is going to go in your property. So if you know anyone who wants to come pick it up, you can just call them and tell them to come get it.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. That will go with your property. A little bit of a development. I guess I'll kind of look through a couple of pages here. So first, [name withheld] has been located safely.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, so it's not the right person then.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, looks a lot like her then. Was it the same person that you showed me in the --
DET. ALLAN: You know, I don't even -- that pack of photos, I don't really know who was in there. Obviously I recognized Rebecca Contois.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: When she was 18. The other people that were in there was prepared by another officer who did some checks, and he put that together and just gave me the book. So I can't even speak to -- I know who's who, but I can't really speak to now your comment of what picture and what not so I'll have to go back and look at that. The video for that.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: So right now we have first degree murder charges authorized by Manitoba Justice, and that's for the murder of Rebecca Contois, okay. So you have a charge for that. You have a breach charge on your release order for not residing at 7 Alloway, okay. Do you understand that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. ALLAN: So in terms of the other three murders we've talked about, being Morgan Harris and now the two unknown females, you're just going to be released pending further investigation on those things. So we're going to do some work. We've got to get our ducks in a row before we move forward.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Mm-hmm.
DET. ALLAN: I'm just going to ask before we get you out of here, we've kind of stuck on the point of it being [name withheld].
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I assumed it was.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, I know. That's fair. Can you describe -- sorry. So the first female is going to be an unknown female.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Right now. Can you describe like in full detail what she looks like?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like I can really only kind of like remember specifics about like her face. Her facial features were so similar to that person that like -- it does a better job or could do a better of job of explaining how she looks than I can put into words.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She may have been on camera with me outside of Disraeli on the 15th.
DET. ALLAN: And that's the day that the COVID restrictions come off?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, or the day before.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She never went inside, but like we were just outside. And the trouble with this, like she was wearing like a mask of some kind.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Like a COVID mask or like a --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, like a type of COVID mask. Just a cloth mask. I can't remember exactly what was written on it.
DET. ALLAN: Did it have some writing on it though?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think so.
DET. ALLAN: Big or small?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Big, I guess.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And kind of would have filled up the whole mask?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Well, like a good portion of it.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do you remember what she was wearing?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, I guess now that I think about it, there was a Baby Phat sweater that I posted online. Facebook Marketplace.
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't think that ad is still active so you'd have to like kind of like really get a hold of Facebook themselves to see if you can --
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- pull up that information. What it looks like.
DET. ALLAN: So what does a Baby Phat have to do with those -- what you were wearing?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No, it's what she was wearing.
DET. ALLAN: Oh. So you sold her sweater?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: After you killed her?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, like a couple of months later.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Like is it a hoodie?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I kind of see like what the Baby Phat logo looks like. Kind of -- it's some kind of like aggressive looking script.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, almost.
DET. ALLAN: Maybe just Google quick if you can please.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But it is unique. Like I mean, if you just typed in Baby Phat for example. Like I tried to find --
DET. ALLAN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- what it was, and like there's nothing else that was quite like it --
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: -- online, so yeah.
DET. ALLAN: And what account would you have sold that from? Like one of the two you provided?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Is it like a cat logo? Is that it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I think there was one like that on it, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: I think that's something we'll have (inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, there was --
DET. ALLAN: P-h-a-t?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: But it had like the wording on it too.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, I can kind of... So you're there. And that's the 14th and the 15th. So do you have a sign-in sheet when you go to Disraeli?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Okay. Did you sign in with her when you went there by chance?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She didn't sign it. Like I saw her just outside the front so she never actually went in.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I don't know if I was signed in earlier. It's not really useful to you guys, but...
DET. ALLAN: It can all be useful. It's just a matter we've got to go out there and do our job, right.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: So how old do you think this female was?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: 20 or 22.
DET. ALLAN: 20, 22?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Something like that.
DET. ALLAN: Skin pigment?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Fairly dark.
DET. ALLAN: Fairly dark. How long is her hair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: She had kind of like shorter hair, I guess. Like nothing past her neck, I guess.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Glasses?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No.
DET. ALLAN: Hat?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. I think she may have been had -- she may have had her hood up. I don't really recall exactly.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And her complexion, is it --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, it's dark.
DET. ALLAN: Is it like clean skin?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: For the -- there's -- how can I describe it. Like I guess like she would have some kind of like dark patches on her skin.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Almost like spotting?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. That's quite (inaudible). Okay. Anything about footwear? Did you sell any of her other clothes?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: No. I don't recall whatever her shoes were.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. And again, no phone I guess, right?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Right.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. How do you guys get back there?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: By bus.
DET. ALLAN: Together?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Do you have like a bus card?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: A bus pass?
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I probably had one at the time. I never, you know, had one consistently. Sometimes there's a month where I wouldn't have one.
DET. ALLAN: So EI wouldn't give you one -- or EI wouldn't give you one. So you would just buy it?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Like I have to pay for it myself.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Who do you bank with?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: With Assiniboine Credit Union.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Do you have like a debit card that you use often?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Not for purchases. Oh, excuse me. I just usually take the money out and spend -- spend the cash.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. What ATM would you go to? Is there a credit union nearby?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. It's not an ACU, but like it was --
DET. ALLAN: Westoba maybe? It's irrelevant. Whereabouts would it be though?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: It's like -- where would it be? I'm trying to remember the name of that place. 'Cause I know like there's that block where there's like -- there's like Safeway, whatever. Then there's a street and then there's like a --
DET. ALLAN: The one with like Booster Justice and McDonald's, or is the one that's kind of --
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's the one. I'm talking about the block before that. Closer to Edison.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: There is -- yeah, there's like a credit union.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, I think I know the one you're talking about. Like there's an IGA parking lot or something like that?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: IGA?
DET. ALLAN: Does it have like a -- like a liquor store or something.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: There's one on the left side of Henderson.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah, the opposite side that Safeway's on.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah, right by Springfield I think. Is that the one? Sort of like across from the old Pizza Hut there. It's Leopold's now I think.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Leopold's, yeah.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Across from Leopold's.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Okay. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of all by itself there.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yes.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Oh yeah. Gotcha.
DET. ALLAN: We're tight on the time here. Anything else right now?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Not right now.
DET. ALLAN: So I'm going to send an e-mail to Kevin Sneesby and just request that when he comes that he comes to see you and that he brings a religious figure with him. Specifically what am I asking for? (Inaudible) refer to like an Archbishop? I think it's like an Archdiocese. I think that's like one of the head of the church for Winnipeg I think. So I don't know if that's going to be reasonable for him to organize. If there is some spiritual person that you'd like to have contact with, I have no problem sending the e-mail. I said I would do it. Just can you just give me some direction.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. Just someone that's eastern orthodox rather than (inaudible).
DET. ALLAN: Eastern orthodox?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Like ROCOR. Like Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia preferably, but any of them are valid.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Eastern orthodox?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. As opposed to Roman Catholic, yeah.
DET. ALLAN: Or -- and the acronym you gave?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: ROCOR. Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia.
DET. ALLAN: What church do you go to specifically?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I haven't been to one yet, but there is one on, I think, Alfred or something in the North End that I wanted to go to. I haven't been there so...
DET. ALLAN: (Inaudible).
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I'm not sure if I can remember, but like if you --
DET. ALLAN: Oh yeah. Maybe like McKenzie.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Mm-hmm. That's what I was thinking.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Yeah. If -- like if you're able to simply like Google ROCOR churches.
DET. ALLAN: We'll put some time into it. I think that Mr. Sneesby has court today so today obviously he's going to have to take time to go there. So we'll get something to him. Anything in closing before we get you out of here?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: I mean, I --
DET. ALLAN: Like would you like to say something to the families of the victims?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Oh, that's a tough one. I guess I pray to Jesus; nothing I could say as a human being can ever do justice.
DET. ALLAN: Okay.
JEREMY SKIBICKI: That's something that's going to have to come from God. That's all I can say.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Good?
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Yeah.
DET. ALLAN: We're going to get you out of here. I'm going to -- I don't know who's over there so there might be -- you made a comment where I don't to be around anyone of colour. I don't know who's over there. Just walk over there. So if there is someone, I'm just going to ask you to just restrain yourself, and I'll pass those messages on to them when we talk to them. Is that fair? Just follow us. Keep our hands to ourselves in the next five minutes. Is that fair?
JEREMY SKIBICKI: Okay.
DET. ALLAN: Okay. Let's do that, okay. You can leave the -- whatever you don't want, you can leave it.
DET. DANYLYSHYN: Bring your blanket though.
DET. ALLAN: Yeah, a hot commodity. (Detectives and accused exit interview room at 15:53:37)
(End of Interview)