What this is, and what it is not. This is a New York State Board of Parole interview, not a press interview and not a confession. David Berkowitz appeared before three commissioners at Shawangunk Correctional Facility on May 17, 2016 by video link, under his own name and departmental number, with a court reporter present. He was answering a state body holding power over his liberty. Nothing in it was given voluntarily to a journalist and nothing in it was edited for broadcast.
Rights. A parole hearing transcript produced by the New York State Department of Corrections and Community Supervision is a record of a state agency. There is no private rights holder and no publisher to credit. The reporting firm named on the certificate prepared the transcript as a contractor to the state.
Where the original is. New York State Board of Parole, interview of May 17, 2016, DIN 78 A 1976, twenty-three certified pages, taken at Shawangunk and video-conferenced to the department at Poughkeepsie. Commissioners Ludlow, Elovich and Thompson sat. The hearing reporter was Lori Ciofalo.
What has not been verified. The certified pages were read from a scan rather than from a copy obtained directly from the department. The words below are the transcript’s own; page furniture has been removed, meaning line numbers, the reporter’s footer and the running header, and nothing else. Spelling, punctuation and the transcript’s own inconsistencies in speaker labels are left as they are.
One thing to hold in mind while reading. This is a man who has every reason to present himself well to the people deciding whether he goes home, and who knows the transcript will be read. That is not a reason to discount what he says. It is a reason to notice what kind of document it is.
The board denied parole. All three commissioners concurred.
COMM. LUDLOW: Good morning, Sir
THE INMATE: Good morning.
COMM. LUDLOW: Sir, you are David Berkowitz?
THE INMATE: I can’t hear anything I’m sorry.
COMM. LUDLOW: You can hear us now?
THE INMATE Yes Sir. Yes, Sir. Good morning. Good morning.
COMM.LUDLOW: There is some noise in the background. What is that?
ORC Kober: It’s the fan for the computer, Sir, for the system.
COMM LUDLOW: You can’t tone that down?
ORC KOBER: It’s part of the TV system.
COMM. LUDLOW: We don’t have it on this end I’ve never heard that anywhere in the State. There must be something wrong with that equipment. Mr. Berkowitz, can you hear me OK?
THE INMATE: Yes I can, Sir.
COMM. LUDLOW: Sir, you are David Berkowitz, correct?
THE INMATE: Yes, Sir.
COMM LUDLOW: Mr. Berkowitz, I am
Commissioner Ludlow, with me Commissioner Elovich,
Commissioner Thompson. Schmiester & Meister, Inc. (845) 452 1988
COMM. ELOVICH: Good morning.
COMM. THOMPSON: Good morning.
THE INMATE: Good morning. INTERVIEW BY COMMISSIONER LUDLOW:
Q. Mr. Berkowitz, this appears to be your fifteenth appearance before the Board of Parole; is that correct, Sir?
A. I believe it’s my eighth. Eight, I think, Sir. Eighth? It looks like fifteen to me. You did have some refusals interspersed, but in terms of actual, physical, appearances before the Board of Parole, this appears to be number fifteen.
A. Okay, then you might be correct, sir. In that case, yes.
Q. Is that correct or not? You should know. I believe so. I kinda lost count, to be honest with you. Okay, that is what it appears to be to me. You are sixty- two- years old is that correct, now?
A. Yes, that’s correct.
Q. Can you hear me okay?
A. Yes I can.
Q. Okay, thank you. You were convicted out of, it appears to be, all of the boroughs of the City of New York, except Staten Island; is that correct?
A. Yes, Staten Island and Manhattan. Nothing happened there.
Q. So you were convicted out of three boroughs: is that right?
A. Yes, Sir, yes.
Q. Okay. And you were convicted of approximately, well, it appears to be twenty-one various convictions, involving Murder, Second, Attempted Murder Second, Assault First, Criminal Possession of a Weapon, and there are other similar convictions here, some of which have multiple counts. The controlling sentence is twenty-five to life; is that correct, Sir?
A. Yes, Commissioner, Yes.
Q. You’ve been in a long time, Mr. Berkowitz. We certainly recognize that. We are cognizant of that point. It appears as though you have been in close to thirty-seven years, in State prison; is that correct?
A. I believe it is closer to thirty-nine, all together. I was arrested in 1977, and I came upstate in 1978. Say about maybe thirty-nine years, or close to it, if I’m correct.
Q. These convictions appear to be your only felonies of record; is that correct?
A. Yes, that’s correct.
Q. Otherwise stated, do you have any prior felony convictions?
A. No, no.
Q. Do you have any convictions out of State, sir?
A. No, sir.
Q. Okay. Now, we do have sentencing Minutes on file, Queen’s County, State Supreme Court, June 12th 1978, before Judge Tsoucalas. You at the time, were represented by Mr. Leon Stern and Ira Jultak; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. The minutes are on file and are a part of the record. We have the COMPAS Risk Assessment on file. The COMPAS Risk Assessment is a tool that we use to assist Us in complying with Executive Law 259 C4, which requires the Board of Parole to conduct a risk and needs assessment, as a measure of your rehabilitation for re-entry into the community. In your case the computer assessment has you at a low risk of felony violence, a low risk of arrest, and a low risk of absconding taking off from parole. If on parole, would you anticipate presenting as Schmieder & Meister, Ink. (845) 457 1988 David Berkowitz DID 78 A 1976 NYSID a low risk to the public safety, as suggested by this computer analysis, or something else? What are your thoughts, sir?
A. I feel I am no risk, whatsoever. My criminal past was a terrible tragedy. By the grace of God, I want to have that behind me now. I really didn’t come here to seek parole. More than anything, I came here just to talk with you. I have some things in my heart to share. But I understand this is a parole hearing and you have your formalities, and that’s fine.
Q. This is indeed a parole interview. As such, the Board of Parole is required, by Executive Law, to consider various factors, and we certainly want to comply fully with the Executive Law, which governs the operation of the Board of Parole. Do you understand that, sir?
A. Oh, of course, absolutely.
Q. Now, in that regard, we have a Case Plan on file. The Case Plan is a statement of goals, tasks and activities. Among the goals identified in the Case Plan: Improve problem-solving skills, spend more time volunteering. These are the goals identified in the Case Plan. David Berkowitz BIN 78 A 1976 NYSID Have you made progress with regards to either or Both of these goals, sir?
A. Yes, I have, sure.
Q. What have you done in that regard?
A. Well, I continue to go forward with my life I do a lot of good things. When I was in Sullivan Correctional Facility I was there for more than twenty-eight years. Twenty-eight plus years. And I was a caregiver. I worked with mental health inmates. I worked with sight-impaired inmates. I was a chapel clerk and I helped run chapel services. I would oversee chapel services, and I would do Bible studies. I was constantly putting myself out there to help individuals, with kindness and compassion. I mean, I feel that’s my life’s calling, all these years. My evaluations, and so forth, should show that to be true. I’ve done a lot of good and positive things and I thank God for that.
Q. That’s certainly to your credit. We will take that into consideration. With regard to the instant offenses, the record indicates that you caused the deaths of six individuals, in the various boroughs we discussed. You also wounded, Schneider & Meister, Inc., (845) 452, 1988 in a serious way, several other victims. You have what appears to be a grand total of thirteen victims, here, six of whom you killed; is that all correct?
A. Yes, yes, that is correct. Unfortunately, it was a terrible tragedy. I regret that with all my heart. I would do anything if I could ever change that. But that’s part of the past, and there is nothing I could do but grieve. I have a lot of pain in my life over all that happened.
Q. There is commentary in the file to the effect that you virtually paralyzed the City of New York from July 29th, 1976 through July 31st, 1977. What do you have to say about that comment, any response?
A. I am deeply sorry for all that has happened I I believe I was not in my right mind at the time. I take full responsibility, and I just regret it. It was a time that my life was out of control. I’d do anything if I could go back and change that, but it’s impossible to go back into the past and fix those kinds of things.
Q. There is an indication on the file, Mr. Berkowitz, that you told the staff, something to the Shmieder & Meister, Inc. (845) 452 1988 Davis Berkowitz DIN 78 A 1976 NYSID effect, and I quote, “The hearing process, meaning the parole hearing process, is painful, and that you believe parole is not realistic, and you are reportedly content to do the best that you can in prison” end quote.
A. Yes.
Q. Did you make that statement or something similar?
A. Yes. Yes.
Q. Would you care to elaborate on that, Sir? Specifically, the statement that, quote, “parole is not realistic”. Did you make that statement, and would you care to elaborate on that specifically?
A. Well, I feel that the crimes were so serious and the damage so severe, and so many people I’m sure are still hurting and grieving, that realistically, something like parole, in my situation, would be very unusual. I wish things were different, but I’m just being realistic. Reality, sometimes, can be painful, but I have to deal with what it is. You know?
Q. We understand, and we appreciate your perspective in that regard. With respect to discipline, the file indicates that you have had no disciplinary issues since November of 2004; is that correct, sir?
A. I believe so, yes.
Q. In the event you are paroled, do you have any plan on where to live, sir? Do you have any release plan or concept of where you might reside?
A. Not at this time, no. Not at this time.
Q. So it would appear that if you were released you would need a shelter of some kind. Is that your understanding?
A. Well, I’d probably need someplace to live. If that were ever the case, I have a few very good friends, and people who are ministers, outstanding members of society, who would take me in and afford me a place to live. I’m just saying, if that were ever the case, I have many things to fall back on, if that were a reality.
Q. I understand. Thank you. In terms of work. If on parole, you have identified working in ministry, involving counseling of youth. We also note that you have reportedly achieved an Associate Degree in Business Administration. Is that accurate, sir?
A. Yes that is, yes.
Q. From what institution and when was that? Schnieder & Miester Inc. (845) 452 1988
A. I graduated Sullivan Community College, with a two-year degree in Business Administration, and I graduated with two honors.
Q. That’s indeed to your credit, and we will consider that as such. (redacted) (redacted) That indicates that you are, currently, (redacted) is that accurate?
A. Yes, sir, that’s accurate.
Q. The file further indicates that in April of 1993 you were classified (redacted) (redacted) We do have a (redacted) on file. You were reportedly seen as recently as February 8th, 2016 by the (redacted). That report indicates that you are not (redacted) (redacted) is that correct?
A. Yes, sir, that’s correct.
Q. The report further indicates that you are not, currently participating in any (redacted) (redacted). Is that correct, as well?
A. Yes, that’s correct.
Q. In terms of a diagnosis, the reports states, and I quote, “None”. Are you sure of that?
A. I am aware of it, now. I didn’t see the report, until you just revealed that.
Q. In terms of recommended treatment, and I quote, from the report, “there are no recommendations from a (redacted) standpoint, at present” end quote. Are you aware of that?
A. Well. I am, now, that you read that to me, and I thank God for that.
Q. This is a report of social worker Osmen Yildiz, Social Worker 2 Is this report accurate and current in terms of the sections that I’ve read, in your opinion?
A. Yes, yes.
Q. Now, in terms of programs, the file indicates that over your period of incarceration, which you identified as thirty-nine years, you have completed all mandatory programs, you’ve completed in the college Program, as specified a moment ago; is that correct, sir?
A. Yes, sir, that’s correct.
Q. In terms of programming, is there anything, in particular, that you wish to cite for the panel’s particular attention?
A. Well, as I said, for many years I have worked as David Berkowitz DIN 78 A 1876 NYSID I guess you could say, just like a caregiver. I have a heart for helping and reaching out to inmates, offenders, who have psychiatric problems, who have a lot of depression, and things like that. For more than twenty years, when I was at Sullivan, I worked with the inmates who were in the mental health block, the Intermediate Care Program. The staff there really liked me, and they trusted me. Even though I lived in general population, all my time at Sullivan, I mingled freely with these men. The staff asked me to talk to certain men, who seemed depressed, who were going through different things. So I feel that’s my calling in life. Also for a number of years, I worked as a mobility guide for the sight impaired. I also worked as a chapel clerk, and that also entailed ministering to the men. Sometimes it was leading the worship services, opening the worship services in prayer. Sometimes, even preaching the message when the guests don’t show. The chaplaincy staff, as well as the officers in the chapel, trusted me, completely, to be around the volunteers. The men and women would come in, and I would sit with them and work with them. So I really just count my blessings. I’ve Schnieder & Meister, Inc (845) 452 1988 really done wonderful. Considering all the things in my situation, I did excellent at Sullivan, and I was thankful for those opportunities.
Q. That service is much to your credit. We will consider that as such in our deliberations. The panel does note official opposition to your release on file. The panel also notes consistent
community opposition to your release, as well, which will also be considered among the myriad of factors that the Executive Law requires us to examine.
A. Sure.
COMM. LUDLOW: Commissioner Elovich?
COMM. ELOVICH: Just a couple of questions. BY COMMISSIONER ELOVICH:
Q. Why were you transferred from Sullivan to Shawangunk, if you know?
A. I don’t know. I can only speculate that it was because of the new way of doing things, after the two inmates escaped from Clinton. I did very well in Sullivan. On April 12th of this year, the officer told me, “Hey, we got a call from Draft Processing, that you have to pack up, that you are the transfer.” It was a shock to everybody; including the officer, in the cell block, where I lived for many years, Schmeider & Meister Inc. (845) 452 1088 he knew me. That was it. They just put me, on a transfer, in a van, and sent me to Shawangunk. I don’t know. It was just instant. I did very well at Sullivan.
Q. One more question. When Commissioner Ludlow had questioned you about the instant offense, you said you were not in your right state of mind. To what do you attribute the execution of six innocent people and the shooting of another seven innocent people” Where did that rage come from?
A. Ma’am, I’ll be frank. I just---I can’t even explain that. I can’t put that into words. It’s beyond my comprehension. I look back with—like—so much disbelief. There there are times that I wake up and say I can’t believe this happened. I just don’t understand it. It’s something painful that happened that I have to deal with. It happened. I can’t put everything into a couple of sentences. I don’t know. I don’t know. I’m sorry. I’m sorry.
COMM. LUDLOW: Commissioner Thompson?
COMM. THOMPSON: No further questions. Thank you. Schneider & Meister INC. (845) 453 1988
COMM. LUDLOW: Commissioner Elovich, anything additional?
COMM. ELOVICH: Nothing additional. Thank you. CONTINUED BY COMMISSIONER LUDLOW:
Q. Mr. Berkowitz, anything additional, that’s important to you, sir, that you wish to apprise the panel, before we close the interview, sir?
A. I do have something that I wrote. It’s a two-page letter that I prepared. I even typed it up last night. Would it be possible for me to just read this to you, for your own information?
Q. Yes, we will let you read that, sir. If you wish to submit the actual letter, in its entirety, I would ask you to have our good staff at Shawangunk, fax that over to us, and we will incorporate It into the record here. Go ahead.
A. Yes, I would like that very much. Thank you. This is a letter to the Parole Board. I composed this last night, in my cell, and then with my typewriter. I just put it together.
Q. We do have a certified stenographic reporter in the room with us. This is a verbatim record. I would ask you to read at the proper speed so that the record David Berkowitz 78 A 1976 NYSID can be made clear. Thank you.
A. Thank you. Okay. I will. I’ll try. The letter to the Parole Board: “Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to present this letter to you and to speak on this matter. Since my arrival at Sullivan Correctional Facility, some twenty-eight plus years ago, I do believe that in the course of time, I have been able to be a help to both the facility’s staff, and the inmates. For example, I was trained as an 'Inmate Program Aide' (IPA), and performed as something of a peer counselor. for those who were housed in the E-North’s 'Intermediate Care Program' (ICP) for various mental health and psychiatric reasons; I lived in the prison’s general population, but worked in the 64-man ICP Unit on weekdays where I cared for these men. In addition, I have spent time working as a 'sighted guide' escorting and assisting those of the Sensorian Disabled Unit where those that are legally blind needed daily help. I also worked as the chaplain’s assistant and as the chapel clerk for many years. My responsibilities included everything from doing all kinds of paperwork, setting things up for the services, and helping to coordinate those services when I was asked to do so. I was also present to welcome and David Berkowitz DIN 78 A 1276 NYSID accompany all of the civilian ministerial volunteers, and to even sit alongside them when necessary. The chaplaincy and correctional staff having no qualms allowing me to help watch over the men and women, who regularly visited our chapel as guests. In all the years I was housed at Sullivan there was never a serious problem with the volunteers. Clearly the staff never viewed me as a risk or a threat, nor as a potential security problem. Had they done so, obviously, I would never have been permitted to function In such a capacity. I believe that throughout the years I’ve spent at Sullivan Correctional Facility, I was able with God’s help, to do many good and beneficial things, both for my fellow offenders, and for the staff as well. As a Christian and caregiver, I have counseled and prayed with countless men, some who have lost a loved one or were despairing over the news of a very sick family member. While others were despondent at having lost contact with someone whom they were once very close to. I made sure I was available to help anyone who requested prayer or advice. I tried to be there for those who were depressed. While in my free time I would write letters and messages with spiritual themes, which, I believe, have provided Shmieder & Meister Inc. (845) 452 1988 hope and inspiration from all walks of life. I have written extensively on such subjects as forgiveness, redemption, and persevering under difficult circumstances, as well as on the need to discourage gun violence. Not that any of this means anything overall. But I hope it does show the members of the parole board that I have devoted my life to doing good. That the staff at Sullivan considered me to be trustworthy, dependable, and respectful. For this I am most thankful. I especially thank God for changing my life and making all this possible. I likewise hope to continue to do good in the future, even if I have to take my last dying breath behind prison walls. I want to continue to be something of a role model for my fellow inmates, as well as a source of hope and inspiration to whomever I can. Thank you! Respectfully, David Berkowitz, Dated May 17th, 2016.” Thank you for allowing me to share this, sir. I appreciate that.
Q. You’re welcome, sir. Thank you for making that statement. We certainly hope that you are sincere with respect to the entirety of that statement
A. Okay, thank you.
Q. Mr. Berkowitz, we have attempted to give you a Schmieder & Meitzer Inc. (845) 452 1998 full, fair, and accurate interview today. In your opinion, sir, have you received that?
A. Yes, I have. Thank you.
COMM. LUDLOW: We will close the interview. we will advise you in writing in due course Hopefully, we will strive to bring all of our consideration to the forefront, to fully comply with the Executive Law that is imposed on the Board of Parole Thank you, sir.
THE INMATE: Sure. Okay. I’ll furnish a copy of the letter to you, just for general filing or whatever. I wish all of you a good day.
COMM. LUDLOW: We will incorporate that in the actual record. Thank you, sir. INMATE: Okay, thank you. (Interview concluded.) Schmieder & Meister Inc ((845) 452 1988 (After due deliberation by the Parole Board Panel, the following decision was rendered:) DECISION David Berkowitz, parole is denied. Hold 24 months Next appearance, May 2018. Following careful review and deliberation of your record and interview, the Panel concludes that discretionary release is not presently warranted due to concern for the public safety and welfare. The following factors are properly weighed and considered; your instant offenses in the City of New York, from July 1976 to July 1977, involved you causing the death of six victims and wounding seven other individuals. Your criminal history indicates the instant offenses to be your only felony of record. Your institutional programming indicates progress and achievement, which is noted to your credit. Your disciplinary record appears clean, since your prior appearance. You virtually paralyzed the city of New York for for one year, from July 1974 to July 1977. The panel notes current official opposition to your release. The panel also notes consistent community opposition to your release. Required statutory factors have been considered; including your risk to the community, rehabilitation efforts, and a needs for successful community re-entry. Your discretionary release, at this time, would thus not be compatible with the welfare of society at large, and would tend to deprecate the seriousness of the Instant Offenses, and undermine respect for the law. (All commissioners concur) CERTIFICATION I, Lori Ciofalo, Court Reporter and Notary Public, in and for the State of New York, do hereby certify that I attended the foregoing proceedings, took stenographic Notes of the same, and that the forgoing, consisting of 23 pages, is a true and correct copy of the same, and Whole thereof. ============================================================ END OF RECORD ============================================================