"It's Halloween now," a voice in the room remarks in the first minutes of this recording, while a detective sorts out coffee and a menthol cigarette for Anthony Sowell. It was October 31, 2009. Two days earlier, Cleveland officers carrying a warrant for his arrest on a rape complaint had gone into his house at 12205 Imperial Avenue in the Mount Pleasant neighborhood and found the bodies of two women. He was arrested on October 31 and brought to the Justice Center downtown, where the sex crimes detectives who had come to ask him about one woman's accusation found themselves asking about the dead.
Eleven women were eventually recovered from the house and the yard behind it, one of them only as a skull in a bucket in the basement: Crystal Dozier, Tishana Culver, Leshanda Long, Michelle Mason, Tonia Carmichael, Nancy Cobbs, Amelda Hunter, Telacia Fortson, Janice Webb, Kim Yvette Smith and Diane Turner. They were Black women from the east side of the city, most of them struggling with addiction, and several had never been reported missing. For two years the neighbors had blamed the smell on the sausage factory next door, which spent $20,000 on new plumbing trying to get rid of it. In December 2008 a woman bleeding from the neck and hand had flagged down police outside the house; Sowell was arrested and let go two days later without charge, and five of the eleven disappeared after that.
Jurors watched this video over two days in July 2011, near the close of the prosecution's case. On July 22 he was convicted of eleven counts of aggravated murder among dozens of others, and in August he was sentenced to death. He died of a terminal illness at Franklin Medical Center in Columbus on February 8, 2021, before the sentence was carried out. What follows is the transcript a Cuyahoga County court reporter made from the video in August 2010, entered in the case as the defense's Exhibit A.
These 134 pages are the part of the recording the court reporter labeled Sowell Part I, and they end with Detective Griffin and Detective Smith still in the room and a closing line saying only that the part was concluded. Several remarks that reporters quoted from the video at trial, among them his statement that "it had to be me" and his account of a voice warning him away from the third-floor room, are not in these pages, so the questioning ran on beyond them in a part we do not have. The first stretch belongs to the sex crimes unit, Detectives Baumiller and Durst and Sergeant Rini, who read him his rights and question him about the September complaint before they tell him what was found upstairs.
Nobody in this room yet knows who the dead women are. The bodies had been found only two days before and were not identified until later, so none of the eleven is named by the detectives or by him, and the woman whose complaint produced the warrant is referred to but never named either. What he says here is the account of a man in custody on a rape charge who is being told, a piece at a time, what the police have found in his house. It was played to the jury as evidence and weighed against the physical evidence and the testimony of women who survived him; it is a record of what was said, and the verdict is the finding.
The interview is a record of the Cleveland Division of Police and a public record under the Ohio Public Records Act, and the transcript is part of the file in State of Ohio v. Anthony Sowell, No. 530885, in the Cuyahoga County Court of Common Pleas. There is no private rights holder, and anyone may reproduce it. Our copy is a scan that has circulated online; the clean route is a public records request to the Division of Police at the Justice Center, 1300 Ontario Street, Cleveland, for both the transcript and the video of the custodial interview of October 31 to November 1, 2009.
The scan had no text layer, so every word here was read by optical character recognition from page images at 150 dots to the inch, and it has not been proofread against those images. We have corrected nothing in the questions and answers, which is why "De you want me", "third £loor" and "Iam" stand, and why a capital I sometimes prints as the numeral 1. What we did change is presentation. The court reporter's line numbers and page numbers are gone, including the many the scanner misread as letters, and a few of those fragments may survive inside a sentence. Speaker names the scanner misspelled, such as MR. SOWBLL and SRGT. RINT, are printed correctly, because a name label is layout and not testimony. On the title page, where the scan read "om October 31" and "-ve", we print on and vs. The 126 "(Inaudible)" marks are the reporter's. Sowell speaks 614 times.
THE STATE OF OHIO, COUNTY OF CUYAHOGA. SS: DICK AMBROSE, J.
IN THE COURT OF COMMON PLEAS, CRIMINAL DIVISION
THE STATE OF OHIO, Plaintiff, vs. ANTHONY SOWELL, Defendant. Case No. 530885
TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW OF ANTHONY SOWELL. DEFENDANT'S EXHIBIT A, SOWELL PART I
Whereupon the following proceedings were had in The Cleveland Police Department, Cleveland, Ohio, on October 31, 2009, and were transcribed from the video on August 13, 2010.
APPEARANCES: Detective Micheal Baumiller, Detective Richard Durst, Sergeant Joseph Rini, Detective Melvin Smith, Detective Lemmy Griffin. Bruce J. Bishilany, RDR/CRR, official Court Reporter, Cuyahoga County, Ohio.
PROCEEDINGS
DET. BAUMILLER: Anthony, do you want to sit in the gray chair, we gonna just put a cuff on you.
SRGT. RINI: Are you right handed or left handed?
MR. SOWELL: Right.
DET. BAUMILLER: De you want me to put that over there for you? Do you want me to take that for you? Anthony, you're a smoker?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. BAUMILLER: Do you want some coffee and a cigarette?
MR. SOWELL: Yes,
DET. BAUMILLER: I got menthols, they are Newport, are you okay with that?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. BAUMILLER: All right. How do you take your coffee?
MR. SOWELL: It don't matter. Black. Cream and sugar.
DET. BAUMILLER: I'll grab an ashtray. (Inaudible)
A VOICE: We'll sleep good tonight now, (Inaudible) It's Halloween now. (Inaudible) .
DET. BAUMILLER: They gave me some coffee. All right. Got it. All right then. Hey, guys, can we have the room clear just for a couple of minutes?
A VOICE: Clear them out of here.
DET. BAUMILLER: Just for a second. We are getting him some coffee. We'll get you back in. Anthony, we are getting you some coffee. You wanted a smoke, too. Are you whipped, tired?
MR. SOWELL: No, sir.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh, you're good? These are supposedly from the same company that makes Newports.
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible).
DET. BAUMILLER: Mavericks, yeah, they're cheaper.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, yeah.
DET. BAUMILLER: We already advised you of your rights. I'm going to do it again just for the heck of it, okay? You have the right to remain silent Anthony, all right?
MR. SOWELL: Okay.
DET. BAUMILLER: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a Court, do you understand that right, Tony?
MR. SOWELL: Um-bmm.
DET. DURST: You have the right te counsel -- to consult a lawyer before answering any questions and have a lawyer with you during any questions; do you understand that?
MR. SOWELL: Um-hmm.
DET. BAUMILLER: TE you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided to you.
SRGT. RINI: (inaudible) coffee. Here you go. It's really hot.
MR. SOWELL: Okay.
SRGT. RINI: Be careful.
DET. BAUMILLER: So you understand your rights as I explained them to you, Tony?
MR. SOWELL: Yes, sir.
DET. BAUMILLER: Do they call you Tony or Anthony?
MR. SOWELL: Tony.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay. So do you want to talk to us? JI know you said you got some sleep last night. I know you probably want to get this over with.
MR. SOWELL: What's the best way that I can help you all out?
DET. BAUMILLER: Well, you know what, my name is Michael or Mike. This is Rich, Rich Durst, Detective Durst.
DET. DURST: Hi.
DET. BAUMILLER: And this is Joe Rini. We are from the sex crimes unit. What we want to do is talk to you about a woman made an allegation against you about a rape. Yeah, that's true. I'm not saying the allegation is true but she did make ag an allegation so we want to talk about that. Okay? Rich, do you want to go ahead with that line?
MR. SOWELL: Who is?
DET. DURST: Pardon me?
MR. SOWELL: Who is supposedly?
DET. DURST: Well, let me ask you, this allegation was made in September and the girl says that you and -- you and her went in the house and had some beer and you started messing around and she wanted to stop and then you kind of forced her from there.
MR. SOWELL: That's a lie. La La, That's who you're talking about.
DET. DURST: Do you know who I'm talking about?
MR. SOWELL: We just called her La La, I don't know her.
DET. DURST: How do you know La La?
MR. SOWELL: i have been knowing her for awhile.
DET. DURST: Where do you know her from?
MR. SOWELL: The area.
DET. DURST: What area?
MR. SOWELL: Mount Pleasant area. I think I met her through my old girlfriend or something. It was one of her friends first.
DET. DURST: Who is your -- who is your old girlfriend?
MR. SOWELL: I'm not going to get her involved.
DET. DURST: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: She ain't got nothing to do with it.
DET. DURST: She might be able to say that this girl knows you and that it wasn't really a rape.
MR. SOWELL: She said she knows me. She came in. She wouldn't know that. I been with her (inaudible) two years.
DET. BAUMILLER: It's been two years?
MR. SOWELL: Um-hum.
DET. BAUMILLER: You think you know who we are talking about?
MR. SOWELL: Uh-huh.
DET. DURST: Can you describe her for me?
MR. SOWELL: Short.
DET. DURST: Short girl.
MR. SOWELL: Shorter, yeah.
DET. DURST: About how tall? Shorter than me?
MR. SOWELL: Five-three, maybe.
DET. DURST: Pretty small.
DET. BAUMILLER: Petite girl.
MR. SOWELL: It was the same month that she said something about she was going to get me -- she was going to get me or something.
DET. DURST: She was going to ii get you?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. She said something, she was mad.
DET. DURST: Why would she be mad at you?
MR. SOWELL: Huh?
DET. DURST: Why would she be mad?
MR. SOWELL: Because she wanted me to give her some money and I didn't.
DET. DURST: You said you knew her from the Mount Pleasant area?
MR. SOWELL: Uh-huh. I think she stays on -- I can't place the street.
DET. DURST: What did you : say?
MR. SOWELL: I can't place the street. It's off 116th down by -- it's a store called Chillie's. She stay down there. That street.
DET. BAUMILLER: TI know that place, the (inaudible) place.
MR. SOWELL: You know (inaudible) she stays down that way.
DET. DURST: Where do you stay at, Anthony?
MR. SOWELL: Imperial.
DET. DURST: What's your address on Imperial?
MR. SOWELL: 12205.
DET. DURST: How long have you lived there?
MR. SOWELL: Since 2000 --
DET. DURST: Since --~
MR. SOWELL: Since 2006.
DET. DURST: Since 2006. Do you live with anyone?
MR. SOWELL: Stepmother.
DET. DURST: Wait, wait, stepmother?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. DURST: And what's her name?
MR. SOWELL: Segerna Sowell.
DET. DURST: How do you spell that?
MR. SOWELL: S-E-G-E-R-N-A.
DET. DURST: Same last name as you?
MR. SOWELL: Sowell, yeah.
DET. BAUMILLER: This woman that made this accusation, what was -- that was earlier this month, right?
DET. DURST: At the end of is September.
DET. BAUMILLER: Was your -- that's your stepmother you say or Segerna is your aunt?
MR. SOWELL: Segerna is my stepmother.
DET. BAUMILLER: Stepmother.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. BAUMILLER: Was she home? Could she like help you out?
MR. SOWELL: No, she's not. She had a transplant so she is going through a -~ it's like been a major recovery for her. She stays --
DET. BAUMILLER: Heart transplant?
MR. SOWELL: No, kidney.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh, wow, that is major.
MR. SOWELL: She's diabetic. She stays out with her mom or she goes back and forth between her mom and the hospital.
DET. DURST: Do you know where her mom lives? Scottsdale, that's the only thing I know.
DET. BAUMILLER: The street Scottsdale or the city?
MR. SOWELL: The street Scottsdale.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay. She's (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: Right on the other side of Lee Road.
DET. BAUMILLER: Yeah, you know what, (inaudible) know where you're talking about.
DET. DURST: So Sergena is your stepmother?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. DURST: And she is either in the hospital or she stays with her mom who lives on Scottsdale.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, right. She lives downstairs.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh, does she? Okay.
DET. DURST: She lives downstairs?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. DURST: What's that, first floor you say?
MR. SOWELL: First floor, yeah.
DET. DURST: And where do you Live?
MR. SOWELL: Second floor. I live downstairs and upstairs.
DET. DURST: So you live with Sergena?
MR. SOWELL: At one time, yeah.
DET. DURST: What about now?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. DURST: Where did you sleep yesterday, on the first floor or the second floor?
MR. SOWELL: I wasn't there yesterday.
DET. DURST: You weren't there yesterday? When was the last time you were there?
MR. SOWELL: I don't know. I'm hardly there.
DET. DURST: Hardly there any more?
MR. SOWELL: I'm in and out. I'm mostly -- spend most of my time over a friend of my house or with my family. Because my mom's in the hospital last week we was all -- I remember I spent one night at the hospital, I stayed ali night and that was Tuesday. Went Monday night, it was Tuesday moxming.
DET. BAUMILLER: You were at the hospital or at the house?
MR. SOWELL: I was at the hospital.
DET. DURST: Which hospital is that?
MR. SOWELL: Cleveland Clinic. She's not there no more though.
DET. DURST: When you say your mother, you're talking about Segerna?
MR. SOWELL: That's my real mother. No, my real mother is in the hospital.
DET. DURST: (Inaudible) so Tuesday you're at the hospital which is The Clinic?
MR. SOWELL: The Cleveland is Clinic.
DET. DURST: Okay. Hold on. Cleveland Clinic.
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible).
DET. DURST: But she's not there any more.
MR. SOWELL: No, they moved her to rehabilitation.
DET. DURST: Okay. What's your mother's name?
MR. SOWELL: Claudia ! 1s Garrison.
DET. DURST: Garrison.
MR. SOWELL: Please don't bother her. She is 86. She just had a stroke.
DET. DURST: Where does Claudia live?
MR. SOWELL: She lives with my sister.
DET. DURST: Which is where?
MR. SOWELL: Right there on Abell, 130th and Abell. I don't know the address for her. (Inaudible) know it.
DET. DURST: Should you -- you live with Segerna but Segerna had the kidney transplant.
MR. SOWELL: Right.
DET. DURST: Who else do you live with?
MR. SOWELL: That's it.
DET. DURST: Just you and her. No girlfriends?
MR. SOWELL: She was living with me at one time.
DET. DURST: And that's the ‘ girl that --
MR. SOWELL: That's the one I said we ain't been together for like a year and a half, two years.
SRGT. RINI: When was the last time Segerna was staying at that house?
MR. SOWELL: I have no idea. It's been over a year.
SRGT. RINI: it's been that long?
DET. DURST: Oh, really?
MR. SOWELL: She had a transplant. She was real weak so she needed 24-hour care so she stayed out with her mom 415 and her sister to get better care. Now Jermaine was watching the downstairs place.
DET. BAUMILLER: Who is Jermaine?
MR. SOWELL: That's my stepmother's nephew.
DET. BAUMILLER: Has he been sleeping there?
MR. SOWELL: Sometimes.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh, yeah? But normally up until recently you stay there? !
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. BAUMILLER: You sleep there?
MR. SOWELL: No, not a lot. I mostly with my family.
DET. BAUMILLER: What about the ladies?
MR. SOWELL: Huh?
DET. BAUMILLER: You seem to do pretty good with the ladies. You got a 210 girlfriend. What I'm trying to figure out is this -- you're kind of -- this girl is saying that you took it and you're saying --
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) it might not be that girl. I remember she made a little threat, that's all.
DET. BAUMILLER: You got a lot of women threatening you and stuff?
MR. SOWELL: No, just her, that's all. That's the only one.
DET. BAUMILLER: okay.
MR. SOWELL: The last girl I was seeing was named Shawn.
DET. BAUMILLER: How did that end up?
MR. SOWELL: Huh?
DET. DURST: Her name was Shawn?
MR. SOWELL: Shawn.
DET. DURST: How do you. spell Shawn?
MR. SOWELL: S-H-A-W ~~ S-H-A-W-N.
DET. DURST: What was Shawn's last name?
MR. SOWELL: Smith,
DET. DURST: Smith. She was from the neighborhood, too?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. Further out though.
DET. DURST: What do you mean by further out?
MR. SOWELL: Like 143rd or is 44th and Kinsman.
DET. DURST: Do you have a way to contact Segerna? Do you know her phone number or anything, her mother's phone number.
MR. SOWELL: It was in my cell phone. [t's broke. ‘They say they went to her sister's. Somebody knows.
DET. BAUMILLER: Your sister's or her sister's?
MR. SOWELL: Ne. They was telling me in the car that they had broke -- somebody (inaudible) they said they already talked to my stepmother's nephew Jermaine because they mentioned him by name and his sister. That's who I'm talking about. They know exactly. That's who takes care of her.
DET. BAUMILLER: We just want to make sure --
MR. SOWELL: I don't know it by heart, it was in my phone.
DET. BAUMILLER: So you're family would be able to tell her your okay and blah, blah, blah.
MR. SOWELL: Huh?
DET. BAUMILLER: Your family, like your sister and stuff.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, my sister.
DET. BAUMILLER: They can contact her and let her know (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) she might know it but she might not.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay. All right.
MR. SOWELL: My sister, that's all need to know i'm all right. She'li let everybody else know.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay. Let's talk about this broad.
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible).
DET. BAUMILLER: This broad that's making this accusation.
MR. SOWELL: I don't even know who it is. LL
DET. BAUMILLER: But you think it might be the girl that was going to say -- she was actually going to say that you ripped her off. No -- yeah, that you ripped her off so she was going to go the police, you think it might be that girl.
MR. SOWELL: is that what she said?
DET. BAUMILLER: I thought that's what you said.
MR. SOWELL: No, no, no, fT said she said she was going to get me.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh, okay.
MR. SOWELL: She didn't say it like in a threatening way. But I didn't : know how to -- I can't explain. It made me stop and think she kind of smiled.
DET. BAUMILLER: There might “be some trouble on the way.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, {inaudible) just a look, that's all.
DET. BAUMILLER: Yeah.
MR. SOWELL: It might not even be her.
DET. BAUMILLER: Maybe we should refresh your memory with what she's saying and the dates and you can tell us if this is -~ if she's for real, you know, if it's a romance gone bad. We don't know.
MR. SOWELL: If it was in September. This is November.
DET. BAUMILLER: Right .
SRGT. RINI: This is October.
MR. SOWELL: Te was her. Got to be.
DET. BAUMILLER: I'm sorry, this is October. The last day of October.
MR. SOWELL: So that was over a month ago.
DET. BAUMILLER: Right.
MR. SOWELL: It's got. to be her.
DET. DURST: So you're saying you did sleep with La La. |
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. DURST: But it was consensual.
MR. SOWELL: Right.
DET. DURST: How many times would you say that you slept with her?
MR. SOWELL: Just once.
DET. DURST: Oh, just once.
MR. SOWELL: Oh, before? Twice. That's the second time.
SRGT. RINI: At you're place?
DET. DURST: When was the firet time?
MR. SOWELL: Maybe a month before that. Before then.
DET. DURST: So you would al say --
MR. SOWELL: August.
DET. DURST: August. So you did it with her in August and then you did it with her in September.
MR. SOWELL: Uh-huh. It had to be her. It wasn't Shawn.
DET. BAUMILLER: No?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: Those are the : only women you have been with?
MR. SOWELL: In that time period, yeah.
DET. BAUMILLER: Dude, you're a player, come on.
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: You have a lot ef girls.
MR. SOWELL: In that time period that was it.
DET. BAUMILLER: Was she into anything different, you know what I'm saying? Like -+
MR. SOWELL: La La?
DET. BAUMILLER: Yes.
MR. SOWELL: She asked.
DET. BAUMILLER: What, come on, we're guys here.
MR. SOWELL: She wanted --~- she asked me could she whip me with an extension cord.
DET. BAUMILLER: She asked if she could whip you?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, I said you got to be out your mind.
DET. DURST: You didn't let her?
MR. SOWELL: Hell no.
DET. BAUMILLER: She was saying into that (indicating).
DET. DURST: She was a little kinky, huh?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. I mean that's --
SRGT. RINI: She was into --
MR. SOWELL: That's the first time I heard that like from her. So I was kind of like I well I (inaudible).
DET. DURST: S&M.
MR. SOWELL: How we met, cChillie's, (inaudible) I went to the store on my way home, it was early in the morning, I went to get some beer, beer and wine. She seen me going in and she said could she come by my place because what she say, cause she wanted -- she wanted to sex me. That's what she said to me. I can't remember the exact words but she said that's what she wanted. She wanted me to buy her some dope.
DET. BAUMILLER: What does she get high on?
MR. SOWELL: Crack. She smoke. She called it scooby. She said can you by me a scooby and we can go back to your place. And that's the same day and we stayed there all day.
DET. BAUMILLER: Wait a minute. I want to hear the gory details.
MR. SOWELL: As a matter of fact, I sat outside with her until her ride came and picked her up.
DET. BAUMILLER: That was the 18° same day that --~
MR. SOWELL: That was the same day. The very same day. This is like in the evening, though, around five or 6:00,
DET. BAUMILLER: So roll this out to me when the extension cord came out. You guys -- SRGT, RINI: Did you get the scooby?
DET. BAUMILLER: How does she ~~ how does she go about asking you that?
DET. DURST: She just doesn't like --
MR. SOWELL: She just came out. I think we was on the way walking back to my house. I don't even know how it came out though.
SRGT. RINI: Did she have one a. on her person?
MR. SOWELL: No. After I said that, I said hell no, I don't even think about it no more. Really I don't know how -- she was just talking all freaky and stuff. (Inaudible).
SRGT. RINI: That will make you go limp.
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) she saw me that morning when she said I want to sex you or fuck you or something. That was it. And she spent the whole day with me. Have something to eat. We drinking, we was outside hanging with a bunch of people.
SRGT. RINI: This is a Saturday, Sunday, something like that?
MR. SOWELL: I'm not sure.
DET. DURST: Could you remember -- so you wouldn't remember the date?
MR. SOWELL: No, I have no idea what the date was.
DET. DURST: So you're walking down the street from Chillie's.
MR. SOWELL: I'm at Chillie's when I meet her. ih
DET. DURST: So you meet her at Chillie's.
MR. SOWELL: I'm getting ready to go right in the door. She's at somebody's car. She sees me so she come over to me and that's when we get to talking. I'm going over here to buy this beer and then I'm going home. When I came out she was right there waiting on me.
DET. DURST: And then she says buy me a scooby.
MR. SOWELL: We went right there on her way because she knew the people going down 116th so she called somebody and she got it right there.
DET. DURST: So she gets it right there and then somewhere in like the next -~- because on your way -- where would you say going down 116th because you were on your way back to Imperial, right? “MR. SOWELL: We went up, we went up one of them streets and then went down 123rd so because when she bought the dope we g turned the corner and the dude met us like -- told us keep walking, as a matter of fact she 1. said go ahead, keep walking because they don't know you. I just stood there and waited and then she came back up and we walked down the street.
DET. DURST: And then ali of a sudden she says I want to bang you.
MR. SOWELL: She said that before. She said that at Chillie's when she first -- when she first -- when we first -- as a matter of fact, when she first seen me. She said where are you going, is you going home, I said yeah, IT just want to get this beer and stuff. She said well why don't you buy me a scooby, we will go back to your place because I want to -- whatever she said, I'm not sure | about the exact words but that's what she said. That ironing cord thing didn't come out then. It was like on the way.
DET. BAUMILLER: You guys are like -- when she mentions this, you already start kind of making out.
MR. SOWELL: No, this is still on the street. This never happened at the house. We was on our way going there. Tf don't know how the conversation might even came up.
SRGT. RINI: When you get to 413 the house, where do you guys end up?
MR. SOWELL: We just drinking, she smoking, we drinking and talking, we got something to eat, we had sex, she stayed there all day. This is early in the morning, 6:00 in the morning, she didn't leave until five that evening, five, six that evening.
DET. BAUMILLER: Let's get back to the sex part. I want to hear about that.
MR. SOWELL: I told you once T told her that morming that was it.
DET. BAUMILLER: So in the morning.
MR. SOWELL: That was it. On the way walking that's when she brought that up. I said you must be out your mind and that was it. It never came up no more.
DET. BAUMILLER: Did she say I want to spank you?
DET. DURST: Something like that.
MR. SOWELL: She actually said with an extension cord. I said you lost your mind.
DET. BAUMILLER: Wow.
DET. DURST: Now I would imagine a girl who just comes right out and says I want to whip you with an extension cord would probably get into some kinky other stuff, right?
MR. SOWELL: T have been knowing this girl for at least two years. She would come by my house two or three in the morning, I let her in, we eat, I cook for her because she think I can cook. I remember I cooked her chicken rice and gravy and she said I bet you don't know how to make homemade ! gravy so I said hold on, so I cooked for her and she is like damn, that's good. So we have been knowing each other a long time but we never did anything. She always would come by when I guess she didn't have no where to stay and she was hungry and she would come by, xing ? my bell, I look out there so IT let her in. I used to have ~- I have a wireless doorbell but it got so bad I took the batteries out. She was coming by two or three in the morning and ringing my bell. Tt got out of hand. This was my girlfriend's friend. This was after we broke up. She was just ~~ T been knowing her a long time. She used to come by all the time when my girlfriend lived there. But we never been sexual because I had a gixlfriend at the time. This -- I'm trying to think. One, two.
DET. BAUMILLER: The other times she is talking about.
MR. SOWELL: No, that's the first time. That caught me by surprise. I been knowing her so long that I never even -- she was like this, (inaudible) she would come over my house maybe take off her top or something, take off her clothes down to her panties and walk around. You know how somebody is, I'm like girl, get on out of here.
DET. BAUMILLER: She is not good looking?
MR. SOWELL: She all right. I'm saying I just saying.
SRGT. RINI: We are ali men. We would all go for that. Come on.
MR. SOWELL: No. No,
SRGT. RINI: We would be all over that.
DET. DURST: Don't tell me is she took her clothes off and you kicked her out?
MR. SOWELL: No, we just -- she be -- you got to know the hustle game. That's to get me to buy her dope. I was like -- I was like, you think that's doing something for me. I just wasn't you know what I'm saying? I wasn’t in for it. IT said put your stuff back on girl. (Inaudible) she will be on the street and T have to make her leave my yard. She would be on the street (inaudible) all over my stuff. (Inaudible) I said La La, you got to take off down the street. That's how she was. She just didn't do it for me. I was out there with a friend and she talking stuff to him. He told me (inaudible) I ain't paying La La no attention.
DET. BAUMILLER: How much was the rock you bought her?
MR. SOWELL: 20. No, I lL bought her a 40.
DET. BAUMILLER: AR 40?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. BAUMILLER: We are in the Sex Crimes Unit so we heard it all. Some chicks and guys, too, they like to be, you know, they like their air cutoff. You know that actor, Carradine, that guy, do you remember he was the Kung Fu guy?
MR. SOWELL: David Carradine.
DET. BAUMILLER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MR. SOWELL: Killed in Thailand.
DET. BAUMILLER: Well you know what, he killed himself, he hung himself while he was jacking off.
MR. SOWELL: Some people saying somebody killed him, too.
DET. BAUMILLER: Really? We will talk to homicide about that. I guess it's a pretty big deal.
SRGT. RINI: Autoerotic.
DET. BAUMILLER: They cut their air off when they are masturbating and I guess it's supposed to be a big jolt and sometimes broads ask -- you know, women ask for that when they -~
MR. SOWELL: I ain't ever get into anything like that.
DET. BAUMILLER: Did she ask for that, though? Did she ask you to put your hands around her neck or anything?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: No, never, huh?
MR. SOWELL: Nothing like that.
DET. BAUMILLER: Think about it.
SRGT. RINI: If she did it, that's fine. (Inaudible)
MR. SOWELL: Nothing like that.
SRGT. RINI: We are just trying to sort through the he said/she said stuff.
MR. SOWELL: Nothing like that. Nothing like that. I got no reason to lie about her. But she got mad because I won't spend no more money on her.
SRGT. RINI: (Inaudible) extension cord.
DET. BAUMILLER: Did she seem disappointed when you said no to that extension cord?
MR. SOWELL: No, I was ready to get out of the house. I let her use my phone and she called somebody to pick her up.
DET. DURST: Was there one nearby that would trigger that in her conversation?
MR. SOWELL: We was on the street.
DET. DURST: She didn't have one in her pocket or anything?
MR. SOWELL: Not that I know of.
DET. BAUMILLER: You just said that you were ready to get on out use the house phone when she said (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: My cell phone.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh.
MR. SOWELL: No, this is -- she stay down the street. This is way in the evening but I'm just ready -- she done been there all day long. This is 6:00 in the -- 1. like 7:00 in the morning when I (inaudible).
DET. BAUMILLER: Well you must have dug her if you let her hang out with you all day long.
MR. SOWELL: She's okay. She been -- I keep telling she had been there a few times. This ain't her -- this is not her first time. She done been there at least 30 times. We only had sex twice that I can actually remember, twice. I'm pretty sure that's what. Nothing like that, I never even thought that she was into nothing like that. This is the first time I even heard something like that.
DET. BAUMILLER: Tony, let me ask \ you this, did she reach for your throat.
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: She didn't try any of that stuff?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: Was she -- what kind of sex did you guys have?
MR. SOWELL: Just regular sex.
DET. BAUMILLER: Just vaginal, a. penis in the vagina type stuff?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. BAUMILLER: No anal, she wasn't asking for any of that?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: No. Okay. All right. Well, hey, man that's good to know. So she was pretty much looking to get high.
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. BAUMILLER: But you knew (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) right, because we had been talking for awhile, not talking, talking, but I been -~ to me she was like a tease. TI overlooked her. You know ' what I'm saying, I was like, when she come over I be like put your clothes on, I ain't with that stuff right now. You ain't fooling me. That was it. She used to come by (inaudible) I came and rung your bell, (Inaudible) 1 finally that day I say you know what, you're the reason I don't even keep no batteries in my bell. I said my bell don't even work. I told her that day, I said -- cause you all be coming ~- because you be coming around here -- she be coming around intoxicated all the time. That's one thing, making all kind of noise and then she act all bending over in front of people all in front of my house, I said that's why I took the -- I said that's why I took the batteries out. That's why I never answer the door because I might be here but I don't even answer no more because she be coming over all time of night, hours and morning and stuff like that.
DET. BAUMILLER: Waking your step mom up and stuff.
MR. SOWELL: Right.
SRGT. RINI: Obviously she has given us a little different account than you're giving us and we are not calling you a liar, we are just trying to figure out what the truth is.
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible).
SRGT. RINI: T mean -- anything -~ you can only help yourself if something kinky went down. We are just trying to sort through things.
MR. SOWELL: That's the only thing she brought up.
SRGT. RINI: Why would she come to us with a different version?
MR. SOWELL: I don't know, T don't know what her (imaudible) --
SRGT. RINI: You are buying her scoobies --
MR. SOWELL: I won't buy her no more, know.
SRGT. RINI: You're giving her straight sex.
MR. SOWELL: I won't buy her no more. I won't buy her no more. She ate and everything.
SRGT. RINI: She's bitter.
MR. SOWELL: She still think I'm going to keep buying (inaudible) I'm not going to keep doing that.
DET. BAUMILLER: Yeah, I mean when does it end.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. But everything was cool when she left. She left, we was out front waiting for her ride. Her ride came to my house and picked her up.
DET. DURST: Have you seen her since?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: Ch, you know what, actually doesn't she say that, you know, he -- you gave her some clothes or something? Or -- no. Yeah. You helped her out or something?
MR. SOWELL: She went on the steps and got some of my girlfriend's clothes. She wanted a new top to put on I think or something. I told her to go down -- I been having my girlfriend stuff for her and she ain't picked it up. I told her to go on down and get whatever you want.
DET. BAUMILLER: Out of your step mom's house.
MR. SOWELL: No, down in the basement there are stacks of clothes down there and all the clothes down there is from my old girlfriend's stuff. I got a few things upstairs but it's still in my drawers and stuff like, little stuff that I ain't got rid of and (inaudible) bag up.
DET. BAUMILLER: Girl stuff?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, my 1. girlfriend's stuff.
SRGT. RINI: Why didn't she just wear her own clothes?
MR. SOWELL: Cause I think she put them in bags because after they be on the street so many days they will change, you know what I'm saying?
SRGT. RINI: No, I mean La La, why would she say, hey, could I get a change of clothes before I split?
MR. SOWELL: No, she wanted to change her top because she had been out T guess -- I can't explain it.
DET. BAUMILLER: Go ahead, we got time.
MR. SOWELL: Because this ain't the first time.
SRGT. RINI: I mean you are not Wal Mart, go down and pick something off the rack.
MR. SOWELL: My girlfriend used to do it for me. These girls be out there on the street and one they say -- now you don't want to be seen in the same stuff, you know what I'm saying, for two days something like that, so she asked could she get a top.
SRGT. RINI: You get all nasty and ripe.
MR. SOWELL: Huh?
SRGT. RINI: You get all nasty and ripe, you got to get some fresh clothes on.
MR. SOWELL: Tt was just a top, though, a tank top. She didn't ask for 2. no pants or nothing like that. She just asked can I get a top to put on.
DET. DURST: And you gave her a top?
MR. SOWELL: I told her to go ! down ~~ she got one. It was a pink one.
DET. DURST: She got a pink one?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. She went down and picked it out.
SRGT. RINI: What was she wearing that she wanted to get rid of?
MR. SOWELL: She had another top on that she put in her bag.
DET. DURST: Do you remember what. that was?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. DURST: Is it still at the house?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: Did you wash it for her or nothing?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: No. So that's cool, you were actually being pretty nice to her.
MR. SOWELL: She was always cool with me. That's what 7 can't understand and I stayed out there waiting for her until her ride came.
DET. DURST: Do you know who picked her up?
MR. SOWELL: No, all I know it was somebody in a truck.
DET. DURST: It was a truck. What kind of truck?
MR. SOWELL: The one with a bed on it, that's all I know.
DET. BAUMILLER: Do you want to see 1£ Lemmy and Mel are here yet.
MR. SOWELL: It wasn't like an SUV or nothing, it had a bed.
DET. DURST: Like a pick-up truck?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, a pick-up truck.
DET. DURST: Okay. Do you know what kind of pick-up truck it was? What color was it?
MR. SOWELL: Grayish. That's all I -- that's all I can say.
DET. BAUMILLER: Anything else?
DET. DURST: What do you think?
MR. SOWELL: As a matter of fact, me, her and about three or four other people were out there talking.
DET. BAUMILLER: Out where?
MR. SOWELL: Out front of my house.
DET. BAUMILLER: oh, yeah?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. DURST: So they saw that everything was cool?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. DURST: Who was that? Can we talk to them?
MR. SOWELL: They are street people. I don't know -- I don't know like that. I can call them by -~ I call one of them I think -- I think one of them, Boo was 1? there and I think Leroy was there, Leroy and maybe Mr. Bet. I'm not sure. The guy that lives next-door -- not. lives next-door to me but he owns the house next-door to me but he owns the store on the corner.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay. Arabic guy?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: No.
MR. SOWELL: African.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: Not the store, the restaurant thing like over there, you see Best Pieces of Chicken.
DET. BAUMILLER: That's not open. Is that still open?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, it’s open.
DET. BAUMILLER: How is their food, any good?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. It's not his, he rents it out to a lady.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh, okay. Is she still cooking there?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. He bought the house right next door to me.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay. That brown brick?
MR. SOWELL: Brick house.
DET. BAUMILLER: Is that a house or an apartment? That's a big --
MR. SOWELL: That's a house.
DET. DURST: Anyone live there?
MR. SOWELL: No, but they always there working on it everyday. They fixing it up. He's fixing it up.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: And Leroy and him, Leroy works for him. They was all -- all of them -- they all seen us out there. Because we was all laughing and messing with La La and stuff.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh, really? She is kind of like the neighborhood girl, huh?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, everybody knows her.
DET. BAUMILLER: So you been to your gister's lately?
MR. SOWELL: I'm always at my sister's.
DET. BAUMILLER: Were you there like, I don't know, yesterday?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. BAUMILLER: So where you been the last couple of days?
MR. SOWELL: Twas at -- £ stayed in the house, the house they say they seen me coming out of.
DET. BAUMILLER: Which house is that?
MR. SOWELL: It's like on Martin Luther King Drive. It's a few blocks down from there.
SRGT. RINI: Is it vacant?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. BAUMILLER: How come you didn't go home?
MR. SOWELL: To my sister's?
DET. BAUMILLER: No, to your house.
MR. SOWELL: Because I knew you all was looking for me.
DET. BAUMILLER: Did you see all those trucks out there?
MR. SOWELL: I didn't go past there. ;
DET. DURST: Do you know what. would have been great, with all those news cameras there if you would have just walked up, here I am. Those guys would have loved it.
SRGT. RINI: You knew that they were looking for you. What did you think they were looking for you for? What was going i through your head there?
MR. SOWELL: I don't know. They just told me they was looking -- somebody said actually somebody from the area told me.
SRGT. RINI: T£ you and La La didn't -- if you didn't do anything wrong with La La and you knew all these people are looking for you, f would be like what the fuck, I'm going to go home and try to figure out what's going on. I'm not going to go in sleep in an abandoned house.
MR. SOWELL: I didn't know nothing about ha La. IT had no idea of what about La La. I had no idea nobody was looking "45 for me. (Inaudible). I had no idea they were looking for me about La ha.
DET. BAUMILLER: Hey, Tone, this ig is really, really important. I think you have been pretty honest with us so far, you know what I mean, and probably in the next block of time, 15, 20 minutes might be the most important 15 minutes of your life. What we're looking for you is to be honest with us some more.
MR. SOWELL: Okay.
DET. BAUMILLER: All right.
MR. SOWELL: What now?
DET. BAUMILLER: TI think you know what I'm talking about.
MR. SOWELL: I told you if I can help, f'll try.
DET. BAUMILLER: All right. Let’s just get this over with and talk about what's going on in your home. Okay? Now you know we have been to your home.
MR. SOWELL: Okay. What, what, what. (Inaudible)
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay. Upstairs on the third £loor where you stay we saw -- we found some folks up there. Now, hey, I know it's tough. You know you're running with some people that are kind of fringe folks, (inaudible) it's real important, you're honest with us, you know why you're down here. So what happened up there on that third floor?
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) .
DET. BAUMILLER: Yeah.
MR. SOWELL: I just hate what they did -- what they do to me. I'ma nice : guy. I feed them and they steal and treat you like shit. Forget about you. My head like --
DET. BAUMILLER: You got some anger. Tone, let me tell you something, everybody we talked to told us what a nice guy you are.
MR. SOWELL: I help everybody.
DET. BAUMILLER: You do.
MR. SOWELL: I feed the people. My birthday party, I fed the community.
DET. BAUMILLER: Well you know what, everybody, everybody (inaudible)
MR. SOWELL: I cook hot dogs, French fries, anybody who want to play across the street and play, play down here, play down the street, the rest of the people just come by.
DET. BAUMILLER: What pissed you off? What did these people do to make you angry? Because you know what, we are all human beings, we all know that anger. What did these people do to just pis Tony Sowell off?
MR. SOWELL: My head. I don't know what's wrong with me.
DET. BAUMILLER: Do you know what, Tone, let's talk about the first time your anger got a hold of you and it got to be é too much.
MR. SOWELL: I don't know if it’s anger like that.
DET. BAUMILLER: Rage?
MR. SOWELL: No, I cantt an explain.
DET. BAUMILLER: Hate?
MR. SOWELL: I just feel if you treat somebody good then they will be like -- they will be in my head like telling me shit.
SRGT. RINI: when did you first lose control of this anger?
MR. SOWELL: After me and my girlfriend broke up, I guess. DET, BAUMILLER: What was your head telling you, Tony?
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) they the one. They -- what was I supposed to do. It's like I was supposed to rape those girls and shit. People don't give a fuck about nothing, nobody. Even when you help them. (Inaudible) I was just -- I just -- I don't know what happened but I know it had something to do with my last girlfriend.
DET. BAUMILLER: So when you broke up with your last girlfriend that's when this started, huh?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. BAUMILLER: Do you want some water? Hey, cream and sugar.
MR. SOWELL: Let me tell you a story about her. Crack head. But I loved her and I helped her. JI used to go out on the street and look for her because I would be worried. I had a phone (inaudible) I had a cell phone so she could always call. She'd leave and be gone for days and weeks. I said at least call and let me know you're all right. I said why don't you let me get you some help. I said I will be there for you, I will come visit you, I will help you. (Inaudible) I think I called suicide prevention, I don't know -- that's who I ended up -- crisis center or something.
DET. BAUMILLER: Did you get (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: Crisis people. I spent the whole weekend just crying and they was like ~~ but they helped me, they said, six, we're going to get you -- they gave me a number for a psych, treatment, they weren't going to charge her. I think it was (inaudible) that kind of thing. They were going to (inaudible).
SRGT. RINI: When was this, maybe a couple years ago, last week?
MR. SOWELL: A couple years ago, but I'm sure it's in the system because they took the name down and they called back at the house.
DET. BAUMILLER: What was her name?
MR. SOWELL: Huh?
DET. BAUMILLER: What was her name?
MR. SOWELL: I not going to tell you.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: I don't -- (inaudible).
SRGT. RINI: And that's her clothes that were in the basement, the same girifriend you were talking about?
MR. SOWELL: Yes. She had clothes, some clothes upstairs, some clothes downstairs. Back in April she called me and they was moving and she said could she bring some more -- some stuff and leave it there. LL We, back in May, then April they was going to move and she would come and get it and she never came and got it.
DET. BAUMILLER: So Tone, you're girlfriend is not one of the people we found in your house?
MR. SOWELL: No, she works right downtown.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: Right downtown.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: I love her,
SRGT. RINI: But at that point you feel when you weren't able to control your hate or your anger or whatever ' you want to call it --
MR. SOWELL: That's when I started hearing things. Z mean it was just -- I just like had a breakdown or something.
DET. BAUMILLER: Tone, you didn't want to hurt your girlfriend because you love her.
MR. SOWELL: No. :
DET. BAUMILLER: So maybe you took your anger --
MR. SOWELL: I seen her not teo long ago. She called and needed help on something and I went by there and we got into an argument. I said (inaudible) I’m done, you need to come get your stuff. I'm giving you a ten-day notice. I left a message with her to come and just (inaudible) as far as the law you abandoned your stuff. I just wanted her to come in, I was tired of always calling when she needed me and shit like that and then she -~ oh, she treat me like shit. No, that was the last time I seen her. I came down and seen her a few weeks ago in August, in September, like the second week of September. And, like I said, she works down here so I went down to her job and it was my birthday, I made up my mind if she hadn't called me on my birthday I was going to go down there and let her know that.
SRGT. RINI: It was over,
MR. SOWELL: Right. So she didn't call me on my birthday. I went down there, like two weeks later I went down there and I said as long as we been knowing each other, we ain't never forget nobody, we never : forget our day, birthdays, anniversaries, stuff like that. She would always call or she always came by my house but she didn't. So I came downstairs. I mean I went down there and seen her and I just told her and then she said well let's talk for a minute. I'm like no, I'm gone. I just left, turned around and is left.
DET. BAUMILLER: This is where she works?
MR. SOWELL: She works in the --
DET. BAUMILLER: In Tower City.
MR. SOWELL: In Tower City. 5B
DET. DURST: Tone, I missed a part. When did you and her break up?
MR. SOWELL: She got arrested. (Inaudible) last year, a year on paper, she been working there for over a year. Okay. So that would have been 2009, 2008, sometime like 2008 some time.
DET. DURST: Would you say it was -- was it summertime, wintertime, do you remember? Was it cold outside?
MR. SOWELL: She got out in 412 April. She came back home and then she went to stay with her sister because she got caught with a paraphernalia, a crack pipe.
DET. DURST: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: And so she wanted to stay home because she had a lot of programs to go to and everything.
DET. BAUMILLER: (Inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: I think it's about a year and a half now, maybe two all together. But I know it was in May. We didn't break up then. We didn't really break up then. It was never really a break up type thing.
DET. BAUMILLER: Tt wasn't official, done, finished, here is your ring back type thing.
MR. SOWELL: Right, right, right, it wasn't like that. But that's why I was like seeing me when I did that on my birthday, I said on my birthday if I don't hear from her on my birthday then because she would always call, she needed me or needed some help. I was there for everything, court, psych, the works.
DET. BAUMILLER: Do you know what, you bring up a good point. This is another person because people we have talked to while we were trying to find you and now you're telling me, and I believe it to be true, the word help comes up and this is another person that had a drug problem.
MR. SOWELL: Help, what do you mean help?
DET. BAUMILLER: You helped a lot of people.
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. BAUMILLER: And this woman that you loved, you helped her, and it sounds, maybe I'm wrong, you tell me, after you helped her and you got her straight and now she is a working girl, she’s got a job, she left you.
SRGT. RINI: She used you.
DET. BAUMILLER: And you love her, you don't want to hurt her, maybe you took that anger out on some other people, huh? Well talk to me, Tony? What do you think now? Because you helped and you helped and these people turn their back on you and you know, what the fuck is that all about, you continue to help people.
MR. SOWELL: T know. I didn't have nobody but my family. That's it. All the peopie I helped. It's like every time I go out my door somebody needs this, somebody needs that, cut grass. I fix people's pipes. I don't mind that. Like I said, that's what neighbors are supposed to do because they like be trying to pay me and I was like no, don't pay me.
DET. BAUMILLER: You fixed your neighbor's sink?
MR. SOWELL: She told you that? |
DET. BAUMILLER: Yeah, I will tell you what, she didn't forget that. I'm here to tell you.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, I fixed her sink.
DET. BAUMILLER: People love you, Tony.
MR. SOWELL: I fixed her sink. I helped the lady next-door put in her convertor box because I got an electronic background. I have an electronic background in the military. I put in her convertor box. She asked people to try to do it and they didn't know what they was doing.
DET. BAUMILLER: I could use you at my house and I can't (inaudible) my convertor box.
MR. SOWELL: ¥ did that. T do all kind of things. Somebody needs -- I let the guy next-door, he had no electricity, he runs things from my house. (Inaudible) when he first got started now he got a generator. Just all kinds of stuff. Water. Whatever.
DET. BAUMILLER: tony, what was it about the folks we found in your house that pissed you off? They are different than the folks you normally help, right?
MR. SOWELL: IE help anybody.
DET. BAUMILLER: But this isn't the neighbor that you're helping with the vi sink. Maybe you helped these people because they wanted to get a buzz or something. I don't know, you tell me. You got to tell us, Tony, what happened in that house.
MR. SOWELL: I don't -- I don't remember like that.
SRGT. RINI: Tell us how you do remember.
MR. SOWELL: Tt's like -- it's like -- it's like -- it's like it don't exist. Like it fool me or something. I can't explain it. TI just can't explain it like nothing.
DET. BAUMILLER: Put it another person that made you do this. Channel that person. Let us in to what happened.
MR. SOWELL: T almost died in that home. That's all I wanted to do.
DET. BAUMILLER: What's that?
MR. SOWELL: Die.
DET. BAUMILLER: Why? You know a lot of people value you. T know right now you think, you know, that you are some evil person or something like that. I don't believe that to be true, not from what I talk to other people about, you're valued.
MR. SOWELL: She told you IT fixed the sink. I did.
DET. BAUMILLER: I'm sorry, Tony, what did you say?
MR. SOWELL: She told you I fixed her sink.
DET. BAUMILLER: Yeah, that was important to her.
MR. SOWELL: I know everybody going to make me out to be evil, but T'm one of the best (inaudible).
DET. DURST: We are not here to judge you.
MR. SOWELL: It's not that, it's just it is what it is.
DET. BAUMILLER: Well, you know, you are right, we can't take back what happened, you know, what happened, happened.
MR. SOWELL: Maybe Iam. 1T don't know.
DET. BAUMILLER: I don't think so. I think maybe there is an emotion that you couldn't control. There is another side of you that you know you couldn't -- you couldn't control and things happened. That's what we are here to talk about, what happened, and there are people out there that are wondering what happened to their loved ones 1. and you can help them now.
MR. SOWELL: Tf Iocan. Tf don't know.
DET. BAUMILLER: Can you tell us the names of some of the people?
MR. SOWELL: I don't know their names.
DET. BAUMILLER: Even street ig names.
MR. SOWELL: I need some time.
DET. BAUMILLER: Okay. Do you want a cigarette, Tony?
MR. SOWELL: No, I'm trying to think of names. I don't remember names. I don't even -- I might know faces but that's --
DET. DURST: Did you direct all this anger towards females or did you also direct it toward males.
MR. SOWELL: I didn't take no stuff cut on no men. But, no, I was -- I was like with some, I would help them. I would help them. But after awhile I be like you're aman, you got to get out and take care of, 1. you know.
DET. DURST: So it was women that would always set you off, that would put you into this rage.
MR. SOWELL: I guess.
DET. DURST: Was it a particular type of woman, a user, a white woman, a black woman, an Asian woman?
MR. SOWELL: No, it wasn't. Bad. Just bad.
DET. DURST: What's bad?
MR. SOWELL: Bad.
DET. DURST: The women are bad?
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) all the things I done.
SRGT. RINI: You can continue to help people as you have been doing.
MR. SOWELL: So -- nobody -- nobody -- nobody -- (inaudible) is going to be this evil. (Inaudible) they not going to know nothing about nothing how I was treated, how I almost let a girl kill me. The stress. I don't even know. I got a pacemaker. I had a heart attack at 47.
DET. BAUMILLER: Ts that because of a girl? The girl that you loved or no?
MR. SOWELL: I'm sure you heard stories about people on drugs.
DET. BAUMILLER: Um-hmm. it's a tough road.
MR. SOWELL: And her kids used to call, have you seen my mommy. Is my mommy there. Like I used to tell her, I said how do you think I feel when your kids call two or three days straight and I don't know where their mommy is. I said if something happens to you, how do you think T will be able to face them, I'm supposed to be your man and everything and then I let something happen ' to you. T used to go out and hang with her. I just said what is so fascinating about this lifestyle? I did it about three times, she would take me out where she hangs, abandoned buildings, trick houses, you all might know what a trick house is, I'm not -- to me I spent the night in one where people hang out and get high, but they -- she made sure that people there look after me. She told them he 411 is not no street dude or nothing like that, you know. One dude was like humongous, but he looked after me all night. You cool? Yeah, I'm ali right. He wouldn't let nobody -- let nothing happen. I just hung out with her and that morning I said I will be ready to go home. I don't see how you do it. I wanted to get to know her. JI mean I just wondered what was so -- when I was offering, you know --
DET. BAUMILLER: What was the attraction.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. I worked, I said I get paid every week. I will buy you anything you want. Then when I got sick, when I had a heart attack I didn't even know it. Shoveling a lady's drive, believe it or not.
DET. BAUMILLER: The wintertime -- the snow?
MR. SOWELL: This deep. It was like on that Valentines, like Valentine's back in 2007, Valentine's Day.
DET. BAUMILLER: Were you on the news? Did the news truck come out and film that when you had that heart attack?
MR. SOWELL: No, I didn't have it there.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh, okay.
MR. SOWELL: I went for like three more weeks and didn't know it.
DET. BAUMILLER: Oh, no kidding.
MR. SOWELL: That's what did the damage. JI didn't have regular signs.
DET. BAUMILLER: oh.
MR. SOWELL: I thought I had the flu. By the time I got to the hospital 1 almost (inaudible) on the operating table.
DET. BAUMILLER: And that was all. Do you know what, that literally broke your heart?
MR. SOWELL: IT was upset, at I was like -~- I had three clogged arteries. I was going to work ten hours a day.
DET. BAUMILLER: Where were you working at?
MR. SOWELL: At a place called custom rubber from Monday through Thursday. JI worked ten hours and we only had to do four days.
DET. BAUMILLER: Tony, what do you think broke you two up?
MR. SOWELL: She got better.
DET. BAUMILLER: You helped her?
MR. SOWELL: I guess. T helped her.
DET. BAUMILLER: And then she tossed you.
MR. SOWELL: She was in jail or sick or something, nobody in her family visited, nobody, except me. I was there. Right down here visited three times a week, IT was there three times a week. Sometimes, and I wasn't working, I would walk all the way from my house down here.
DET. BAUMILLER: And do you know what, it comes back to that word help.
MR. SOWELL: To save a little money. I put it on her books. She didn't know I was walking. I then I had to turn around, do you know how far it is, and I walked home.
DET. BAUMILLER: Was she down at the release center down there? (Inaudible)
MR. SOWELL: Ts this the Justice Center now?
DET. BAUMILLER: Yes. This is county. (Inaudible)
DET. DURST: And you would walk down here from where, Imperial?
MR. SOWELL: Imperial. DET, DURST: How long did that take you?
MR. SOWELL: An hour and a half. An hour and a half.
DET. DURST: And you would do that three times a week.
MR. SOWELL: Sometimes I had money to go, but when I didn't, I didn't miss no days. Then when she went to Court I was in the audience and I just met her lawyer that morning because I went in and I asked one of ! a the people in there who was her lawyer and they said when he come in we will introduce you and they did so they called her out a little 20, 30 minutes after that and she went in front of the judge. This lawyer and judge, they knew each other. It was going bad for her.
DET. BAUMILLER: oh, really.
MR. SOWELL: Because she got -~ I think she told me she had 12 numbers a. but not only that, I think she had a stay and the judge just was like he would have done this constantly over and over and over so it was getting bad. So the lawyer from out the blue say her boyfriend is here. The judge made me come up front. He called me out. £f went up. She got four kids, never see them but I made it -- I was like tell her let's go see ~~ she had a young daughter, I think she is like nine. Why don't you go see your kids? I will take you. Hop, trick or treat. We went and her daughters, she told me she wanted some cake and some ice cream and I made sure she got it. My girl didn't give a fuck. All her kids with different people. But I said -- I loved her. Sometimes she would -- she was going to bring it up front of my family and say something about her kids. I told her, I said don't say nothing like that because no way my family understand that you got kids, especially somebody that young. I didn't want nobody in my family disliking her in my family because I told her we all got problems. If co] you like somebody you stick with her. So, anyway, I got her out of that. I 1. get up there in front of the judge and told the judge that she got people, I told her I love her, I'm always there for her and she got people who care and she told the judge she could -- (inaudible) all the judge had to do was check (inaudible) me, but she didn't. She 1? told the judge E see my kids and they all come out. No. Anyway, I talked to her. As a matter of fact, I was getting ready to cry. But that turned the tide for her. The judge put her on probation, strict probation. She turned her life around. She got to stay clean. I don't know if she clean now because she's off papers.
DET. BAUMILLER: But you helped ‘ her get better.
MR. SOWELL: Through everything. And all the time before I got arrested I was like I tried to do that. And it took (inaudible) the jail to make her turn -- her turn her -- everything I was trying to do there make her turn her life around.
DET. BAUMILLER: But you plugged her into programs.
MR. SOWELL: She wouldn't ~~ she wouldn't go.
DET. BAUMILLER: But still that's not the point, you did your best to help her and the fact of the matter is you did help her. Then -~-
MR. SOWELL: I mean she told the people -- I said these numbers for you to call so she going to call the people and at least talk to her. I guess they asked her did 2. you feel like you're going to kill yourself or hurt someone and she told them yeah. I told her don't do that, you're talking to the wrong people like that. And she hung up and they called right back to the house. I got on the \ phone and talked that she just pissed off, she's not serious, she's just pissed off and she thinks it's a game but it ain't no game. They called back later the next day because they wanted to go in and they called back, they asked did she go. I said T don't know because she's not here. I don't know, I don't know if she did or not. But (inaudible).
DET. BAUMILLER: So once she got better she turned her back on you.
MR. SOWELL: Right. I remember when I had lost my job and I don't know nething about no streets, I worked all my life and I said well do you want to help me out. Not once.
DET. BAUMILLER: Tone, how did you help the people we found in your house? What did you do for them?
MR. SOWELL: There is so much Ido. Just -- I feed --
DET. BAUMILLER: Let's talk about the girl in the basement under the dirt. How did you help her?
MR. SOWELL: T don't know.
DET. BAUMILLER: You didn't help her?
MR. SOWELL: TI don't know. T don't --
SRGT. RINI: Do you know her street name?
MR. SOWELL: IT don't -- can't remember.
DET. BAUMILLER: Was she like La La, did you buy her a rock?
MR. SOWELL: Eo can't remember I'll think about it.
DET. BAUMILLER: IT know you did something to help her.
MR. SOWELL: I can't remember .
DET. DURST: Can you remember how you helped any of them?
MR. SOWELL: E don't know. Most of the time I just buy people food, cook for them. Clothes, dope sometime. Oh, like the girl upstairs (inaudible) she always needed to borrow a few bucks, a few bucks, a few bucks. Just I give her (inaudible).
DET. BAUMILLER: {inaudible} the girl downstairs in the basement.
MR. SOWELL: It's not (inaudible) I can remember people around me like the girl up the street because I used to get on her and try to tell her, you know, you got a boyfriend, you all need to get out and find a job or something, I can't keep -~ one time I had her (inaudible) just so I can pay the $5.00 apiece for (inaudible) put some money in their pocket. But I wanted instead of just giving it to her, I wanted that she had to work for it, do you know what I'm saying, because first I was just giving it to her, she come down, they was young and just starting out and still she hadn't ate in three days and her boyfriend just left her and she had no money and stuff. Oh, I gave her food, T put some food in a bag and just all kind of stuff. I gave her hamburgers, buns, everything. I just -- I just -- I just do everything. I don't know.
SRGT. RINI: Tt's a common theme with you is you're always helping someone.
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) my sister works (inaudible).
DET. BAUMILLER: As far as helping people? Tone --
MR. SOWELL: She takes the cake.
DET. BAUMILLER: So you help these folks. Somewhere along the line they pissed you off. Is it because they didn't appreciate your help? a
MR. SOWELL: Nobody appreciates.
DET. BAUMILLER: So that made you angry, huh?
MR. SOWELL: X don't know. All I know is that it never end. TI walk out the door, it used to be you know your neighbors, hey, hey, when I go out my door it's like everybody wants something.
DET. BAUMILLER: The neighborhood has changed, huh?
MR. SOWELL: The neighborhood -- I mean, I don't know. f just -- everybody is like trying to hustle you, wants to hustle, let's hustle. Especially if you gave them money or something, if you are known for being nice. & (Inaudible).
DET. BAUMILLER: You got kind of the reputation with these hustlers that Tony will take care of you, help me.
MR. SOWELL: Not hustlers, just people know on the street. Just like you say the lady, they just know I help out, you know.
SRGT. RINI: You said that you wanted to help some of these families get some closure. What can you tell us that we can help these families?
MR. SOWELL: I don't know nothing like that. All I told them like maybe if I had some pictures. What you want, names? Z don't.
DET. BAUMILLER: Street names.
MR. SOWELL: No, I can't remember that. I can't remember like.
DET. DURST: T can understand.
MR. SOWELL: So I'm saying maybe pictures, I can't -- that's the best I can do.
DET. DURST: What. about this, ! Tony, can you tell me how many people are there?
MR. SOWELL: I don't know, I just ~- I don't remember that. I just don't remember. It's like two of me or something. I just don't know. That part is missing.
DET. DURST: So you go blank or whatever?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. DURST: But then at some point you kind of come back together, right?
MR. SOWELL: Yes. .
DET. DURST: When you come back together --
MR. SOWELL: Tt's like it'te not real.
DET. DURST: But it is real because it's there.
MR. SOWELL: I know but it's like it's not real, it's like --
DET. DURST: But it is and then what do you do?
MR. SOWELL: Like it never happened. TI can't explain it te you. It's like that part is just like separate. It's B80 like --
DET. DURST: It's separate. But when you -- at some point you come back together and you look over there and say whoa, what's that.
MR. SOWELL: I don't know. It's not me. I can't explain it.
DET. DURST: It's not you but when you come back, what do you do? I mean i'm sure you cleaned up a little bit.
MR. SOWELL: I'm trying to think.
DET. DURST: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: To can't (inaudible) it's like I wake up and it's not there no more. I can't explain it to you. Tf can't explain it to you. But in my mind it's like this happened but the reality is like no. I can't explain it te you. I can't explain it to you.
DET. DURST: Let me ask you this: With La La, how come you let her go?
MR. SOWELL: She didn't do nothing. La La didn't -- she didn't do nothing to me. We didn't do nothing.
DET. DURST: When you went --
MR. SOWELL: I didn't have her. I mean I let her go.
DET. DURST: When you took the cord off of her --
MR. SOWELL: cord?
DET. DURST: Well what was it, wire? The cord.
MR. SOWELL: Huh? There was never no cord.
DET. DURST: She has marks on 412 her neck.
MR. SOWELL: Tt wasn't from me.
DET. DURST: Well, maybe not but she's saying it's you.
MR. SOWELL: Tt wasn't from me. She was fine when she left my house. Yeah. Wasn't nothing wrong. She left -- like I said, she left -- her ride came and picked her up right in front of my house. We was out there with three or four other people.
DET. DURST: So you didn't have any episode with the other voices or anything like that when she was there?
MR. SOWELL: No, no.
DET. DURST: But with these other people you got the voices.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. DURST: And what did the voices say? Can you remember?
MR. SOWELL: They -- it's g bad. That's all I can --
DET. DURST: Bad, bad voices?
MR. SOWELL: Bad people.
DET. DURST: Is it one voice or is it more than one?
MR. SOWELL: One voice. T don't know if I'm dreaming, I don't know.
DET. DURST: Does it talk like to you?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. DURST: Does it call you by your name or it doesn't really say?
MR. SOWELL: It don't really say my name, I don't think.
DET. DURST: Okay. And then you kind of go blank or whatever?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. '
DET. DURST: And then you come to, eventually you come back.
MR. SOWELL: It's like as if I had a dream. A dream.
DET. DURST: The whole thing's been a dream.
MR. SOWELL: Right. Because I mostly wake up, I be out.
DET. DURST: Right.
MR. SOWELL: Then I wake up, I might be in my bed or somewhere.
DET. DURST: So and then you get out of your bed and you walk around the house and you can see that something was wrong.
MR. SOWELL: tT don't even walk. I don't walk.
DET. DURST: What do you mean by you don't walk?
MR. SOWELL: T don't walk around the house like -- I don't know. When I wake up it's like everything is okay.
DET. DURST: All right. But you remember what happened, right?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, but it's like a dream like.
DET. DURST: Tell me about the dreams then. It's kind of like a dream, tell me what goes on in the dreams.
MR. SOWELL: It's like hate, punish, hot.
DET. DURST: Like you feel like you're hot and burning up cr something?
MR. SOWELL: Ne.
DET. BAUMILLER: You felt you needed to punish them, yeah, I get that.
MR. SOWELL: It was like punish. (Inaudible) punish. You know what you're supposed to do.
DET. DURST: That's what the voices would tell you? And when they would say you know what you're supposed to do, what did that mean?
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) .
DET. DURST: That's all right, Tone. Would you tell the voices no?
MR. SOWELL: I couldn't tell them no.
DET. DURST: You couldn't keep them back, huh?
DET. BAUMILLER: You had to teach them a -- you had to punish.
MR. SOWELL: All the good people out there. (Inaudible) they hurt, they use. All the kids today don't give a fuck about -- what about your kids. Why aren't you with your kids. You would rather be doing B this than -- this mean more than your kids? You are all mothers, women. Fathers, yeah, but you all women. My mother still today never told me she loved me ever, ever in her Life. It's hard to explain.
DET. BAUMILLER: Now I think 1 get you.
MR. SOWELL: Because I'm supposed to be a man but my sister, she can get anything. She used to stomp her feet, I want it now and she would get it. Me? I came to grips with that because even though there is no book on how to raise kids but it was wrong. That's all I can say, it was wrong, but If don't think she was malicious, she did the best way she could to raise a man, I guess.
DET. BAUMILLER: Tone, these ! women, they were hurting their children in their families by the lifestyle they were leading.
MR. SOWELL: Using people tricking them, just robbing them, lying. They will trick you (inaudible). So many of those things. Still (inaudible) take your money (inaudible) take your watch taken from you, snatch and gone. Those are the only things like that I can remember.
DET. DURST: Let me ask you this, Tony, you say when this would happen you would kind of blackout or whatever, right? How --
MR. SOWELL: I don't even remember meeting them or nothing.
DET. DURST: Can you tell me this: Can you tell me how many times this has happened to you?
MR. SOWELL: LI don't know.
DET. DURST: And when you would come to, these -~
MR. SOWELL: dust like everything is okay.
DET. DURST: What about like ! the house, what would the house look like because when you did some -- you did some damage.
MR. SOWELL: It would be regular.
DET. DURST: Like all cleaned up and everything? And then what -- I mean what would happen like -- so everything would be cleaned up and you would think nothing of it.
MR. SOWELL: I just cold.
DET. DURST: And what did you start to think when --
MR. SOWELL: Get cleaned up and go.
DET. DURST: Would you throw stuff away?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. DURST: You would keep everything?
MR. SOWELL: No. What you mean I throw everything away? I don't understand.
DET. DURST: Well like the people that are dead, there was probably blood on the floor.
MR. SOWELL: Not when I came to.
DET. DURST: Right. So when you were out you probably cleaned up, wouldn't you say?
MR. SOWELL: I don't know. T guess.
DET. DURST: Like thinking about it.
MR. SOWELL: I guess, yeah.
DET. DURST: If two people were in this room right here and one killed the other, he would have to clean something up.
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. DURST: You know. So you would cleanup, I'm assuming you would cleanup, still in the other mind, and you would -- maybe the next day you would go -~ you took your trash out, right? You'd go to take your trash out and you'd notice, hey, there is an extra garbage bag in the can, what would you think at that point?
MR. SOWELL: I just took my garbage out.
DET. DURST: You wouldn't think anything of it.
MR. SOWELL: I don't know like, how many like, it would be like I had three bags of garbage or nothing like that because I pickup garbage, I get garbage from the front because I kept a bag out there and I throw it in.
DET. DURST: How about this, when you went down the basement, because you had to go down the basement to do laundry, right? So you go down the basement to do your jaundry and when you would go back up the steps there is this pile of dirt underneath the steps.
MR. SOWELL: I don't remember no dirt.
DET. DURST: When was the last time you went down the basement?
MR. SOWELL: I wash just about every week.
DET. DURST: So you would see this pile -- because I went down the basement once and I saw the pile of dirt. So I imagine & you have seen a pile of dirt.
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) my dirt (inaudible).
DET. DURST: But it was like this board covering something up down there.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, I remember a board.
DET. DURST: A board under the steps, right?
MR. SOWELL: Tables or something.
DET. DURST: What about under the steps?
MR. SOWELL: That's what I'm 415 talking about.
DET. DURST: Oh, okay. There was a table, the broken table, right? The broken table.
MR. SOWELL: That was it.
DET. DURST: The board and you don't remember seeing any dirt down there? So I'm not quite sure because I went down there once and IT saw the dirt right away. You mean in all the times you've been going down those steps you never noticed any pile of dirt down there?
MR. SOWELL: I just thought it was stuff piled over there. I didn't see no dirt.
DET. DURST: You saw that stuff piled over there and you didn’t think in your mind what is that stuff over there?
MR. SOWELL: It's wood (inaudible).
DET. DURST: Didn't you wonder where it came from?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. DURST: Okay -
MR. SOWELL: it was stuff that it was always in the basement to me.
DET. DURST: Okay. And now ~~
MR. SOWELL: Table. All that stuff in the basement.
DET. DURST: And you know my lieutenant, he was telling you about the whole help thing and how important it is that, you know, what you're going to tell us is ultimately going to help you. You know like we certainly want to help these other people figure out if it's their relatives or friends, but ultimately what you tell us today is going to help you, you know, and I -- f know it's probably hard for you to think about this stuff but I need you to really concentrate to try to figure out --
MR. SOWELL: I don't remember no names. I don't even remember meeting them. Faces. Faces just come at me.
DET. DURST: Before we get to i the faces let's start at kind of like the beginning, let's think about how many times.
MR. SOWELL: I don't know.
DET. DURST: Can you guess?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. DURST: if you had to throw a number out, what would you say, like ten?
MR. SOWELL: Ten.
DET. DURST: 20?
MR. SOWELL: No. DET, DURST: Not that many?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. DURST: 1s?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. DURST: So between 10 and 15?
MR. SOWELL: I guess.
DET. DURST: Maybe? To the best that you can think.
MR. SOWELL: Ten (inaudible) and 15.
DET. DURST: 10 and 15. When -- and you said this started happening after your girlfriend, after you and the girlfriend broke up. Can you tell me, I know you don't want to tell me your girlfriend's name, can you just tell me her 14a first name?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. DURST: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: I mean why, because you want to talk --
DET. DURST: No, I don't want to have to say your girlfriend, I just want to say Josephine.
MR. SOWELL: Annette.
DET. DURST: Annette. Okay. So you came -- you got out of prison in 2005.
MR. SOWELL: 5.
DET. DURST: Was it summertime, do you remember? So it was summertime of 2005. Now did you already meet Annette?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. DURST: So you met Annette some point after 2005. And then you were with Annette until when?
MR. SOWELL: 2000 --
DET. DURST: 7?
MR. SOWELL: 7. Most all of 2007, yeah.
DET. DURST: T'm sorry, you got out in June.
MR. SOWELL: June 20th.
DET. DURST: June 20th. And when did you meet Annette?
MR. SOWELL: Christmas came around -- July 2000 -- July i0th, July 7th, duly 7th, 2006.
DET. DURST: Okay. So the following year. And then when did you guys kind of -- when was it, like the end, when she got off her probation and when was that, can you remember that?
MR. SOWELL: Sometime in 2008,
DET. DURST: In 2008. Sometime in 2008. Okay. And that's when you said you started having these -- these things started happening to you.
DET. BAUMILLER: Richard, I want to cut you off. Tone, Tony, this is Mel, this is Lemmy. They're detectives. They’re going to talk to you now, okay?
DET. GRIFFIN: How are you doing?
DET. SMITH: Do you want some water.
DET. GRIFFIN: Do you want some water, some coffee or something, man?
MR. SOWELL: No, I had enough coffee.
DET. GRIFFIN: Are you sure? Some water?
DET. SMITH: Cold water, cold bottle of water? Relax yourself a little bit. Are you sweating? (Inaudible) .
MR. SOWELL: Can I have one of those cigarettes?
DET. BAUMILLER: Yeah. I got it.
MR. SOWELL: Thank you.
DET. BAUMILLER: You know these are made by the same people that make Newports.
MR. SOWELL: It don't matter, I smoke worse than these. (Inaudible)
DET. BAUMILLER: I think they are just as good. Just as good. Well, Tone, he real honest with these guys.
MR. SOWELL: I will try to do my best.
DET. BAUMILLER: My name is Mike re if you need me. (Inaudible) but they are really good, good guys.
MR. SOWELL: I know the game. I'm just, I'm trying to do the best I can.
DET. BAUMILLER: You know, it's like, it is what it is. It's happened, there is no taking back the past. ‘They are good folks, though. All right?
DET. SMITH: Are you right? I know it's warm in here. I see you sweating.
MR. SOWELL: I don't know why I sweat.
DET. SMITH: Okay. Water might help you out. Are you okay? So obviously everybody toid you -- you talked to how many people so far? You talked to these detectives from sex crimes. They told you what you're here for, you understand what you're here for?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. SMITH: You understand where you are, you are in the police department, Justice Center.
MR. SOWELL: Okay.
DET. SMITH: This is my partner, Detective Griffin, I'm Detective Smith, we are the homicide unit.
MR. SOWELL: Who was that? Oh, the sex crimes.
DET. BAUMILLER: That was the sex erimes unit.
DET. SMITH: I know we are bombarding you, a lot of people coming at you and got you on edge and I just want you to relax here.
DET. GRIFFIN: Just take it easy.
DET. SMITH: And just have a conversation with us. Do you think you can handle that?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. SMITH: Okay. I see you are a smoker. We have got some smokes for you.
MR. SOWELL: Everybody been cool except (inaudible).
DET. SMITH: Well, you know, that's how life is, some people are going to be good to you, some people are going to be cool to you.
MR. SOWELL: They got him out of here so it don't matter.
DET. SMITH: Some people you're not going to be -~- you're not going to be able to get along with, you know. Hopefully you can get along with us. We are not pressing you against the wall. We are not going to accuse you of anything. You obviously know everything that we already know . 39 also, Okay? But our appeal to you, and I like to appeal to you, to the better side, to the good 4& side of Anthony and you obviously know, you seen the news in the last couple of days and you just been walking around. Have you taiked to any of your family members lately?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. SMITH: Nobody.
DET. GRIFFIN: You just been walking around then?
DET. SMITH: Because we know you hadn't come back to the house and I was just curious why you hadn't come back to the 415 house.
MR. SOWELL: My house?
DET. SMITH: Yeah.
MR. SOWELL: I'm hardly there.
DET. GRIFFIN: Are you taking any medication? Any medication you got to have everyday? Are you feeling sick?
MR. SOWELL: I was (inaudible).
DET. SMITH: What is your medication for?
MR. SOWELL: Heart.
DET. GRIFFIN: Heart medication.
DET. SMITH: What type of heart condition doe you have?
MR. SOWELL: To gota pacemaker.
DET. SMITH: You do? When did you get that?
MR. SOWELL: 2007,
DET. SMITH: in 2007. 413 Anthony, when did you come out of the service. i see you were in the Marine Corps.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. GRIFFIN: You did a reenlistment or one term? When did you come out?
MR. SOWELL: "85.
DET. GRIFFIN: "85. My hats off to you. My hats off to you. You got an honorable discharge. That's a lot, that's saying a lot.
MR. SOWELL: E should have stayed in. LoL
DET. GRIFFIN: You should have stayed in. That's still saying a lot. My hats off to you. I appreciate you going.
DET. SMITH: What other medications are you taking and for what?
MR. SOWELL: That's it. DET, SMITH: That's it? Okay.
MR. SOWELL: T don't know what there is.
DET. SMITH: Did you have your heart medication with you? Is it in your bag or your pocket? Is it at the house?
MR. SOWELL: Tt was.
DET. GRIFFIN: You don't know the name of it?
MR. SOWELL: No. = know one is Plavix and about five aspirin. Beta igs blocker and some -- I don't know. My doctor would know all that.
DET. SMITH: What's your doctor's name.
MR. SOWELL: Dr. Souther. Dr. Souther.
DET. GRIFFIN: Where is he at?
MR. SOWELL: VA.
DET. GRIFFIN: Which one?
MR. SOWELL: Wade Park.
DET. GRIFFIN: Wade Park VA?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. It's in my records. ‘The nurse got my records.
DET. GRIFFIN: Okay. But you got to have that everyday?
MR. SOWELL: Supposed to.
DET. GRIFFIN: That's for your pacemaker?
MR. SOWELL: It's for my heart.
DET. GRIFFIN: For your heart. Okay.
DET. SMITH: Anthony, were you living by yourself at the house?
MR. SOWELL: Sometimes.
DET. SMITH: Sometimes. Well who else lives there with you?
MR. SOWELL: Well don't nobody live with me now.
DET. SMITH: Okay. Okay. How long have you been there by yourself?
MR. SOWELL: A year anda half.
DET. SMITH: A year and a half. Okay. We thought there was a woman staying there, either a step mom or -- who was she actually?
MR. SOWELL: My step mom.
DET. SMITH: And where is she?
MR. SOWELL: She's with her family.
DET. SMITH: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: I mean her family. Her mother. Yeah, i guess that is her family. Her mom.
DET. SMITH: Do you know where? We would like to talk to her.
MR. SOWELL: On Scottsdale. That's I know.
DET. GRIFFIN: What's her name?
MR. SOWELL: Segerna.
DET. SMITH: On Scottsdale you said.
MR. SOWELL: Right. You all talked to some of my family.
DET. SMITH: No, we haven't. We would tell you.
MR. SOWELL: But somebody -~ they were naming the people.
DET. SMITH: No, no, a lot of things we don't know so.
MR. SOWELL: I don't know that side of the family that well.
DET. SMITH: There may have been some people that have talked to some of a your family members, but we haven't. My partner and I haven't. So some of the questions may seem a little redundant because you may have already answered them to someone else before so you have to bear with us to a certain degree because a lot of the knowledge we don't have. So we are going to come to you --
MR. SOWELL: i'm just saying like for her phone number, I don't know it by heart. It was in my cell phone.
DET. GRIFFIN: You have a cell phone. What's your cell phone number?
MR. SOWELL: 630-39 -- 3974.
DET. GRIFFIN: 630-3974.
MR. SOWELL: Um-hmm -
DET. GRIFFIN: That's your ceil phone.
MR. SOWELL: Um-hmm.
DET. SMITH: Who is that through, Verizon?
MR. SOWELL: That's a pay plus.
DET. SMITH: Okay. Pay plus. You pay as you go?
DET. GRIFFIN: Tt's like a minute phone. Where did you purchase that at, can you remember?
MR. SOWELL: Chillie's,
DET. GRIFFIN: Chillie's up on 116th?
MR. SOWELL: Um-hram.
DET. GRIFFIN: Right there by what's that street?
MR. SOWELL: There is only one Chillie's.
DET. GRIFFIN: Right on 116th there,
MR. SOWELL: I think it's on Forest.
DET. GRIFFIN: Forest, yeah.
DET. SMITH: So where did they find you at today when the police picked you up, where did they get you at?
MR. SOWELL: Mount Auburn, somewhere around there.
DET. SMITH: Were you just walking the street or something?
DET. GRIFFIN: You walked the street the whole time?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. GRIFFIN: You went somewhere to chill out, a friend's house or somewhere?
MR. SOWELL: No, I was in an abandoned house.
DET. GRIFFIN: Okay. Okay. All right. Do you know where it is?
MR. SOWELL: It was around (inaudible).
DET. GRIFFIN: Do you know what street it was on?
MR. SOWELL: No, I know it was off Kinsman, that's all.
DET. GRIFFIN: Because it was raining and stuff.
DET. SMITH: Well you know we got to ask you some questions about some things, about the house. When was the last time you was at the house? Was it within the past week?
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) .
DET. SMITH: Possibly Thursday, maybe?
MR. SOWELL: Thursday? No.
DET. SMITH: You weren't there Thursday?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. SMITH: At the latest Wednesday then?
MR. SOWELL: I think maybe Tuesday.
DET. SMITH: Tuesday. We noticed you left a full pack of cigarettes. That's why (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: That's because I had a couple with me.
DET. SMITH: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: ft had another pack with me. I think my ID and everything. My credit cards.
DET. SMITH: To be truthful with you, you left your ID, you left your full pack of cigarettes.
MR. SOWELL: My credit card. DEP. SMITH: To me, I may be wrong, SO you can correct me if I'm wrong, it appears that you came in and rushed out real quick.
MR. SOWELL: T came in -- T didn't rush out, I just left.
DET. SMITH: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: As a matter of fact, I usually keep my ID. I had just forgot. I remember -- I know I left the cigarettes but when I went to look for my ID, (inaudible) I left it in the house.
DET. SMITH: So you're Le telling me that as about for a year and a half you are the only one that lived there?
MR. SOWELL: No, Jermaine.
DET. SMITH: Jermaine. He lives on Scottsdale, too, right?
MR. SOWELL: Uh-huh.
DET. SMITH: But he was in and out with you (inaudible)?
MR. SOWELL: He was in and out doing his own thing.
DET. SMITH: Who is Jermaine to you?
MR. SOWELL: That's just my stepmother's nephew.
DET. SMITH: Okay. Is it . 9 Jermaine Henderson or something like that?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. SMITH: Okay. So -- and where was he staying when he was staying there?
MR. SOWELL: First floor.
DET. SMITH: Pirst floor.
DET. GRIFFIN: First floor.
DET. SMITH: You guys got along pretty well?
MR. SOWELL: I just seen him the other day after leaving the hospital.
DET. GRIFFIN: How long -- how long Segerna been over on Scottsdale?
MR. SOWELL: For over a year.
DET. GRIFFIN: For over a year? That long?
MR. SOWELL: She had a kidney transplant.
DET. GRIFFIN: And then Jermaine was staying downstairs on the first floor.
MR. SOWELL: Picking up mail, sometimes he have girls over, and stuff like & that, partying.
DET. GRIFFIN: I can understand that.
MR. SOWELL: Mostly during the summertime.
DET. GRIFFIN: Okay. You two were the only one in the house, staying there in the house?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. DURST: Jermaine didn't have nobody staying with him?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. GRIFFIN: Just Jermaine and you (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: IT mean he bring his little friends and stuff over.
DET. GRIFFIN: I'm talking about staying there. 21h
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. GRIFFIN: So it was just you and him in the house. Okay. How long the second floor been vacant?
MR. SOWELL: I'm not sure.
DET. GRIFFIN: A long time?
MR. SOWELL: I'm not sure.
DET. GRIFFIN: Nobody ever stayed there on the second floor? .
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. GRIFFIN: Really? It's been quite awhile (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. SMITH: When did you start staying there about a year?
MR. SOWELL: 2005.
DET. SMITH: 2005. Where did you live before that?
MR. SOWELL: Slavic village.
DET. SMITH: Slavic Village. Do you remember the street?
MR. SOWELL: The house is not even there no more.
DET. GRIFFIN: How long did you stay in the Slavic Village?
MR. SOWELL: Tt was only for a month. I stayed up there from June ~~ like end of June to I think February. So that would be 2006.
DET. GRIFFIN: You mostly always been by yourself or (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: No, T had a girlfriend, We lived together for about a couple years.
DET. GRIFFIN: A couple years. 1. What's her name?
MR. SOWELL: I'm not going to -- (inaudible) I don't want to talk about her.
DET. SMITH: You don't want to talk about her.
DET. GRIFFIN: Do you have any kids, man?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. GRIFFIN: You got kids? How many kids you got?
MR. SOWELL: One.
DET. GRIFFIN: Son?
MR. SOWELL: Daughter.
DET. GRIFFIN: How old is she?
MR. SOWELL: 30 -- 38. Something like that.
DET. SMITH: How old are you?
MR. SOWELL: 50.
DET. SMITH: Okay. You don't look like you got a child that old, 38. You're kind of young.
DET. GRIFFIN: What's her name?
MR. SOWELL: I’m not going to tell you that.
DET. GRIFFIN: You're not going to tell.
MR. SOWELL: You will find out probably. Some people I just don't want to get involved in this.
DET. SMITH: I understand that.
MR. SOWELL: But she's a nurse. She work in a hospital in Buclid.
DET. SMITH: Do you see her quite often? Do you talk to her?
MR. SOWELL: Just talked to her the other day. She called, we was all talking because my mom's in the hospital and she talked to -~ she was on my phone talking lia to her daughter, well talking to us because my sister, they wanted to do something to my mother's heart, she was kind of getting upset and she was calling my daughter, is this okay, are they supposed to be doing this. And my daughter like tell this girl -- (inaudible) I said you know how she is. DET, SMITH: She was just trying to get advice from your kid.
MR. SOWELL: We was talking 1. the other day.
DET. SMITH: Yeah, that's cool.
MR. SOWELL: When I was at the Cleveland Clinic.
DET. GRIFFIN: So you got grand kids then?
MR. SOWELL: Four.
DET. GRIFFIN: All right.
DET. SMITH: So when you moved over on Imperial, were you still -- were you and your girlfriend still together?
MR. SOWELL: I didn't have a girlfriend then.
DET. SMITH: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: We didn't meet until 2006,
DET. SMITH: Oh, I got you.
DET. GRIFFIN: When you moved over there in '05 --
MR. SOWELL: Right.
DET. GRIFFIN: I know I don't want to -~ I know to think about your girlfriend, I know you don't want to talk about her, (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: I will talk about her, no names.
DET. GRIFFIN: You will talk about her. No names. The relationship was good between the two?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, but she was on dope.
DET. GRIFFIN: She was on dope.
MR. SOWELL: You know how that go.
DET. GRIFFIN: You tried get her off?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. GRIFFIN: I heard that story before. We need to talk about the house itself.
DET. SMITH: Are you all right? So what's bothering you now? Tell me what's bothering you.
MR. SOWELL: Nothing.
DET. GRIFFIN: Are you sure?
DET. SMITH: You can get it all -- you can talk to us.
MR. SOWELL: Nothing.
DET. GRIFFIN: We need to talk about the house itself, and primarily some things that we found in your house. I come to you as a man and we all men here.
MR. SOWELL: Okay.
DET. GRIFFIN: Are you okay?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. SMITH: Do you want me to take those cuffs off of that thing right there?
DET. GRIFFIN: Is it bothering you?
DET. SMITH: You be comfortable, a little bit more comfortable?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. SMITH: Okay. Hold on, let me get the key. You are fine with that, right? You will be okay?
MR. SOWELL: Huh?
DET. SMITH: You will be okay if we take that cuff off?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. SMITH: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: T mean they loosened it. (Inaudible) they have it on tight. Bverybody in here. (Inaudible)
DET. SMITH: So basically you have been treated okay. You just had some issues with the cuffs.
MR. SOWELL: I was (inaudible).
DET. SMITH: Well you know, sometimes (inaudible) a lot of things are going on. So, you know. We just -- you and I and my partner we are going to have a conversation basically and we just want to -- we want to talk about the house, Obviously you know we have been there. That's not an issue. So we don't have to argue and go around and around about that, you know.
MR. SOWELL: I already talked to it with them.
DET. SMITH: We understand that you even came by there maybe one time and you saw the police there and you left. And you did do that, right?
MR. SOWELL: Uh-huh.
DET. SMITH: So you know, this is not an issue. Everybody knows what's going on, everybody knows that we were there and everybody knows what we were there for, including yourself. So irregards how far you have been treated by some that have threatened you or whatever -~
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible).
DET. SMITH: We want to appeal to a side --
MR. SOWELL: They are just doing their job.
DET. SMITH: We need to talk au about the issue at hand with the people in the house. Okay.
DET. GRIFFIN: We are not here to judge you. Okay? We don't judge nobody. Okay.
DET. SMITH: We don't know what happened, we don't know the reason why it happened, there is any number of reasons. You can explain to us if you choose to tell us about any things that you had, any problems you had, difficulties of your reason, we'll be willing to sit and listen to it. We are not going to try to pass judgment on whatever you have done or why you have done it. If you feel the need to talk to us about it, then we a. will listen obviously, you know.
DET. GRIFFIN: A lot of times it makes you feel good.
DET. SMITH: Absolutely. And Tim sure it's important to you that what people feel about you or think about you, you know.
MR. SOWELL: I know what they are going to think.
DET. SMITH: But you can do something about that, also.
DET. GRIFFIN: You can change that.
DET. SMITH: You can change the thoughts of a lot of people. They may look at you (inaudible) and think how awful (inaudible) .
MR. SOWELL: What some people finaudible).
DET. SMITH: Some people (inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) things I done (inaudible) I know they was telling the truth.
DET. SMITH: Well you going to get some people that's gonna -- irregardless of what you do or say they are going to think one way and then you are going to get some people that say maybe this guy had 415 some problems we need to look at and sit down and talk to him and try and understand what was he going through. Okay. But our issue is, you know, if you ig choose to do so, you know, explain to us -- or, this is my concern, because we don't know who those people are and we would like to get some kind of clarification on who they may be because there are people that are waiting to hear from us because they want to try to identify their loved ones. !
MR. SOWELL: Right.
DET. SMITH: That's a good thing that you can do is try to identify.
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) like I told him, I don't --~ I don't even remember meeting them, names or anything, but I do have --
DET. SMITH: Look, vaguely --
MR. SOWELL: -- faces.
DET. SMITH: Let's try this, we are going to make this real simple so it won't be complicated for you. At some point in time you started meeting some young ladies and you say Jermaine was meeting some young is ladies and bringing them over. So maybe kind of go back a little bit, you know, kind of shake up your memory a little bit and what you can clearly remember or some memories of what you have or the circumstances or how you met them or where you met them and how they came to be over there and what names they may have given you, you know, would help us a lot and it would help you, it would change -- I'm sure it would change a lot of people's thoughts. You don't want to be thought of as a monster, you are a human being that's got feelings. So that's my appeal to you.
MR. SOWELL: I don't remember their names. I don't remember how I met them.
DET. SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. SOWELL: All I got are visions of faces.
DET. SMITH: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: Now if you got a picture, I might help you.
DET. SMITH: Now what about the visions? Tell me something about some of the visions you have.
MR. SOWELL: I see faces.
DET. SMITH: Okay.
MR. SOWELL: IE don't really kmow (inaudible) .
DET. SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. SOWELL: I just blackout. When I come to it's like everything --
DET. SMITH: But let me ask you this: You obviously met them somewhere, right, and you probably -- most of them that you met, you met them somewhere other than the house, am I correct, you were probably out somewhere?
MR. SOWELL: I think so.
DET. SMITH: Okay. Okay. And where do you frequently go? Do you go to Ss a club, a bar, something like that?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. SMITH: You are not a bar person.
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. SMITH: Okay. So what an things do you like to do that you probably would meet a young lady, where you would meet a young lady at?
MR. SOWELL: dust be out in the area. I just be helping people.
DET. SMITH: Helping like what? DET, GRIFFIN: What would you do?
MR. SOWELL: Anything they need. Cut grass.
DET. GRIFFIN: Odd jobs?
MR. SOWELL: Fix people's sinks.
DET. SMITH: So you're like a jack of all trades, you do pretty much --
MR. SOWELL: Cook food, ceok for them.
DET. SMITH: So you like helping people, is that what you like to do?
MR. SOWELL: Yeah, I guess so.
DET. SMITH: That's cool. There is nothing wrong with that. There are a lot of people out there need a lot of help and LL they are looking for people who can help them out, like guys like you. So basically you would probably meet them while you were out helping someone do something like that?
MR. SOWELL: No, just I don't ~~ (inaudible).
DET. SMITH: (Inaudible) in the neighborhood, maybe like going back and forth to the store or something.
MR. SOWELL: Right.
DET. SMITH: Okay. And were most of the women you met for the first time or was it anyone you were very familiar with or anything like that?
MR. SOWELL: The first time, I think.
DET. SMITH: The first time. Okay.
MR. SOWELL: Maybe not all but most of them, I think (inaudible).
DET. SMITH: Tell me about the most recent person that you met. Po you remember anything about that situation?
MR. SOWELL: The last person I was with?
DET. SMITH: Yeah, the most recent one, maybe. I'm just trying to sort of jog your memory a little bit to see --
MR. SOWELL: Her name is Shawn.
DET. SMITH: Shawn.
DET. GRIFFIN: Shawn?
MR. SOWELL: There is nothing wrong with her, she's okay. ,
DET. SMITH: Shawn's okay.
MR. SOWELL: I called her last week, I think.
DET. SMITH: You called her. Okay. You talked to her on the phone?
MR. SOWELL: Yes. @
DET. SMITH: Okay.
DET. GRIFFIN: What about the ones that’s not okay, their last time?
MR. SOWELL: I don't know no names.
DET. GRIFFIN: Just tell me about it.
DET. SMITH: Yeah, tell us about how you met. You know what, names are probably difficult because exactly -- especially if you just met them.
MR. SOWELL: Most of them, most of them -- most would come up to me.
DET. SMITH: Uh-huh.
MR. SOWELL: Proposition me.
DET. SMITH: Proposition you for money or sex or --
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. SMITH: -- or to get high?
MR. SOWELL: Drugs. Some drugs. DET, SMITH: Uh-huh. Ckay.
DET. GRIFFIN: When was the last time one propositioned you and came up to you for drugs or money or what have you that they are not okay now?
MR. SOWELL: I don't know.
DET. GRIFFIN: You don't know? You can't remember. (Inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) .
DET. SMITH: Take your time. Relax. I'm going to get a bottle of water, are you sure, I'll bring you one.
DET. GRIFFIN: Are you sure you don't want water? Bring him some water.
DET. SMITH: E will bring you gome water. Sit tight, relax, Tone, okay. I will get some water. Hold on one second.
MR. SOWELL: This (inaudible) .
DET. GRIFFIN: Last week?
MR. SOWELL: T don't know, a ig month .
DET. GRIFFIN: About a month ago was the last --
MR. SOWELL: I think so. It wasn't last week.
DET. GRIFFIN: About a month ago you say?
MR. SOWELL: Maybe longer than that.
DET. GRIFFIN: Longer than that.
MR. SOWELL: I said month.
DET. GRIFFIN: (Inaudible).
MR. SOWELL: September.
DET. GRIFFIN: September.
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. GRIFFIN: That was probably the last time you was with somebody that they are not okay now?
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible).
DET. GRIFFIN: September.
DET. SMITH: Excuse me, Tone. bem, may I see you for a second?
DET. GRIFFIN: Sure.
DET. SMITH: One second.
DET. GRIFFIN: Do you want a cigarette?
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) . DET, GRIFFIN: So you went up to the abandoned house, that's where you was.
MR. SOWELL: Yeah.
DET. GRIFFIN: That's where you was at. Did you ever go back to the house when we was there?
MR. SOWELL: Huh-uh.
DET. GRIFFIN: No? How did you know who was at the house?
MR. SOWELL: I came by.
DET. GRIFFIN: You saw the police at the house?
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible).
DET. GRIFFIN: Do you know what, Tone, I want to tell you, a lot of things start out one way and the next thing you know it switches to something else. That's the way life is. In my line of work I find that everyday. You know, things start one way and it kind of takes a turn. There is no judgment on you. You a man like I'm a man. You been through some shit I ain't been through. You even went to the service and shit and come back, honorable discharge. And you're a man like I'm a man but sometimes things happen and that's what we are here to try to find out what happened, okay, bring some closure.
MR. SOWELL: I just -- you want to know what happened?
DET. GRIFFIN: Uh-huh.
MR. SOWELL: T just had a breakdown. I don't know.
DET. GRIFFIN: I can understand that. 1 can understand because it happens everyday.
MR. SOWELL: After me and my girl broke up I just --
DET. GRIFFIN: You and your girl broke up?
MR. SOWELL: Traumatic, very traumatic. ,
DET. GRIFFIN: Yeah.
MR. SOWELL: (Inaudible) .
DET. GRIFFIN: Were you taking medication for that the whole time or did you just start taking medication?
MR. SOWELL: Heart medication?
DET. GRIFFIN: Yeah.
MR. SOWELL: T take that.
DET. GRIFFIN: Was she with you when you had the heart -~-
MR. SOWELL: Yeah. &
DET. GRIFFIN: She was with you through that whole thing?
MR. SOWELL: Some parts. I mean but we was together.
DET. GRIFFIN: Yeah.
MR. SOWELL: She came to my house, she was at the hospital with me everyday.
DET. GRIFFIN: When was the last time you talked with her, has it been awhile?
MR. SOWELL: Three weeks ago.
DET. DURST: Three weeks. At least she's talking.
MR. SOWELL: Eo went and saw -~
DET. GRIFFIN: She talking with 1? you, right? She's talking with you, right? That's a good thing. That's a good thing. If she is talking with you that's a good thing.
MR. SOWELL: What do you mean talking? I just --
DET. SMITH: Here, drink some water and relax a little bit, just relax for a little bit.
MR. SOWELL: I spoke with her @ for a minute and left. She wanted to talk some more but I told her I didn't want to : 3 talk.
DET. GRIFFIN: At least you are talking.
MR. SOWELL: T just had to say something to her. She forgot my birthday, that's what it was.
DET. GRIFFIN: She forgot your birthday?
MR. SOWELL: Yes.
DET. SMITH: Take a break for one second. I'm going to give you another cigarette.
MR. SOWELL: I just told her that that's all the things I done for you and ly everything. I said we ain't never missed no birthday, anniversary.
DET. GRIFFIN: It upset you that she missed your birthday?
MR. SOWELL: No, it was like closure.
DET. GRIFFIN: Oh, okay.
MR. SOWELL: I always said if she don't cal] me on my birthday then --
DET. GRIFFIN: Then that's it.
MR. SOWELL: You know what I'm saying.
DET. GRIFFIN: Yeah, yeah.
MR. SOWELL: I knew, like the other officer put it, I was with her all the time and I did everything for her and helped her and then when she got better, she just didn't give a fuck.
DET. GRIFFIN: What was wrong with her, she was sick?
MR. SOWELL: Crack head.
DET. GRIFFIN: Oh, crack head. Is she still on the drugs?
MR. SOWELL: No.
DET. GRIFFIN: Oh, so you helped her get off, right? You helped her get off?
MR. SOWELL: I did everything for her.
DET. GRIFFIN: See.
DET. SMITH: I'll be right back.
(Thereupon, Defendant's Exhibit A, Sowell Part I, was concluded.)
CERTIFICATE
I, Bruce J. Bishilany, Official Court Reporter for the Court of Common Pleas, Cuyahoga County, Ohio, do hereby certify that as such reporter I took down in stenotype all of the proceedings from the audio/videotape in the above-entitled cause; that I have transcribed my said stenotype notes to the best of my ability into typewritten form, as appears in the foregoing Transcript of Proceedings; that said transcript is a complete record of the proceedings had in said cause and constitutes a true and correct Transcript of Proceedings had therein as the quality of the recording allowed.
Bruce J. Bishilany, RDR, CRR, official Court Reporter, Cuyahoga County, Ohio