By Serial Killer Magazine
Robert Pickton never gave an interview to a journalist. This eleven-hour interrogation and the undercover cell recording that followed it are effectively the only extended first-person record of him that exists.
He was arrested on 22 February 2002 at his farm in Port Coquitlam and charged with two counts of first-degree murder, of Sereena Abotsway and Mona Wilson. This is the following day. It begins at about ten in the morning and runs to about ten at night.
Four officers appear. Sergeant Bill Fordy of the RCMP is the primary interviewer and does most of the talking here. Constable Dana Lillies is the second interviewer. Staff Sergeant Don Adam is the officer in charge of the investigation and takes over later in the day. Sergeant Jim Hunter monitors.
Across the full 252 pages Pickton denies almost everything. He also makes a series of admissions, among them that he was the head honcho, that he had one more planned before he was caught, and that he was sloppy.
What this is. The complete and unabridged transcript of a police interrogation, published in four parts. This is part one, pages 1 to 63. Nothing has been added, removed or corrected. The transcript’s own spelling errors, grammatical errors, false starts and repetitions are preserved exactly as the RCMP transcriber produced them, along with the speaker labels, the parenthetical action notes, the redaction markers and the page numbering, so any passage can be cited to its page.
Who holds it. A Royal Canadian Mounted Police record, Project Evenhanded, file 2001E-1388. It is a Canadian record and the United States rule that federal government works fall into the public domain does not apply to it. Works prepared under the direction of the Crown are subject to Crown copyright, which generally runs fifty years, so this 2002 transcript would still be within term. It was also produced as disclosure and used as an exhibit in R. v. Pickton, and court exhibits carry their own access rules.
What has not been verified. The recording was not listened to. The transcript was taken from a third-party host, and that host’s own right to post it has not been established either.
One editorial change. Long dashes in the original typography have been rendered as hyphens to match house style. No word has been altered.
to do okay. And you were arrested yesterday um, for ah, murder.
Robert PICKTON: Right.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: For a couple of murders. Right.
Robert PICKTON: That’s what they say.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You, you were um, arrested yesterday in ah, at the work site right?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, by a fella and you were told that um, you know, you’re under arrest for two murders and...
Robert PICKTON: That’s what they say yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. And that, that’s actually what’s happening is you know, charges already have been laid, information an, information an, is the, the actual charges that get sworn before ah, you know an officer of the court and the police have done ah, pretty, started to do a pretty thorough investigation. What they’ve done is they have al, they have formally charged you with two murders. Alright and you were told about those yesterday. In addition to those...
Robert PICKTON: I was told about them today. That’s besides the point. I mean I was charged yesterday but I was told about ‘em today.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Um, but you were arrested yesterday?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, okay. In addition to those two murders ah, Rob, the police are also investigating obviously the disappearance of you know approximately fifty ah, workers...
Robert PICKTON: (LAUGHING)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: ...in ...
Robert PICKTON: Oh well.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: …from the downtown Eastside. Okay now, I see you’re laughing there. Let me clarify something okay.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You haven’t been charged with those fifty murders.
Robert PICKTON: (LAUGHING) I think, I don’t think so.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Anything can be.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, well I ow, I’m not here to trick you…
Robert PICKTON: Oh.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: ...alright and that’s why I’m explaining things to you here. You have been charged with two. Alright and the investigation as you can imagine it’s, it’s pretty significant you know, you got, you’re like the Pope for Christ sakes (CHUCKLES). And um, but one thing that I’m obliged to do and other police officers are obliged to do Rob, is when you’re being investigated for something, we’re obliged to tell you what you’re being investigated for. And that’s why you were told yesterday and/or this morning about all the other murders that ah, you’re being investigated for . Now I didn’t say you’ve been charged with those murders okay. Just that I want to make sure that you, you’ve got that clear in your head. Now I know that yesterday, when you were brought in ah, that you spoke with your lawyer. Last night I guess right.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. (NODDING)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Now your conversations with your lawyer are privileged. Right.
Robert PICKTON: What?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What, what that means is that you don’t have to tell me anything that your lawyer said to you. Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You have, you have a, an agreement between each other. You’re, you’re the person that’s obviously in this situation,
Robert PICKTON: No kidding. Sgt Bill FORDY . . .she’s the person...
Robert PICKTON: No kidding.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: ...that give you. Yeah, I know, I can’t imagine how you feel. Probably got a million questions going through your head and my job is to answer some of those questions today here for you. Right. But when you saw your lawyer, your lawyer gives you advice okay. And you don’t have to talk to me about what that advice is you know, I’m sure I know what it is and, and quite frankly I’d be very surprised if it was anything other than, you know, don’t talk to the police.
Robert PICKTON: Yes, that was, I was aware of that too.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay good. Generally that’s what ah, the advice that they give. And you know what, I’m not going to ah, badmouth your lawyer or, or suggest anything um, ah, to you um, to try to change your position because you get your advice from a lawyer right. My job as a police officer right, is to come in here and try to find the truth about what you’re involvement is in this you know, humongous investigation. Obviously ah, Rob as a police officer and as a person I would like you to tell me exactly what your involvement is. Right. If any in ah, this, this massive investigation.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know what’s’ going on.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. And I’m gonna explain a lot of those things to you Rob. Okay. So I’m gonna ask that you be patient with me. Alright. Because um, there is a lot of stuff for me to explain to you and I want to make sure that I do it a good job, do a good job. But one of the things that I really, really want to ah, make sure that I’m con, confident with and that you’re comfortable with is that you understand the seriousness of this investigation. Alright.
Robert PICKTON: (SIGHS) Yeah, I guess so.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. So you understand that you are charged with two murders?
Robert PICKTON: That’s what they say yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. Well you have been charged okay.
Robert PICKTON: That’s what they say.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, the police what they’ve done is they’ve gathered evidence and they’ve met with Crown Prosecutors and based on the evidence as it stands, stands now, they’ve decided that yes ah, the evidence is at such a level that you know, it’s in the public’s interest for us to lay an information, or lay a charge.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Do you understand that?
Robert PICKTON: Yes.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Alright. And based on the way the investigation’s going and the way that the evidence is coming in, you’re also suspected of, of ah, being involved in the disappearance and murder of the other girls.
Robert PICKTON: (LAUGHING)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Well...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, and I know it might, it might seem um, humorous but you know, and I guess, and there probably is a side that you want to share with me but I’m just obliged to tell you that and I’m gonna treat you with respect and dignity Rob, I’m telling you that up front okay. One thing that I do want you to know, and you understand this I’m sure, is that in Canada there are certain things that we’re required to do by law. Right. Like for example you drive a truck, right?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, before you drive a truck what do you need?
Robert PICKTON: You need a valid driver’s license.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Alright, so you understand okay. So that’s the law, the law says that if you want to drive a truck you need a valid driver’s license alright. In Canadian law there’s also something else that you don’t have to do. (PICKTON SHRUGS) Alright. Quite simply Rob one thing that you don’t have to do is you don’t have to talk to me.
Robert PICKTON: Right.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay because, the law considers me to be a person in authority, right. Ah, this is a criminal matter obviously that we’re here for today. And you know these are very, very serious ah, allegations. And as a police officer, as, as a, a um, you know someone who ah, is a policeman right, I can get subpoenaed to court, any court in the country for that matter. I’ve been in courts in different provinces, you know, different jurisdictions, different cities, different towns okay. And I can give evidence alright. I mean I can give evidence, I can get called to give evidence on what takes place right today between you and I. Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So it’s important to me that you understand ah, that you don’t have to talk to me and that anything that you do say could be given, given as evidence because we’re being video recorded right. And you know what Rob, that’s not only for my protection, that’s (POINTING AT CAMERA) for your protection as well.
Robert PICKTON: Right.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Alright and I’m sure you can appreciate that right, and you’re probably glad it’s there at some level, I would imagine.
Robert PICKTON: Well not much I can do about that anyways, I mean it’s here or there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I’m not trying to hide anything but.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: No and you know what, I thank you for that. Um, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. Alright. So basically the way I see it right now is, and I want to make sure we’re on the same page. You know that I’m a police officer, alright. That anything that you say to me can be given as evidence, alright. That you don’t have to talk to me.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Alright that right now yes, you have been charged with two murders.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Alright and that you’re being investigated for ah, upwards of fifty other disappearances and/or murders. Right?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay in your own words Rob, can you explain to me what that means to you?
Robert PICKTON: What that means, what, what it means to me?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Hogwash.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Pardon.
Robert PICKTON: Hogwash.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Hogwash. Okay. Tell me more.
Robert PICKTON: That’s all I can really say, I can’t tell you much, like I don’t know nothing about this. It could be set up.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. I, I guess what I’m , want to make sure of is that we’re on the same page here, as we go through because we’ve got a lot of stuff to go through. So I, I want to make sure you and I are on the same page in so far as um, who I am, and what my job to do here. My job here, here today is simply to find the truth. Alright. But before I do that I want to make sure that you understand where I’m coming from. Because I don’t want, I don’t want, to show you any disrespect and I want to make sure here today that I treat you the way I would want to be treated if I was sitting in that chair.
Robert PICKTON: There’s nothing to say, I haven’t been told nothing.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Let me ask you something Rob. Why do you think I’m here to talk to you this morning?
Robert PICKTON: Well you just said that you want to ask me a few, ask me questions. Cause you want to get, you want to see but I, I don’t know what to say, I don’t, I’m, I’m mind baffling and I’m just a working guy. Just a plain working guy, that’s all I am.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PAUSE 5 SEC)
Robert PICKTON: Now I got all this charges.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PAUSE 15 SEC) yes.
Robert PICKTON: Well it’s a little far fetched isn’t it?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well we’re gonna talk about that later Rob. What I’m gonna do is go through it ah, a lot of this investigation. As you can imagine Rob ah, this investigation is huge, it’s massive (PICKTON LAUGHS). I wasn’t joking when I said you’re, you’re as big as the Pope earlier alright. But before I do that Rob, and I don’t mean to, to over kill it but, you know it is real important to me to understand ah, you. I mean I’ll be honest with you, that’s one of the reason’s I’m here today is to try to understand you. So I want you in your own words though, to tell me why (KNOCKING) you think I’m here talking to you. (10:23) Sgt Jim HUNTER: Can I see you for a sec?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Sure (LEAVES ROOM FOR 20 SEC).
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Thanks, appreciate that. Rob that was one of my ah, partners.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Ah, just knocked on the door there. The reason that he’s knocked on the door is that your lawyer’s called here this morning for you.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Ah, were you expecting that call?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Ah, do you want to call him? Do you want to call him back, or her back?
Robert PICKTON: That’s, that’s possible.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Do you want to, I guess that’s my question.
Robert PICKTON: Please.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You do. Okay. Absolutely. Um, I’m gonna promise you one thing okay here today.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I’m gonna shake you’re hand on it because I’m a man of my word. I’m going to treat you with respect and dignity here today.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Um, I’m gonna treat you the way I would want to be treated if I was sitting in that chair. Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Let’s go get you a, take you downstairs, you can phone your lawyer again. Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And I’ll shake your hand on that and give you my word okay. Thanks. (BOTH LEAVE ROOM FOR 14 MIN)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: (MAKES NOTES - 10:39:43 BACK IN) Okay, where were we. Um, so you spoke with your lawyer there, everything’s okay.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Who was, who was it on the phone?
Robert PICKTON: Some lady I guess, lady.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh, do you know her name?
Robert PICKTON: Not off hand.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Do you know it was a lawyer?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: How do you know it was a lawyer?
Robert PICKTON: Cause I was talking to her yesterday.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh, okay (MAKING NOTES). Excellent. Alright. Now I can imagine um, like I said to you, what I’m hoping to achieve here today Rob is simply to have a better understanding of this entire investigation. And quite frankly to have a better understanding of you um, as an individual and as a person. Alright because ah, the person sitting there right now is important. Ah, I don’t know whether or not you sometimes ask yourself what kind of person you are. But ...
Robert PICKTON: Well I’m just a pig man that’s all I got to say (CHUCKLES).
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You’re just a pig man. Okay. Um, one of the things that I’ve got to do is obviously go over all this stuff with you but before I do that um, I want, there are some other things that I need to cover off. Ah, so that I have a better understanding you, of you. Now you’re comfortable then with having spoken with your lawyer, you’re happy with what your lawyer said to you?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Do you understand what your lawyer said to you?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, because generally ah, their advice is not to talk to the police okay.
Robert PICKTON: That’s right.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Now not unlike when you know, I guess in the early eighties there, you were involved in an investigation with the police and you made a decision at that time to go and show the police where a number of cars were buried. Right, you, you were cooperative. Right. Do you remember that?
Robert PICKTON: Um, yes, but there were no vehicles buried.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Pardon me.
Robert PICKTON: There was no vehicles ever buried.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh, okay. My understanding was that I’m just going on what I was told, and I guess the reason I’m telling you that is simply to underscore that ...
Robert PICKTON: My brother was beaten.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Your brother was beaten?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay I’m not sure what you’re talkin’ about.
Robert PICKTON: That’s here nor there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Alright. Let, let me say this I guess. This might be a good way to put it ah, Rob. You were told ah, by your lawyer not to talk to anybody right.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And then you spoke with another police officer the last, couple of days, Cst. LILLIES.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, and Rob was mad at you for doing that? Or I’m sorry, your brother was mad, Dave.
Robert PICKTON: Mmm, I don’t know.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. No, my understanding was through some of the other investigators that he gave you ah, gave you shit for that.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. I guess my point being is that you know, you make a decision on what you want to do, whether or not you want to talk. Your brother might say don’t talk to the police, you’re lawyer might say you don’t talk to the police, everybody might say don’t talk to the police. But at the end of the day Rob, that decision to speak or not to speak is yours. Alright. As a police officer I have to give you that opportunity to tell your side of the story if you want to. But that decision to do it, to speak with, with the police or not to speak with the police, is yours. Alright, it’s important to me that you understand that. I can’t, I can’t force you to or I can’t make you say anything you don’t want to say. You get your advice from people, from lawyers, from family, from friends and then it’s up to you to do what you want to do. Alright. Like somebody might say to me Bill don’t eat junk food, it’s not good for you, it’s not in your best interest to eat chocolate bars cause its gonna make you fat. And I might still eat a chocolate bar, that’s my choice. Right that’s like this situation you know, you’re given advice alright, but at the end of the day you’re the person sitting in the chair, and you’re the only one who can make a decision on what you do want to do.
Robert PICKTON: Well at this stage here, I can’t really say for anything really, cause I don’t know anything.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. And that’s my job Rob, my job is to come in here and explain some stuff to you and then once you’ve a better understanding you can choose whether or not you want to explain that stuff. Alright, because that’s gonna be your choice I’m not gonna force you to say anything. I’m not gonna make you do anything you don’t want to do. Nobody can ever make you do that, nobody can make Robert PICKTON say or do anything that he doesn’t want to do. Whether it’s not saying anything or whether it’s saying everything. Okay, that’s your choice. And it’s really important to me that you understand that because I am a Canadian citizen and Christ one of my best friends played on the Olympic team I mean how much more Canadian can I be. Alright. And Canada’s a very good country and those rights are very important and it’s, it’s important you understand that. But before we get to that, there’s some things that I need to know about you. Mostly, mostly for administrative purposes Rob but I’ll confess ah, make a little confession myself here to you, partly because I’m interested. I’m interested in getting to know Robert PICKTON a little bit. Ah, I’m a student of human behaviour alright. Ah, one of the things that I enjoy about my job is I get to talk to lots of really interesting people and I like to learn about people. Quite frankly, it’s very, very interesting. You know we all have hobbies, we all have interests. One of my things that I find interesting is people and how do people end up the way they end up. Now quite frankly Rob at the end of the day here, you could be ...
Robert PICKTON: I’m just a pig farmer.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You could be just a pig farmer or you could be somebody very, very important. You know, so I got some background stuff that I’d like to cover off here with you. Now some of it I already know, some of it I don’t okay. Um, stuff that I know I’ll quickly, I’ll quickly jot in. What they do is when they have ah, huge investigations like this, they keep statistics ah, you know, so they can look at different types of offences and, and different types of people in order to understand them (PAUSE) and get to know them a little bit alright?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. Whatever that means, I don’t know, this is, well it’s, okay, whatever.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Now before I do that though, let me ask you something. Let me ask you one thing okay. What do you think of me?
Robert PICKTON: What’s that?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What do you think of Bill FORDY?
Robert PICKTON: Well you’re a human being, just like I am, we all walk on two legs and you breath the same air and just because other people gets higher than other people. I ain’t a college graduate and you probably you have and otherwise we’re all the same.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I agree.
Robert PICKTON: We use the same washroom, we use the same, same drinking water. Anymore I can’t say more than that.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum (PAUSE - 10 SECONDS).
Robert PICKTON: About all I could say.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: My line of pigs. Pigs that are brought up for meat.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Anything more than that...that’s what animals are for.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And, I’m the bad dude.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PAUSE 15 SEC) yeah.
Robert PICKTON: But that’s life, life goes on, we’re only here today, we’re not here tomorrow, we’re not here forever.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You know what you sound a lot like me, I have a line that I say to a lot of my friends, life is not a rehearsal.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, another thing is if I could turn time around, change a few a things whatever I did wrong. But I don’t think I ever did anything wrong. I wouldn’t change my life very much.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. It’s funny you say that, I, I look back on my life, you know when I think about my upbringing and you know, things that changed my life really, and you know, I look back and probably the worst thing that ever happened to me, is I was 18 years old and I used to be a jock right, a hockey player, and I was drafted to go to try out for the Hartford Whalers in, in the NHL and then I broke my shoulder. And as a result of that I ah, broke my hand twice, my arm, my cheek bone, I ended up playing in the minors Rob but you know, I never achieved my goals or my dreams in life. You know, it just never worked out the way I, I thought it would work out when I was you know, in my early teens. And I look back on my life and that’s probably the worst thing that ever happened to me. What, what’s the worse thing that ever happened to you Rob?
Robert PICKTON: Got knifed back in ‘97.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. Tell me about that.
Robert PICKTON: Not much to tell you, it’s all black and white.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: It’s all black and white. I’m a bad dude, it’s the name of the game I guess.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And they nail you to the cross if you can. I mean, when you pay, when you pu, when you push against the wall as far as you can go. Until the wall moves back, you move back with the wall.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Interesting.
Robert PICKTON: You take him to the cross and you…, you get nailed to the cross.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So if I was holding up a mirror then, I think what I’m hearing you say, if I was, if I was holding up a mirror in front of you right now Rob, and I said describe yourself as a person, how would you do that?
Robert PICKTON: Well we wear the same kind of, same clothes, same shoes, just different sizes, that’s it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: (INDECIPHERABLE) males and the females we’re just built a little different. Otherwise that, we’re actually the same.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: That was it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Alright now, that’s on the outside. Alright, that’s your, that’s right you’re talking about you know, we all kinda look the same. Tell me about you on the inside Rob. What kind of person are you on the inside?
Robert PICKTON: Like which way?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Anyway.
Robert PICKTON: We eat the same food, we go to the same toilet, the same washrooms, same everything else.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PAUSE 15 SEC) yeah. Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And I seen people die earlier than others ... cancer
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: ...so on and so forth.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: My mom died of cancer.
Robert PICKTON: My mother did too.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yours did, how long ago?
Robert PICKTON: 1979. April first.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What kind of cancer did she die of?
Robert PICKTON: Spreading cancer.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Brain.
Robert PICKTON: Spreading.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Spreading oh, it was all, it was in her body, so it was pretty bad obviously. Did she die in the hospital?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: How old were you Rob, when that happened?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So you said ‘79. Alright. What was your mom’s name?
Robert PICKTON: Louise Helen.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I’m sorry?
Robert PICKTON: Louise Helen
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Louise Helen. Same last name as you?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah. They were married eh.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: How did you get along with your mom, when you were a child, how did you get along?
Robert PICKTON: Two peas in a pod.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh, is that right. I had a good relationship with my mother too. So you guys were close obviously.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum, yes. (PAUSE - 5 SECONDS) Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Do you miss your mom?
Robert PICKTON: Well do you?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I do yeah. Yeah, I do.
Robert PICKTON: Tit for tat yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I look back on my life um, you know, and my mom, I’ve got ah, a brother and two sisters and I look back on my life and I consider myself to be a really hard worker. You know, I’ve got um, you know, faults like everybody I guess, but I guess my best fault is that I’m a hard worker. You know I can work for eighteen hours a day for you know, weeks on end and I pride myself on being a hard worker. You know, some people aren’t like that and I give all that credit to my mom because my mom was a hard worker and ah, she took care of my brothers and my brother and my sisters and I. And if I look back on my life, she’s the person that I respect most in the world.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Who do you respect most in the world?
Robert PICKTON: Who do I respect most in the world. I worked hard.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Got close to my mother.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. What qualities did you respect in her?
Robert PICKTON: How does that word out?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Pardon me?
Robert PICKTON: How did that word out? What does that mean?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What, what do you like about your mom?
Robert PICKTON: Strong.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Strong.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. And when you say strong, what do you mean by that?
Robert PICKTON: Strong mind, strong willpower.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: When I think about my mom, I always describe her as hardworking and a good woman.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. (11:00)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You know. How do you think about your mom?
Robert PICKTON: The same way. Same way (PAUSE - 15 SECONDS) Same way.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So when your mom had cancer was it a quick death or did she die slowly?
Robert PICKTON: Four months.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Four months huh. Did she die at home or in the hospital?
Robert PICKTON: She died in hospital.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Where you, were you able to be there with her when she died?
Robert PICKTON: Well I was around, I didn’t know where I was.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You weren’t able to go to the hospital and be with her though, cause, were you workin’ or? Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Taking care of the farm.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: On the farm. You were taking care of the farm? Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What about your dad, Rob?
Robert PICKTON: He died back in ‘77.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: January first.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: January first.
Robert PICKTON: My mother was born in March 20th, 1912.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Dad was born in 1896.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. What was his date of birth?
Robert PICKTON: My dad?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Unknown. Born in England.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh. Is PICKTON an English name?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. My mother was born in, in Saskatchewan.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So was ah, my, my mother. So was my grandmother.
Robert PICKTON: Raymond’s Creek.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I’m sorry where?
Robert PICKTON: Raymond’s Creek.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Raymond’s Creek yeah. Small, it must be a small town.
Robert PICKTON: Just outside Swift Current.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Did you get there often?..How did you get along with your dad as a child?
Robert PICKTON: What’s that?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: How did you get along with your dad as a kid?
Robert PICKTON: Good.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Where you around when he passed away?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: How did he die?
Robert PICKTON: Old age.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Jes, he had a pretty good life didn’t he?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So your dad died first and then your mom died after of cancer, she was alone. Oh, too bad. Was she lonely?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: No it’s kinda funny I ah, half heartedly I always joke around with ah, my friends and about how I’m gonna die. You know, I’ve always kinda said oh, when I die I hope it’s listening to U2 driving you know, on the, along the freeway and ah, I hope it’s quick (SNAPS FINGERS). In December last year, I was out driving on the northern part of the Island on my way up to do ah, a help out on an investigation and I was listening to U2 and I lost control of my car and went into the rocks and rolled my car a couple of times and I still can’t figure out why I’m here because ah, I probably should have died that day. You know, so it was kinda like I almost called my own death. How do you want to die?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know. I don’t know. Old age probably.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. Like your dad.
Robert PICKTON: We’re here as long as we’re here for.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: And there’s a reason we’re here for.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: There’s a reason you say?
Robert PICKTON: There’s always a reason between everything.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well I agree with you. I agree. I sometimes ask myself why did I break my shoulder you know and not make, I told you about, the worse thing that ever happened to me. And I asked myself sometimes, why did that happen? You know, a lot of my friends have gone on and made millions of dollars and, and I didn’t you know, I’m ah, I’m proud of who I am but I ask myself why, why did that happen? And I guess the answer I always find is everything happens for a reason, but sometimes we search for the reason. What do you think the reason that you’ve ended up here today is?
Robert PICKTON: Don’t know. Don’t know. You’re only here today, you’re not here tomorrow.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Life is not a rehearsal. (LAUGHING) you sound just like me. One thing that I do consider myself fortunate is ah, I’ve got a couple of kids Rob, a couple of little rascals that keep me up at night and drive me crazy in the morning you know. Probably the best thing that ever happened to me was the birth of my kids. You know, I look back on my life and you know, I might have ah, ended up Christ, I could be in that chair. You know, having kids changed my life. Probably the best thing that ever happened to me was having kids. Without a doubt.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What’s the best thing that’s ever happened to you?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know, work.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: I went on a holiday once.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Where’d you go?
Robert PICKTON: Kansas City, Missouri.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Hum. Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: I had a return ticket.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Cash it in up there, that was in 1974.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: February, I think it was February 8th I had a ticket.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: By United Airlines.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Cashed it up there. I had two hundred dollars cash on me in traveler’s cheques and a return ticket. But I cashed it up there, I had a chance to work for forty bucks an hour when I had, to work up there. I don’t know back from holidays. Had to go back in Canada to get to cash, cash it in. I was twenty-four at the time. Couldn’t rent a car...and George Washington was giving cherry pies away.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, I went by bus to Kansas City, Missouri, St. Louis, Missouri, all the way to Chicago, Chicago’s a dirty town.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Lots of blacks over there, not that I’m prejudiced or anything.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: But you have to aw, you gotta be careful there at nighttime.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Why is that, because there’s no gas. Now you can get five, if you can get two or three dollars of gas, two or three gallons of gas you’re lucky. Cause there was a gas war.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: I mean, different pen pals all the way around. Going from place, to place, to place, to place, meeting all these people.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I was gone for six and half weeks. I was engaged.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: But, she couldn’t leave her job and I couldn’t leave my job. I had to get back to the farm.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: So she’s probably married off by now and everything else.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um.
Robert PICKTON: Her name was Connie ANDERSON.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PAUSE 20 SEC)
Robert PICKTON: She’s probably married off, she got kids and everything else.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That’s a long time ago.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PAUSE 20 SEC)
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, she’s probably married off. (PAUSE 30 SEC)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PAUSE 30 SEC)
Robert PICKTON: But I had to get back to the farm.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: I enjoyed myself.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: And I never get there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I’m sorry, pardon me?
Robert PICKTON: I never got down to the States again.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Well that’s life.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You said that you couldn’t rent a car, and they were giving cherry pies away, what, what do you mean by that?
Robert PICKTON: George WASHINGTON chopped a cherry tree down.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: And giving cherry pies away. Every time you go into the stores somebody gotta give me a cherry pie. (PAUSE)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Uh, huh. Did you have any cherry pie?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Do you like Cherry pie?
Robert PICKTON: Oh, it’s all right. Next to rhubarb.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: My favorite is Pumpkin, I was gonna say.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t eat any vegetables.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You don’t eat vegetables at all, just meat.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What’s your favorite kind of meat?
Robert PICKTON: Pork.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: (LAUGHING) that’s a silly question eh? Yeah, of course it is. Um, so how did you meet Connie?
Robert PICKTON: Pen pals, writing, writing, writing back and forth.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And then you hooked up with her down there? How long did you spend with her?
Robert PICKTON: Five weeks.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Did you enjoy it?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: When did you get engaged?
Robert PICKTON: Down there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Like right away, or ...
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Like automatic love eh, you just knew this was the girl.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What did she look like?
Robert PICKTON: Tall, blond, very nice.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Five foot ten, eleven.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Five foot eleven. Wow.
Robert PICKTON: Heavy set, I mean nice size, nice, nice, nice body, nice ...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Hundred forty pounds.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. Um, hum. (PAUSE - 15 SECONDS) So you guys were together for five weeks.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And then ah, she said she couldn’t come up?
Robert PICKTON: No she was supposed to come up but she never did.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What happened, her parents wouldn’t let her come or what?
Robert PICKTON: No she couldn’t get time off work.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What kind of work did she do?
Robert PICKTON: She worked in ah, she’s works in the Bay, she was ah, yeah, head one in the Bay.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh, so she had a big job kinda thing.
Robert PICKTON: She wanted me to stay down there and I couldn’t stay down there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Why not?
Robert PICKTON: Cause I had to run the farm.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What about Dave or your sister?
Robert PICKTON: No, not my sister, knows nothing. My brother nothing.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Did you explain to them that you met the girl of your dreams?
Robert PICKTON: Well shit happens.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Hum.
Robert PICKTON: It does happen.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So when you and Connie were down there having ah, tell me...
Robert PICKTON: That’s in Pontiac, Michigan.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: That’s right yeah. Okay. General Motors has a plant there I think now. What kind of stuff did you and Connie do?
Robert PICKTON: Well we just go here, go there, meet different people.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: You know, she’s not a bar scene or anything else, I’m not neither.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. Sightseeing and traveling around.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What was your favorite thing to do there?
Robert PICKTON: Going out.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Enjoying ourselves.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Just having fun you know.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Just enjoying each other’s company.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Kind of thing yeah. Connie ever meet your mom?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Cause your mom was still alive in ‘74.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Did you tell your mom about Connie?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What did your mom think about that?
Robert PICKTON: It’s alright, it’s cool.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So she was supportive of you guys developing this relationship?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, what about your dad?
Robert PICKTON: My dad, always on the go, keep the farm going.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. What...um, hum. So what did he think about Connie?
Robert PICKTON: Who?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Your dad.
Robert PICKTON: Whatever. Never really talked to my dad much.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: No. So you guys didn’t have a very good relationship as kids...
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Just didn’t talk a lot.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, we were working.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Always working. So your mom was the one that you were, was the one you were closer to eh?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You’re lucky. Some people don’t have that relationship with their moms.
Robert PICKTON: No. No problem. Very close to her.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Got a picture of her?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You don’t have any or...no. Do you look like her?
Robert PICKTON: Never looked at it that way. Well my sister looks like her more, more than me. (11:20)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Linda. Tell me about Linda.
Robert PICKTON: Well not much to say about her. She went to school, Catholic school she’s growing up.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That’s about it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That’s about it. Never me and Linda was close. I’m always working on the farm she always like, she always like the ah, highlights. That’s good. She enjoyed it, she enjoyed herself.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: When you say like the highlights, what do you mean by that?
Robert PICKTON: Well she like the ah, she likes to go out, go here, go there. Not that I’m against anything.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: But she likes ah, she went to school, private, to University everything else. And myself um, I don’t have anything, any problem with that or anything, I think it’s good. But like I says, I mean some people can make it right through school, some people can’t.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. I ah, my brother has a University education and stuff and I don’t, it’s always kinda one of the things I wish that I had done you know, gone to school, but you know, once I started playing sports and then started working you know, it became more important to me.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And maybe someday I’ll go back to school but ah, you know I’m always kinda glad my brother did it but I wish I would have done it too you know. What did she take in school?
Robert PICKTON: Lawyer I think.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: She’s a lawyer?
Robert PICKTON: Well she ah, lawyer or um, a what do you call it, sells properties now.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh, Realtor.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Making tons of money I bet.
Robert PICKTON: Oh, I don’t know. That’s her own perogative ...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: She just does what she wants, when she wants but I don’t have no problem with that.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So was she a hard worker on the farm?
Robert PICKTON: No, she never worked on the farm.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You mean she grew on, she grew up on the farm but never worked on it?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Hum. That seems kinda bizarre.
Robert PICKTON: No. No she’s just herself. That’s what she wants, that’s what she wants so no big deal. I don’t have no problem with that. My brother bought the first machine in 19, 1974. (11:24)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Dave.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. So the year that you met Connie?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, this is the fall of ‘74.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Tell me about Dave.
Robert PICKTON: Well hard working guy.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: What should I say about him?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Is he a good guy . . .
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: . . . good brother, supportive.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Does he abandon you, tell me about that?
Robert PICKTON: No. No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I think back about my brother and I, man did we have some fights. We’re friends now, but boy I tell you growing up, someone would have looked at us and thought those guys aren’t very close. (LAUGHING)
Robert PICKTON: Well we had, we always had the odd quarrel...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah
Robert PICKTON: ...everybody does.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: But...I enjoy his company.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. What kind of things do you guys do?
Robert PICKTON: Like what?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You say you enjoy his company, like doing what?
Robert PICKTON: Working, working together.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: I like working.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So do I. What do you like about work?
Robert PICKTON: Anything. Anything in general.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Framing houses all the way up to flooring, fabricating, anything.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: (PAUSE - 15 SECONDS) Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That’s about it, (INDECIPHERABLE) there. (PAUSE)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. So Dave’s a good, good guy, you enjoy his company.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You don’t ah, you were never close to Linda, who’s your best friend?
Robert PICKTON: In which way?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Any way.
Robert PICKTON: Any good friend, what kind of friend are you referring to, girlfriend, boyfriend...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well I got some close buddies that if I was ever in a jam you know, in the middle of the night I could call ‘em and say hey man, I ah, I’m in trouble, can you come and help me out? You know, they’re, they’re friends of mine that I know that would always be there for me. You know, good, bad or indifferent. Those are my good friends, you know, four or five guys that I consider good friends. That some I’ve known for a long time, some I’ve only known for a little while but I consider them good friends. People that you know, if they were in a jam too, I would help them out unquestionable. No questions, they are my good friends.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, lots of friends.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Who’s your best friend?
Robert PICKTON: Everybody.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum
Robert PICKTON: I don’t hold anything, anything back from nobody.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Male or female.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: If they’re in a jam I help ‘em out.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Ah, I’ve even got stolen, stolen, stolen, stolen stuff off me and I go right back there and help ‘em out again.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Maybe someday they’ll help me. Even if they gonna steal from me.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And someday you’re gonna be in the same boat.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What goes around, comes around.
Robert PICKTON: You got it. (11:30)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What qul, what qualities, what things do you like in your friends?
Robert PICKTON: In which way?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well ah, some of my best friends are hard workers, they’re honest.
Robert PICKTON: Doesn’t have to be honest.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What qualities do you like in your friends, what things do you like?
Robert PICKTON: Doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter. I don’t knock anybody down.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You don’t like anybody to get down?
Robert PICKTON: No, I said , I don’t knock anybody down.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Don’t knock anybody down, I’m sorry. Well that’s a good quality to have.
Robert PICKTON: Thank you. Because someday you want to expect the same for ah, a in return.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Even if they do steal from you.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What qualities do you disrespect in people Rob?
Robert PICKTON: People stealing, but the problem is, I overlook it all the time. People I know steal.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: If you haven’t got money out there, if you don’t have money to buy it, you don’t need it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: But otherwise that, like I says, we all wake all up in the morning, go to sleep at night, which use, always in the same bed...Someday you won’t wake up.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: But the sun still comes up.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: It doesn’t come up on you, that’s the only difference.
Robert PICKTON: That’s not, no, not necessarily. It still comes up, if I’m ten feet under, it’s still gonna come up.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: That’s true, you’re absolutely right.
Robert PICKTON: It’s still gonna come up. My mom’s gonna shine.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: It’s interesting when you say stealing. I talked to people sometimes, and the word stealing has different meanings to different people. You know some people, you know if you ask what do you mean by stealing Bill um, you know some people steal money, they steal, they steal stereos, they steal TV’s. Other people steal dignity, steal respect, stealing is an interesting word, it’s an interesting concept. When you say that you disrespect people that steal, what do you mean by that?
Robert PICKTON: Well if you have tools and you depend on your, on your tools to go work and you don’t have ‘em, you can’t work.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That’s what I’m saying.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: If you don’t have your tools you can’t work.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: And the foreman says hey, that’s not my problem.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: So you gotta go out there and get ‘em again.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: And even if you leave ‘em on the job site and they’re all locked up in containers, and trailers and all that.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. (PAUSE)
Robert PICKTON: I built a house in ah, in ‘74, four thousand square foot house,...’84. ‘84.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Where’d you build that?
Robert PICKTON: Oxford and Fraser, Coquitlam. It used to be a church with a house on the side.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: So I renovated the whole thing, tore it all apart, rebuilt it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: But life goes on. I guess you just build a house and you do this and you do that (SIGH) ...you die tomorrow, another person borns.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Life goes around and around.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. Now you said to me the worst thing that ever happened to you was getting stabbed.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah. That wasn’t the worse thing.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What was the worse thing?
Robert PICKTON: Tore apart by two pigs.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Tell me about that. (PAUSE 20 SEC)
Robert PICKTON: I think it was ‘75. I was breeding a trying to breed a sow, it’s a big pig, I know she’s in heat. Anyways I brought the boar in there to breed it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: The boar turned around, didn’t want ah, didn’t want any part of it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: So then I bro, put that one back in his pen, brought another one out. I guess I never locked the pen good enough. Jumped out of the pen, both boars started fighting. I thought they were gonna kill each other. I got in between ‘em and instead as they took then they went after me. Got all slashed up. I broke them up anyways, so went down to the hospital, that was around July ‘94 ah, no ‘75.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: I went to the hospital, got myself to the hospital. Went down to get sewn up, got me half sewn up. They asked me what happened, I said I got mauled by two wild boars. They cut all the stitches apart, said we can’t do nothing for you. So they wrap me up and says go home and rest, legs up in the air for the next three weeks. Gotta let it drain. I said I can’t, I gotta operate a farm. They said you gotta have somebody else to do it, to run it because you can’t do it. Anyways that was July that’s when I crawled and got a tractor. I got power in the right leg but no power in the left leg. But is, when I have to put a brake on, I have to use my hands to push my knee down to activate the brake. I finally got to the hay field, I took the people off the hay field and put ‘em in, in the barn to look after the animals. I try the hay ah, went on the tractor there, I couldn’t stop at the store, cause I couldn’t get out of the tractor my leg was just swelled right up. It was hot that day, real hot. I was in a fever, took my T-shirt off, took all my clothes off, took my pants off, but ooze that stuff was just running down my leg, puss and everything else. But I stayed on the tractor. I got burnt. Heat from the ground, the heat from the tractor, the heat from the sky come on top of you. And you have water blisters on your back.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Mmm.
Robert PICKTON: And every time they pop, it runs all the way down your back, just like I got whipped. I kept up there. I kept it. I got burns. Every time, cause I was, I was just a cob (INDECIPHERABLE)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: The only thing I had shorts, that’s the only thing I had on. I was burnt.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Burnt. Another time is when I was thirteen years old, and I was chased by a black bear. They didn’t quite get me out of that ah, plum tree. That was in the fall.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: When I was thirteen.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: ‘78 I got mauled by big Angus bull.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That was the summer of ah, summer of ‘78.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That was a scary feeling one time there. Cause you see there was grass on the ground, solid grass came right up, right up in your feet, right in front of your eyes. And the grass goes on top of the back of the animal. Turn the other hoof and if your arm’s out there, rip your arm right off. But those are the good old days.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Those are days when I could say I got scars and I enjoyed myself. I couldn’t move for three or four days that time. I was all black and blue. (PAUSE 20 SEC)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Anymore than that I don’t know. Had my truck crushed once, I got crushed. Working on a bobcat, safety release, released, I thought I unlocked the safety but I guess I didn’t, came down and took, crushed my hard hat, I just barely got out.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Mmm. Tell me about your horse.
Robert PICKTON: Which one?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: The one that was in your trailer.
Robert PICKTON: That’s my horse, that’s my horse. Born March the 20th, 1977 4:28 in the morning. I killed it in 1981 December the 21st first day of winter. Reason, helping two girls out. (PAUSE 20 SEC) Tanya CARR, you know, no, no, no. Joanne HUNT and Tracy. They had two, two horses one was Anglo Arabian, one was a purebred Arabian. It was born on my mother’s birthday. The reason I put it down cause them horses were little mares and mine was a stallion fourteen hundred pound stallion. Their horse kicked my horse in the back leg, if the bone’s broken I can repair it, cost me five thousand, but you can’t repair a knuckle. A person can get a replacement on a knuckle and baby it. A horse can’t baby it cause that tear and twist wrong way and that’s, just adds broken again. A horse is not like that. I trained that horse to do everything, I could let that thing lay right down flat, when you get on it. I took it to shows, and that horse there, I looked after it. So I took it, I got to the, veterinarian to put it down, I couldn’t do it. Jim BRYANT to put it down. 1981 December the 21st 5:30, 5:45 pm. Somehow keep it. So I got a head mount. Took me eleven months to get it back from the taxidermist. But I’ve had about thirty, forty other horses after that, trying to get another horse to match it, match that one there, nothing.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: It was a beautiful horse. What was his name?
Robert PICKTON: (INDECIPHERABLE) Spring Golden.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What was his nickname then?
Robert PICKTON: Goldie
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Beautiful. Never replaced it I guess.
Robert PICKTON: That’s right.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Fourteen hundred pound stallion.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Probably never dreamt of ever getting hurt by those little things would you.
Robert PICKTON: Eight hundred pound fillies.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Two of them.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah. They had no place to keep them so I took them to my place but again an accident. We are here today not tomorrow, the best goes first.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. That’s what they say isn’t it.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, (INDECIPHERABLE).
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. So you used to keep Goldie on the pig farm? How, how did ah, you get into pig farming, just through your dad?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah. Many years ago.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yup. Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Many years ago.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: ‘57, ‘58. We opened up the first little butcher store, it was on 25, 2426 Pitt River Road. That’s where our house came from.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Moved. Ah, interesting.
Robert PICKTON: We moved the house there back in 1968, the fall of ‘68...when I was three years old. Stood on top of my dad’s truck playing with the steering wheel and everything else so put it in neutral and bought some (INDECIPHERABLE) little pigs, took ‘em out for a ride. Pigs are bailing out of a truck, dad is running after his truck. It was all make believe.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: When I was about two years old, two and a half I want to go back in the house because it cold out . . .couldn’t. We used to live on the side of the, side of the hill. My dad always walked with a limp, always says because walking up and down that side of the hillside all the time. So I helped there. I think in fact it was actually short.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Or the rats chew the wires or something, I can’t remember now. Just, just take the floor off the bottom to get the floor off, and we had a running spring ran into, ran into the, run into the ground.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: We had, that’s where we were getting the water from. Throw the bucket in there, cause it let’s the water out.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That’s where you get the water from. And if wanted to get a bath, have to heat the water up, you get a bath. There was [INDECIPHERABLE] nine of us in the cabin there. I think they are all dead now.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Nine.
Robert PICKTON: Nine people in the cabin there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Who were the nine people?
Robert PICKTON: (SIGHS) Stanley, my dad Leonard, my mother Louise, me, Dave and Linda. No yeah, Linda and Dave.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: No. Me and Linda, my mother was expecting Dave.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Your mother what?
Robert PICKTON: My mother was expecting Dave.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I guess I was one and half when I was there. My sister was about three.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: I think Clifford. I can’t remember all.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Who’s Clifford?
Robert PICKTON: My dad’s uncle.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Were you guy’s close? (TAKES OFF HIS JACKET)
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. Stanley, I think it was Stanley right, Stanley died in 1963. Um, hum. The last day of work.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And what happened?
Robert PICKTON: Hit by a drunken driver.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Drunk driver. Brutal eh? Did you ever drink and drive? You don’t drink right?
Robert PICKTON: No I don’t.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And did you ever when you were a kid.
Robert PICKTON: I got drunk once, I was twenty-four years old.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I was twenty-four years old.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: My own birthday. No may, maybe twenty-three. I don’t know, twenty-two to twenty-four somewhere’s around that. Cause maybe I was twenty-four cause I think it was my twenty-fourth. I’m not too sure, maybe around twenty-three, twenty-four anyways they gave me seven screwdrivers and I, and they says only orange juice. And I said that’s pretty strong orange juice. Anyways the other guy has (11:59:40) rye and seven, I see you’ve been drinking. I said you know, how about, how I drive cause I haven’t been drinking he says, you had seven orange juice. I says yeah, I know strong, a little strong. And he says orange juice and vodka. A couple of hours later you feel a little lightheaded, I smoked too when I was four years old. My mother says you want to smoke you want to be a man. So THEY give me a cigar. So I smoked the cigar and that’s the last cigar I ever had.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I used to go behind the TV and smoke. Nothing (INDECIPHERABLE)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. Who’s cigarettes were you smoking?
Robert PICKTON: Hired hands working for us.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Working for you guys on the farm. So who taught you how to butcher pigs?
Robert PICKTON: Bob KORAC.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Bob, a family friend.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: How old were you?
Robert PICKTON: Around 13 years old. He had a, he’s a Croatian guy.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Anyways, he works at the Olympic Meat Packers.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Olympic. Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: And ah, when I was 13 years old I went to the auction sale, bought the first calf, I was gonna keep this calf for the rest of my life.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And you what?
Robert PICKTON: I said I’m gonna keep this calf for the rest of my life.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: That was before I got chased by the black bear.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Anyways and I says, came back from school, sleeping with the calf all the time. Might, I might be around 12 before, I got mauled by the black bear. But I want to sleep with it, I played with the calf, everything else then I turn around and (YAWNING) oh excuse me, I’m gonna keep this calf for the rest of my life. And says, ... then ah, I came back from school two weeks later, the calf was gone, (INDECIPHERABLE) with everything else and then I asked, I says, around the house there, where’s my calf, where’s my calf? And they says maybe, maybe you’ll take a walk down the barn. No. No way, they kill animals down there. No way. No, cause it’s too and I told him not to go down there. Told him not to go down there cause they butcher anim, butcher animals down there. Anyways, I looked all over, everywhere’s else and he says maybe you want to take a walk down to the back. I said no, no, no it’s not down there, I told him not to go down there. So I says, maybe, maybe it did go down there, they said to me. Okay maybe I’ll go down there. I’ll, I’ll just sneak around back there and have a look. And I won’t go down to where they do the butchering. Anyways, there’s my calf upside down, cleaned out, butchered it. I couldn’t talk to anybody for about four days.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Hum.
Robert PICKTON: When you’re a Scorpion you have a strong sign.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Then they sent us for ah, you got X many dollars for it. You go buy another one. I said no, I want that one.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And I finally realized that we’re not here forever. We’re here for the time we’re here for.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Even with, I got this big scar here, (MOTIONS TO HIS RIGHT EYE) couple of years ago, tearing a gas tank open, gas tank exploded, blow side of face off.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: But I’m still alive. But that doesn’t make me, make me a mass murderer. But the problem is, that’s life, life goes on. Life goes on. Life goes on. I mean myself, I mean...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Rob you yourself said it earlier, everything happens for a reason.
Robert PICKTON: Everything usually happens for a reason.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: How, how did you get into butchering pigs?
Robert PICKTON: How did I get into butchering pigs?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: First of all let me ask you, you gotta go to the bathroom or anything?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, you hungry or anything like that?
Robert PICKTON: I haven’t eaten anything since yesterday evening.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Are you hungry though?
Robert PICKTON: Ah, I haven’t had anything.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Would, would you like something are you hungry? I guess I’m asking...
Robert PICKTON: It doesn’t matter.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: ...I mean I can’t read your mind.
Robert PICKTON: It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter. Myself, sometimes when I’m working I don’t even eat.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: That’s the problem I mean I don’t know, the lawyer says, I want you to tell ‘em to get, get you something to eat or whatever. I says it doesn’t matter.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Tell you what then why don’t we get you something to eat. Tell you what, if I got a sub would you want one, would you take one?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t need any, anything fancy.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. What, what do you like? I’m pretty flexible, except chicken, I don’t, I don’t eat, I’m allergic to chicken believe it or not.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t eat no lettuce or anything else, I don’t eat that stuff. No celery, no lettuce, no mayonnaise no nothing.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You want like ah, roast beef or roast pork or roast turkey. Sub on a bun.
Robert PICKTON: (INDECIPHERABLE) How did I get into butchering pigs? The most pigs I butchered in one day...thirty-four head.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Wow. Impressive. th
Robert PICKTON: That was December 23rd right through to December the 24 (PAUSE 20 SEC) I think it was ‘77.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That’s the most I did in one day. (12:09:45)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Thirty-four in one day. How did you learn to do that though. Somebody must have taught you or was that Bob? The Croatian.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, he helped me out, he helped me. And the most lamb I did one day was about twelve.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. What’s the fastest you’ve ever done one?
Robert PICKTON: There’s nothing fast about it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well once you’re good at it you’re probably take pride in how quickly you can do it. It’s like anything else.
Robert PICKTON: There’s nothing fast about ‘em, I mean the problem is you’re gonna do, you’re gonna do it. You want to do it nicely, you gotta make it respectable because people gotta eat it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: So nothing fast about anything.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Myself, I mean I have seen people butcher lambs and goats and everything else and they don’t, they don’t criticize anything, they don’t salvage anything or anything else, they just chop it all up, they don’t care how dirty it is or anything else. I like to keep everything clean.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: So the problem is, you gotta do a clean job. Cause this is for the public, this is not for (YAWNING) every Tom, Dick and Harry. So there’s nothing fast about anything, it’s just time consuming.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: If the water is not, the water temperature is not right then it takes you that much longer. Some weeks I was doing up to a hundred and fifty a week.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PAUSE 20 SEC) So I’m not born, I wasn’t raised on a farm.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Ah, explain to me how you do that.
Robert PICKTON: About what?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Give me a free lesson on where you hang them, do you, how do you kill them? How do you do it?
Robert PICKTON: Well you gotta make sure the pot just gets the right temperature water.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: That’s ah, that’s half the battle.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PAUSE)
Robert PICKTON: That’s half the battle beat, is you have the water temperature. (PAUSE 20 SEC) that’s half the battle beat. If you don’t got a temperature you don’t do anything. (PAUSE 15 SEC)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (FORDY TAKES A DRINK OF WATER) (PAUSE 40 SEC)
Robert PICKTON: (YAWNING) excuse me.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So what do you do with the water?
Robert PICKTON: What do you do with the water? Pig in there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Till the hair comes off.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Till the hair loosens off, and you strip the hair off.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That’s about it.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So it’s still alive when you put ‘em in the water?
Robert PICKTON: No. No. I got my own little handgun, gun down there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: That’s, that’s, that’s my Hilti.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Hilti Four hundred.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: When I use that. Big boars, I did some big boars.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: The biggest one I did was nine hundred and eighty pounds.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. Wow. (PAUSE 20 SEC) So was it you know, you, you told me how much you like working and enjoyed the pig farm, Rob what is it that you enjoy the most about the pig farm?
Robert PICKTON: Nothing. Can’t I ‘aint in it for the money. I want to get out.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And everybody else they just keep, you do, do this one for me, and do that one for you and...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And I just, I do ‘em for a favours for em, just to help them along.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. Um..
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What do you think, you killed ten thousand or five thousand, how many pigs did you killed?
Robert PICKTON: Me?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Closer to ten or closer to five?
Robert PICKTON: Five thousand? ...Ten thousand.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: More than ten you think?
Robert PICKTON: Possible. But I don’t know.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. Lot’s I bet eh, over all those years.
Robert PICKTON: Quite a few.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Who’s the ah, the best butcher you’ve ever seen?
Robert PICKTON: Best butcher I ever seen? Like who? Rephrase yourself, I don’t know what you’re referring to?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Like I mean, obviously you’ve been around the farm a long time, and you’ve slaughtered lots of animals yourself and prepared them for people to eat. You know, you’re not every normal Tom, Dick or Harry so you’ve obviously been around other people that have done the same thing. Some are good, some aren’t very good. Right?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Who’s the best?
Robert PICKTON: Everybody got their own certain ways of doing things.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And there’s people, well I know people comes over even hours, hours, all night long, everything else.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, like I says I don’t know who is better than the next.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: But they all, they all ah, they all butcher animals or whatever you know.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: There’s lots of people out there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Lot’s of people out there ah, killing animals and stuff. Yeah, that’s what they’re for right?
Robert PICKTON: Well I guess so. I guess so. Mmm.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Let me ask you something Rob, how do you feel about being, sittin’ in here and talking me, with me today?
Robert PICKTON: Alright.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Alright.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Now I don’t have to tell ya, ah, how big this investigation is do I?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know what’s going on.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: This is a massive investigation.
Robert PICKTON: I heard about that too.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: It’s huge. Ah, I’m gonna tell you that in all the time I’ve been in the RCMP um, I’ve never seen an investigation that has ah, unlimited people and unlimited money like this one does.
Robert PICKTON: I’ve heard that too.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, you know ah, after this investigation broke um, last week, some of the best policemen in the province were brought in and are working on this investigation, helping out. That scene up there, that, your property, it’s huge. And I don’t know if you know how many people are actually even working up there. Ah, they’ve brought in Forensic Identification people there, people that are experts in crime scenes. Alright. They’ve brought in Forensic Anthropologists know what an Anthropologist is, is that’s somebody that studies humans and the evolution of man um, so that when they’re going through ah, that scene because it’s so massive and they’re, they’re discovering all these different type of ah, not bod, call them bones I guess. That the experts are able to look at them and say well this is one thing, this is another thing, and this is something different yet. So they’ve got Forensic Identification people, they’ve got a Forensic Anthropologist ah, they might even have a Forensic Entomologist there, which is ah, a person that studies bugs and different types of bugs and different types of soil and how that gets to be the way it is. They’ve brought in experts in blood splatter, or spatter. Ah, you know, people that are trained by the FBI and ah, the best colleges in the world on how to analyze blood and stains and patterns and how they work. And ah, you know, when they look at something, like you and I might look at it and think well it looks like blood, but they’re able to say how it got there, and you know, was it a something like a, brushed, like smudged or you know, when I mean you blow your nose and it falls on the ground or was it dropped or was it gushing like, if you took a drop of water and threw it on the wall. Like these people can tell the differences between those types of stains. They’ve brought those people in. They’ve got people from the ah, Forensic Laboratories and they’re people that come in and um, are experts in seizing DNA. Um, and we’ll talk a little bit about DNA later on. Everybody has their own DNA, like you and I have different DNA.
Robert PICKTON: My mother was the same DNA as me though.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: No, it would be different.
Robert PICKTON: Is that right.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: But if they took your mom’s DNA and your dad’s DNA and put them together they’d be able to narrow down your DNA. But it would be different. Like I, I, I know of two twins ah, they’re identical twins a Wade LYMBURNER and Ward LYMBURNER. Like if you looked at them, honest to God Rob, you’d say holy jumpin’ it’s a clone. Like, well you know, how they’re doin’ those cows now, but they have their own DNA. It’s a make up of in our cell right. In our cells.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know, I don’t know nothing about that. This is like I said, I’m just a pig farmer so I don’t... (LEANS HIS HEAD ON HAND).
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, I’m gonna explain that to you so that you understand that. If you have any questions I want you to ask me okay. And say to me Bill, you know I’m not a hundred percent on what you mean by that, can you explain it to me. Um, because that’s my job is to help you understand this situation. Quite frankly, honestly, to help you understand yourself and for me to try to understand you as well in this process here today okay. So there’s a Forensic Anthropologist for the bones, Entomologist for the bugs, they’ve got crime scene people there to gather in fingerprints and evidence. They’ve got blood spatter there, analyzing, interpreting all the different blood cause there’s blood everywhere and forwarding those for analysis. Alright. They’ve got special lights out there you know, I’m gonna show you some pictures later on that ah, fluoresce different types of thing. Like you know blood looks one way in a certain type of light and it looks different in a different type of light. There’s special lights that these experts have that helps them in their investigations. Alright. And as you know that whole property is secured now. There’s policemen there ah, twenty-four hours a day, right and they’re gonna probably be there for a year.
Robert PICKTON: A year.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, what they’ve gotta do and it’s, it’s really this, and like I say, when I heard that too I said the same thing, I said a year. But what they’ve gotta do is because they’ve gotta take all the dirt down, plus it looks like, what they’re gonna do is they’ve set the first target at twenty-five feet. So they go down, they go down to the ground level right, and then down twenty-five feet.
Robert PICKTON: Really?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Like below the surface right? That’s why it’s gonna take so long. Like if this is the ground, right here...
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Right, you and I are standing on this well they’re gonna take the ground down to here but they’re also gonna down. That’s why they’ve brought in all this mil, million dollar equipment. Some of the same stuff, it is funny, we were laughing ah, that ah, the United States had over in um, Afghanistan looking for Bin Laden you know. You know, you might have saw it on the TV
Sgt. Bill FORDY: ...they had all the ground searching equipment.
Robert PICKTON: What are they looking for?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Bin Laden. When they...
Robert PICKTON: What are they looking for anyways?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well they’re looking for any evidence that you know, will help clarify your involvement in this investigation. Now it’s gonna do a couple of things. It’s gonna you know, help everybody ah, get closure to this and it’s gonna you know, help in painting a picture about what you are too. The kind of guy you are. That’s one of the things, one of the aspects to that, that investigation. Another thing that they’re doing um, and you know I don’t mind telling you is, some of the people that ah, you know are friends of yours. That’s why I was curious as to who you thought your best friends were earlier.
Robert PICKTON: I got lots of friends.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Hundreds of ‘em.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. Your kinda like me you got a lot of, lot of people that you’re associates with. I’m a little different I’ve got you know four or five good friends that I consider my, my good friends you know. Cause we have, a lot of people have a lot of friends but some people have good friends. I’m, I’m lucky I have good friends that, that I know ah, would never do anything and would always be there for me. I’m pretty lucky to have those people. One of the things that they’re doing obviously and at this, in addition to doing this monstrous job at your ah, farm, is some of the people that you, you know were associates of yours have been interviewed and um, you know, were they, and I’m not even sure if I want to use the word friends, where they were maybe were ah, people that may or may not have been close to you, now are, have a better understanding of ah, what’s going on.
Robert PICKTON: What is going on?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well you’re gonna be charged and ah, go to court and convicted of at least two of those murders. Alright. The investigation’s huge and it’s gonna identify all the other ones that you’re involved with. Or any of the involvement that you had. And you know what Rob, I’m not saying that you killed all fifty of those girls. Maybe you did, maybe you’ve killed more, maybe you’ve killed less, you know. And you’re the only person that’s gonna tell me that and you know, quite frankly I wouldn’t believe other people. The only person I’m gonna believe is you, when you make that decision. Alright. What they’re doing is talking to people that ah, that you’ve been around. People that have been associates of yours ah, over the last fifteen or twenty years. Um, with the resources and when I say resources I mean, with the people that are now involved in this and with ah, the backing of senior management and Vancouver City Police and the RCMP they now have the amount of police investigators to go out there and talk to everybody. You know, and initially people were a little bit reluctant to talk because you were still ah, out you know, you weren’t charged yet. So people think, well you know, it’s so on, he’s not gonna get charged why would I want to cooperate. And but once you know, people realized that yeah, he is being charged with this, you know, and he did do those things, now they’re cooperating, saying holy jumpin’ you know, I’d better be honest with things here. And I’ll be honest with you too, a lot of those people are expecting you to be honest here with me today. And when I said to you earlier, that decision to be honest or not is yours and nobody’s gonna take that away from you. Some of the best policemen in the province are working on this investigation. I’ve never seen anything like it quite frankly, to be honest with you. And I’m gonna talk to you about some of that evidence, about DNA because when you have DNA. And I’ll, I’ll draw you a picture here. (STANDS) Okay, when you have DNA, let me tell you about a case that I worked on okay. I used to work in Surrey, right. I was in the ah, Serious Crime Section here, in Surrey Detachment and I used to work here. And in ‘96 there was a girl and her name was Helen COOK and Helen lived up in Surrey, up in North Surrey (SITS) and one night she was home alone and a guy by the name of Peter Van OSSELAER okay, Peter, went into Helen’s house. Okay. So that Helen’s in her house, and I’ll just draw it. So she’s in her house, that’s Helen COOK. Peter goes in that house and tries to do a robbery. Okay, he tried, he tried to steal from Helen, that’s what he tried to do. And they got into an argument cause she woke up in the middle of the night and she went and grabbed a knife. Now remember how you told me that the worse, one of the worse things that ever happened to you was when you got stabbed. Now I think V(6) V(6) you’re probably talking about ------ - ------------------ right or --------- ?
Robert PICKTON: That was ah, that was one night yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Was that the stabbing you were telling me about? (STANDING)
Robert PICKTON: One yeah, yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, remember when that happened to you, like remember when you saw her grab that knife what went through your head.
Robert PICKTON: I didn’t even see her grab the knife.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Remember when you started getting stabbed and you felt that pain?
Robert PICKTON: I didn’t feel no pain really.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Anyway, Helen wakes up and Peter sees her, Helen grabs the knife and they start a struggle. And in that process Peter takes the knife, goes around the back of Helen like this, cuts her throat like that. Right. Well what he did is the way he grabbed her like this right, like this, he nicked his finger. So not only was there her blood, there was his blood. Okay. So there’s a big it’s called pooling of blood, on the stairs and then Helen runs out. She goes out of the house, she ends up dying on the front lawn and Peter disappears. He doesn’t know that Helen’s dead. Okay. What Peter did is when he ran up the stairs to get out the door, because he had blood on his finger, went up, and up the side of the wall, left blood, left his blood. So in addition to her blood, (DRAWING) her DNA on the carpet, his blood is on the wall. Alright. So we call in some experts in blood stain and crime scenes and they take blood samples from the floor, where the stabbing happened. But they, they can’t explain how this blood gets on the wall right. So they take the samples of that blood on the wall. During the course of the investigation they identify Peter as just a suspect alright, they didn’t know he was there, they didn’t, he wasn’t the primary suspect, he was one of, you know, two hundred suspects at the time. So what they did, is they followed him and they got his DNA. Alright. Cause we all have our own DNA. They sent his DNA to the lab where they had the DNA from the scene that was in the house, right on the, on the side of the wall (DRAWING) and it’s a match. So they’re able to say that blood on the wall is Peter Van OSSELAER’s. So Peter’s arrested, right and then he’s charged. Just like you’re charged now. And he’s charged with the murder of Helen COOK based on the blood on the wall. Now I go to court in New Westminster cause I was the investigator and there’s no other evidence, the only evidence is the blood. Peter Van OSSELAER got convicted of murder and got twenty-five years in jail based on a couple of cuts on his finger. Twenty-five years. (DRAWING) Convicted. Judge and jury ... gonna be in jail for twenty-five years, based on DNA. Okay. You’re DNA is, is unique to you just like Peter’s DNA, Peter Van OSSELAER was unique to Peter. Okay. Do you understand that.
Robert PICKTON: (YAWNING) Yeah, but what that’s got to do with me? (12:38)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: (SITTING) Okay I’m gonna explain that to you alright. DNA is, so if I said to you that ah, I had your DNA on this marker, right.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: How would you explain that?
Robert PICKTON: Well fingerprint.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, if you touched it with your hand yeah, that would leave DNA. So what you’re telling me is you would have had to touch it, that’s right. What else? (PAUSE 15 SEC)
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know. (YAWNING)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, let me ask you this alright. Rob. Would it be possible for your DNA to have been in this room yesterday?
Robert PICKTON: Anything’s possible.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: No, that’s not my question. Would your DNA have been in this room yesterday?
Robert PICKTON: Possible.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: How is that possible?
Robert PICKTON: Well anything can be set up or anything could be put in that’s not there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. If you have never been in this room would it possible for your DNA to be in this room? The answer’s no. Right. You have to agree with me on that.
Robert PICKTON: (YAWNING) Not necessarily. Could be set up.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. But I mean let’s in the absence of being set up, it’s not possible for your DNA to be anywhere right?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, good, I’m glad you agree with me on that because that’s an important point. One of the things that ah, I know Rob ah, through my experience is that there is always two and there is sometimes three or four or five sides to every story.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, (YAWNING) there’s more than, there (INDECIPHERABLE) there’s not always one side to a story cause there’s always two sides or more.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: That’s right. You and I were outside and you know, we saw two girls run down the road and one of them fell down. You would see what happened differently than what I would see right. Or if there was an accident you would see it different than what I would see. Because we’re different people right.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know. I’m not sure. (YAWNING)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Do you just think back to when um, you initially had your incident with ah, the girl that stabbed you. Alright. Do you remember that incident?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Now when that went to the police, there were two sides, you gave a story and she gave a story. Right?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: There’s always more than one side to a story. Right?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I don’t care what you’ve said to anybody else, about your involvement with those other girls.
Robert PICKTON: Which other girls? (HEAD ON HANDS)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Any of the girls. Just a second. (STANDS AND BRINGS OUT PICTURE BOARD) What I want you to do Rob I want you to have a look at this poster and I want you to tell me as best as you can remember. Okay, can you see it okay, can you hold it there. Hold that up for me. I want you to, let’s just walk through them, and tell me what girls that you remember have ever been out to your place. And let’s just walk through them, but we’ll start here okay and just take your time. Number one? Has she ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: (SHAKING HEAD “NO”) I don’t know, there’s so many people coming in and out of my place I don’t know.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, this is, this is real important though.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, what about this number, number two? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) If you don’t remember just say no, and if she has been then just say yeah. Number three? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) Number four, remember her, she’s got a lazy eye. Has she ever been to your place? Number five, has she ever been to your place? Her’s name Mona, Patricia, you remembering something are, you’re looking at her now, (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) okay. Number five...
Robert PICKTON: Her lazy eye, I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: She’s, she’s got a lazy eye, see her eye. Do you remember her? If she’d ever been to your place, would you remember her because of her eye, probably eh?
Robert PICKTON: I wouldn’t...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay number six.
Robert PICKTON: She’s pretty, that’s all I gotta say.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, she is pretty isn’t she. Number seven. (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) Number eight. Okay, still see it okay there?
Robert PICKTON: Hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Has number nine ever been to your house Rob? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) What about number ten?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: There’s a lot of people look.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well you know what, I only want you to tell me the ones that you’ve, that have been there. Number eleven?
Robert PICKTON: Well I seen, I think I seen her (POINTING) around somewhere’s but not at my place.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Number fourteen?
Robert PICKTON: I think I seen her around somewhere’s.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Where did you see her?
Robert PICKTON: Something but with, I don’t know if she, (INDECIPHERABLE) if she is, isn’t she a black and blond hair there. But I thought she had blond, so I thought she was blond, but maybe it’s not her. You know there’s so many people that look like her.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, well that’s interesting that you remember her though.
Robert PICKTON: Maybe I seen her around in Vancouver, if I’m right.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. Has she ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Number twelve ever been to your place? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”)
Robert PICKTON: She’s pretty too.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, she is pretty. Has number thirteen ever been to your place? No. Fourteen, you’ve seen her around but you don’t remember.
Robert PICKTON: There’s so many people...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Fifteen ever been in your place?
Robert PICKTON: Really none of them have, not that I know of.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well let’s just take our time and walk through, so you’re a hundred percent. Sixteen? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) Seventeen? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) ... has number eighteen ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: She’s pretty too.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. What about number nineteen, I’m sorry did you say eighteen had been to your place or no?
Robert PICKTON: No. I said I think she’s pretty too, I says.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Has nineteen ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What about twenty?
Robert PICKTON: She’s really pretty.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Sure is.
Robert PICKTON: And these are all missing, they’re gone.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So she’s never been to your place, twenty? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) How about twenty-one? Twenty-two? ... twenty-three ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: Was she ah, she’s a dark girl isn’t she?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: No. No, she’s ah, looks sometimes black, sometime Spanish, sometimes...
Robert PICKTON: Spanish, maybe Spanish.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Has she been to your place, I believe her name is Sarah.
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Remember her being there? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) ... Twenty-four? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) ... Twenty-five? Twenty-six? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”)Twenty-seven?
Robert PICKTON: Twenty-six looks like some like Lynn but that’s...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Lynn who?
Robert PICKTON: That one that was staying at my place.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Wish it was her? (LAUGHING)
Robert PICKTON: (LAUGHING) Hum?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Do you wish it was her?
Robert PICKTON: No, it looks, looks something like her. I’m bad for remembering faces if you don’t mind me asking. But I remember dates real clear. But ah, there’s so many millions of people out there, they look so much, so much alike and everything else you know, I mean there’s...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. Twenty-seven, ever been to your place? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) Cause I’ll tell you something, if you were the person that was responsible for any of these girls missing of course, you would remember them, let’s, you gotta agree with that. That’s only common sense. What about twenty-seven?
Robert PICKTON: Which ones am I supposed to charged for, for murder if you don’t mind me asking?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: No I don’t mind at all (POINTS TO #4)
Robert PICKTON: That one. Who the hell is she?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: We’re gonna talk about her ... twenty-eight ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Twenty-nine ever been to your place? (THROWS UP HIS HANDS) (PICKTON SHRUGS)
Robert PICKTON: There’s so many people coming in and out of my place all the time that it’s...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Thirty? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”)
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know anybody with glasses.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, think about her with no glasses on, just try to picture her with no glasses. Has thirty ever been to your place? I’m sorry has she ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, sorry I didn’t hear you. What about thirty-one, has she ever been to your place? Take your time.
Robert PICKTON: (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) No. She’s pretty.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. She sure is. Thirty-two ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t think so. She’s (INDECIPHERABLE). But I guess ah, there’s not much that we can say, I mean, myself we were, we were born in the face there and we got (INDECIPHERABLE).
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Thirty-three ever been to your place? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) ... did you say thirty-two hadn’t been there?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Thirty-three?
Robert PICKTON: No. I, as far as that goes none of them ever have been?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Thirty-four ... ever been to your place? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) ... Thirty-five ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: She’s pretty too.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. Thirty-six ... never been to your place? (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) Okay. Thirty-seven? ... Thirty-eight?
Robert PICKTON: She’s pretty too.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Has she ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: No. (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Thirty-nine. ... Look closely at it, you’re sure? (PICKTON NODS “YES”)
Robert PICKTON: She’s nice looking.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: She ever been to your place? What about forty?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Forty-one? Has forty-two ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: No. (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Has forty-three ever been to your place?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You’re a hundred percent?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Forty-four?
Robert PICKTON: No ...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Forty-five? ...
Robert PICKTON: Number forty-seven’s pretty too.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, was forty-five at your place?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Forty-six? Look carefully.
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Pardon?
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, forty-seven? Do you remember her at your place?
Robert PICKTON: No, but she’s pretty.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay just take a double check, make sure.
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Forty-eight.
Robert PICKTON: No. (YAWNING)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, you’ve just had a chance to look at all those pictures. Right? Have any of these woman, can you give me some sort of explanation as to why any of these women could have been at your place. Why another witness might say they know for sure they were at your place.
Robert PICKTON: ‘Aint no way. No way. (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: OK. Are you a hundred percent on that?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So you’re telling me that none of these women have ever been to (12:58) your place. (PAUSE 20 SEC) do you want me to leave this with you for a second, and you can wrack your brai, memory?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know none of them.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So you don’t know any of these girls? Have you ever had sex with any of these girls?
Robert PICKTON: Did I? Not that I’m aware of. No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Have any of these girls ever been alone in your car then, some witness might just say that they were in your car. You were alone with them.
Robert PICKTON: No. Cause I never had a car.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Or your truck, I’m sorry, a trans, a vehicle of transportation.
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Are you a hundred percent on that?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah. Hundred and one percent.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So, you’ve never met, you’ve never had any of these girls at your house, you’ve never had sex with any of these girls. Yes or no.
Robert PICKTON: No.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And you have never ...
Robert PICKTON: I had sex with one, the with a red head.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Which one?
Robert PICKTON: But ah, not, not there.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Who’s the red head you had sex with? (1:00)
Robert PICKTON: Um, I haven’t seen her for awhile now. Um, I’ve never seen her for awhile and , now what the hell’s her name? Roxanne, Roxanne.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: She’s a prostitute?
Robert PICKTON: She’s a working girl.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, working girl. Is she the only working girl you’ve ever been with?
Robert PICKTON: No, there’s probably a couple, yeah, a couple others.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, what are their names?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know. But I had Roxanne at my place. I took her over to the palace. But I don’t know where she is, or where she went to whatever.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So she’s disappeared?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know. But her names Roxanne.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: When did you have her over to your place?
Robert PICKTON: Mmmm, a year ago.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Who introduced you to her?
Robert PICKTON: I met her, nice person, real nice person.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: When you said you had sex with her, what do you mean, you had sex with her?
Robert PICKTON: She was at my place there, go back and forth by bus to Vancouver.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. (PUTS THE PICTURE BOARD AGAINST THE WALL) So, when, when you say you have sex with her, you had sex with her, what do you mean by that? What do you call sex? You know, one thing I know is through my experience is that different people have different definitions of sex. For some people sex is a girl getting on top of a guy, and for some it’s a guy getting on top of a girl, for some it’s you know, ah, oral sex using your mouth. When you say you had sex with Roxanne, what do you mean by that?
Robert PICKTON: Well she was nice.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Nice person, nice personality, nice everything.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: But I don’t know where she is now.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Maybe we gotta add her to the poster. Should she be on the poster?
Robert PICKTON: Well she was at my place. But I don’t know where she is.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. Um, so when you say you had, you had sex with her, right. Are you talking about like putting ah, your, what do you call your penis? Your dick, your cock, what do you call it?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know. I don’t know.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So you’re just taking about putting your, your dick inside her? In her mouth or vagina, what, what did you have with her?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know what you’re referring to.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well I guess I’m just wondering when you say sex, what are you, what are you mean when you say that well I had sex with her?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah. Ah, she gave me head.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, head. That’s one way.
Robert PICKTON: Stayed overnight. Took her back in the morning, took her to the bus stop.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, so she came back to your place.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: She gave you head, and then what happened?
Robert PICKTON: I took her back in the morning.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, but after she gave you head what happened? Tell me about that part.
Robert PICKTON: Nothing. Nothing to talk about I mean, it ah, nice. I know she phoned, she try, tried to phone me back about three months ago and she went to Abbottsford. Then I heard she was moving back to Vancouver and ...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know whatever happened.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, so what, what do you have, who’s your girlfriend now Willy or ah, Rob?
Robert PICKTON: Who’s my girlfriend right now?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You got a girlfriend right now? I mean obviously not Dinah but...
Robert PICKTON: Ah, Nancy was my, she’s moved out.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. So what kind of sex life did you guys have?
Robert PICKTON: Never.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You never had sex with her?
Robert PICKTON: Just helping her out.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Just helping her out. Okay. Um, who was the last girl you had sex with?
Robert PICKTON: Probably Roxanne.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum. So that was ah, you haven’t had sex then...
Robert PICKTON: About a year ago.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: In a year. Ah,
Robert PICKTON: About a year ago.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: And that was in...
Robert PICKTON: Maybe, maybe eight, eight, ten months ago.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: She gave you head eight or ten months and you haven’t had sex since? Okay.
Robert PICKTON: Nice person.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: She was going in for ah, she was going to go for treatment and she had a dislocated back.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah. Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: I wore her out on the dance floor, I mean, she liked dancing, everything else.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: She wanted me to dance, I don’t dance.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Yeah, you’re not a big dancer are you?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t dance.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: I’m just a regular guy.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So when, when you have a your girlfriends over and you have sex with them, what types of things do you do? Okay then, what’s your favourite way of having sex? (PAUSE 20 SEC)
Robert PICKTON: It doesn’t matter.