By Serial Killer Magazine
This is part four of the complete transcript of the eleven-hour interrogation of Robert Pickton by the RCMP on 23 February 2002, the day after his arrest. Pages 190 to 252 of 252, and the end of the interview.
The last stretch, running into the evening. Staff Sergeant Don Adam is still questioning. This is where the admissions sit - that he was the head honcho, that he had one more planned before he was caught, and that he was sloppy.
What this is. A police interrogation reproduced complete and unabridged. Nothing added, removed or corrected. The transcript’s own spelling errors, false starts and repetitions are preserved exactly as the RCMP transcriber produced them, along with the speaker labels, the action notes, the redaction markers and the page numbering, so any passage can be cited to its page.
Who holds it. A Royal Canadian Mounted Police record, Project Evenhanded, file 2001E-1388. A Canadian record, so the United States public-domain rule for government works does not apply. Crown copyright generally runs fifty years, which would place this 2002 transcript within term, and it was also used as an exhibit in R. v. Pickton.
What has not been verified. The recording was not listened to. The transcript came from a third-party host whose own right to post it has not been established. Long dashes in the original typography have been rendered as hyphens; no word has been altered.
Because I’ve got blood from eight women I can’t identify, I’ve got twelve others, that, that I can connect with you, the numbers are growing.
Robert PICKTON: Don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Did they start by accident?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Take your time. (PICKTON TAKES A DRINK) (PAUSE 20 SEC) What would happen would you just start to rage inside Willy or how do you think it happened?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Did and I don’t want, I want you to tell me the truth. Is that fair can you, look at me for a second Willy? We’ve come a long ways can you promise to tell me just the truth here and if you don’t know something can you tell me that? Cause I’m trying to understand okay, do you understand that? The first ones was it a situation where maybe you caught them trying to steal and it got out of hand or, or anything like that or was it just anger and rage took, took you over?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know. I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Let me ask you this question, was it hard to do at first, and then it just gets easier, you don’t think about it as much, it doesn’t make you feel as bad afterwards? Did you feel bad after them at first?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, I think you do Willy. Look at me for a second, I think you do. Or were you just so angry that you got knifed that, that they, they infected your body. I know you hated them. We’ve talked to tons of people who, who talked about how you felt the anger you felt and you did didn’t you. Origin, you know, they infected you, they stabbed you, they used you, they stole from you, didn’t they Willy. And you lashed back, not at everyone though right. (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) How come you spared some of them?
Robert PICKTON: They’re nice people.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And so the nice ones you let go? It’s okay, it’s okay to tell the truth Willy. Do you think that’s why you started this, was it just anger, rage.
Robert PICKTON: I’m not supposed to be talking to you right?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No. You, you don’t have to, but it’s over you know that.
Robert PICKTON: Don’t matter what I say or anything else it’s still over.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Look at me for a sec. You’re a human being Willy, it does matter.
Robert PICKTON: As I said, it doesn’t matter what I say, it’s over anyways.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But you have to live and your family has to live with what’s happened and if you’re not a sadist, if this, if you were driven by rage and anger people can understand that. Do you see what I mean? Already here today, you, you’ve given me a look, a hint that, that this makes sense, that some of these girls tried to steal from you, that they you know, that there’s some reasons. You know, Willy when, when you go to a murder site, where someone’s been killed the scene tells you certain things, alright. You’re trailer tell us that there’s been murders. It tells us what girls have been in there, it paints one picture alright. But the picture it’s almost like it’s black and white Willy, there’s no colour to it. If, if I, if you and I were investigators, and we walk into a house and there’s a woman dead there, and the man’s there and he’s got the knife in his hand, and her blood on him, and we know now that he killed her. That’s the black and white evidence that we see. But only he can sit there and explain that maybe she was cheating on him, maybe he had been drinking, maybe she goaded him into it, maybe she attacked him first, you see what I mean? Only humans, by talking to each other, can explain and put, and put colour to what otherwise is just a black and white picture Willy, and that’s what I’m asking. (PICKTON UNZIPS HIS COAT) I’m asking you for a chance to understand okay, that’s, that’s what I’m asking for. Because you’ve said some things here that to me, alright, are very, very important. You’ve told me that prior to V(6) ---------------- stabbing you, prior to that anger, that rage that you could no longer control right, could you control it or did it just take you over? At times it just took you over, people have talked about seeing that Willy. They talked about how you started hating them, do you see what I mean? It’s almost like something took control of you isn’t it? Do you understand Willy, what you did was wrong, you know that right. Like I, you know, I’m not saying it’s right, but let me ask you a question, some guys driving home and he’s a nice guy, a normal guy, but he’s had a bad day at the office, his boss has, has, has picked on him all day long. He’s worried about money, and suddenly somebody cuts him off right. You know what road rage is? And suddenly that guy jumps out of his car and goes up and starts pounding on the other car, is that Willy, because he’s a horrible, hideous monster or is it because he’s lost control. That his life got out of control maybe for, (ADAM SNAPS FINGERS) for that long. Do we judge that guy from that one thing. It sounds to me Willy that you’re like a clock, that you would be okay and then, you would just get wound tighter and tighter and what happens when we keep winding a clock tighter and tighter? Something’s got to give doesn’t it Willy. Eventually something’s got to give and this is what happened. You see you have a chance to explain that to people and you know what Willy, that’s important. It’s really important, you have a chance to help, you have a chance to help put this thing to rest. You have the chance to deal with it (20:10) yourself and at some point in your life, come to understand why you made the mistakes that you made. But like an alcoholic you can’t do that Willy, until you deal with it. You have a chance to sit with me here and tonight, and give another human being an opportunity to understand how that rage took over, took control of you. Cause you know what Willy, if you fell into a river and it was carrying you away, that stream, carrying you away, tumbling you, and turning you and if I was standing on the side, holding out my hands saying Willy, reach out to me, I’m a human being, you’re not, you’re foolish to go by without holding out your hand Willy, and taking mine. Do you understand? But I am asking for the truth, is that fair? You know, if you have been hurting these girls and killing them way back into the eighties (PICKTON SHAKES HEAD “NO”) I really would like you to tell me that. So when you tell me it started after ------ - - , I can believe that? Can I tell my investigators hey, we V(6) need to look for who doing it before Willy started, is that, cause I don’t want to waste their time Willy, is that fair?
Robert PICKTON: I’m not the only guy.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How many do you think you’ve done?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know. (TAKES A DRINK)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Would it be twenty?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’ve got an idea though Willy. You’re, you’re, you’re a guy who knows the dates of things, you’re, you know. You’ve a good idea. Fifteen, twenty, where, where do you think it is, or thirty. It doesn’t matter, just tell the truth.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well, I can put about twelve to you right now, okay, so there’s those twelve, right. Ah, shall we start from sort of the most recent and go backwards? You did Sereena, we know that Willy, agreed?
Robert PICKTON: Sereena...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Sereena ABOTSWAY, I’d have to and I apologize because I, because I’m not a front line investigator, like I’m a manager, should I get in, somebody in here who knows these girls and, and we can discuss it or would you just want to talk to me. (FORDY COMES IN AND GIVES HIM A PIECE OF PAPER THEN LEAVES) So this, this is Sereena, alright. Okay, so we know that you, you know, you did take her life, alright. Just tell me about that, let’s start, let’s take little steps alright. I think you know right now, unless their pictures are so different you’re not sure, I think you could, you could make a choice and just reach out and touch the ones that ah, that you’ve done Willy you know the ones that...
Robert PICKTON: (LAUGHING) You’re making me more of a mass killer than I am.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well how bad is it, how big is it?
Robert PICKTON: I don’ t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well is it ten, twenty.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well is it five, tell me you’ve done more than five, we’re gonna be spending millions of dollars. Well it’s more than five, we both know that. Agreed?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Willy, come on. We don’t need to play games with each other. Are you just not quite convinced yet you want to tell me the details of the killings? Is that, that’s what it is isn’t it? Come on, tell me the truth. Are you still thinking what’s in it for me.
Robert PICKTON: What’s in it for me?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: If you don’t mind me asking.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, that’s a fair question. Willy, firstly, ...
Robert PICKTON: What’s, what’s gonna happen if I say something but I shouldn’t say or what’s gonna happen to me, cause I haven’t got, I don’t have a lawyer present. I don’t know nothing, nobody just by myself.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: So I don’t know what I’m do, what I’m getting up against. But I don’t want to admit to anything.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. Firstly, you need to understand where I’m coming from okay. Is that fair?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So I’m just gonna be completely up front with you. Willy, I know that we can convict you. I know we can convict you on probably three because I haven’t even talked about some of the evidence that I have yet on some of the others, I haven’t even bothered because there’s so much evidence. Like do you understand that, and I’m not doing that to be mean to you, but I need to test your truthfulness ultimately. Does that make sense to you? Like when you decide when we, when you decide to tell me everything I need to know that oh yeah, okay, Willy’s not just claiming to have killed girls that he didn’t kill. He’s telling me the truth.
Robert PICKTON: But there’s another way to put it, if I say what, what, what you guys want to hear, you guys will pull the fences down and everything else, move out of there. Is that what you’d do?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: We no, no and the reason is this Willy. Is that I know you, alright. I know you, alright and I know that there is gonna be some full bodies buried in there, alright.
Robert PICKTON: (OVER TALKING)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pardon?
Robert PICKTON: Well I wish you luck.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’re saying they all went to the rendering plant?
Robert PICKTON: The rendering plant?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well wherever you took them.
Robert PICKTON: So if I tell you what, what you want to know, you’ll pull the fence all down.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well...
Robert PICKTON: No you would not. Yes or no, just ...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: What do you mean pull the fence down?
Robert PICKTON: Take the fences all down, and ...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Go away?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well first...
Robert PICKTON: You want, you want me, you got me already.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, I got you, you’re absolutely right.
Robert PICKTON: So I’m just, I’m asking from your point of view, yes or no. I want to be straight.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, then let me be completely straight with you. Absolutely no. No. Willy I’m not prepared to, to make a trade...
Robert PICKTON: Okay. Well why don’t you go to the higher up and let me know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, no. I’m as high up believe me, I’m way too high up to be sitting here.
Robert PICKTON: No, I mean, no I meant, I meant the, I meant...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I am high up.
Robert PICKTON: Okay. (OVER TALKING)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I’m in charge.
Robert PICKTON: Because if I tell you everything you want to know, you guys back out.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No. See it can’t happen, it’s not gonna happen. Willy I’m, I can’t, I’m not gonna negotiate. But here’s what, here’s, here’s the way it goes alright. This statement that you’re giving here, this talk we’re having is all admissible in court.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And what would make it inadmissible in other words, what would make it of no value is if you and I make a deal. I don’t...
Robert PICKTON: I don’t want a deal.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...no, no, no.
Robert PICKTON: You have put a lot of fences on (OVER TALKING)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No but you’re not, you’re not hearing me, you’re not hearing me.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That’s of no value to me because it’s not evidence anymore, alright.
Robert PICKTON: No, then I’m talking about going to court or whatever.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: What and pleading guilty?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: To how many?
Robert PICKTON: Whatever charged with.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, no, no. No because I’m not, I don’t, you mean two?
Robert PICKTON: No. I didn’t say two.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you’re only charged with two right now.
Robert PICKTON: Two right now.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Like firstly...
Robert PICKTON: It is, you says, you says, it’s more but...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well yeah.
Robert PICKTON: But I’ll finally admit to everything if you pull the fences down.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well, but I want to firstly I’m, we’re not, I’m not making a deal. Right, can you understand that?
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: This is...
Robert PICKTON: Okay well I just want, I just want to ...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, no but I want, I want to get a clear picture in my mind what you’re saying to me.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But I am not, like understand, this is not a negotiation to make a deal. But I guess what I’m saying is, are you talking about twenty girls, are you talking about thirty, are you talking about what?
Robert PICKTON: I’m talking about everything on my behalf.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well but, Willy, what kind of numbers are we talking about?
Robert PICKTON: Your going to every, everything, everything die.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pardon.
Robert PICKTON: And then you let everything die off and you...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I told, I told you that’s a non-starter.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. But let me ask you a question, alright, because I’m not gonna deal on how things will go in court, I’m not gonna deal with how you know, do the investigation, I’m not, like I...
Robert PICKTON: Okay...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Do you know...
Robert PICKTON: I mean, I, I’m only asking. There’s no problem, no, no harm in asking.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Do you remember yeah, no, no, no I know. But I, but I need you to understand...
Robert PICKTON: (OVER TALKING) I just want to like to get, get everybody else’s lives back together again and get everything back to rest.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But then why don’t you do what’s right, for you and everyone else and, and for Nancy and your brother, and allow people to come to an understanding by at least telling me alright, Don there’s twenty-five, there’s thirty, what, what is it Willy? Give me a number so I have an idea of what you’re saying.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But you can’t lie to me. Don’t bother lying to me.
Robert PICKTON: I’m not lying to you.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, no, no I know, I see that. How many?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t want to negotiate like that right at this stage. Cause then the problem then is I’ll be committed to something.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I’m, I’m not negotiating like...
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I’m ...
Robert PICKTON: Cause I’m, I’m like you I’m just asking.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Willy, you’re, you’re negotiating Willy, I’m not negotiating.
Robert PICKTON: I’m asking you that, that’s all I’m asking, I was only asking you, that’s all I am.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, I know. Okay, but you understand I’m not dealing, I’m not prepared to deal you know. I am prepared to tell you this.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is that no one is gonna be making a deal with, with ah, ah, Lynn right, to screw you if you choose to tell the truth here tonight. So that’s a, that is a win for you, that’s one win but that has nothing to do with, with ah, you know, deals in court or deals on, on evidence or what have you, like on, on the search. But it is a win Willy and never think it isn’t, alright. Because when you’re caught between a rock and a hard place, like you are, sometimes you can’t have ...
Robert PICKTON: But anyways like I says, think it over.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I don’t have to think it over.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Because Willy, here’s our situation, alright. Is that I know we can move ahead and collect the, the evidence, alright. The reason ...
Robert PICKTON: But you’re, everything will go back to back to normal and everybody else will go, will go to their own place where they were before and start all over and, and so on and so forth. But the problem is if you like I, I know all numbers, everything else so but that’s here nor there. But ...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But let me ask you, let me ask you a question, alright, just I want to clarify your knowledge base. I wasn’t there but years ago, when you guys were, had those trucks buried.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: The trucks was never buried.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well cars or whatever it was.
Robert PICKTON: (OVER TALKING)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: A yellow Mustang or something.
Robert PICKTON: A yellow Mustang.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Something, I don’t know Willy, here’s the point...
Robert PICKTON: There was a couple of Ford pick-up trucks.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: And they were put in, underneath a hog field pile, because somebody else was dismantling them over there and that was story beginning, start to finish.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. They said your memory was so good Willy, that you walked into that field of muck, and ... (ADAM STANDS UP)
Robert PICKTON: It wasn’t muck, it wasn’t muck, it was a hog field.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, but you walked over ...
Robert PICKTON: And told them exactly where everything is yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And said twenty-five feet down...
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You know whatever, what did you say to them?
Robert PICKTON: No, it’s underneath that pile there, there’s some over there, and some over there, and some over there, and that’s it.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: (ADAM SITS DOWN) Do you have that capability to do that with these girls?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Why not?
Robert PICKTON: Cause you’re barking at the wrong tree.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’re saying you, you didn’t dispose of them in there.
Robert PICKTON: (INDECIPHERABLE)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Would there be any my question would be this then, other than your word, other than your word is there, how could you prove to me that that they’re somewhere else, like how would prove to me that they’re, how can you help me find them, that’s my question?
Robert PICKTON: Can’t.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Then how can you explain to me that, that’s possible.
Robert PICKTON: You gotta take my word for it.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well Willy, how can we take your word for it? You won’t tell me the numbers whether it’s twenty, thirty, you know.
Robert PICKTON: I just gonna blind folded here. Cause I have no lawyer present, no nothing.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No.
Robert PICKTON: And like I said, I’m getting nailed to the cross.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well yeah, you’re but let...
Robert PICKTON: And the problem is I mean, I’m just only asking, it’s just something to think about.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, you want to negotiate...
Robert PICKTON: Yes.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But Willy you gotta look at the position you’re in.
Robert PICKTON: I know I’m in, I’m know I’m looking at the position I’m in. I’m burying myself deeper than I even have, ever have.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You tell me what’s the difference between us pulling together twelve charges against you and you’re admitting to twenty, like what’s the difference, other than to the families.
Robert PICKTON: Well.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, no but I’m asking you, I’m not, I want just...
Robert PICKTON: Save, it’ll save a year of investigation, right (TAKES A DRINK).
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But how?
Robert PICKTON: You said you’re gonna dig the whole place up.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Well start digging. (LAUGHING)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well we will.
Robert PICKTON: (LAUGHING) I mean interesting.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well Willy here’s what we get to, alright.
Robert PICKTON: I know, I know, I know, I know the situation I’m in.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, you’re screwed, alright.
Robert PICKTON: Should not be be talkin’ to you but the problem is again.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No
Robert PICKTON: I’m screwed.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’re screwed.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah. But, but...
Robert PICKTON: That’s here nor there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But, but let’s just let’s just talk about this like two gentlemen, alright.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’re smart, you’re not overcome, you’re, you’re as cagey as a fox Willy so let’s just...
Robert PICKTON: Well I don’t know about that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I think you are.
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know about that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, know this.
Robert PICKTON: I just want to get everybody else, to get back to, back to, back to, their life back again.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That’s fair and, and I want to do what’s best for this investigation. So I want you to tell me the truth, I want to know how bad the situation is, I want to know what other killers I’m looking for.
Robert PICKTON: Right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’ve told me it’s not just you, agreed, there’s more out there. Okay.
Robert PICKTON: More…about that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Do you know any others, like is there other people that you’ve worked with that you know about?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No.
Robert PICKTON: No you’re, you gotta look for a different territory.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. Without giving numbers how big a chunk are we talking about? The truth Willy, don’t, don’t undersell me, don’t, is that fair. How big a chunk? Where would I draw this line, in half?
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know, see I haven’t looked at it that much.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well just numbers, you know there’s forty-eight numbers there.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. There’s no doubt in my mind you know, you know all of the girls you killed. Agreed.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I mean, you don’t know them by name, but they tell me you don’t take drugs, is that true or not true. . .
Robert PICKTON: Hmm.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: . . . They tell me your not a druggie. Alright, so you’re not and you’re not a drinker, so when you took these girls lives you were sober right, agreed. So you know, like you know, so you know how many agreed. It’s not like you’re searching for a number.
Robert PICKTON: Well, what do you want me to say?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well if you’re telling me Don, I don’t know how many I killed, if you really, you know, Willy I don’t believe you. Because you, I don’t think killing is not like, how many times you’ve been to the A&W do you see what I mean? You know how many times you’ve killed, I mean everyone of those kills is gonna be a special moment in your life.
Robert PICKTON: Umm, no.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How do you mean, I don’t even understand that, you mean like it’s just nothing.
Robert PICKTON: No, not really. Nothing. I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: See I need to understand that. Like were they, when you killed these girls was it a big deal to you or was it just like killing them, one of the pigs, or somewhere in the middle or, or what like I’m trying to understand.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. (PAUSE) Well I don’t know, don’t know what to say neither.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Let me ask you this question Willy. Did you ever kill any of them that you regretted, that you actually thought after do you know what, she was, she was a nice girl, I should have maybe let her go. Did you ever have those kind of thoughts?
Robert PICKTON: (PAUSE 30 SEC) What do you want me to say?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: The truth, that’s what we agreed to talk about.
Robert PICKTON: But the problem is like I asked you a question already and you didn’t, you says you can’t do what I tell you right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Cause I can’t negotiate, here’s the story Willy...
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...if I negotiate with you for you to tell me how you killed these girls, where you killed them, how many you killed you know, what you did with them, alright. If I negotiated a deal, some sort of a deal, then nothing we say is admissible in a court. Alright, so it’s not worth getting, like it’s not worth getting. (PICKTON TAKES A DRINK) Everything we’ve dealt with here today, as far as I’m concerned, there’s been no deals, we certainly you know, you’re, you know, you would like to make deal agreed, we know that. But I’m telling you I can’t make a deal.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright, even if I wanted to make a deal, I’m not gonna make a deal, alright. But that doesn’t mean that there aren’t wins for you in telling the truth. Alright. So let’s just talk about what I can talk about for a second. And you need to make a decision that that makes sense to me, is that fair Willy?
Robert PICKTON: Well,..
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Firstly, if what you’re telling me is true, that Dave is not involved in this...
Robert PICKTON: That’s true.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. Dave has talked about taking a polygraph test, do you think he’ll take it, that he wasn’t involved in the killing?
Robert PICKTON: He was not involved in anything.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: And I’ll swear on that, I meant...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Then why is Dave saying that...
Robert PICKTON: He’s protecting me.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright, so he’s, now are you protecting Dinah or did you tell Dave that Dinah had killed some of the girls.
Robert PICKTON: That’s true.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That’s true you told Dave that, or it’s true that she did kill some of them?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, it’s true I told Dave that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And is it true that Dinah did kill some of them? Please tell me the truth.
Robert PICKTON: I gotta talk to her here first. I have to. I don’t want to say something wrong. But if you want me to I’ll bring everything out but I gotta talk to her first.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But what you’re, but what you seem to be saying to me, alright...
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...is, is that ...
Robert PICKTON: I don’t want to commit myself to her or anything else.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: To what she’s done.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, okay.
Robert PICKTON: Because I won’t tell, want you to see what, see what’s gonna happen first, see what she wants to do. But I ...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But what choice would she have I mean she really only has two choices right.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, I know but...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: One would be to own up that she killed some of the girls with you. I could take, would I, let me try and understand this Dave.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Either you guys killed some of the girls together, alright. Or are you telling me that even without you she killed some of the girls?
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, that’s the one, okay. So you don’t want to talk about that. Alright, let’s put that aside and you would want to what, discuss with her, how she feels about you talking about that?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I, I don’t think she’s gonna say well, go ahead and tell them the truth.
Robert PICKTON: Why not?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I guess cause she’s guilty of murder then.
Robert PICKTON: No, not necessarily.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well then I gotta, I don’t, I don’t understand that.
Robert PICKTON: I mean myself, I just got, like I say I just to talk to her in person.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But is it sort of one of these situations, what you’re saying is, am I gonna take the blame for everything, including stuff she’s done. Is that, that’s what you’re telling me right, that’s what you got to negotiate with her, not with me. Now you gotta know Dave, that from my...
Robert PICKTON: Dave...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Or Dave, sorry.
Robert PICKTON: You said it twice.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Do you, do you want me to call you Willy or Rob, which...
Robert PICKTON: Don’t matter.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pick one for me.
Robert PICKTON: Don’t matter, don’t matter.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: What do your friends call you? Both or...
Robert PICKTON: Whatever.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I’ll, I’ll call you Willy. I’ve known you as Willy but that’s...
Robert PICKTON: But I’m not gonna, I’m not gonna walk anyways, and I’m not gonna run.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, good.
Robert PICKTON: But the problem is I mean, everybody has to get their life back together again, and put everything to rest.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But Willy you gotta say, say we’re cops together.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And Dinah has killed some of these girls on her own, I mean really...
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No but we can’t just let her go, you gotta agree with that right.
Robert PICKTON: No comment. I’ll take the fall for anything else.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Are you gonna take the fall for Lynn too, because that’s, that...
Robert PICKTON: If that, if that’s what it comes down to, but the problem is like I said, I gotta speak to Dinah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. Let’s put Dinah aside then, we’re not gonna talk about Dinah, let’s talk about Lynn. Lynn betrayed you, after you saved her life, is that true, that you saved her life twice. I think it is, isn’t it.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: She was blackmailing you.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And trust me when I tell you that if you choose not to talk about what she’s done, they will end up making a deal with her and she’ll walk away scott free and probably try and get some of the reward money for heaven sakes. So I don’t see where you owe her any loyalty. Would you agree with me on that?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Agreed.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So, one of the things that you talk about what, what’s in it for you, would be to finally pay her back for all the betrayal she’s done. Like you’re in a good, powerful position there.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright, you agree with me? Makes sense doesn’t it?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, but I still got to talk to Dinah first.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Let’s just travel one more road though, to make sure we understand each other.
Robert PICKTON: I do.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is that if you lie about anything.
Robert PICKTON: I’m not, I’m not, I have nothing to lie about. I mean I’m nailed to the cross. I’m the head honcho right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, yeah, you are.
Robert PICKTON: So...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But...
Robert PICKTON: ...what have I got to lie about.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you might lie to try to...
Robert PICKTON: You either, you got me, you got me, you got me and ...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: ...I’m nailed to the cross so.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah. I agree with you.
Robert PICKTON: There you are.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But my question is...
Robert PICKTON: But there will be.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...are you, are you...
Robert PICKTON: A lot of people coming down.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: With you?
Robert PICKTON: A lot of people.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well now that’s more interesting.
Robert PICKTON: But that’s here nor there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Ex, explain that to me.
Robert PICKTON: Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I can’t do that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Why not Willy?
Robert PICKTON: No, no...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you gotta give me some hints so I know what I’m talking about.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well give me some hints then, what...
Robert PICKTON: Well there’s a lot of the other people involved too. But otherwise, like I said, I’ll just take the fall.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Let me ask you a question alright.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: We have had a report about a thing called blood spot out there.
Robert PICKTON: What?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Blood sport. We’ve, we’ve had a story about ah,...
Robert PICKTON: What’s that?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: People going out there and that there was a group of you guys that would, would kill the girls.
Robert PICKTON: (LAUGHING)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is there any truth to that.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Never.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. Are there other guys that were involved when, when some of these girls lost their lives, is that what you’re telling me?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Just you. You and, and, and, what, whatever the other girl.
Robert PICKTON: There’s other people involved but, but that’s here nor there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, give me ah, without naming names, just give me a picture of how that comes together, so I can understand where, what I’m thinking, I’m not following you. So don’t name names, but just give me a picture of how that comes together.
Robert PICKTON: Well, there’s other people involved.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, but Willy, I, your, I’m confused.
Robert PICKTON: I know. I know that because the problem is this is way over your head and I, like I said I’m not gonna, I’ll take the fall for everything, but the problem is I’m the head honcho and you got me now.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: And I got to make sure and go from there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Are you hungry at all?
Robert PICKTON: Well, I don’t deserve to eat.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Oh, will you stop that. What can I get you?
Robert PICKTON: Nothing.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pork sandwich?
Robert PICKTON: Nothing. I don’t deserve to eat.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright, I have to go to the washroom, do you have to go the washroom?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’re ah, what a guy. Can I get you another Minute Maid to drink? Alright, you stay here, don’t touch anything, I’m gonna go have a whizz, I’ll come back, is what you’ve told me here tonight, the truth so far.
Robert PICKTON: Well, like I told you, did I ever lie to you yet? I mean, I’m the only, I did tell you a few stories...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Which ones were those?
Robert PICKTON: I told you a few stories but the problem is you got me right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I’m the head honcho, you know that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: So.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is it true when you tell me that Dave is not involved in any of the killings.
Robert PICKTON: Dave’s not involved in anything.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is it now, and don’t lie to me, promise me ...
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, is it true that ah, when you say that the killings started after V(6) ah, ------ - -- ---------------- stabbed you, I kinda got the sense that maybe they started a bit before that. 20:39:47
Robert PICKTON: At this stage, no comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. But definitely afterwards. (PICKTON NODS “YES”). Okay. I got it. Let me step out and have a, a whizz, ah, can I get you anything. Okay. I’ll be back in just a couple of seconds. (LEAVES ROOM 11 MIN 55 SEC) let me grab a water Willy. I mean do you want water?
Robert PICKTON: Is the washroom right here?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, there is. Come on with me. It’s ah, 8:52 I’m taking Willy to the washroom. (PAUSE 4 MIN) (FORDY PUTS 2 WATER BOTTLES IN THE ROOM)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Go ahead, get back into the room. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, they grabbed us some water. Good, have a seat. It’s ah, 8:56 and ah, Willy just went to the washroom, ah, I have to account Willy, (PICKTON YAWNING) for the conversation, we had outside the room ah, you admired the architecture and ah, I agreed with you. There was no other conversation was there.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. And obviously I didn’t threaten you or promise you anything, we didn’t have any discussions.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Let me ask you a question Willy, alright. I’ve told you I’m not prepared to ah, negotiate.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But my partner...
Robert PICKTON: I understand what you’re saying.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, my partner Jim HUNTER said something to me which, which I put to you.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is he did say that, obviously if you choose to explain to us what you did, and why you did it, and how you did it, if that makes sense, it could change the, the way we investigate the farm. Do you see what I mean?
Robert PICKTON: Run that by me again.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well, if you choose to explain what you’ve done, right. How many you’ve killed, how you killed them, what you did with them, then that’s an avenue of investigation we can follow up and if we, you know, then we would conceivably by good investigation, not have to be at the farm as long. And that’s, that’s just logical right, does that make sense to you?
Robert PICKTON: A little bit, but that’s not what I asked for is it?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: What did you ask for?
Robert PICKTON: Um, if I, cause you got me right?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I’m the head, head guy right?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well let me ask you a question.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: My eyes open, and I’m fucked anyways so...I’m listening.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: The only problem is...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Robert, you killed Sereena and Mona, agreed?
Robert PICKTON: I won’t admit to anything yet.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well it’s a simple question.
Robert PICKTON: Okay, but (INDECIPHERABLE) I won’t admit to anything yet, but, but go ahead.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright, so that’s the girl, that’s the, the one with the inhaler.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: I won’t admit to anything yet but, but go ahead.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But did, my question is real cut and dried. Did you kill them by yourself or was Dinah involved in them, in those two?
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Which kinda tells me that she was involved.
Robert PICKTON: Don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well...
Robert PICKTON: At this stage.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Don’t say that, you do know but you don’t want to say. Is that fair?
Robert PICKTON: Don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Because if you didn’t know, then what happens later when you decide to tell the truth, and people say...
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...well you.
Robert PICKTON: Every, everything will, like I says, my word is my word.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Now you know me. But there’ll be other people coming down too.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, without naming names, give me an idea of, of how they’re gonna come down, so I can understand.
Robert PICKTON: There will be other murderers or whatever, other people, other, other people charged, but that’s here not there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Men or women?
Robert PICKTON: A man.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Man, one other man.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Now, this guy that talked about you, you, you made a comment that I got stuff on him, do you remember making that...
Robert PICKTON: I got, I got lots of stuff on him, yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is that, that, I take it that’s not murder stuff that’s just what, thefts, or other ...
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, other stuff, yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: It shocked you Willy, didn’t it, that he, . . .
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: . . . that he chose to ...
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...to say, tell what you’ve told him. Why do you think he did that, like just...
Robert PICKTON: Just to hear himself talk.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But you gotta admit that you were careless to, to have told the number of people you told what you were doing. Like that wasn’t, in hindsight, you gotta admit that wasn’t a smart thing to do.
Robert PICKTON: What’s that? Tell who?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: To tell, well I mean I’ve got the statements right,...
Robert PICKTON: To, from who? A lot of it is all a lot of it is all gossip.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well no but some of it is directly, things you have told them. I agree with you, some is, we’re getting a lot of that sort of gossip.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, a lot of it, lot, a lot, a lot of gossip here.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, but a lot, you gotta admit that you, you’ve made mistakes.
Robert PICKTON: There is a lot of gossip here.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But you gotta admit to me you’ve made mistakes, you’ve ended up telling people you shouldn’t have told.
Robert PICKTON: A lot of gossip here, again a lot, a lot of stuff came from Lynn.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, oh yeah, I know that. I know all of those stories.
Robert PICKTON: That’s where all the gossip come from and went on and on and on. That’s where it come from.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Do you think ultimately we’ll be charging Lynn, when you tell the truth? Like...
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, probably, yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: In taking part or in simply knowing that you were doing it?
Robert PICKTON: In both. Even more than that too, that’s only part.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Was there any ah, were there any snuff films made or anything like that Willy?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Nothing like that.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is that true?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Nothing shocks me right, I mean I’ve been a cop for almost thirty years.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: When you finally open up are we gonna be talking about torture and stuff like that or?
Robert PICKTON: No. Nothing like that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: When you finally decide to talk about this, are you, do you know why you were killing them, like in your own mind, do you know what it was? (PAUSE 5 SEC) Like do you think you understand what happened, why you ended up killing these girls, like do you, you know you’re intelligent...
Robert PICKTON: No. I mean I won’t ah, no comment at this stage.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is that right.
Robert PICKTON: Cause I gotta talk to Dinah first. (PAUSE 10 SEC)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: When, and I realize you know, I realize your position right.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: When you look at my board here.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright, take, just take a look at it.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, I looked at it a couple of times, yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How many do you think you recognize? Like if we, if you were free to talk right now, how many could you reach out and touch?
Robert PICKTON: You can touch ‘em all. (PICKTON POINTS AT PICTURE BOARD)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, but I mean, that, that you killed.
Robert PICKTON: You make me more of a mass murderer than I am.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you’re saying you haven’t killed forty-eight.
Robert PICKTON: Hum?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But you’ve killed women that are not on here too?
Robert PICKTON: Forty, what, what are you...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well there’s forty-eight right?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. So my question you know, you, like you said, Don, don’t make me more of a mass murderer than I am, agreed?
Robert PICKTON: That’s right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, but my question is, is it’s become clear to me that there’s, there’s women that you’ve, you have killed that aren’t on here, you would agree with me on that, that...
Robert PICKTON: No, no, no, no comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Why not, why not just, why not tell me the truth.
Robert PICKTON: Because if they’re not on there, I’m not charged for it right?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, but what’s the difference between two or twenty or it makes no difference to the sentence, I mean.
Robert PICKTON: I could say a hundred and fifty too.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pardon?
Robert PICKTON: I could say a hundred and fifty too, but it’s not any truth involved there neither, right?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, no and I don’t...
Robert PICKTON: I mean, I mean myself I mean ah, we’re, we’re gasping for something that’s not there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, explain that to me.
Robert PICKTON: Like if you had a hundred and fifty on there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Or you had ten on there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Just these are the ones here you’re concentrating on.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: Right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Now whatever other ones are not on there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I’m not charged right?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That’s right. But you’re only, you’re only charged for two that are on there.
Robert PICKTON: That’s right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I mean you will be charged with more obviously. Right.
Robert PICKTON: I’ll, probably, maybe.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I can see yeah. Will Willy...
Robert PICKTON: Right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I mean the DNA’s pouring in. But you see, I mean I, I gotta tell you, I’m sitting here thinking well why am I even having this conversation with you.
Robert PICKTON: That’s what I’m asking you, I mean myself, I want to ask you, I want ask you the same thing. But the problem is ah, like, like I says I’m the head honcho.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, okay, but when you say head honcho like...
Robert PICKTON: I’m the head guy.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So without you, none of these murders would have happened, is what you’re telling me. Well is that true or would the other guy that you haven’t told me about....
Robert PICKTON: No. No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Without you he wouldn’t have killed anybody.
Robert PICKTON: No, no.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Is he a decent guy?
Robert PICKTON: No comment again on that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Biker.
Robert PICKTON: No comment again.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Am I close though?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Or you don’t want to talk about it?
Robert PICKTON: Don’t want to talk about it. (PAUSE 10 SEC)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So.
Robert PICKTON: There’ll be guns involved too.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How do you mean guns?
Robert PICKTON: Well like I said, there’ll be guns involved too.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, but you need to explain that.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I need to understand that more.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, but there’ll be I mean, myself if, if I commit alright, I mean there will be, there will be at least one extra gun will be involved.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That you’ve used to kill a girl?
Robert PICKTON: Mmmm, um, on other things. Yeah, that’s over your head, like I said...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Oh, wait a second, are you, are you hinting to me there’s, could be some dead guys involved in this too?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How many?
Robert PICKTON: Well like I said, I’m nailed to the cross right now right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And I’m just asking what do you think if...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Are, are you, if I was, are you hinting that, like they’ve always thought that maybe the Angels used your place...
Robert PICKTON: No, no, no, no...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Not Angels stuff.
Robert PICKTON: No. No. No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But other stuff.
Robert PICKTON: Other stuff yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But how many? Like one, ten, five, what do you think?
Robert PICKTON: Ah, one anyways.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That you did or someone else did?
Robert PICKTON: Somebody else did.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And you were there.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I mean, how do you know that he did it? I don’t understand.
Robert PICKTON: Cause he did.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And what, brought the body to you to get rid of.
Robert PICKTON: Didn’t.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pardon?
Robert PICKTON: And he didn’t.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I’m sorry. What.
Robert PICKTON: He, he didn’t.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Didn’t bring you the body?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Hum, well we’re certainly travelling Willy.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, you are. You’re minds going around isn’t it.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I hate to say it but really, the murder of some guy which is probably going to be some drug thing or whatever, really doesn’t, is irrelevant to me compared to...
Robert PICKTON: Right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...resolving this crime.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. But again, first thing before I say anything.. .
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: I gotta talk to Dinah in person, private.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well she’s in Ontario.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah. She, she’ll be coming out here anyways.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Go ahead and?
Robert PICKTON: And then I’ll go from there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. Where have we got to tonight then, what, we got to the fact that ...
Robert PICKTON: But only problem is like I says to you, you’s gotta turn the farm back over. Cause you got me right. I’m the head guy. Dave hasn’t, there’s nothing on Dave. Dave is noth, nobody.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Dave wants to protect you though, let’s be honest, he’s been running around trying to spread stories and ...
Robert PICKTON: I know that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...cover you off and all that.
Robert PICKTON: I know that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You, you know like, ...
Robert PICKTON: I know that too.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I mean , you know.
Robert PICKTON: I know that too.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, it’s like that whole story about the inhaler.
Robert PICKTON: I know that too.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I mean...
Robert PICKTON: But that’s beside, that’s re-elevant, that’s re-elevant, that’s re-elevant.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Did Dave pressure you to tell ‘em whether you were involved in the murders?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How did you end up telling them that ah, Dinah had forced you to do one, or forced you to get rid of the body? How did that conversation with them come up?
Robert PICKTON: Well he’s my brother.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. Go ahead.
Robert PICKTON: Let’s leave it with . . . that way there. I’m losing my brother and he’s losing me. I had a good life with him for about fifty years.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: He’s your younger brother eh?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Do you love him?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Are you close with him?
Robert PICKTON: Very.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Now people talked about him sort of bossing you around and, and ..
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, that’s good. I like that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: It doesn’t bother you? Or do you get angry sometimes?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, that’s alright.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I used to fight with my brother too, so I know what that’s all about. But we do have information on, on ah, Dave picking up, bringing girls out.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well ...
Robert PICKTON: Guarantee it. Swear on that. I’ll swear on that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: It’s just you?
Robert PICKTON: He, ah, just me?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you, you never been involved with the girls with him, . . .
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: . . . even just sexually?
Robert PICKTON: No. Nothing to do with Dave.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Now let me ask you a question my investigators asked me.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Willy, you didn’t do a good job of cleaning up the girls blood. Like you gotta agree with me, I mean....
Robert PICKTON: That’s right, I was sloppy.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yes, you were, that sums it up. (LAUGHING)
Robert PICKTON: That’s what I am, I’m sloppy.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How could Dave not see that?
Robert PICKTON: Cause he’s too busy. Let’s leave it like that way there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Did you change that carpet because there was girls blood on it, the old ah, the carpet that was in...
Robert PICKTON: No. Because I had carpet like this in there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And I wanted to go lino because it’s hard to keep it clean. But that was when Allison’s blood was in there. Allison, Allison, what do you call that? V(6)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Ah, yeah, ah, ----------------- V(6)
Robert PICKTON: -- ------------- was...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, no you’re right her. Now but I mean.
Robert PICKTON: And there’s my blood on there too.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, that’s right. Okay, but I can tell you that the DNA that we got off of ah, ah, Sereena ABOTSWAY’s stuff, that wasn’t your blood, that was just DNA from you touching the same stuff as her. It looked like she was staying with you for a couple of days.
Robert PICKTON: Who?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Ah, ABOTSWAY, well her in, her inhalers alright, so there’s the one inhaler that, that you left inside your house, that was in your bedroom
Robert PICKTON: I don’t know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You don’t remember is what you’re telling me. I take it that a number of these girls came and stayed with you for a couple of days?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Are you sure, cause I’m hearing, I’m hearing that did happen.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: With everything that was going on Dave, how do you think you managed...
Robert PICKTON: Dave?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Oh, I’m sorry Willy, with, with everything that was going on how did you, do you think you managed to avoid getting caught for so long? (PAUSE)
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How long you got, it’s just bad police work or you know like what?
Robert PICKTON: Carelessness on my behalf.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That’s how you did get caught you got careless. But Willy, you gotta admit that if you were an investigator you’d go well, clearly...
Robert PICKTON: Well...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...you used the, you used those
Robert PICKTON: Tit for tat more or less.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You used the, yeah, but (INDECIPHERABLE).
Robert PICKTON: I’m leaving you in a bind I know that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I’m just you know....
Robert PICKTON: I know that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You know, things are a little unclear still eh.
Robert PICKTON: I did know that too.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: See cause one of the things worries me alright, say, say you and I sit down tomorrow, the day after and decide to talk about everything. Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Like I said, it’s something to sleep on.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Oh yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I’m not, I’m not telling you not to sleep on it.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But my question is this, everything I see about you Willy, tells me that a) you’ve got a good memory, probably a great memory.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I believe you know the details of each one of the murders that you’ve committed and that’s important to me, just hear me out.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That’s important to me Willy, because when you choose to tell your side of the story, right.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’ll have the details, you’ll have all of that stuff.
Robert PICKTON: Pager.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, I know, it’s always going off. (ADAM TURNS OFF PAGER) And that’s what I’m interested, ultimately I’m interested in you telling me the story of each and everyone of the deaths of these girls. Right. Obviously.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And the disposal of them. Right. But you tell me, what can I take back to my investigators so that they’re not gonna think I’m a loon. Like what, what can I take back to them to say well, Willy would really like us to show, shorten our search of, of the farm. Agreed? That’s what you’d like.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, tit for tat more or less, but I mean that’s life, life goes on.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, yeah, it will, I mean...
Robert PICKTON: (OVER TALKING) myself, I mean I say, if you wish to be there for a year, be my guest.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You know, so my question is ...
Robert PICKTON: And if you wish, if you wish to dig the whole property up be my guest.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And if you want to dig the whole property but you’re still not gonna find nothing.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright, that’s your position.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And my question is...
Robert PICKTON: I don’t, I don’t care if you’re digging up townhouses or where you digging. I’ll just leave it that way there. I heard there was a other comments about other tips where there’s mass graves. You probably heard of that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum.
Robert PICKTON: And um, they probably showed you right where, right where they’re buried and everything else and I wish you luck again. And on and on and on.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I tell you this if you were able to take us to a spot.
Robert PICKTON: No I can’t do that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well it, certainly if you did...
Robert PICKTON: If I, I could I would.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: But let’s go, on that route there. If I could I would.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Obvious, because then that would free up your property right away wouldn’t it. I mean.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Cause we’d be able to just go boom, boom, boom.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: The other thing is if there was spots where something was on your property, and you could point them then obviously that (SNAPPING FINGERS) would allow us to go, yeah, okay, we’ve done our job and now we’re history. That’s just in, good policing.
Robert PICKTON: That’s right. Bad policing your guys behalf. Right. It took so long.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pardon.
Robert PICKTON: Bad policing on your behalf because its been so long.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, cause it took so long to catch you. Yeah. Yeah, you’re right. Yeah, and ah, I know a lot of policemen feel bad for the families of these people. Did you ever think of quitting?
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Was it, is it that drive we talked about, like does that accurately describe it, cause I would like to know, cause obviously someday I’ll be sitting with somebody else Willy, it would be nice to...
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, it’ll all, it’ll all come out. It’ll all come out.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: These guys that lecture to us, talk about it fantasy, the fantasy of the killing and that, is that, (PICKTON SHAKING HEAD “NO”) no it’s not like that. Is it anger?
Robert PICKTON: Who said that?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well...
Robert PICKTON: Fantasy, what do you mean?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That, that serial killers have fantasies about what they want to do to their victims and that they, for you nothing like that.
Robert PICKTON: No. No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Anger? Well you, you sort of said it was anger. Would I be right in, in saying Willy, that you had reached the stage where you just no longer sort of really viewed these girls as being worth anything.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And you killed...
Robert PICKTON: But ah, no, no, that’s not. I had one more planned but that was, that was the end of it. That was the last I was gonna shut it down, that’s why I was just sloppy. Just the last one.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You were gonna do one more.
Robert PICKTON: (INDECIPHERABLE) that was the end of it. That’s why I got sloppy because the other thing never got that far.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Like why didn’t you just drag that mattress that you, where killed ah, Mona, why didn’t you just drag it out and burn it. I mean that would have been...
Robert PICKTON: I don’t...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...did you not realize there was blood underneath it? Like you don’t have to say anything? Like if you’d a burnt it Willy, just sloppy.
Robert PICKTON: Sloppy like I just told you.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Let me ask you a question? They talk about a, people keeping trophies.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So when you kept the women’s ID in your place that was just...
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...again sloppy.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Jesus Willy, you must be kicking yourself, like...
Robert PICKTON: I know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You gotta be, you gotta be saying like why. All you would have had to do...
Robert PICKTON: I know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...is go through that, clean up.
Robert PICKTON: I know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And you’d still be on the street.
Robert PICKTON: I know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Oh, it must piss you off.
Robert PICKTON: I know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: It must eh?
Robert PICKTON: I know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Like that mattress all you had to do was burn it. Well you would have had to washed the walls right.
Robert PICKTON: Sloppiness.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: There’s, that mattress lays like this eh,..
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum, I know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. She was obviously laying, our experts, like they’re amazing eh. Now there’s the blood cast off as, as you were hitting her.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well that’s, yeah, there’s, there’s what they call impact blood.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Do you know what that means?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um...
Robert PICKTON: Hitting her, what do you mean, no, no, no you’re, you’re, you guys are way off the deep end.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No there’s, there’s did you choke her to death or ...
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well there’s impact blood, there’s blood that’s cast off from, from where she’s laying, right.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum, um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well how do you explain that then, I don’t understand. Like did she kinda try and, I know there’s bloody palm prints in there too. Was she trying to get away. I mean clearly you didn’t choke her to death, Willy.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Because there’s blood all over the place.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Right, so I mean, you know, did you use a hatchet or did you...
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Like a hammer or something.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Like what, tell me. Come on man, I’m dying to know for heaven sakes, I’ve investigated this for a year.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Share at least that much with me.
Robert PICKTON: It’ll come out in the wash.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Come on, come on, we sat here all night. Come on you’re dying to tell me. I can see it in your eyes. Willy look at me.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’re dying to tell me.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: What did you use?
Robert PICKTON: Sloppiness.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: (PAUSE) Yeah, well obviously it was sloppy right. Did you even think about cleaning up?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How come you didn’t?
Robert PICKTON: Too busy working job sites.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Did you kill her like on a you know, was it a weekday or a weeknight, or...
Robert PICKTON: You’re making me a murderer more than I am.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well, no I’m not.
Robert PICKTON: (LAUGHING)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No I’m not Willy. You’ve made yourself a murderer. (PAUSE) My suspicion is that with your memory, you probably know exactly what day, you know, what time at night, everything. Let’s deal with just that one. Mona WILSON in the, in the mobile home. Firstly, why take her to the mobile home? Like why not do it in your trailer?
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Come on.
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Just cause it was gonna be messy.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Was she living out there or staying there?
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Willy, come on, give it up. Come on you owe me that much.
Robert PICKTON: You’re not gonna, you’ve been thinking on this one eh. So you’ve been thinking on this for awhile it must have been, you really must be really doing your, your homework.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I do tend to do my homework. You were doing job sites, do you work on the weekends?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. Work everyday.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Oh, so that doesn’t mean anything. When you choose to tell me, do you remember whether it was a, a weekday or a weeknight or do you remember?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Cause that wasn’t that long ago, right.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: I’ll leave you in suspicion.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pardon?
Robert PICKTON: I’ll leave you in suspicion.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: In suspense yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Suspense. I am nailed to the cross.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, no you are, that’s true. There’s evidence they tell me, of other blood drag marks, where, where you’ve killed somebody else in that motor home. That’s gonna be DNA’d, there’s no point in us, did you do most of the killing out there...
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ... or most of it in the trailer or most of it in the slaughterhouse.
Robert PICKTON: Run that by me, run that by me again.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. There’s sort of three Willy, three sites alright, the motor home, alright. So you killed Mona ...
Robert PICKTON: Let’s work, let’s work with the motor home.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. The motor home you killed Mona on the bed, right, we agreed, on the foamy. But there’s another, there’s more blood agree?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That’s where that happened yeah. Cause well the blood tells the truth. Right.
Robert PICKTON: Okay. Tell me (INDECIPHERABLE) (BILL FORDY PASSES PHOTO BOARD INTO THE ROOM)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Oh! Bill has just handed in a, a picture.
Robert PICKTON: Oh, that’s nice.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: They’ve got a lot of fancy pictures of your place. Okay, so we’re talking about the motor home, where is it Willy?
Robert PICKTON: Down, right there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Right here.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So let’s talk about it and sort of how many girls died in there. Mona died on the foamy. Alright.
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well we just discussed that so.
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How many other girls died in there because we have other blood trails of other victims in there.
Robert PICKTON: Why what else you got in there?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Ah, more blood. Different, different, from a different person.
Robert PICKTON: What?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I’m not sure alright, cause you gotta remember I don’t work at the site, I actually work out of our headquarters.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Where I’m running the investigative side of this.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: How many is there gonna be?
Robert PICKTON: Where have they moved into, where’s their, where’s their office?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: They’ve got back in over here, there’s ah, about eight...
Robert PICKTON: Over there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...eight trailers. Up in here somewhere.
Robert PICKTON: No, nothing up there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Nothing buried there.
Robert PICKTON: No, there’s nothing over there, how can you get in there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: They laid down about fifty thousand dollars worth of gravel, put trailers in it, they’ve run power in there, water, they got a city on your property right now. Willy, you’re very large. Like there’s got to be a small part of you that’s pretty proud of the fact that you’re the most notorious guy in Canada right now. I can see it in your face. It’s true isn’t it?
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Just tell me the truth. Like you’re not, I think you’re not happy with the trouble you’re causing your family, agreed?
Robert PICKTON: That’s very true.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But you gotta admit there’s a part of you that’s pretty proud of what you’ve accomplished here. A part, look at me, (PICKTON FACES ADAM) you know, a part. Agreed, I see it in you Willy, I read people, that’s what I do.
Robert PICKTON: So is that the gravel in behind there?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, it’s not there yet, in this picture. This is...
Robert PICKTON: This it right there, right th, right back there isn’t it? Right...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No.
Robert PICKTON: Down, down lower, there, up, up, right there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No that’s just part of the farm. This picture does not capture, this would have been an early picture. So we were talking about this, how many girls in there? One for sure. (PAUSE) Because this is one way we can test your truthfulness Willy, alright, alright. If you’re truth with me and you go well Don, you could find up of five different women’s blood in there and we do find it, then we can sit there and say okay, you know, now we can start to believe what Willy says.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. So my question is how many?
Robert PICKTON: I’d say two, probably two, maybe three.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, so we’ve got Mona obviously, right?
Robert PICKTON: No. We got nobody yet.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, we do. But we got Mona, trust me Mona’s the one on the mattress with...
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. (21:30)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...with her blood, did you use that dildo on her? It’s got her DNA on the tip, it’s got yours, you did, didn’t you. Was she alive or dead?
Robert PICKTON: Alive.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: When you used it eh? Did you shoot her?
Robert PICKTON: Shoot her?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, well it’s on the .22 maybe she...
Robert PICKTON: No. There’s not holes through it, I put no holes through that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, no, but you might have taken it off and shot the girl. Like whatever you did caused a lot of blood right.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. Well you did, you did some of your homework.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Why not just tell me?
Robert PICKTON: What can I tell you.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You’re having fun playing cat and mouse with me here, Willy? True.
Robert PICKTON: I’m telling you, I’m telling you well what you got me right?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum. But why don’t we just deal with, with Mona WILSON ah, you, like the things I’d be curious to know, is why you used the motor home instead of the trailer. Is that, and I, is it just because you knew it might be bloody or a mess or was she out there and you went out there to her. Like how did it happen?
Robert PICKTON: Well, I don’t know what date you got on there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you know the date.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. But what date you got on the paper?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That she disappeared?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum. Giving your head a rattle am I.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pardon.
Robert PICKTON: I’m giving your head a rattle am I?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you gotta remember that ah, Mona WILSON, was I’m gonna say around the end of, somewhere in November, December of last year. When did you get her out there, when did this happen?
Robert PICKTON: No, you’re close.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Come on. Cough it up.
Robert PICKTON: You’re close. No, you’re close.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But you used the dildo on her when she was still alive, is that true?
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Did she do anything to, to send you into a rage or was it just, it was already planned, you had already said that.
Robert PICKTON: No, she didn’t want to have any sex.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Pardon.
Robert PICKTON: She didn’t want any, she didn’t want to do anything.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So you, what did you just lose control of yourself?
Robert PICKTON: No. No comment. (LAUGHING) No comment at this stage. (PAUSE) I’m already talking to you guys but not even supposed to talk to you. But that’s here nor there. I am nailed to the cross and.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, yeah, you are, that’s true.
Robert PICKTON: At this stage here, no comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay. Do you remember where you killed ah, the other girl with the inhaler?
Robert PICKTON: No comment again.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Let me guess, would I be right if I guessed in the slaughter area? (POINTING TO PHOTO BOARD) Or was she dead by the time she made it there?
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Come on Willy, if you gonna, if you want me to believe...
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But just hear me out, if you want me to believe that you haven’t buried these girls whole in here, alright.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Then, then what you’re telling me alright, is gonna be that ultimately you either, took them into the, the slaughter area alive, or took them in there dead and disposed of them. Agreed? That’s true.
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No. No, no. Willy, you’re the one who’s asking me about your farm.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright so.
Robert PICKTON: I’m just telling you.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, no, no, you hear me out, you’re the one who’s asking me and you’re asking me to believe you and put some faith in you.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And talk to my investigators.
Robert PICKTON: I already told you how many’s in the trailer. Probably, maybe up to as high as three in that, in the motor home.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: That’s was as far as we got.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Right.
Robert PICKTON: Possibly.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay, then how many in the, in your, how many in here? (POINTING TO BOARD)
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Now why, why not give me a ball park on that?
Robert PICKTON: Cause I gotta talk to Dinah. Private. No comment at this stage.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum. Alright, then answer me this, when you talk about the three is the girl with the inhaler in here or somewhere else? That’s a fair question.
Robert PICKTON: You’re off.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: What do you mean I’m off? Like, okay, so she’s not in here. You didn’t kill in there. Alright.
Robert PICKTON: You’re off.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Like, now you need to explain that. Where did you kill her?
Robert PICKTON: No comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Willy, Willy, Willy, Willy. If you’re asking me to believe you and you’re asking me to go back to my investigators, that’s what you’re doing aren’t you? You’re asking me ...
Robert PICKTON: Well...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...to have some faith in what you say to me...
Robert PICKTON: Well...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...and yet you give me nothing.
Robert PICKTON: You.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I’m gonna look like an idiot, I’m gonna go back and say well, ...
Robert PICKTON: You think it over.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you give me something I can take back and not look like an idiot.
Robert PICKTON: I am, I am giving you something to think over.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, well fair enough, you’ve been up front about this killing.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And you’ve said yeah, there’s two or ...
Robert PICKTON: Possible.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you said two or three more. But my...
Robert PICKTON: Possible two.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Two more. But my question to you is alright, I don’t want to look like an idiot, alright.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Heaven knows I already am an idiot, I’m not even supposed to be in this room, they got this little thing Willy, where you’re supposed to do certain jobs.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. My job is not to be in the front line sitting here, chatting with you and yet, here I am, right.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So already I’m gonna be in shit, so my question of you, is that....
Robert PICKTON: But I want to let you know, where we’re standing at.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well then, then you, as you and I both know, you’re finished on the inhaler girl, which is ABOTSWAY, Sereena.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So give me, well you are.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well sure, you’re caught in a whole bunch of lies about the inhaler. Right?
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well sure you are.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Willy.
Robert PICKTON: No. I said no comment.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Look at me for a second. You are.
Robert PICKTON: No. No comment at this stage.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Let’s leave it like that way there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: So when you give, what are you giving me to take back to my people other than obviously Mona WILSON’s murder. What are you giving me to, that I can say Willy’s not just stringing me full of shit. Okay, you give me something, you tell what, what you give me that will allow me to go back to my people...
Robert PICKTON: I told you already.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...and hold my face.
Robert PICKTON: I told you already.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Like what?
Robert PICKTON: I said there’ll be other people involved.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You haven’t told me who though?
Robert PICKTON: I didn’t, no. Why should I tell you that?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Why not?
Robert PICKTON: Cause you, because they’re not involved yet.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You mean like in other words, it’s not out in the open yet.
Robert PICKTON: Tit for tat.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well let me step out.
Robert PICKTON: No, I’ll let you sleep on it. You gonna sleep on it a day or two or whatever.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: If you want to dig the property up, be my guest.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, well let me step out. (STANDS UP) Okay, I’ll be back in a sec, alright.
Robert PICKTON: Just, just like I said, just sleep on it for a day or two.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Sorry, are you getting tired or are you okay?
Robert PICKTON: I’m okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, you seem okay. Frankly you got more zip in you now than I do.
Robert PICKTON: No. It’s just I’m telling you right now, because I’m nailed to the cross anyways.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah. Why not give me everything then?
Robert PICKTON: Why should I do that? Ah, what, what grounds have I got to stand on?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I guess, if I said it would be the right thing to do Willy, that wouldn’t mean anything.
Robert PICKTON: No.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: Cause I gotta talk to Dinah first, I told you that.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, what about, so the families of these people, the families of these girls...
Robert PICKTON: That’s not my comment, that’s not my problem.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But they’re not...
Robert PICKTON: Shit happens.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you certainly sum up how you feel about it.
Robert PICKTON: I mean myself, I’m, I’m nailed, what I’m saying is I’m freeing the property and, I’m taking a lot of extra work off your hands, what you don’t have to do.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You know something, I could care less about the work.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: My sole reason for, for being with you here is to try and do something for these families.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright, and I know you know, you don’t understand that and I accept that, that’s...
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, but the problem is ah, I’m nailed already so what can I do? Honestly, you tell me what I can do.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well let me ask you a question. If it was your niece or nephew,... (21:40)
Robert PICKTON: Well...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...wouldn’t you want ...
Robert PICKTON: If it was my niece or nephew?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: They’re at the wrong place at the right time. What else can I say.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I hear you. Let me step out ...
Robert PICKTON: I mean, I’m nailed.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I mean myself, the only thing they can do is shoot me, right, I mean at this stage.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum. Yeah, we don’t shoot people here in Canada.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, but the, no, no you follow what I’m trying to say, I mean.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: I’m nailed to the cross.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum. Yeah...
Robert PICKTON: What can I, oh, what can I do?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: What about doing the right thing Willy?
Robert PICKTON: No, no, no because...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Just think about if first.
Robert PICKTON: ...I gotta talk ah, like I says, I gotta talk to my friend and so on and so forth. Then everything comes out. If that’s okay and everything’s draw ah, pulls out. But like I says, if you want to go digging, and there’s lots of comment, lots of people out there, who will tell you where their, where they’re buried. Go right ahead.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: All I want to do is be able to look into the eyes of these families….
Robert PICKTON: I mean, I mean, I mean the biggest thing is that you got some, some heavy leads where their buried, I wouldn’t turn, I would take that away from you. If I was you I would go for it.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well Willy, we, you know, I mean you’re...
Robert PICKTON: Only problem is you’re still not gonna find anything but that’s here nor there. But the problem is...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well we got a statement from one of the, one of your friends.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Where you told her that I’m finished because they are gonna dig. You told her that.
Robert PICKTON: Who?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I’m not gonna tell you, I’m not gonna ...
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You know she, she said you know, I care about Willy, he’s my friend but he did say that.
Robert PICKTON: What’s her name?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I’m not gonna tell you that.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. But I can tell you this, is that she likes you.
Robert PICKTON: Okay. Must be Nancy.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I’m not gonna tell you.
Robert PICKTON: Must be . . .
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But you know, you know, you know who you told that. But Willy I’m not stupid you know, I mean, I’m not particularly bright, but I’m not stupid.
Robert PICKTON: Okay ah, ...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You were worried and you told her that they’re gonna dig and I’m finished.
Robert PICKTON: If they dig, and they find something.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, no, no.
Robert PICKTON: ...all my, all my power.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well.
Robert PICKTON: All my power, if they know exactly where to dig or anything else, all your power. Your powers.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Um, hum. And you’re not willing to do anything for these families. To try and let them put something behind them on this?
Robert PICKTON: What can I say?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: The truth.
Robert PICKTON: How can you say the truth, when the truth’s not even out yet.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well you know the truth. You know whether there’s...
Robert PICKTON: That doesn’t mean nothing.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Twenty or thirty or however many ...
Robert PICKTON: That doesn’t mean nothing.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...girls you’ve done.
Robert PICKTON: That doesn’t mean nothing.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: What do you mean, it doesn’t mean nothing?
Robert PICKTON: It doesn’t mean nothing, I mean, I mean, I’m nailed anyways, right.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah.
Robert PICKTON: Okay. So it don’t mean nothing.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You know, Willy I hear ya, (SITS BACK DOWN) you know, and I sit here and I, your complete lack of caring about these women you know, that’s your business.
Robert PICKTON: Well I am...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Just hear me out, just hear me out.
Robert PICKTON: No, no, not, not necessarily I mean, I respect them for worrying about their off spring and for worrying about where they’re located or where they are if they’re ah, inside of a cave or here or there. Yes, I would, I would be in the same position as they are. But at, at my stage right now, I haven’t got nothing to say. At this stage.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But, and not that this matters a bit to you alright.
Robert PICKTON: But that’s, not everything matters.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: No, no, no but do you know who Clifford OLSON is?
Robert PICKTON: I’ve heard of him.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, he’s, he was a serial killer. Killed, in his case, he killed little girls.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: My, my partner, Jim HUNTER worked on that case.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright.
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And when OLSON was caught he wheeled and dealed for the bodies of those girls.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Right, with absolutely no remorse and...
Robert PICKTON: Okay.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: ...you know, and Willy exactly, you’re exactly the same personality as Clifford.
Robert PICKTON: Not necessarily.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: But you are. Alright.
Robert PICKTON: (INDECIPHERABLE)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Now you forced me, just, just hear me out. (OVER TALKING)
Robert PICKTON: I mean, I don’t know, I’m only saying and I real, releasing the property back, so they can get their life back together.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, okay.
Robert PICKTON: That’s all I’m saying.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You know.
Robert PICKTON: Because otherwise you got everything all tied up.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yes, I hear that.
Robert PICKTON: That’s all I’m saying.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I hear it Willy. I guess the part that bothers me the most alright, is that, you know...
Robert PICKTON: The part that bothers me the most is you got the whole place tied up and my brother can’t do anything. That’s all I’m saying. (PAGER GOES OFF)
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, I guess Willy. Look I’m gonna step out and talk to ah, talk to my people okay. But I want you, I need to leave you with this, okay?
Robert PICKTON: How about I go back to my cell there.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah. I leave, but I want you to hear me out.
Robert PICKTON: ...and you think it over.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: You know Willy, I sit here and I try and see things from your eyes, okay.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, but I...
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Just hear me out, just hear me out.
Robert PICKTON: No problem.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: And I have to do that because in order to further this case, ...
Robert PICKTON: I know.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: I have to try and understand you. And I have to talk lightly about what you did, because otherwise I’m gonna shut you down, and you won’t talk to me. Alright, but all the time I’m seized with the fact that while you and I are talking about this as if it’s so many ah, you know, used cars.
Robert PICKTON: Well.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: That there are people who’s are, hearts are being broken and...
Robert PICKTON: What can I say?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Well I just want you to know how much it bothers me to have to sit here and act as if this is just a chess game.
Robert PICKTON: It’s not a chess game but the problem is I’m just only asking you for everybody get their life back together. That’s all I’m asking for.
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Alright. Let me think about that, I’ll be back in a sec.
Robert PICKTON: Do I get to go back to my cell?
S/Sgt. Don ADAM: Yeah, let me ah, talk to my ah, people and I’m sure we can arrange that. (PICKTON PICKS UP PICTURE BOARD OF FARM - SITS BACK YAWNING) (ADAM LEAVES ROOM 4 MIN 16 SEC LATER, FORDY RE-ENTERED THE ROOM)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Rob, how you doin?
Robert PICKTON: Oh, ...
Sgt. Bill FORDY: What’s that?
Robert PICKTON: (INDECIPHERABLE)
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Um, Don asked me to come and ah, just take you back to your cell.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, no problem.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I guess he said you wanted to go to your cell for awhile. One thing ah, I should mention to you, is a little, a couple of minutes ago about fifteen minutes ago, or so, I think, I don’t know the exact time, your lawyer came, she’s gone for a coffee.
Robert PICKTON: Um, hum.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Ah, do you want to phone her before you...
Robert PICKTON: She coming back?
Sgt. Bill FORDY: No, she’s gone for a coffee. My question is do you want to phone her, do you want to, she was by to see you is what I’m telling you. So I mean, if you want to phone her, that’s up to you.
Robert PICKTON: I could wait here for her.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Pardon?
Robert PICKTON: I could wait here for her.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh no, you won’t, you won’t see her in here.
Robert PICKTON: Oh.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: I mean I’m gonna take you back to your cell, but before you go to sleep, I guess my question is, if you want me to phone, phone her up and ask her to come back and see you, it’s up to you.
Robert PICKTON: It don’t matter.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: It doesn’t matter? I mean it’s up to you, do you want to see her or not, do you want to go to sleep.
Robert PICKTON: It doesn’t matter. I’m okay, no problem.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You don’t need to see her.
Robert PICKTON: No, if she wants to see me, no problem.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh, do you want to stay here. It’s, it’s your right.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, no problem, no problem. No problem.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: You don’t need to.
Robert PICKTON: No, it doesn’t matter.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay.
Robert PICKTON: I mean if she’s in this area.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Oh, she’s gone for a coffee.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: So, um, I guess my point is that it’s up to you like that, whether or not you want to see her. Just because she wants to see you, it doesn’t matter, it’s up to you. If you just want to relax and go to sleep I mean.
Robert PICKTON: It don’t matter. Don’t matter. It don’t matter.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay. I mean it’s up to you that’s all.
Robert PICKTON: No, no, no problem.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: No. Okay. No, you don’t want to see her, or yes you do?
Robert PICKTON: No, no, don’t matter, if she’s in this area I might as well see her.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Well I don’t know where she is, that’s the thing, she’s gone for a coffee somewhere.
Robert PICKTON: Yeah, I’ll phone her and see where she is.
Sgt. Bill FORDY: Okay, you want to phone her, okay. That’s okay. Good, I’m glad we resolved that. Follow me. Time is ah, 9:54. (LEAVE ROOM) INTERVIEW CONCLUDED AT 22:00 HOURS ON 2002-02-23