At 7:30 on the evening of January 19, 2000, two constables of the Coquitlam RCMP Serious Crime Section, Ruth Yurkiw and John Cater, took a statement from Robert William Pickton under file 98CQ-33017. He went by Bob. His friend Gina Houston sat in on it and spoke more than two hundred times. Yurkiw tells him at the outset what it is about, a lot of allegations and rumors the police have heard, "through, um, one person in particular but some others as well," and asks how he knew Lynn Ellingsen. The next 137 pages are about Ellingsen, about a woman found in his trailer in 1997 with a handcuff on her wrist, about a sex worker in New Westminster who had identified him, about who slaughters his pigs and who does the butchering and how he disposes of the remains, and about whether he would mind if the officers had a look through his trailer. He says, "Whatever."
Pickton's answers run long when the subject is Ellingsen and short when it is not. He describes her taking his pickup for three days, the paramedics he called for her twice, a house in Surrey that burned, a night the police pulled him over in Vancouver with bloodshot eyes, and says more than once that he wishes he had never met her. To the direct questions he says he never had anything to do with it, and that he doesn't know nothing about that. Houston vouches for him, and tells the officers how she and Ellingsen met, in a women's shelter, both on drugs and both homeless.
The officers did not search the property that night. Twenty-five months later, in February 2002, a search under a firearms warrant began the excavation of the farm, and the RCMP's interrogation of Pickton from that month is already on this site in four parts. This is the earlier record, taken while the women whose remains would be found there were still disappearing, and it was entered as Exhibit 91 at the public inquiry that later asked why nothing came of it.
What this is. The RCMP's typed transcript of a recorded witness statement, 137 pages, Bates-numbered RCMP-076-000833 to 000969, taken by two constables at the Coquitlam detachment with a civilian present. It is a statement and not an interrogation: Pickton was not under arrest, was questioned as a person about whom allegations had been made, and had a friend in the room. It is not the February 2002 interrogation, which is a different record under a different file number with different officers, and the two should not be merged.
Who holds it. A record of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, produced to the Missing Women Commission of Inquiry, British Columbia, under Commissioner Wally Oppal, and posted in the Commission's exhibit database, which is hosted by the University of Victoria Library. It is Canadian, so the American rule that government works are public domain does not apply; works prepared for the Crown carry Crown copyright, and this one is within term. It is published here as an exhibit of a public inquiry, released by that inquiry for public inspection, under the rule that every interview in this archive goes up with a note. The video of the same interview, Exhibit 90, was not posted by the Commission because of its size and has not been seen.
What has and has not been checked. The words here are unproofed OCR: the PDF's own text layer holds only redaction codes, so the page images were read by machine at 300 dots per inch from 331-dot bitonal scans. All 137 pages are present and the Bates run is continuous. An investigator's handwritten marginal notes on several pages bleed into the text as stray letters, and stray marks appear before some speaker labels; the running page header and the disclosure path the RCMP printed on every page have been stripped, as have the page and Bates numbers, and each speaker's turn is set as its own paragraph. Nothing in the words has been corrected and no spelling repair was run. "(inaudible)" throughout is the RCMP transcriber's mark for gaps in the recording, not a scanning failure. One answer on the first page, on a struck-through word, comes out as nonsense and should not be quoted as anything Pickton said. The recording was not heard.
On the speaker counts. The capture we worked from counted 599 turns by Pickton, 399 by Yurkiw, 150 by Cater and 221 by Houston. Our division of the text, after removing the page furniture and separating the labels the scanner had run together, gives 721, 435, 204 and 292. Where a label was damaged beyond recognition the reader will see two voices in one paragraph.
. Statement of Robert PICKTON, taken on 00.01.19 @ 7:30 p.m. by CST. Ruth YURKIW and CST. John CATER - Coquitlam RCMP Serious Crime Section, in the presence of Gina HOUSTON.
YURKIW: Um, Bob, just for, uh, some tombstone.data, because I don’t know you, is, it’s Robert PICKTON?
PICKTON: That’s correct.
YURKIW: And do you go by ‘Bob’?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Okay. That’s comfortable for you?, ;.
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: And what’s your current occupation?
PICKTON: Sutterbrce Sed/ ern ed.
YURKIW: Yeah, but what do you do?
PICKTON: Uh, construction, demolition, excavation.
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: Everything else that falls in between. os
YURKIW: Okay, now the reason we’ve asked you to come in here....
PICKTON: Mmm hmm..
YURKIW: ..1s regarding, um, a lot of, um, allegations and rumours we’ve heard and, um,. we’ve heard them through, um, one person in particular but some others as well. Um, let’s start off by how did you know Lynn ELLINGSEN?
PICKTON: (Laughs).
HOUSTON: [ll explain how Lynn, I’m, me and Lynn, I met Lynn, we were both in a women’s, shelter at the same time.
YURKIW: Uh huh.
HOUSTON: Going through the same things; both screwed up on drugs, both homeless. And, um, I ended up getting a place out in PoCo and Lynn helped me move in and when I moved in there I wasn’t really into the party scene after being in the women’s shelter and stuff like that and all she wanted to do was phone me up, she always was wanting to party, party. She’d phone some of her dope dealing friends up_and say that Gina wants drugs. She’d get close to my house and you know pulled the trip like she’d already been into the dope whatever bag she got. off the guy, you know, and then she had these guys starting to threaten me and I a just basically told her to beat it. I wanted nothing more to do with her. So she comes out whining at him one day and tries to lay the guilt trip how I brushed her off and left her high and dry and you know she just she got really weird. You know really rude on me. e
YURKIW: Okay, so when did Gina living with you, Bob?
PICKTON: Mmmm.
HOUSTON: Do you mean Lynn?
YURKIW: Lynn. Sorry, not Gina, when did Lynn start living with you?
PICKTON: Uh.....
HOUSTON: February 14, last year, 15, 14 the week, that weekend on Sunday..
PICKTON: (inaudible)
HOUSTON: Yeah, it was that Sunday. The Sunday, Valentines Sunday. I think it was the 15th, 14th. If you have a calendar with that week...
PICKTON: Yeah, we can check, yeah, that’s no problem.
HOUSTON: Yeah..
PICKTON: Valentine’s day.
HOUSTON: I’m, it was the Sunday. I think Valentine’s day was on Saturday. -
YURKIW: Okay. Bob, where did she day when she, uh... eee
PICKTON: Be-, before she moved in? a ca. e
YURKIW: When she.... |.
PICKTON: she got, she got bur-, her house burnt down.
YURKIW: Where was...
PICKTON: Her place in Surrey.
YURKIW: Okay, and, uh...
HOUSTON: So she says.
PICKTON: Yeah, it was. e
HOUSTON: Was it?
PICKTON: Yeah,bigtime.
HOUSTON: Oh.
PICKTON: She left the grease, she turned the grease on and she didn’t know what she was doing.
HOUSTON: (Laughs).
PICKTON: (inaudible).
YURKIW: Where did she stay when she was at your place?.
PICKTON: My, my place.
YURKIW: In your trailer? 7
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Okay. Now just because there’s two homes on that property, there’s the house at the front of the property.
PICKTON: Mmm hmm.
YURKIW: And that’s your brother’s place?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: And then your place is the trailer further down.
PICKTON: That’s nght.,
YURKIW: Now that property’s owned by you and your brother?
PICKTON: Mmm hmm, that’s correct. Uh, three, three ownership. a
YURKIW: Oh, who’s the other one?
PICKTON: My sister.
YURKIW: Where’s your sister? e
PICKTON: Vancouver.
YURKIW: Oh, okay. And what’s her name?.
PICKTON: Linda..
YURKIW: Linda. PICKTON?
PICKTON: Uh, WRIGHT..
YURKIW: WRIGHT.. a
PICKTON: I think. I don’t even know. e
YURKIW: Sodid the three of you, um, have that property willed to you by your parents?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Okay. So they’re no longer living?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: Alnght.
PICKTON: They pa-, my brother, my mo-, my dad passed on in 1977 and my mother passed on 1979, 7 eS
YURKIW: Okay. And, um, who lived with you when Lynn was living there? Was there. anyone else living in your trailer with you?
PICKTON: Um, yeah there was.,
HOUSTON: His name’s Ross. Ron’s friend.
PICKTON: Hmm.
HOUSTON: Yeah, Ron’s friend.
PICKTON: Ross, yeah. a e
HOUSTON: I don’t know the last name. {
YURKIW: (inaudible) what was he, a boyfriend or?
HOUSTON: No, it’s one of the guys from Lynn’s, um...
PICKTON: But the, the, the...
HOUSTON: When Lynn’s going around to beat up someone or get money they supposedly owe her, he’s one of the guys that she takes with him. He’s a, I think he’s bald. isn’t he? Last time I seen him he had shaved his head bald.
PICKTON: Yeah
HOUSTON: Big guy. I think he had blue eyes. I wan't remember his last name. @ e. 8
YURKIW: Okay. When Lynn when was staying there, what was the relationship? Was she just a...
PICKTON: Just a friend..
YURKIW: Okay...
PICKTON: I never had anything to do with her.
YURKIW: Did she want a romantic relationship?
PICKTON: I don’t know. Like I said, she wanted a place to stay because, uh, she didn’t have no place to mo-, but it, but sometimes, um, when she comes in she’s, and she go-,. r walks in there right by the thermostat turns the thermostat right to a hundred degrees.
YURKIW: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: And, oh, man, I was, I was sleeping and what the fuck it got hot in here. And the next thing I know the furnace is come on, come on, come on, get going, trying to catch te-, temperature. It happened twice. It was about about ninety degrees there once and, uh, the place in Surrey there got burnt down and I mean J think she. turned the grease on there and or whatever I’m not too sure. That’s the house in a Surrey.
YURKIW: So she’s not too good with temperature.
PICKTON: No, she likes... , 9
HOUSTON: When she gets high she turns the temperature up and she strips down.
YURKIW: Okay.
HOUSTON: That’s common with a lot of people that smoke crack.
YURKIW: Um, did she do any work for you? Like how did she pay her rent there?
PICKTON: Uh...
YURKIW: What was the arrangement?.
PICKTON: Well, she was supposed to only stay there for two or three months until she found 6 a place to move to her, for, you know a couple wee-, week or two or three.
YURKIW: Mmmhmm.
PICKTON: And.then it turned out to be a month and it turned out to be two months and then it was into the top soil and I says “do you want to do something?’ so I got her to, um, to do with topsoil like take orders and everything else..
YURKIW: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: Then got her to, driving truck..
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: To, driving truck around the farm (inaudible). can
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: Not on the road like ‘cause...
YURKIW: In the...
PICKTON: Yeah, because I think you need a class three licence for a farm vehicle.
YURKIW: Yeah. Okay. So she sort of earned her keep that way?
PICKTON: Yeah, but I mean then at the end, uh, I was giving her a little bit of money too.
YURKIW: =Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: And I shouldn’t but the problem is her money wasn’t going anywhere so, fuck, I wish I, like I said, { wish I never met her.
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
PICKTON: I wish. I wish.
YURKIW: Has she tried to, uh, get money from you other than what you gave her?
PICKTON: Uh, I phoned the paramedics up there twice of, on her because she was, um, she was almost, uh, passed out like I mean she was under cocaine or whatever and then o.d’d and I got the paramedics there once and, um, uh, so I mean she has gone (inaudible). I don’t know where she’s getting all the dope from or anything ) else, And I didn’t even know she was even on dope when, but Gina, Gina warned ry me.
HOUSTON: [kept telling him.
PICKTON: Gina warned me.
HOUSTON: And telling him.
PICKTON: Gina warned me.
HOUSTON: Yeah. She used, a bunch of stuff would go missing from his place and she would say ‘oh, well, I know where it all is but I want, I have to have $400.00 to get it back.’
PICKTON: Yes.
HOUSTON: And then she would say the guy ripped her off but she was going to this I chick’s place down by, you down Shaughnessy and before turn with the Shell gas, station there’s that school., -
CATER: Pitt River Road there, yeah.
HOUSTON: Yeah, there’s that little school, I can’t remember the name of it, down, like nght a there.
CATER: Central Elementary.,
HOUSTON: Yeah. ~ *
CATER: Mmm hmm.
HOUSTON: And she’d be going to this chick i place and smoking it all the way and she’d be, you know, I mean all these places like there’s people in and out of there. Stuff always going missing. She’d always, she’d be taking it, pawning it for dope, telling them ‘oh, well so and so took it and this guy came and approached me but I need this much money’ and I mean he would, being a trusting man, he would trust her and give her the money and she’d be gone for two days (laughs).
PICKTON: (inaudible) three, three.
HOUSTON: Yeah. e@.
YURKIW: Now there was a time that you and her were stopped in New West, um...
PICKTON: Yeah..
YURKIW: And at that point, uh...
PICKTON: Uh, no, let’s go back a little bit.
YURKIW: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: Okay, um, I had my pick up truck. That’s the one just a little Ranger, uh, a little,. little S10. Anyways, she jumps in my truck and she takes it and she’s gone for. three days. She’s gone for three days. And I can’t report it stolen because she took it from me, I left the keys in the truck. So I can’t report it stolen or anything. I, I got it back. -
YURKIW: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: The day before this all happened. The bumper’s all bent. YURKEIW: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: And here I went off the deep end. I went off the deep end.
YURKIW: And, what ended up... |.
PICKTON: My brother, huh? e
YURKIW: What did you do? What do you mean you went off the deep end?
PICKTON: I went off the deep end. I go to her, I says ‘what the fuck happened here? And everything else and I was pissed you know what I mean?
YURKIW: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: ‘Cause nobody smashes my truck up and mainly when you take it for three days and you bring it back and it’s all and the bumper’s all pa-, a-, all bent up everything else. The next day she wanted to go back to Surrey and to see Ross.
YURKIW: Ron.
PICKTON: Ross.
YURKIW: Ron lives i
PICKTON: Ross.
YURKIW: Ross lives in (J. Ron lives in il
PICKTON: Yeah, Ross is working.
YURKIW: Oh, is he?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: = Okay.
PICKTON: Anyways, he was working and he wanted to go and see Ross and from there @ actually it was when I says, uh, ‘I’m hungry, I’m tired’ and the next thing I know I oO says that, uh, so We went to New Westminster. We went across Patullo and I, “cause I used to go to, um, uh, where is that place there, uh, unk-, no, not Joey’s, um, what do you call that place there, uh, Wendy’s.
YURKIW: = Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: Right on 12th Avenue. And that’s where we were heading up to. And then next. thing I know Lynn says ‘hey, I know that person over there’ so anyways we were. and the next thing the police pulled me over and gave me wha-, wha-, whatever I do I mean just watch the pen or whatever. My eyes are all bloodshot ‘cause J shouldn’t even be driving. This was 11 o’clock at night. Anyways, uh, she. wanted to go out to Surrey and I says ‘okay, if you’re gonna go out to Surrey I’m gonna go over to Unc-, uh, Wendy’s and go up there and have supper so had i @ something to eat there. And when I got there they were almost closed and so just ‘e went in there and got myself a frosty, I like frosties. I buy Lynn and Gina (inaudible) frosty too.
HOUSTON: Every time we go.by Wendy’s he stops for a frosty.
YURKIW: But there was another occasion when you were in New West you know when the.. hooker’s i.d’d you. You approached her. You....
PICKTON: Hookers i.d.’d me?
YURKIW: Yeah. Um, she got your plate number and everything and, uh, you yelled at her...
PICKTON: What?.
YURKIW: And, uh, took off.
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: Oh, yeah, no I’m not making this up.
PICKTON: Okay, okay, where is, when was this?
YURKIW: This was back last spring and, um, anyhow, um, she i.d’d you and, um, you had an occasion I think it was back in 1997, we’ve got a file on it, where you had a prostitute out to your trailer, and you and the prostitute had a big altercation. I mean that’s all gone by the boards now, you can’t be charged with that. What happened there? e. 16
PICKTON: Yeah. Okay, first of all, I was charged but I, I mean everything’s been dropped..
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: But the problem she should’ve been charged.
HOUSTON: Yeah, she attacked him.
YURKIW: Well...
HOUSTON: And when the statement was given they dropped it.
YURKIW: Let, let Bob say it because you weren’t there okay, Gina?.. e
PICKTON: She, she attacked me.
YURKIW: Okay, well, number one you, you’ve got a prostitute out there. She’s got a handcuff on her wrist.
PICKTON: I put it on afterwards. |. |.
YURKIW: = Okay.
PICKTON: (inaudible)
YURKIW: So tell me the story. e
PICKTON: That was all afterwards. J mean it’s, uh, it’s all marked down on paper anyways > \RcMpiRe-vete Williams’ Appendix K - Exhibit\r_9175 and r_11115 Appended Pickton interview by Vurkiw Bs, but the problem is, uh, like I said, she should’ve been charged. And I really wonder why she isn’t really.
YURKIW: Well, she’s the one that technically died and they brought her back so.
PICKTON: I was dead.
YURKIW: Well, I read the file and she was the one that, the at the hospital.
PICKTON: I was, uh, I mean I drove myself to the hospital and everything else. I went to the police station.
YURKIW: Yeah. No, but she basically died in the ambulance and they brought her back.
PICKTON: Idon’t know nothing about that.
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: I mean I, I went to the police station first.
YURKIW: Yeah..
PICKTON: And then from the police station I drove myself to the hospital.
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: And, uh, like anymore than I didn’t know because but I did go to the police @, station first. a a. 9 ft
HOUSTON: Yeah, but what does that have to do with this? Au Pye ye
YURKIW: Well, it’s just a state of mind temper type thing. I want him to know what, um,? oe what got you angry and mean... -
PICKTON: Nothing got me angry.
YURKIW: Okay, I mean you both ended up with life threatening injuries.
PICKTON: Okay. The biggest thing is she attacked, I had about $3500.00 on me.
YURKIW: Mmm hmm. e
PICKTON: Really I do. I usually carry two wallets.
HOUSTON: At that time you carried at least....
PICKTON: I always carry two wallets, you know what I mean?.
HOUSTON: At that time he was carrying at least $5000.00 minimum on him at a time.
PICKTON: I carry a lot of money. And anyways she wanted the money, money. And that’s. where it started from. Then she (inaudible), I hate to say that.
CATER: Well, maybe you can walk through the scene because that’s the thing. You’re kind of saying ‘you already know that’ but CST YURKIW wants to, to know like in your words like what happened, exactly. So maybe if you can just walk us @ through it. e 19,
HOUSTON: Yeah, but his lawyer said he shouldn’t even be talking about it (inaudible)...
CATER: He can’t be charged with that anyways. We just wanna know from his like from his point of view what happened anyways.
HOUSTON: Like what set him off you mean?
CATER: Yeah, we aking him and not you, though.
PICKTON: Well, it’s a long story back and anyways. I was in Vancouver. I was tired. It was two cops pulled me over. I mean I pulled over to one side of the road and they knocked on the window. I says ‘what’s wrong?’ He says ‘what’s wrong? “What’s, uh, what’s you doing?’ I says ‘nothing. Do you mind if] have a rest? I ' @ mean I’m just tired, tired driving.’ I was on the way home. Prior to that I went to, uh, to, uh, Empire Auto Wrecking ‘cause I owed ‘em a bunch of money and I had to pay ‘em. Anyways IJ paid them. Then I went to, then J went to, then I was on my way (inaudible) side of Vancouver there. I pulled over. I was tired and J. passed out there. The cops came and knocked on my window and they says they go I mean I, ‘hey sir’ uh, they said ‘what’s wrong?’ You know eyes blood shot I says ‘I’m just trying to have a rest here, do you mind?’ He says ‘this is not a place to stop.” I says ‘I’m just tired. I mean J’m a-, I’m at a meter and it’s all done. I’m okay, aren’t I?’ He looks around ‘yeah, you're okay.’ So then anyways. there was three bike cops and they left. I don’t know who they were. Anyways from there, oh (sighs) J guess around 11:30, 12 o’clock, I decided to go home. Then I see a broad that’s hitch hiking or whatever..She stumbled off the curb, fell on the road. I stopped and says ‘do you mind if] get in warm up’ or whatever and I says that’s, well, we agreed so, uh, for $100.00 or whatever and I said ‘T’ll bring @ you back.’ That was the end of that. Okay, no problem. And she says ‘do you. canes. 20 have any, do, do you sure you got a $100.00 on you?’ ‘Yes.’ so I had about I’m not too sure how much money I had on me at the time. The rest of the money I had at the trailer. But anyways (inaudible) kind of nervous. I went home. Went in the back. She went in the washroom, shot herself up and I didn’t know (inaudible). Then afterwards she went back to the washroom and shot herself up 7 '.- again and she just (inaudible). She smashed the window in the shitter. Then all of. x ~ a sudden she went to the kitchen and she started, she grabbed a hold of this knife °. ra ie that’s right on top of the table, really, it was on tup of the table. And why I had it Loe ee i Sy there I don’t even know. I don’t even know.: [ don’t know. I keep saying to ho ye \y = ee myself ‘why?’ but I had my dogs out all the time and the problem is there just you A Ae 5 « iv ue. know (inaudible). I, I cook you know and IJ do pigs or whatever and anyways I SN hk uf ne turn around (inaudible) sliced a big chunk off my face (inaudible).........I mean. I a oo don’t know (inaudible) anyways. (Inaudible) and J just left it on the table @. cae (inaudible)...
YURKIW: What kind of knife was it?
PICKTON: A butcher knife, six inch. You’ve got it here.
YURKIW: Oh, okay. Probably still do in exhibits then.
PICKTON: Yeah, you still got everything. You got all the (inaudible) everything else. Anyways so the story and it was just we’re, I was in the back room and you had to - go through the kitchen, through the office and into the bathroom and into the back room (inaudible)....and I’m not too sure exactly, I remember something about Pm go-, but I’m going back a long time here aren’t ya. Uh, and the office J was. checking the answering machine, gees I’m just getting scared just even thinking e. of it, fuck. She knifed me both arms, across, uh, both arms. Through the mouth, e., through the tongue on the bottom. just went to my dentist yesterday and it was a. ee hike I said ’'m just fucken freak me out about. I don’t wanna even think of it but 2 }. - anyways, both arms, right from here across my throat and from here back here, ‘ -, ee ' through my mouth. Um, took two teeth out, right through my jaw, took two teeth ae - out. The whole fucken tongue and I was, and I says I jumped in my truck and I ’. :. oo didn’t have my keys in there. I didn’t have my keys in there. I jumped out and she 7 knifed me in the back. I said ‘you fucken bitch’ and, mind my language, I guess, oh, and I turned around, didn’t take the knife away from her. I did not take the knife away from her. I aimed it to her and I knifed her twice. I did do that. I admit Idid that. That’s one thing I didn’t, shouldn’t have done. I never want to think of that day again. I ne-, please.,
CATER: What do you think made her start doing that, though? ‘Cause you kind of went @ from her being in the washroom to all of a sudden she’s trying to cut you. Like. what, what started that?
PICKTON: I don’t have a clue. I don’t have a clue. I don’t have a clue.
CATER: “Cause you suggested earlier.
PICKTON: But like I says I had the knife on the, on the table and I, I can’t (inaudible)...
CATER: No, but you suggested earlier it might be because you carry a lot of cash and she a found that out.
PICKTON: Yeah, but she never said that. i
CATER: So did she say anything before she attacked you or? Just out of the blue? eo
PICKTON: I don’t know. I don’t know..
CATER: Well, we’re asking ‘cause clearly it was a traumatic event for you and usually those things stand...
PICKTON: It was.
CATER: ....out in your mind.
PICKTON: It was a terrifying event for me. I didn’t even. I was down for almost about two, two months in the hospital and nothing happened in the hospital, the wounds and everything else. I couldn’t work, I couldn’t do anything and my back still bothers me. Like I said J don’t even want to think about it again.
YURKIW: One other incident that, uh, Lynn, uh, said to other people that she and you brought another prostitute back to that trailer.
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: And that she was paid $150.00 and the prostitute was paid $150.00.
PICKTON: No, that’s not true. Totally not true.
YURKIW: Why would she make it up?
PICKTON: I don’t know.. e
HOUSTON: (inaudible) { Remember the time she said [needed money. You gaveher_. ‘e $150 bucks to go get some new (inaudible)...
PICKTON: I know I, I know I gave her a hundre-....
HOUSTON: Remember? And then she phoned and saying PB needed $150 bucks and she hassled you....
PICKTON: She always bribing me. She always been bribing me.
HOUSTON: Yeah. She said ff needed it and I can’t remember what it was for. I remember being there when she phoned. needed the $150 bucks whate-...
PICKTON: She’s alwa-, she’s always been bnbing me.
HOUSTON: And that would’ve been in the spring, probably been around April or May. I don’t remember.
YURKIW: So you’ve never taken any other prostitutes back to your trailer?
PICKTON: Not since this incident, no.
YURKIW: But before that incident? EE
PICKTON: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, nope. And like I says I wouldn’t even stop for her. But the problem is she fell in the road there and I said ‘are you okay? Are you okay?’ so... i
YURKIW: Did, uh, Lynn ever have you take her around to try and buy drugs?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Where would she want you to go?
HOUSTON: By the school.
PICKTON: Maryhill. Maryhill Road.
HOUSTON: Yeah, yeah..
PICKTON: And even....
HOUSTON: That’s by where and by, tolls. byMPs. That was over by that school. Maybe eS that was by Maryhill..
PICKTON: Ooh, I just fe-, I’m just getting shivers when I even think of oh that little bitch.
YURKIW: What’s Is last name? '
PICKTON: I ton’ even know it..
HOUSTON: I don’t know. I’ve got the number at home somewhere. I could, I...
PICKTON: I don’t even know it.
HOUSTON: Never even thought about it.
PICKTON: I, the don’t even wanna think of the fucking broad. '
HOUSTON: (Laughs) |.
PICKTON: Oooh.
HOUSTON: She’s got two really young kids too, though.
YURKIW: ‘Cause Lynn, uh, indicated to us that you were so upset by that, um, prostitute knifing you that, uh, you wanted to get back at her. That you wanted to go downtown and find her again and.....
HOUSTON: No.
PICKTON: Who, who’s this?
YURKIW: Well, Lynn’s alleging that that’s what you wanted to do. You wanted to find that prostitute. No?
PICKTON: No. Definitely not. I mean, myself, she can stay right where she is. I mean I wish she was on the board. (Laughs)... I just, like I said I don’t have...
YURKIW: ~— -You’re afraid.
PICKTON: I had my share of it..
HOUSTON: He’s saying if he never sees her again he’d be happy.
PICKTON: Never. a
YURKIW: Your’re referring to what ‘board’? You said...
PICKTON: On the, where all the people or whatever.
YURKIW: Out front there in the office?
PICKTON: Yeah, yeah.
YURKIW: Um, speaking of that, um, it’s been alleged that you may have had something to do with one or two of those prostitutes. No?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: Would you, um, going back to the, um, the prostitute you did have in your trailer, you had handcuffs, why did you have handcuffs?
PICKTON: J always have them there.
YURKIW: = What for?
PICKTON: Well, you, uh, you haven’t been out, you haven’t been around there too much.
YURKIW: I’ve been there. It’s a basically a huge farm that you’re moving a lot of earth and you got a lot of trucks in and out.
PICKTON: Yeah. Yeah, but the problem is I mean we got so many people coming in and around out there all the time. The problem is I don’t have no, no weapons, no i @ nothing. I don’t have nothing. And the problem is there is no law saying you e can’t have handcuffs or anything.
YURKIW: No, you’re right but I’m just wondering what you’d want them for.
PICKTON: I mean I had people coming in and out of there. mean you just don’t know. I mean I’m ba-, I’m down there by myself. I’m down there by myself. That’s all I am. I mean I just want to, I just do my own little thing down there, that’s it.
YURKIW: Okay, so what would you use the handcuffs for?
PICKTON: For other people that come down there. Whatever, I mean, I mean from the from the back and everything else. r
HOUSTON: JIfyou’re down there by yourself and someone breaks in what do you do? If you can get ‘em down you handcuff ‘em. -.
PICKTON: Well, well, you don’t, you don’t have, you don’t got nothing, you don’t got nothing. 7
YURKIW: Well..
PICKTON: You're by yourself.
YURKIW: I’ve been down there Bob. You’ve got lots of tools I mean but regardless...
PICKTON: Yeah, I got a lot of tools and I lost lots of those, lots. I lost a lot of tools. r
YURKIW: Regardless. You’re also known to, you buy and slaughter pigs?
PICKTON: Uh, yes I do.
YURKIW: Is that a business as well, a part of your business?.
PICKTON: Ido that in, in spare time yes.
YURKIW: Okay and that’s for your own consumption?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Or other people or?
PICKTON: For a few other people.
HOUSTON: (inaudible) me and some of my friends that are on welfare. They, he slaughters |, pigs for us.
YURKIW: So vou buy the pigs what, at the auction?
PICKTON: Yeah. Weaner ©
YURKIW: Full size pigs, they’re not wéerers or?
PICKTON: Uh, whatever. Whatever somes through at a time.
YURKIW: Okay, so how... |,
PICKTON: Cheap ones.
YURKIW: Yeah..
PICKTON: (inaudible)...have a lot of money.
YURKIW: How often, or how long do you keep them for? Like do you have to feed them as you’re....
PICKTON: Sometimes, yeah. Some, sometimes, some, uh, sometimes I take them back to sell.
YURKIW: Yeah. e
PICKTON: I buy ‘em for 5, 10, 15 or $20.00. I take it back and get a $100 for it. vuRKIW. Feed them up.
PICKTON: Uh, nol don't even feed them up. Just take ‘em back next week..
YURKIW: Depending on the price of pork.
HOUSTON: Yeah.
PICKTON: (inaudible).
YURKIW: Now, you slaughter the pigs, but who does the butchering?
HOUSTON: We do our own butchering. He’ll cut it in nal or quarters. (Laughs) @
PICKTON: I just, 1, yeah (inaudible)...
YURKIW: So, um, does anybody help you with this?
PICKTON: What do you mean, what do you mean help me? 7
YURKIW: When you’re slaughtering the pigs and butchering them, does somebody help you do it?
PICKTON: Yes, yes, Pat.
YURKIW: Pat.
PICKTON: Yes. Pat Casanova. 7
YURKIW: Okay. And who does the, like do you store it in the freezer?
PICKTON: Yeah. |.
YURKIW: Okay. Who does the wrapping and all that?
PICKTON: There’s no wrapping.
YURKIW: You don’t wrap them. -. |..
HOUSTON: He just gives them to us in halves or quarters Depending on how big it is we take it home and do whatever with it ourselves. y e
YURKIW: = Okay. Um, what are your facilities for doing that like, um, how did you learn to slaughter them?
PICKTON: I’ve been doing it for years.
YURKIW: Did you work in a slaughter house or?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: = No?,
PICKTON: No, I did it for the most I did in one year was, uh, one day it was 23 head.
YURKIW: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: And I was working from 7 0’clock in the morning ‘til 3 o’clock the following morning.
YURKIW: So when you slaughter a pig you, uh, kill it first. Do you kill it before you string it up? Like....
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Okay. So what do you, what method do you use for killing them? I know with. sheep you have a sort of a gun thing.
PICKTON: Yeah, J got like a, uh, like I made myself my own little, little gun there. a. 32
YURKIW: Okay..
PICKTON: It’s, uh, it’s made out of (inaudible)... ence go
YURKIW: Yeah, and so it vost goes into the...
PICKTON: . Yeah, right in the brain.
YURKIW: And then you hook them up. Do you have a, what, block and tackle or something?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: And... ad
PICKTON: And then they come and put in hot water and all the hair comes off and clean ‘em right up from there.
YURKIW: = Okay. So what do you have for, for hot water. What do you use for that? Like do you have a boiler or?
PICKTON: Veah uh, big just a brow-, round barrel.
YURKIW: Okay. How hot? Like is it over a flame?
PICKTON: A hundred-, 130, 140, 140 degrees.
YURKIW: Okay, so they go into the water and then you hook them up? And then peel the @ skin off them?. . 33
PICKTON: No, no, no, no, no. You put them in water vou, the hair comes off.
YURKIW: The hair comes off.
PICKTON: Then you put “em on top of the table and you, you clean it right off there.
YURKIW: Yeah. »
PICKTON: Then (inaudible)
YURKIW: Okay. slow long does it take to do a pig? e
PICKTON: Uh, (inaudible) I guess about 20, 25 minutes to do a pig.
YURKIW: Now when you hang them out and I know with some animals like wild meat and that, you hang them and you bleed them out. De you do that with pigs too?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Okay. So you bleed them out and then that....
PICKTON: And you put it in hot water.
YURKIW: Okay. Hot water after bleeding them out. And then what steps from there?
PICKTON: Put it wp on the table. r
YURKIW: Okay. oo e
PICKTON: And you hoist ‘em and clean ‘em up.
YURKIW: Do you havea place to hang the meat for curing or anything or?
PICKTON: 1, I just got a small cooler. |.
YURKIW: Okay. Now how do you dispose of all the remains? Like does somebody buy it off you or what do you use it for? Like there’s gonna be...
HOUSTON: The place downtown, ;.
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: There’s gonna be remains. Where do you take it to like a rendering plant?.
PICKTON: Yeah. Westcoast.
YURKIW: And what form is it-in when you take it there? Is it in, uh...
PICKTON: Barrels..
YURKIW: Barrels.
PICKTON: Uh, do they mean, Westcoast was picking up from me for 20 years.
YURKIW: They come in and pick up from you? Okay, you don’t have to transport the... r
PICKTON: I didn’t, uh, until wt recently for, uh, because I wasn’t doing that much.. — y a
YURKIW: ~— Okay.
PICKTON: Uh, uh, like I says I was doing anywhere’s around 50, 60 a week, 70 a week. sometimes, sometimes a lot more.
YURKIW: Okay. But you don’t do that much anymore.
PICKTON: [bring in maybe 15, 10. I don’t have (inaudible) anything else. Things slow down from after Christmas..
YURKIW: Oh, it’s just because of the time of year. And because there’s not as many pigs being born?
PICKTON: Oh, no, lots out there and the price of the pigs are cheap. But I don’t wa-, I don’t want any, I don’t. I wanna get out of it this year. I want to retire. I mean I was gonna close up.
YURKIW: = You’re closing up. Now I heard a rumour you sold the place.
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: No? You didn’t, some developer didn’t want to come in and buy that? Oh, “cause,. they’re developing all around you. A golf course on one side.
PICKTON: A golf course not gonna be developed.
YURKIW: And then all the new, uh, homes behind you
PICKTON: (inaudible) the homes behind us, that was our property. We sold the property to the houses.
YURKIW: Oh, you did. I didn’t realize that was part of yours already.
HOUSTON: All the way back to Cedar, Cedar Drive..
YURKIW: How many acres did you have there?
PICKTON: Forty.
YURKIW: Forty acres. And what have you got left? e}
PICKTON: 23.
YURKIW: So you sold off 17 acres. Okay. You guys got money in the bank then.
PICKTON: Well, we pro-, one pro-, one piece of property there for 1.3 million and that, uh, - that’s why (inaudible)
YURKIW: You're moving out there? Where’s that?
PICKTON: Um, Burns Road.
HOUSTON: Just around the corner. Go down (inaudible)...toward’s the dike. They even plowed (inaudible) place over.
PICKTON: Well, we cleaned a lot of it, lot, lot of it up there already. It was a hell of a mess e before.
YURKIW: So, I’ve been by and you’ve g-, got in a ton of dirt. Is that just because you get paid for people that don’t, don’t (inaudible) houses?.
PICKTON: Where’s the dirt?
YURKIW: The front of the road.
PICKTON: No. We brought the dirt from the back.
YURKIW: Oh.
PICKTON: To the front.
YURKIW: ~~ What’s the purpose of that?
PICKTON: For (inaudible).
YURKIW: Okay, and you save up all the top sil.
PICKTON: Hmm? (SIDE A ends) So (SIDEB:)
YURKIW: Oh the tape is just going the other way now..
PICKTON: Oh. There’s top soil from the back to the front.. e
YURKIW: Okay..
PICKTON: That’s all that is. That’s (inaudible) for settling...
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: ... for weight.
YURKIW: What are they gonna build there?.
PICKTON: Townhouses.
YURKIW: So your brother’s moving too? e
PICKTON: Yeah, I guess we all gotta move (laughs)
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
PICKTON: We (inaudible) the house back in 1967, the house there... ‘67... ‘67, yeah.
YURKIW: So when do you have to be out of there?
PICKTON: . Oh we haven’t sold it yet..
YURKIW: Oh, okay. Still waiting for somebody to come and give you an offer.
PICKTON: I mean you can’t, you can’t just suddenly go up and gone, you know what I mean. y e
YURKIW: Yeah. But you put a, an offer in on that other place, or you bought it?
PICKTON: What place?
YURKIW: = The $1.3 million.
PICKTON: Oh we bought that, we bought that, we bought that back in ‘98, ‘97, ‘96 (inaudible).
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: ‘96 (inaudible) we ought that place.
YURKIW: And you’re trying to sell what’s left there now then?
PICKTON: Yeah, and hopefully it’s gonna increase and you know so we can get more cattle, cattle (inaudible).
YURKIW: Yeah. 7
PICKTON: No, the problem is right where we are here, then there’s another piece of land right on this one side...
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: ... right behind that... and we’ve got a fair lease on that place right now...
YURKIW: Okay. an
PICKTON: ... but he doesn’t want to sell until he retires...
YURKIW: = Uh huh..
PICKTON: ... cause his taxes are going (inaudible) too much. (Inaudible)
YURKIW: Yeah. Okay, um what would you say if we asked you to consent to a polygraph? What would you think of that?
PICKTON: I don’t know. I don’t think so, not nght now.
YURKIW: No. What’s makes you unsure?
PICKTON: Um] mean like I said I should talk to my lawyer before you know... I haven’t... like I says I’m not hiding anything or anything, but...
CATER: See it has nothing to do with the incident back in ‘97 there because like we’ve already said you can’t be charged for that or anything. We just wanted your read on it because obviously we had some allegations here and everything. For — - example we didn’t really go through it as well as we should have for example in New West there. Like the prostitutes there, some of them have picked you out of photo lineups
PICKTON: I don’t know nothing...
CATER: ... and they were saying...
PICKTON: ... about that. e
CATER: Well do you frequent prostitute strolls?
PICKTON: Do I what?
CATER: Do you frequent them? Do you go there often to prostitute strolls? Like for example 12th Street in New West is well known for a prostitute stroll..
PICKTON: No. No.
HOUSTON: When was this incident because I don’t know if you guys are aware that during the spring time like I had his, his main vehicle for like five months?
CATER: Well actually Mr. PICKTON himself was picked out, his face and his plate. @
HOUSTON: But had the (inaudible), I had the...
CATER: I’m speaking to Mr. PICKTON though. I’m just asking you you know because...
PICKTON: No.,
CATER: . it’s... we like...
PICKTON: No.
CATER: ... to try and uh, you know...
PICKTON: Yeah... oe o e
CATER: ... 1f these allegations are true or not...
PICKTON: ... l agree..
CATER: ... then we need to get your opinion of course.
PICKTON: [agpree...
CATER: There’s a couple of sides to every story...
PICKTON: ... but I don’t...,
CATER: ... of course, right. So if you can help us out in this regard that would be good... e
PICKTON: Yeah, but...
CATER: ... because you did seem a little bit irritated when that was presented by Constable YURKIW that uh, as if you surprised to be picked up.
PICKTON: I was really more surprised because the problem is I wasn’t even around Westminster too much..
CATER: You see the incident in ‘97 too it wouldn’t be first time... Would that be the first you’ ve ever used the services of a prostitute...
PICKTON: Yes. Yes.. r
CATER: ... whether or not they’ve come back to your place? e
PICKTON: That’s the only time.
CATER: The only time. And it resulted in that kind of an event with handcuffs?
PICKTON: That’s the only time.
CATER: So nothing previous to that?.
PICKTON: No.
CATER: So you’ve... e
HOUSTON: There... okay my old roommate, her name was a. okay.
CATER: That’s uh...
HOUSTON: He used to go downtown and pick her up. He used to go down there and look for her for me and bring her home. She would phone really screwed up so yeah he frequent looking for her to bring her home for me, cause she would phone and say I’m (inaudible). She’d been on like a ten day bender and he’d go bring her, bring her home.
CATER: So she was a working lady?
HOUSTON: Yeah.
CATER: Yeah.. © :.
HOUSTON: So yeah he did frequent, but not frequent to look for girls, he was frequently looking for... She’d phone and want to come home. -
YURKIW: Which was this?
HOUSTON: Qi. Her name‘
CATER: Cause that’s the kind of stuff we need to clear up in hearing it from vou, ight so.
PICKTON: I don’t know what ever happened to her. I’ve never seen her... TOUSTON: Yeah actually? ve been wondering too. [ haven’t heard from her for a while.
YURKIW: When did you last hear from her? -
HOUSTON: Oh my God, about a year ago I guess, year and a half ago. Thaven’t heard from her. I’ve even went down there a few times looking for her. I haven’t seen her or heard from her. Don’t know anyone that has.
PICKTON: That’s how I met uh Gina...
HOUSTON: Uh huh.
PICKTON: ... through her..
CATER: So you met this first?
PICKTON: Yeah. r
CATER: A working prostitute?
PICKTON: Yeah.
HOUSTON: She was hitchhiking to come home. She phoned me, she wanted a ride home, I couldn’t find no one to give her a ride home... —
PICKTON: ) No, but Mr. PICKTON met first?
HOUSTON: Yeah.
PICKTON: Yeah. -
HOUSTON: ... he was... she as hitchhiking, he brought her home..
CATER: She'as working downtown at the time?
HOUSTON: No. a
PICKTON: Yeah. No, I don’t think...
HOUSTON: She was working.’
PICKTON: She wasn’t, what wasn’t working.
HOUSTON: She was on her way home.
PICKTON: I mean but the problem is that J mean I was, I was pulled over to one side of the oa road because...
HOUSTON: No, not... My IP We’re talking about my I.
PICKTON: Yeah.
HOUSTON: She was on her way home, she’d been phoning for a ride home. He picked her up hitchhiking and brought her home.
PICKTON: Sometimes I, I, I go down uh and pass out, you know I mean IJ just park my truck <_ over to one side because after, after when you’re working a full day, a long... you know long days...
CATER: Ub huh,
PICKTON: ... and the problem is you’ve gotta be there when the, before the guys get there and you’ve gotta get there, you’ve gotta leave there after to make sure it’s all secured.
CATER: Oh I can appreciate that, but it’s just, you know it’s relatively unusual to be picking up a working lady who works the streets for several hours and you happen, to catch her on her way home as if you’re helping a hitchhiker rather than. somebody who is obviously working the streets in the sex trade.
PICKTON: But the problem is like I mean I was pulled over on the si-, I was on the side of. the road there, she knocks on the wi-, on the door, says uh you, you need, so you, you want some company or whatever and... Was this before? This is, this is @ after.. , id e 47
HOUSTON: No, this is before. This was like... this was in....
PICKTON: So this was afterwards.
HOUSTON: No, this is before you... before [QM This was in January, think it may have been January, the end of January.
PICKTON: Okay, I’m not...
HOUSTON: (Inaudible) January. °
PICKTON: ... ’mnot too sure. Anyways like I says I was on, I was on the side of the road there and then uh, and she knocked on the window there and (inaudible)... I can’t @ remember cause I’m going back a while now. Anyways uh like I says oh yeah no problem and so I says okay no problem. Yeah I think this was before, it was before.
HOUSTON: It was before.
PICKTON: It was before.
CATER: What are you saying, before what?
HOUSTON: Before VIC97]
PICKTON: Before, before the other girl.
CATER: Before ‘97
HOUSTON: It was like a month before the incident with TE that he was going up and. down. He brought BB ome that one time and...
CATER: Uh buh. |.
HOUSTON: ... we started talking to him after that and there’d be a few times she’d be phoning cause she...
CATER: So that would be two women quite by chance within the period of a month that Mr. PICKTON has picked up...
PICKTON: Uh hub. r
CATER: ... who are working in the sex trade..
HOUSTON: Nothing happen between him...,,
CATER: And the second one happened.... PICKTON. No.
CATER: ... to have an incident. |, Houston: he brough ii straight home.
PICKTON: Yeah. e
CATER: No, I’m just saying the second one happened to end up in an incident.. y rs a)
PICKTON: Yeah..
CATER: And whereas the first one, what happened there? Did you bring her to her house or...?.
PICKTON: NolJI,1...
HOUSTON: No, my house.
PICKTON: She said she wanted a ride back to PoCo.
CATER: I see. Do you remember what kind of... what time of the day that would have e been like?
PICKTON: Night time.
CATER: Okay. But let’s just say working ladies work until like early in the morning or would you have been out all night?.
PICKTON: No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. 7
HOUSTON: It was about 10:00, 10:30.
PICKTON: About uh 10:00, 11:00.
HOUSTON: Somewhere in there, yeah, r
CATER: In the evening? y wns
PICKTON: Yeah.
CATER: Okay. In and around January? -
PICKTON: Yeah.
CATER: And that would ‘97?
PICKTON: Yeah.
CATER: Cause that’s unusual for a working girl to be coming home at that time.
HOUSTON: Nol would go, go ona five, six day binge or whatever and then she’d want to @ come home to sleep and then she’d want to go back, right, so that’s... She’d come home and she’d be oh I don’t want to do this anymore, I don’t want to do drugs, I want to get my life straight and she’d come home and after about four or five days the itch would be on and she’d want to go back and she’d be gone four or five days and then she’d be back.
CATER: How long had you known her?.
PICKTON: (Inaudible)
HOUSTON: (Inaudible) years.
CATER: Yeah. Who, who was her man? Was she working for somebody? 7 e
HOUSTON:
CATER: No (inaudible) guys?
HOUSTON: She had an incident with... oh what was his name?... the black dude... what was his name? Damn I can picture him.
PICKTON: Did she have a pimp she was working for?
HOUSTON: It was a pimp, yeah.
CATER: That would help if you could recall that.
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
CATER: So Mr. PICKTON you can, you can understand a little bit of concern there from our point cause that’s, it’s, it’s unusual. I mean do you frequent the area down there? Do you recall where...
PICKTON: No. |.
CATER: .. you picked her up from?
PICKTON: Mm...
CATER: Approximately.
PICKTON: ] think right around Church’s.
HOUSTON: Church’s on Hastings. I think 7 oe
PICKTON: Yeah. 7 HOUSTON. _... Hastings and Nanaimo, is it? ;.
PICKTON: Yeah.
HOUSTON: Yeah.
CATER: In the City of Vancouver though.
PICKTON: Yeah.
HOUSTON: Yeah.
CATER: Okay.
PICKTON: Cause I’m working out there and I’m on my way home.
CATER: Church’s is Church’s Chicken? ‘
PICKTON: Yeah. I’m on my way out coming, coming out of Vancouver. '
HOUSTON: I can’t remember his name. I know his main woman was MMS they called her. GMSRS I remember her name was SRS her nickname. I know exactly what he looks like, but I couldn’t tell you what his name was. I can’t remember it. She had a really bad incident anyway. I guess she didn’t want to go out one night and he turned her over and did some things to her that she’d never had done to her in s her life. e
CATER: If you recall that as we’re talking I'd appreciate that. That’s fine, P'll let you think about that..
PICKTON: All [know, I know he took her out to the auction a couple of times, I mean at the uh, uh not...
HOUSTON: Fraser Valley?
PICKTON: No, not the Fraser Valley, no she never went...
CATER: This was after though, right..
PICKTON: Yeah, e oo
CATER: And then she became more ofa....
PICKTON: Yeah, just a friend.
CATER: Would you describe her as, friend?
PICKTON: Yeah.
CATER: Did you ever drop her off back down to work?
PICKTON: Yeah, I took her (inaudible)
HOUSTON: (Inaudible)
CATER: Like to work the stroll?
PICKTON: Yeah. |.
CATER: Okay.
PICKTON: Yeah, I took her back to Vancouver a few times, yes.
CATER: Okay. So then there’s certainly reason why you would have been seen on several occasions for example in a prostitution stroll.
HOUSTON: Oh yeah. There’s been a few times I’ve asked him to take me down there too. (inaudible). e
CATER: Yeah. Oh I understand.
HOUSTON: AndIcan...
CATER: I was asking Mr. PICKTON though.
PICKTON: Yeah but... no, no I did take her down there and uh I mean I know one time we went out to the auction there and she says uh shé was bored there.
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
PICKTON: Uh that was at the uh, at Ross’ auction.
HOUSTON: Oh yeah. Appended Pickton interview by Yurkiv Ps
PICKTON: And she was bored there. And uh...
CATER: Did she use drugs?
PICKTON: I don’t know. I have never even seen her use it.
CATER: Alright.
PICKTON: Because the problem is I’ve been just on the road all the time.
CATER: Oh no it’s clear you’re a hard working man.
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
CATER: Ws just (inaudible).
PICKTON: No, no I'd be on, I’d be on, I'd be on the road. Like I mean sometimes she phones me up at 9:00 or 10:00 o’clock at night, hey I need a ride to go to... no big deal I'll give you a ride.
YURKIW: = What vehicle did you usually use?
PICKTON: UhaZ24. a
YURKIW: That’s a, what a (inaudible)?
HOUSTON: No, at the time it was a red one, first, when you first met her is that red truck... @ red truck puddle jumper they called it, the red one with the black bars. The Chev, —_ ® I think it was a Chev, a red Chevy..
PICKTON: Yeah, but J (inaudible) that.
HOUSTON: You had that, you sold that about a month or vo after.
PICKTON: Okay, I had the Z24 too didn’t 1?
HOUSTON: Yeah you did, but the first, the first few times you... like when you first started “going down there...
PICKTON: Yeah, yeah it was ared... yeah, yeah, right, yeah right.
HOUSTON: A G-... I think it was a GM.
PICKTON: . Yeah, that’s the one.
YURKIW: A Z24, is thata....
HOUSTON: Car..
PICKTON: Yeah.
CATER: That’s a Cavalier, yeah.
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: ‘92 model. |. Ps
YURKIW: What colour? a
PICKTON: Hm?
YURKIW: What colour?
PICKTON: Black. four
YURKIW: So yeu-re red truck with black bars was sold?
PICKTON: Yeah, I sold it to Ross.
YURKIW: Okay, so any other incidents with women down there?
PICKTON: No.
CATER: It’s unusual just for a man you know of your age to only all of a sudden twice in a ad very short period of time, and [ understand you’ve explain’ why there could be reasons for you to be down there.
PICKTON: (Laughs)
CATER: But nobody else... Like there’s some, I take it there’s many occasions when you. doze off because you’ve been working hard all night or because you want to get there before the other guys do.
PICKTON: No, I gotta get... like I leave after when everybody else leaves because I make 6 sure it’s all... ra 58
CATER: Right.
PICKTON: ... secured and locked up and everything else.
CATER: And you’ve dozed off at other times I’m sure.
PICKTON: Sometimes I get really tired.
CATER: Right. But only twice have women, in particular sex trade workers...
PICKTON: (Inaudible).
CATER: .. knocked on your window? a
PICKTON: Oh yeah. Quite a few people knock on my window, I said no thanks, no thanks, no not today, no, no.
CATER: See this GB everybody knows, especially a, a sex trade worker who uses drugs. On that occasion when you first met her when she gets into your vehicle, being a nice guy or not to let her warm up, she would usually try and get some money out of you to perform some act.
PICKTON: I give her money, no problem.
CATER: Just like that?
PICKTON: Yeah. = e
CATER: Did she solicit you?.
PICKTON: No. No. No, I mean uh after we went... mean uh when I brought her over uh the first night there, it was a foggy night...
HOUSTON: She already had dope on her when he picked her up.
CATER: Uh huh.
HOUSTON: She did have the dope, she didn’t...
PICKTON: But I think she come to PoCo and get the drugs, drugs from PoCo there. r
HOUSTON: No, she siready had the drugs when you picked her up. I think she got twenty bu- Ldon’t know she told you...
PICKTON: Well Pm, I’m... HOUSTON. _... she needed milk and cigarettes...
PICKTON: ...?m not sure.
HOUSTON: ... and something stupid that night. She wanted an extra twenty bucks in case she didn’t have enough dope to tas ight, right. As soon as she got in the door...
PICKTON: I keep thinking... e
HOUSTON: (Laug e
PICKTON: ... you’re a fuckin’ little bitch. Jesus Christ, you know the little bitch almost - killed me.
CATER:
HOUSTON: 9
PICKTON: [RB
CATER: on i
PICKTON: (Inaudible) think QgggR@jis. |. Se
HOUSTON: [and M@BJactually knew each other..
CATER: Which is not necessarily uncommon..
HOUSTON: No..
CATER: Uh uh.
HOUSTON: That’s not Lynn ELLINGSEN, that would be [EE EE
YURKIW: Mm.
PICKTON: . Yeah, it’s not the same o e
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
CATER: No, for sure.
PICKTON: Uh huh.
CATER: So since that occasion in ‘97, aside from this, the New West incident...
PICKTON: Oh God J hate thinking (inaudible).
CATER: ... have you been, any reason to be around the 12th Street stroll at all? e
PICKTON: No, never did.,
CATER: Other than the occasions...
PICKTON: Never did.
CATER: ... when the women have picked you out. |,
PICKTON: Never did.
CATER: Okay.
PICKTON: Honestly, never did, never did.
CATER: Is there any cause for business in New West at all? eo e 62
PICKTON: Uh I go to Wes Military Supplies uh on Ist Avenue, on Front Street.
YURKIW: = Military Supplies. What do you get there?
PICKTON: [just go there just, you know just to bullshit.
YURKIW: Do you buy any of their surplus stuff or anything like that?
PICKTON: Oh we always buy something, whatever you know. What uh, what are you referring to? Like I mean uh...
YURKIW: = Oh stuff that they’d only use for military purposes. Um sometimes they have uh different style binoculars. Um what else do they have? I’m trying to think. bd
CATER: Well he’s already stated he doesn’t have... You don’t have any weapons or. anything like that?
YURKIW: No.
CATER: No firearms or... |,
YURKIW: He can’t buy them....
CATER: ... at the house?
YURKIW: ... at military supplies anyhow. e
CATER: No. No perhaps not. Any clothing or anything, items that you buy? y e
PICKTON: No, no, no.
CATER: Not your fashion?
PICKTON: No, no, no I’m not... don’t like the, the.. P've gota...
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
PICKTON: ... truck at my place which is, is camouflage like I mean, but this guy here is uh... like what I got him for is a night, night, night watchman and the problem 1s I mean it didn’t work out for him so I says... so 1 got somebody else.
YURKIW: What did you get for the night watchman?
PICKTON: Ihadn’t... [had... This guy was a military and through Wesf Military Supplies...
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: ... Westley Military Supplies he got after me for me to get this guy to, for a night watchman or whatever. There’s no, no big deal and then I bought his truck off him at the end.
YURKIW: Who is that?
PICKTON: What’s his name?
YURKIW: Yeah. a 64 e
PICKTON: Uh or
HOUSTON: Bobby.
PICKTON: No, before him.
HOUSTON: Oh, oh that one.
PICKTON: The space cadet..
HOUSTON: Oh yeah, what is his name?
PICKTON: Uh... ad
HOUSTON: Uh him and Lynn, him and Lynn ELLINGSEN used to go (inaudible).
PICKTON: Yeah, yes.
HOUSTON: They were both crack maniacs too.
PICKTON: Um... |,
HOUSTON: Geez (inaudible). Not...
PICKTON: Geez I hate thinking about that fuckin’ little bitch.
HOUSTON: I can’t remember his name. |. e
PICKTON: Um don’t know what the hell his name was. It’s on the tip of my tongue. What. the hell is his name? It’s coming tome. Adrian.
HOUSTON: Yeah.
PICKTON: Adnan.
HOUSTON: Adrian (laughs).
CATER: Even I can’t do that sometimes eh.
PICKTON: Uh huh.
CATER: The memory.
PICKTON: Adrian.
HOUSTON: What... And you hired him through the, some guy at the military supply place.
PICKTON: Yeah Wes, Wes.
HOUSTON: Wes.
PICKTON: Yeah. You can give him a phone call if you want. I'll give you a number.
YURKIW: For Wes?
PICKTON: Yeah. e 66
YURKIW: Sure.
PICKTON: Uh his number there is um
YURKIW: So you’re kind of a regular in there are you?..
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: ~— Oh. —
PICKTON: [haven’t been in there for about a month or two.
YURKIW: Oh you’re just a friend.
PICKTON: Just go in there and just bullshit with him. |.
YURKIW: Yeah |,
PICKTON: And you can ask Wes about Adrian.
YURKIW: Why didn’t he work out as a night watchman?
PICKTON: Well him and Lynn was always...
HOUSTON: Smoking crack and hiding under the table (laughs) cause (inaudible) gonna get him. It doesn’t work too good being the night watchman if you’re hiding behind the curtain or you’re under the table
CATER: Nobody said it did good things to you.
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
CATER: You don’t do that kind of drug stuff, Mr. PICKTON? Do you drink alcohol?
PICKTON: No, no I don’t drink and I don’t smoke, I don’t use dings and everybody says how come you’re eyes are so bloodshot, I says from where I gotta work.
YURKIW: What do you do for entertainment?
PICKTON: Work. tC
YURKIW: = You son’ watch videos or go to the movies?
HOUSTON: Maybe once a year we go to the movies. We do that magic show at...
PICKTON: Yeah we went to the magic show.,
HOUSTON: ... 8th and 8th once... the Fireman’s thing at um... what do you call it... Massey Theatre.
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Noum....
PICKTON: [hada VCR and... “ |. e
HOUSTON: Pve got...
PICKTON: ... Lynn...
HOUSTON: ... the VCR..
PICKTON: Lynn got that and then....
HOUSTON: Oh, well I’ve got, I’ve got the one you’ve got now.
PICKTON: Yeah you’ve got the one... yeah.
YURKIW: So you basically just work all the time? You don’t uh have any activities you like e@ doing or...?.
PICKTON: Oh well I mean many years ago [ used to go fishing, a long time ago, that’s going back when I was you know...
YURKIW: ~~ A young kid..
PICKTON: Yeah. I’m going back a long time ago.
YURKIW: Have you ever married?.
PICKTON: No, _.
YURKIW: Never been married. ;. e
PICKTON: Almost, almost once. She was in Michigan -
YURKIW: = Uh huh.
PICKTON: ... and she didn’t want to come out and I didn’t want to go there.
YURKIW: Did you go to school around here?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: You grew up here? e
PICKTON: To Viscount.
YURKIW: Pardon ine?
PICKTON: Viscount The old Viscount.
YURKIW: = Yeah. |,
PICKTON: Uh huh. Not the new one. They’ve made a new one. AndI went to the high school. I went to Mary Hill.
YURKIW: Uh huh. So you just worked on the family property your whole life. Because these um rumours and allegations have come out what would you um say if we / asked if we could search your trailer, go through your trailer and have a look?
PICKTON: Whatever. a
YURKIW: You wouldn’t have any problem with that? There’s nothing in there that we'd find?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: Ifwe wanted uh samples out of the soil, what would you think of that?
PICKTON: Feel free.
HOUSTON: Yeah.
PICKTON: I’mnot...
HOUSTON: (Inaudible) environmental things, they’ve already been doing the sample things and stuff like that.
PICKTON: J’m not hiding anything.
YURKIW: Okay. So you say you’ve never had any other prostitutes out to the trailer. Why did Lynn leave your place?.
PICKTON: Well I don’t know, something about Dave and her didn’t get along and they had a. big fight and that was the end of it. All of a sudden she went bananas.
YURKIW: Dave your brother? What do you mean she went bananas?
PICKTON: Well Dave says I mean uh... oh well I’m not too sure what all happened cause I. [ was in the barn.
YURKIW: ~~ Uh huh.
PICKTON: Dave was in... I didn’t even know Dave was even there. And that was about it, that about all I can really say. Then the next thing the windows are broken, the window is broken. The window is still broken.
YURKIW: Window to what?
PICKTON: To the trailer.
YURKIW: To the trailer. Who broke that?
PICKTON: Lynn.
YURKIW: Doing what?
PICKTON: Well she’s well known to this. But uh Dave and Linda... uh no Dave and Lee-, Lynn... Dave and Lynn had a fight or whatever. (Inaudible) [ don’t know.
YURKIW: Do you know it was... what it was over? Dave didn’t tell you?
PICKTON: All IT know is... I’m not too sure:
YURKIW: And what happened after the fight?
PICKTON: She was moving out and she says I’m gonna use revenge against you two and this and that and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m well whatever. I mean I got the @ paramedics over there, helped her out. I mean she was almost dead there uh from as. _. 72 over-, from a drug overdose. I mean uh like I said I’m not... I don’t want to try to. hurt anybody or anything, but I mean why would J phone for the paramedics, I mean uh myself I mean if I was gonna to (inaudible) somebody I mean why ~ would I want to phone the paramedics or something I mean. And this uh... and they were there, they come there twice.
YURKIW: Any other women lived with you out there?
PICKTON: Uh yes..
YURKIW: Um who?
PICKTON: Um QE
YURKIW: And when did she live with you?
PICKTON: (EGS
YURKIW: ~~ Um like from what year to what year?
PICKTON: Oh] think she stayed with me for about eight months, a year.
YURKIW: Eight months in what year?
PICKTON: Eight months to a year, maybe a year and a half. Jt might be up to a year and a half. e
YURKIW: Was that in 1999 or 1998 or...? - e
PICKTON: Oh...
HOUSTON: ‘94, ‘95.
PICKTON: Yeah ‘9-... I’m, I’m not too sure. It would be after ‘94. ‘96, ‘97, something like that.
YURKIW: And was she a, a girlfriend or...?
PICKTON: Yeah, just a fend.
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: Just a friend.
YURKIW: How did you know her?
PICKTON: Um through GS Sa oe YuRKIW: ii
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Is she a relative or...?
PICKTON: IIC-PERS|. e@
YURKIW: Okay. y o e
PICKTON: And after that was uh Lee..
YURKIW: Lee? |,.
PICKTON: She stayed there wr about eight months. No longer than that. I mean....
HOUSTON: Yeah, she lived there quite a while..
PICKTON: Oh yeah.
HOUSTON: What’s Lee’s last name?
PICKTON: I don’t know. e
YURKIW: ~=Doyou...
PICKTON: She’s got a cellular. she’s got a pager, she’s got a pager. Uh....
HOUSTON: Well she was married to Dave. What’s Dave’s last name?
PICKTON: Dave...
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
PICKTON: (Inaudible) Dave, I call her. I don’t know. I don’t know.
HOUSTON: You probably know Lee. She’s a woman, she looks very masculine. Has a eS, Harley, a big twin, Harley twin engine tattoo here. Her boobs hang to her waist. e@ 75 She’s got sleeves and wears mass amounts of gold. She’s Native.
YURKIW: Okay, Native.
HOUSTON: And she does have... ’m sure she has a record. But she has a big Harley twin engine tattoo right wonkers right there.
YURKIW: Does she live local here?
HOUSTON:
PICKTON: Uh P| now. She was living in here for a while.
HOUSTON: Yeah she was... well you know what she was working when she lived in too.
PICKTON: Well I, I don’t even know.
CATER: Working in terms of what?
HOUSTON: Well working on the street. She said she wasn’t, but when I was out there a few times I seen her out there. I seen her standing on the side of the road. I can’t say. she was working cause I didn’t pick her up, but (laughs) she was on the side of the i road dolled up so1...
YURKIW: So she lived on your place for a while?
PICKTON:
YURKIW: Anybody else?
PICKTON: I don’t mind try-... I, I don’t mind helping people out (inaudible).
YURKIW: = Uh huh. :,
PICKTON: Cause a lot of people lived, lived there, but... I know one person from Saskatchewan came over. They were only there for two, three days and then they went back. I don’t know wha- whatever happened. Thank you for me staying, here and do I owe you anything. Oh no you owe nothing to me.
YURKIW: Who was that?.
PICKTON: Some girl who came from Saskatchewan.
YURKIW: Where did you meet her?.
PICKTON: Right on the property. They stroll nght in. But I’m going back a while. This is going I guess it’s twenty years ago, fifteen.
YURKIW: Oh okay, too long ago.
PICKTON: I don’t even know her name you know just...
YURKIW: Is your brother Dave married?
PICKTON: Um I don’t...no. No I guess he... no he never was married, he was living eS commo
YURKIW: Okay. And his common-law is not with him anymore?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: = Okay. So he lives alone in that house at the front of the property? a
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Tammy (inaudible).
PICKTON: Yeah. Tam-...
YURKIW: His daughter. - tC )
PICKTON: Tammy is his daughter. /.
YURKIW: Tammy...
PICKTON: Tammy. vuracw:... PICKTON? |.
PICKTON: Yeah,
YURKIW: Does she 1 by any other name? PICKTON. Uh Tammy HUMENI (ph). 6 HUME ANY “o e
YURKIW: Ohis that the mom’s last name?. a
PICKTON: No... yes.
YURKIW: Oh.
PICKTON: No.
HOUSTON: That’s the....
PICKTON: Yes. —_ |. HOUSTON.... step-dad’s last name (laughs).
PICKTON: But it is Dave’s daughter...
HOUSTON: Okay, Tammy HUMENY okay.
PICKTON: And then there’s D_J.
YURKIW: Who’s D.-...
PICKTON: David. David Junior.
YURKIW: And how old is he?
PICKTON: Uh Tammy was born in 197-, 1974, D.J. was bom in 1977.
YURKIW: Does uh D.J. work on the property too?
PICKTON: Uh yes, but he doesn’t stay there.
YURKIW: Oh where does he stay?
PICKTON: He stays at Bums Road..
YURKIW: = Ohhe lives on Bums Road.
HOUSTON: On their other property.
YURKIW: Okay, on the new property, okay. Does he: have a family?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: Hey you're a bunch of single guys with a lot of money.
HOUSTON: (Laughs)
YURKIW: That’s why you’ve got a lot of money eh..
HOUSTON: D.J. goes for the girlfriends.
PICKTON: I don’t... like I said [ don’t mind trying to help people out or whatever. I mean |. unless you’re not (inaudible).
CATER: Ml. this MBMMRBA what did she do? Did she do anything for a living or...? Am,
PICKTON: Yeah. She uh... right now she works at P| Or no, she doesn’t vork 1 I She. 7
HOUSTON: No, she just started at the new SMB as a manager, an assistant manager.
PICKTON: Ohreally. 7
HOUSTON: Is
PICKTON: I did not know that. a
HOUSTON: She... yeah... she was working at the track for a while for CI-PERS A. e then she was at [for a bit under well CI-PERS Fae track and P| PID shut down and uh yeah she’s working for a
PICKTON: Ohreally..
HOUSTON: Yeah.
CATER: When she was with you do you remember was she working at the time? Do you recall?,
PICKTON: She was working? No, uh she wasn’t really working, she was just... she uh... her mom was selling the, selling the house, she had no place to stay so I said no. problem.
HOUSTON: She did a little bit of horse teaching when she was staying with him.. e
CATER: Mm.
HOUSTON: Or riding lessons, whatever you call it.,
YURKIW: Oh yeah you had a horse because one of our investigators came to your place...,
PICKTON: I’ve got lots of horses.
YURKIW: Youstill have some?.
PICKTON: Yeah. e
HOUSTON: He’s got some at his place, some at my place (laughs).
YURKIW: Because the investigator said you had mounted the horse’s head.
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: That really stood out in her mind.
PICKTON: Yeah, 1977 it was bor, the first day of Spring and my mother’s birthday.
YURKIW: The horse was. Oh
PICKTON: Yeah. And then I was helping two other girls out and they brought their horses over. Their horses, their horses kicked my horse, broke his back leg.
YURKIW: Oh..
PICKTON: Right through the knuckle: If it was on the bone I could repair it, but it was night through the knuckle, I couldn’t repair it. I put it down the first day of Winter, December 21st, 1981. Four years and nine months exactly.
YURKIW: Wow youve got quite a memory for those things eh..
CATER: Ijust... I need memory like that. Y
YURKIW: Yeah. And Lee...
PICKTON: The biggest thing of course it’s my mother’s birthday, 1977..
YURKIW: When... You said your mom died in 1979? |,
PICKTON: Yeah..
YURKIW: What did she die of?. a
PICKTON: Cancer.. - VURKIW: And your dad?
PICKTON: And she was 68. My dad was 77 and he died in 1977. And he died of old age. e@ And my brother died really between heart broken and uh cancer.
YURKIW: Your brother or mother?.
PICKTON: No, my mother. os
YURKIW: = Yeah. And you don’t have... you just have uh Dave and Linda as family still?
PICKTON: Yeah, my brother Dave and my sister Linda.
YURKIW: Yeah.. e
PICKTON: And there’s nobody else in the phone book besides us, that’s it.
YURKIW: small clan.
HOUSTON: Uh huh.
PICKTON: YeahI don’t know what you want to call it, but 1 mean there’s just me, my sister and my brother. Uh my sister’s not even in there now. Just me and my brother now..
YURKIW: Does your sister have kids?
PICKTON: Yeah, two. 1] have never seen them. I heard they're big kids.
YURKIW: = You don’t get along? ~ e
PICKTON: Me and my sister never really, we never really did get along...
YURKIW: No. |.
PICKTON: ... because the problem is the farm is supposed to be mine and oy sister shouldn’t be involved cause J] worked my buns off all my life and she just moved in...
HOUSTON: She’s very prim and proper. She doesn’t like the mud on the farm (laughs).
YURKIW: Linda never married? os a
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: But she still uses prox TON?
PICKTON: No. I don’t think she does, I think she uses WRIGHT now.
YURKIW: Okay, Linda WRIGHT, okay.
PICKTON: But I think she’s divorced.
YURKIW: Is she younger than you?.
PICKTON: Older.
YURKIW: Older. Oh how old would she be?
PICKTON: Ub think there’s two years difference. as think. I e can’t be before that. We had, we had another girl but she was, uh she died on (inaudible).
YURKIW: Okay.
CATER: This is going to run out.
YURKIW: Yeah. Do you want to grab another one?
CATER: Excuse me. (End of Side ‘B’) (SIDE C:)
YURKIW: Previous tape ended at 8:33. We’re having a bit of a pause here for a minute, gathering my thoughts. Um, you can’t recall why Lynn ELLINGSEN left.
PICKTON: Well, the biggest thing is too much drugs and dope and I wanted, I wanted, I mean the (inaudible) anymore..
YURKIW: Did she have any influence on Tammy HUMENY, your niece?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: They had no interaction together? Uh, what’s Tammy’s involvement there at the farm? Does she.... oe. e
PICKTON: Just stays there.
YURKIW: She just stays there. Does she have a job otherwise?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: No?
PICKTON: She’s, uh, still going to school.
YURKIW: Oh, where does she go to school?
PICKTON: University I guess. ad
YURKIW: ~— Okay. Good for her. Um, and who is her mother?.
PICKTON: Her mother is Sandy..
YURKIW: Sandy HUMEN}?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: Prior to that it used to be Sandy PICKTON I guess..
YURKIW: (Laughs) yeah. y i Yd] feHdlAUEee
PICKTON: And before that it used to be Sandy FEY EAR (ph). eats fell ce Hf fh
YURKIW: EEvEAR That was her... Ce bbe Fk
PICKTON: FEYDAR.
YURKIW: That was her maiden name?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: That’s different isn’t it? FEA LAE CHATER: (inaudible) FEYLAR?
PICKTON: F-E...F-E...Flower I guess. That’s (inaudible).
YURKIW: = Okay. Now we were talking about going out to your, your trailer and having a look through it. We would of course need your consent before we did anything like that.
PICKTON: Mmm hmm.
YURKIW: And it could take a while. Uh, if we were to....
PICKTON: I don’t have nothing to hide.
YURKIW: ..set that up for next week we could do that? a> e
PICKTON: No problem.
YURKIW: I'd have to get approval through our end first and...
PICKTON: . No problem.
YURKIW: = Okay.
PICKTON: Bring boots.
YURKIW: Yeah. I’ve been out there, yeah.
PICKTON: Yeah. e
YURKIW: And, uh, we’d have to make arrangements too so you didn’t have the dog...
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: ....ready to chew our arm off. |,
PICKTON: No, the dogs are in, in the kennel.
YURKIW: Are they?
PICKTON: And, uh, mostly in....
HOUSTON: His dogs actually are at my place right now. e
PICKTON: Yeah (inaudible).
HOUSTON: Yeah.
PICKTON: (inaudible)
HOUSTON: And the dogs that are there belong in the house.
PICKTON: [ain’t got nothing to hide..
YURKIW: Now, getting back to the things Lynn said, um, because we haven’t been privy to a lot of these things we need your clarification on it. She’s telling us, okay, that.. she saw you in the barn with a woman hanging there and that you were skinning @ this woman. Now you’ ve described to me how you process a pig, that you don’t skin it.
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Why would she say these things?
PICKTON: I don’t know. She says the, all I know is she said something about that she says - she’s gonna use revenge for she says she wants money ‘cause, uh, she, she smells. money in that place.
YURKIW: But how could she get revenge by saying things like this? I mean the only thing she’s...
PICKTON: I don’t know. fo. @ othe wet.,
YURKIW: ...gonna be party to an event-
PICKTON: I don’t know.
YURKIW: What would be her motive in doing this?
PICKTON: =I don’t know. I don’t know.
YURKIW: Like ho-, you guys must’ ve ha-, there must be some more, as they say, issues here than what you’re telling us. Like what was your everyday interaction with Lynn?
PICKTON: Well, she’d always be in the one room and with her friends. Her, she brings Tom, Dick and Harry in which I’m not happy about. She brings a van in there and she © says she was gonna load all this here stuff out. I said ‘I don’t think so.’ She says she needs money. I says, so gave her some more money and this and that. That’s (inaudible).
YURKIW: What do you mean, uh, Tom, Dick and Harry?
PICKTON: She’d bring the big van in there and she was sorta, she wants to take all this, you know, she wants me to empty, empty her van, empty the big van out and they says they’re gonna come back and pick it up. I says ‘I don’t think so. You just take the. van outta here.’
YURKIW: ~~ What was in the van?
PICKTON: I don’t know. Don’t have a clue. I says ‘I’m not even interested’ just out t
YURKIW: But who are these guys?,
PICKTON: I don’t know. Don’t know.
YURKIW: Were they...
PICKTON: She just met ‘em on the street. I don’t know.
CATER: Did she invite them in? Like did they stay in your trailer with her?
PICKTON: I mean! kicked them all out. I kicked them all out and then all of a sudden she went off the deep end and I says ‘hey, the arrangements are that you’re stay1-, you’re supposed to stay here, not everybody else.’ I mean at the end mean, I r ) mean, uh, she tried to burn my place down a couple times there. She had the heat up to a hundred some odd degrees and I, I just went “enough’s enough.” J mean, just like I says, I don’t mind trying to help her out or everything else. But I don’t know.
CATER: But if you were helping her out, there would be no cause for her to try and get any revenge on you for anything then.,.
PICKTON: Well...
HOUSTON: (inaudible) won’t give her money.
CATER: Or was there something else going on?
PICKTON: Well, J was giving her money. a
HOUSTON: He was trusting her. He wasn’t believing me when I said she spent the money on dope. Me and him used to fight about it. I said ‘don’t give her any money. She’s spending it on dope’ and me and him would argue about it and sure enough she was spending it on dope. It took a long time for him to believe that. And once he, started believing it and not giving her money, that’s when problems really started
PICKTON: Big time, big time.
CATER: Why were you giving her money then?.
PICKTON: She says she needed money for this, she needed money for that and she had to do.. this. And sh-, but she lies so much. Every second word’s a lie. e
HOUSTON: Her dog (inaudible)
CATER: Yeah, but you were helping her out, you gave her a place to stay and you also gave her money, right?
PICKTON: That’s very tmie. Very, very true.
CATER: That’s quite kind. What motivated you to do that?
PICKTON: Very, very true.
CATER: What motivated you to do that?.
PICKTON: [always do that. Well, what’s wrong with giving somebody money? ry
CATER: ‘Nothing, I guess but it’s unusual these days.
PICKTON: Well, I don’t have no problem with that.
CATER: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: I mean I give Gina money..
HOUSTON: He’s always helping me out.
YURKIW: Did her welfare cheques come to you? e
PICKTON: Uh, yes it came to me as, uh, rent.
YURKIW: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: Yes.
YURKIW: And did you give her a portion of that at all?
PICKTON: Yes, and plus I gave her extra when she was working there a little bit, here and there.
YURKIW: So she left thinking you owed her money because she was working there.
PICKTON: . I, she got more than that I mean (inaudible) you know what I mean? I mean there’s, there’s no end to it. Like $100.00 went to $200.00 and... y e 94 |,
YURKIW: She never asked for more like thousands?
PICKTON: . It never got to a thousand.
YURKIW: No? 7
PICKTON: I wouldn’t give her. I wouldn’t give her that much.
HOUSTON: No, she was asking in December. Eviction notice? She asked for her rent money which was, was (inaudible)..........the 7eleven with that guy, not Ron, the other guy she was with.
PICKTON: I can’t remember.
HOUSTON: Yeah, she was wanting rent money or something.
YURKIW: Was this recent?
PICKTON: I can’t remember. 7
HOUSTON: Yeah, in December. Beginning of December she got evicted.
YURKIW: December of ‘99?
HOUSTON: Well, she says...-yeah.....well, she says she was evicted and she, I can’t remember. what the amount was. She was trying to hit everybody up for it.
YURKIW: So she’s kept in touch with you back and forth?, y e@ 95
PICKTON: Yes, which I don’t like.
HOUSTON: (Laughs) It’s always for money.
PICKTON: I don’t like it.
CATER: If you were to guess, how much money do you figure you’ ve given to her over ‘time?
HOUSTON: Too much.
PICKTON: Too much. C
CATER: Well, I’m just asking you to guess, you know. A hundred bucks, two hundred bucks here, you say. Not, not as much as a thousand but it al] adds up. What would you say? —
PICKTON: roe much: Too much.
CATER: More than what she could make in the sex trade in that pido time?
PICKTON: I don’t know. I honestly don’t know..
CATER: You don’t keep track of that sort of stuf Ten thousand?
PICKTON: No.
CATER: Five thousand? 7 a fs
PICKTON: Well, (inaudible) that much, not that much. But I missed a lot, J lost a lot of tools. I lost a lot of tools.
HOUSTON: When she couldn’t get money she pawned his stuff off. We'd go out to the auction or take the kids out and he’d come back and stuff was gone. And she tried to blame it on whoever walked in when he was away..
YURKIW: Anyone else ever have access to your barn to use it for slaughtering animals?
PICKTON: Yeah. a
YURKIW: Who?
PICKTON: Hmmm, but mostly I was there. I’m mostly there. 7
YURKIW: Okay. Who else would use it?
PICKTON: Uh, people from the auction.
YURKIW: Do you know their names?.
PICKTON: Paul...(inaudible)...well, there’s so many I mean. I mean every time you go toa.. sale there’s always people coming asking you to do this for ‘em, do this and do a that, you know? (Inaudible).... ‘Okay, how about, how about I tell you what, you take it to your place there. (Inaudible) he knows. Yeah, I deal with (inaudible) all the time.
CATER: And those are the types of people who would be coming to use your facility there? e 97
PICKTON: Mostly Filipinos. -
YURKIW: They do it themselves or?
PICKTON: A lot of them do it themselves, yeah, they don’t have the time to, to teach (inaudible) do it. Like I say, I said, you know, (inaudible)
CATER: See it’s the specifics that’ll help sort it out. So like Paul somebody. There must be somebody, like some names that you know, people that have used your facilities there whether you’re there or not. The specifics will only help you, so, help us sort this all out.
PICKTON: [don’t know. I really don’t know. There’s so many people. There’s so many. I 6 mean I don’t where to even start from. I mean like I said I have the place open and come in come and go as you please or whatever, you know. I don’t got nothing, nothing to hide.
YURKIW: And yet some days the gate’s locked..
PICKTON: Yes, because, uh, sometimes when I leave there I leave there and that was just in the past three, four months.
YURKIW: = Uh buh.
PICKTON: I been, uh, locking the gates all the time.
YURKIW: And why is that? oe.
PICKTON: Because I got a whole bunch of copper in there and everything else. There must be about, uh, ten thousand pounds of copper in there and I, I mean there’s some other stuff there around there. But it has, I mean I do-, I don’t have no night watchman right now. Springtime I’!I be getting a night watchman again.
YURKIW: So this copper is from a demolition site?
PICKTON: = De-, demolitions. ’
YURKIW: Okay, from demolitions. And it’s, uh, in what form is the copper?
PICKTON: It’s all prepared. r
YURKIW: Like is it copper pipe or?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: But the problem is I mean nobody’s there, nobody’s in the house or anything else. and the problem is we, we can go in and close the gates and you can go all the way down the back and nobody, no-, nobody’s the wiser you know what I mean? You can’t drive around the back at this time of year you know what I mean?
YURKIW: = Yeah.
PICKTON: And so the problem is I gotta, we gotta go down because (inaudible) back in. e
YURKIW: Can you get out through the back?
PICKTON: Yeah, you can.
YURKIW: = You can..
PICKTON: You’d have trouble trying.
YURKIW: = Okay. And where would that take you to?
PICKTON: Uh... eS
HOUSTON: Riverside. 7
PICKTON: Riverside.’
YURKIW: = Okay.
PICKTON: But we removing all the dirt from the back to the front because the next section of the material like you were talking about the pile of dirt and everything else, the next material, or, the next site is gonna be right from behind the bam all the way back is the next, next phase coming in. -
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: So now we gotta move all that dirt from the back all the way up to the front. That pile out there. The preload. It’s there for a purpose and the problem is going in. @ (Inaudible) we just take the top soil off of there. It’s all topsoil. |. 100
YURKIW: So that portion at the back is already sold basically to development?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: We haven’t sold it yet...
YURKIW: But that’s the idea..
PICKTON: We’re just, we’re selling the next, next phase right.
YURKIW: Yeah. Okay. ad
PICKTON: The next phase will be going right to the back of the barn.
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: Like probably sometime this year the barn will be down. You know in (inaudible)
CATER: (inaudible) a lot of property.
PICKTON: ‘Cause that’s where our dirt’s gonna (inaudible)....that’s where our dirt’s on the a one side there “cause you bring all the dirt from the big pile at the back and bring it around to the front.
YURKIW: So if we were to come in there with your permission. e a. 6
PICKTON: That’s no problem.
YURKIW: And take samples from the area and that... :.
PICKTON: Help yourself.
YURKIW: ....and we were to test 1f, would we find any human DNA in there?
PICKTON: Hmm, if you do I mean I, I gotta give you credit because the problem is not that I’m aware of.
YURKIW: = Okay. Um, would we find the personal items of any females?. e
PICKTON: Um, except Lynn’s. J still got some of her stuf in my place (inaudible)....
YURKIW: Okay. So all Lynn’s personal stuff is there, um, would there be identification of any other person?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: Do you have a, a safe or do you keep your, um, business cash in a certain area? You make a deposit so many times a week or anything? How do you safeguard it?
PICKTON: I just put it in the trailer.
YURKIW: Yeah.
PICKTON: Hide it, hide it here and hide it there.
PICKTON: That’s it.. VURKIW: Would it be easy for someone like Lynn to find? a
PICKTON: Possibly.
YURKIW: Mmm hmm. But she never did?
PICKTON: Well, she did I know a couple times it was very, very close to it. But when it wa-,. it was still there and, and she never said anything, you know what I mean? But it e was still there. I mean mo-, most of it was still there.
YURKIW: But you do keep most of your money in the bank accounts. Like you don’t have - huge sums?
PICKTON: I don’t use banking that much.. YUREIW: No? Business have a bank account though?,
PICKTON: Oh, the business is separate. ;. unc. Yeah.
PICKTON: That’s all separate.
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: That just means that whatever I do with the pigs or whatever, that’s all cash on my behalf.
YURKIW: Cash. Okay.
PICKTON: But I don’t (inaudible)....nothing. I don’t have no records, no nothing in there. That’s just my own little thing whatever, what I play with or whatever, you know what I mean?
YURKIW: Mmm hmm. So getting back to this incident though or these prostitutes, this one in particular she i.d’d you because she’s standing there and you called out to her and asked her if she was a whore and she says “you got the wrong person.’ and @ then you made qf off-hand threat to her get around the corner and squealed away. mean she’s got you and your vehicle.
PICKTON: Well, I don’t know where this is coming from but, uh, that’s not true.
YURKIW: Well, it came because New West...
PICKTON: Mmm hmmm.,
YURKIW: Has a bunch of undercover police officers that... oo
PICKTON: That’s okay. I mean, I don’t know where this is coming from. Really, I don’t.
YURKIW: Well, it came right from the prostitute.
PICKTON: Okay but I mean I don’t know who this party 1s or anything else and J don’t know nothing about this..
HOUSTON: Is it possible the prostitute knew (inaudible)....
PICKTON: No, I, I don’t know. -
YURKIW: I don’t think so. ‘
PICKTON: I don’t know.
YURKIW: How did you get involved with al the prostitutes Gina?
HOUSTON: How did 1?.
YURKIW: Yeah. |. ;.
HOUSTON: Ive had friends over the year and I’ve been partying with different chicks that been hookers. My best friend and you know She’s a prostitute.
YURKIW: Mmm hmm. Did, uh, Lynn ever make any, uh, snreats or accusations to you about the welfare cheques? Welfare ever come after you?
PICKTON: Welfare inaudible).
YURKIW: Yet they’re after Lynn.
PICKTON: [don’t know nothing about the (inaudible)... ©
YURKIW: = She never made any comments to you?
PICKTON: I (inaudible).......
YURKIW: Okay, so you would get her welfare cheques.
PICKTON: Not anymore. vurKaw. No, but you would, you did.
PICKTON: I got her rent receipt, er, rent that she was staying there for rent that’s it.
YURKIW: Okay, but did it come to you in the form of a cheque?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: So they would pay you...
PICKTON: 325.
YURKIW: They would pay you, Bob PICKTON, and it would be re: rent for Lynn ELLINGSEN?.
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Okay, so 325 a month is basically what she-got? Do you know anything else about Lynn? A family situation? ® . © 106
PICKTON: Not a clue.
YURKIW: Has she got any kids?
PICKTON: One kid, a boy.
YURKIW: Does he live with her?
PICKTON: Well, she’s [sic] supposed to live with her.
HOUSTON: She’s collected welfare for him when she hasn’t had him. I understand he’s, she’s not allowed to see him right now or something.
PICKTON: She’s supposed to move, the kid’s supposed to move in with her when she moved in..
YURKIW: When she moved in to your olace? And that never seppened? Do you know why?
PICKTON: Because (inaudible) I don’t know.
HOUSTON: When she went to (inaudible) she was supposed to stay there to get off the drugs.
PICKTON: That’s wha-, that’s what......
HOUSTON: That’s how it first started off. And she actually did good for a while.
PICKTON: I didn’t even know she was, even bad, bad, bad as she
HOUSTON: I told you. Yeah, but she, she did well, good for a while but some of the people that come around sometimes I guess she hooked up with a few of them and the next thing you know it was just a big disaster.
PICKTON: You get a hold of Adrian, Adrian will probably tell you mo-, te-, tell you all about her too. ;.
YURKIW: So they had a thing going?
PICKTON: Yeah. Yeah, they, they...
HOUSTON: She had a thing going with every guy that came in there that did dope or hada wad of money on him. It didn’t matter who it was, she’d try to sweet talk ‘em out @ of their money or sweet talk ‘em out of their dough.
CATER: What was she using mostly? Do you know?
PICKTON: I don’t even know. I don’t even know. Al! I know is one time when I came into the, to the barn she was laying on the floor there then she was, oh, fuck, what the hell’s going on here? Her room’s over there and then she was laying on the floor here and she says and she says, uh, something about killing this and killing that. I said ‘what the fuck are you talking about?’ You know, the, the, I says, uh, so then I phoned the paramedics after everything else. I says ‘hey, fuck I mean, uh, I gota oo girl on the floor here. It looks like she’s having a, she’s overdose or something like that. And I, and they wanted to know what her, what her name was. And I said ‘I don’t even know. All I know her name is Lynn.’ ‘what’s the last name?’ ‘I don’t even know.’ So, you know.... a
HOUSTON: She told me she never did nothing but coke but J know there was one incident after met her she told me she was passed out at a friend’s place and I guess she had woken up and she had to be rushed to the hospital because her leg had been numb or something and they had to cut the leg open and revive the muscle in her leg and it turned out later on, I found out from the person she was with that she was shooting heroine in her leg, so. She says she never did heroine but I mean how does that happen? That happens from injecting into the, getting it in the muscle, right..
CATER: Mmm hmm.
HOUSTON: It doesn’t happen from falling asleep on your leg. (Laughs) especially when they did blood work and there was traces of heroine.
CATER: No, for sure if that was the case, absolutely, yeah.
HOUSTON: Oh, yeah, yeah. And then she to-, she told me later on someone put it in her drink one time and another time she tried to tell me thai someone shot her up and.she was passed out but I mean, I don’t know..
YURKIW: So this Ross, uh, fellow, he lived there while Lynn was living there.
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Was hea friend of yours?
PICKTON: No, a friend of Lynn’s. eo
YURKIW: A friend of Lynn’s. Do you still keep in touch with him or does he still live there? No?
PICKTON: He only stayed there for two weeks, three weeks.
YURKIW: Okay. And did he work for you?
PICKTON: No.
YURKIW: No?
PICKTON: Just stayed there.,
YURKIW: Do you, have you heard from him since?
PICKTON: Yeah. He came over and knocked on my door there and this was about 2 o’clock in the morning and, um, says that, uh, he needs money. I says, yeah, I g-, “ no, no, ~ no, no’ (inaudible).... Anyways, he was almost, he was punching the door, punching the wall couple times. He came back. He says ‘I need some money.’ I says ‘forget it.” He’s a big guy. I don’t know.
HOUSTON: He works as a bouncer. It’s, wh, I think it’s the Flamingo.
PICKTON: (inaudible) J don’t think he works there anymore.
HOUSTON: No? Oh.
CATER: It’s out in Surrey?
HOUSTON: Yeah. Or he was working there. I think it was the Flamingo wasn’t it? Or it’s in that Fla-, there’s two bars or pubs or whatever.
PICKTON: Flamingo, that’s right.
CATER: Mmm hmm.
HOUSTON: Yeah, well, he works in one of them. Off and on.
YURKIW: And you sold him your truck?
HOUSTON: No, that’s a different one.. e@
PICKTON: No, that’s different Ross’...
YURKIW: Oh, okay. So which Ross is this?
HOUSTON: Lynn’s friend. |,
YURKIW: Okay. And who’s the other Ross?.
PICKTON: The other Ross; the one that I sold my, uh, bought my truck?
YURKIW: Yeah. _.
PICKTON: Uh, I don’t know his last name but his name is Ross. (J
YURKIW: And what’s his association to you? How do you know him?
PICKTON: Through a friend. ‘Cause the-, they, they came as-, they came after me asking me if you were interested in selling your truck. I said ‘yeah, no problem.’
YURKIW: And when did he buy that?
PICKTON: Oh, I don’t know.
HOUSTON: That was in the, a couple months after the incident with...
PICKTON: That was the, that was the...
HOUSTON: I guess in the early, late spring, early summer of 97.
PICKTON: That was after the (inaudible)...
HOUSTON: After the stabbings. A couple of (inaudible)
PICKTON: ‘Cause my truck was all covered with blood at that time.
HOUSTON: That? three or four months after, four months after (inaudible)...
PICKTON: I remember my truck was all covered with blood at that time. a
CATER: Not a selling feature.
PICKTON: I don’t even wanna think of it. C
HOUSTON: (Laughs and for an extra bonus we won’t clean the blood off.
PICKTON: And all the blood is inside my trailer was all mine, everything. There was no blood inside my truck that belongs to her, no nothing. Ever-, I mean whatever happened it happened after outside.
YURKIW: So this Ross that was Lynn’s friend, he just dropped in and started staying there or how...?
PICKTON: Yeah because he had a problem with his wife or with a lady..
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: Judgment against, yeah he can’t, he can’t be in that area or whatever.
YURKIW: = Okay.
PICKTON: And (inaudible)....
YURKIW: When did he move out?.
PICKTON: Two weeks. He was there two weeks.
YURKIW: Okay.
PICKTON: Lynn told him to move out otherwise he’d be still there. He’s one of the ones that you, you put the foot down there and then he’s there. He, he’s there ‘til you kick him out. Ty
YURKIW: Okay. Did he have any habits that drove you nuts? e
HOUSTON: Crack.
YURKIW: Hewasa dope...
PICKTON: He was, he was getting so ba-, mean Lynn was getting all this advice from her, him.,
YURKIW: Hmm. Js Lynn a drinker too?
PICKTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: Was he?
PICKTON: I don’t know.
HOUSTON: Uh, not really.
PICKTON: He dmnks because he....
HOUSTON: He drinks but he’s not a drinker. Not like Lynn. He drinks. He’ll have a couple. beer and stuff but he’s more of a smoker. Lynn used to try to tell me he sold dope out here but from all the years (inaudible)....met him at the mall out here.
YURKIW: What’s his last name? nousTON: I don’t know.
CATER: So he was just on the pipe, that was it?. e
HOUSTON: That I know of. I mean Lynn asked me to come over and give her a drive somewhere and that was after she’d worked all day for (inaudible) and ‘yeah, no problem.’ I get there and they’re both tweaking behind the curtain in the front, room of the trailer, right.
CATER: Mmm.
HOUSTON: I walked in ‘oh!’ like this nght, so. That’s all, that’s all I’ve ever know him to do is have a couple beer and smoke a couple rocks. Other than that, no. I don’t really like the guy. He just seemed kinda (inaudible)...
PICKTON: You know the only drugs you’re gonna find in the whole place is probably from my, from the one girl there but that’s it. From ViCo7| But I mean but the @ problem is she wasn’t, she went from there up the road and south. Uh, I know there’s a, she, then she went down to the (inaudible) and they got, they got busted over there ‘cause they had marijuana growing there, marijuana plants, And that really (inaudible)....’m really well known now. I brought her home and now all. of a sudden the (inaudible) get busted too.
CATER: There’s these other issues that we’re trying to sort out. So we’re not worried about that right now.
YURKIW: So any other women live there besides CI-PERS Fi Lee, some girl from a Saskatchewan 20 years ago.
PICKTON: That’s 20 years, I, I don’t know what, she just kind of came and she was gone.
YURKIW: Okay. So let’s, let’s do 1997. Okay, VICo7 drops in there, you have an . @ altercation. Who lives there after SR
PICKTON: Nobody.
YURKIW: Nobody.
PICKTON: (Inaudible)...Lynn.
YURKIW: Lynn. So AS and Lee were there prior to MICO?
HOUSTON: Lee, Lee stayed for a couple weeks after that.
PICKTON: Oh, yeah, yeah, Lee stayed there, yeah.
HOUSTON: Or maybe even for a month or two. I can’t remember.
YURKIW: When was that?
PICKTON: That was after, uh, doctoring me up.
HOUSTON: After he got out of the hospital she....(inandible)?
PICKTON: Yeah. |. oo
HOUSTON: Two months maybe
PICKTON: ‘Cause they figure th-, the, that, uh, her pimp might come da-, come back, er e WiCOe AG pimp or bodyguard or whatever. (Inaudible) black guy or whatever I heard somebody told me.
HOUSTON: I don’t know.
YURKIW: wicen had a pimp?
PICKTON: = Yeah..
HOUSTON: Boyfriend, pimp.
PICKTON: Boyfriend, pimp or whatever. Apparently it was supposed to be a black guy. That’s what J mean J heard through the grape vine.
HOUSTON: Yeah. |.
CATER: Hmm, you don’t <nauaible)?
HOUSTON: You know I can...
CATER: The street name? -
HOUSTON: I can get you the auy. You know what? if you had brought me pictures of black. pimps, I could sho- probably pick him out. For the life of me.
CATER: How old would he be?
HOUSTON: Oh, gees. e oe 7
PICKTON: You know (inaudible)...
HOUSTON: Late 30's
PICKTON: Apparently..... :..
CATER: Like old school?, 7 main Noman
HOUSTON: Yeah, oh definitely old school, yeah. MESS remember his name-omen was’ ee. they were together, been together forever and they have kids together.
PICKTON: You know, it could be the same black guy, too.
HOUSTON: Oh, it could be.
CATER: Would this be a white girl?.
HOUSTON: Yeah, she was. (Inaudible) anymore because ed VIC97] hung out together. For the life of me though J can picture the guy clearly in my, when he smoked his pipe he used to have the pipe and the lighter and he used to do this little G@naudible) with it..
CATER: He was on pipe not the back of the pipe.
HOUSTON: Oh, yeah, he was on the plate too.
CATER: Okay. ca
HOUSTON: And he stood out so far because like I said he’d been throw-, it’s like he was trying to make love to his wife or something (making sounds). (Laughs)
CATER: Hmm.
HOUSTON: He was really bad, though. I mean I’ve heard a lot of girls say he was really bad. (Inaudible) bring meney when he wanted it and stuff he’d be pretty (inaudible)
CATER: Anything stand out about him in your mind?
HOUSTON: Just...
CATER: Like how would you describe his, describe him? You say you could pick him out,. e. :, \
HOUSTON: I could pick the picture. Yeah, sho-, really short hair. A little bit grey here. I guess he’d be about my size, er, my height, little, very well built.
CATER: Mmm hmm.
HOUSTON: Un, very smooth talker.
CATER: Dark? Like dark skin?
HOUSTON: Yeah, dark, dark skin and I don’t think he was black though. I think he was more be, I don’t know what he was, I don’t know. Like a Jamaican maybe negro cross.
CATER: Mmm hmm.,
HOUSTON: Or whatever. And smooth voice. (Inaudible)...
PICKTON: Too tired? When you’ re not working or something like that you just get tired.....anaudible) to when you’re finished the job or, um, after, you know, you gotta have a little bit rest (inaudible) the drive home....
CATER: Mmm hmm. How many hours today? When did you start today?
PICKTON: Seven.
YURKIW: So do you have any, uh, women staying out at the trailer now? No?
PICKTON: Except sometimes when Gina comes over..
HOUSTON: Yeah.
YURKIW: And you never went downtown looking for GA: fterwards?
PICKTON: I didn’t even know what she even looks like. I haven’t seen her once in, in, by that time, by that time, like I says
CATER: That would make sense, yeah, you’ve only seen her once.
PICKTON: I don’t even know what she even looks like. I mean I only seen her once. What she looks like, she could be a, somebody told me she had black hair or something like that but... Ss caTER: ss Ginaudibie) 120
PICKTON: I don’t know. She could be blonde hair, or just dye her hair black. 1 don't know. -
CATER: Mmm hmm. Well, yeah, absolutely. Wig, dyes anything like that.
HOUSTON: Biz [sic] who knows right.
CATER: Mmm hmm.
PICKTON: Idon’t know.
CATER: No doubt.
PICKTON: Like I said it was nighttime at this time. eo 7 7
CATER: What would’ve made you bring her back, like to your place? ‘Cause that’s unusual..
PICKTON: Yeah, well (SIDE C ends) a (SIDE D:)
HOUSTON: One thing she does is if he refuses to give her money then she threatens to come and beat me up.
PICKTON: Yes. (Side D ends) (YURKIW)CST Reg #34747 (CATER)CST Reg #43719 ac., This is the Statement of Robert PICKTON, taken January 19, 2000, at 19:30 hours, by Constable John CATER and Constable Ruth YURKIW, of the Coquitlam Detachment (Amendment to EV Doc 586) (VIDEO RECORDING FROM WAV TIME 1:40:46) 1 Cst. J.
CATER: That wouldn’t make you feel comfortable you wouldn't say, a 2 woman like that, necessarily. 3 4 Robert
PICKTON: don’t Know her really, don’t really uh, Know. It was part of 5 that time, said, (INDECIPHERABLE)... 6 7 (Constable Ruth YURKIW enters Interview Room - Wav Tim - 1:41:02) 8 9 Cst. J.
CATER: Mm-hm. 10 11 Robert
PICKTON: I think she was going to get a taxi and go home. Try and set 12 up and phone him back and can’t (INDECIPHERABLE) that 13 time. 14 15 Cst. J.
CATER: She lived, did she live in this area too, is that why you were 16 bringing her back or you just... 17 18 Robert
PICKTON: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 19 20 Gina
HOUSTON: Her, Patricia did. 21 22 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah. Patricia (INDECIPHERABLE) and the other thing. 23 24 Cst. J.
CATER: So, you would have intended then to bring her back 25 probably? 26 27 Robert
PICKTON: Uh, or get a taxi or something, you see. 28 29 Cst. J.
CATER: Mm-hm, mm-m. (INDECIPHERABLE). 30 31 Robert
PICKTON: don’t know. 32 33 Cst. R. YURKIW. Bob, how did you find out about our Police Investigation? 34 35 Robert
PICKTON: Police Investigation. 36 37 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Like, how did you find out some, our interest with respect to Page 1 of 16 38 the allegations you’ve been under? 39 40 Robert
PICKTON: Well, my brother phoned me that you guys were at the farm. 4] 42 Cst. R. YURKIW.- And that was after the fact, that was last summer. 43 44 Gina
HOUSTON: Lynn’s been saying that you guys been calling her and 45 asking her questions about Willie and she’s been saying 46 nothing. You guys keep harassing her and such. AT 48 Robert
PICKTON: haven’t spoken to Lynn for six (6) months. 49 50 Gina
HOUSTON: Well, that’s... 51 52 Robert
PICKTON: All know. 53 54 Gina
HOUSTON: That’s it, if she phones Willie (INDECIPHERABLE), but 55 won't say nothing, by the way, do you have money, can 56 get... 57 58 Cst. J.
CATER: Mm-hm. 59 60 Gina
HOUSTON: .. twenty (20), you know. 61 62 Cst. J.
CATER: Well this is important that’s why, you know. 63 64 Robert
PICKTON: And I’ve had quite, phoned, left about, uh, five (5) or six 65 (6) messages here and none, nobody returned a call since 66 phoned, you know. 67 68 Gina
HOUSTON: No, we kept playing telephone-tag. 69 70 Robert
PICKTON: And phoned, phoned back there and final, left about five 71 (5) messages up here. 72 2B Gina
HOUSTON: Yeah. 74 75 Robert
PICKTON: And uh... 76 77 Cst. R.
YURKIW: But every time you're saying, you want us to come out to 78 your trailer, that’s the problem, you haven't there for awhile, 79 and we don’t co that. 80 81 Robert
PICKTON: Uh, we call uh, Gerald or (INDECIPHERABLE), isn't Gerald, 82 a Lawyer calling now. Page 2 of 16 83 Cst. R. YURKIW- Darrell? 84 85 Robert
PICKTON: Darrell, he said, he gives me appointment for him to be 86 there, (INDECIPHERABLE) fucking night. And, like seen it, 87 it was, a late Friday night, was the night before? 88 89 Gina
HOUSTON: don’t really talk to him. 90 91 Robert
PICKTON: Five (5:00) o’clock or something, seven (7:00) o’clock think 92 it was. And had everybody too, everybody there and 93 everything else. And uh, and then he phones up, he says 94 that, don’t know, can’t come over uh, but want you guys 95 to all come here. 96 97 Gina
HOUSTON: RS has this under her brother or something, about their 98 reason that, if you guys want to talk to us about recharging 99 to the (INDECIPHERABLE) thing, and they didn’t want 100 company, they wanted us to do it. 101 102 Cst. J.
CATER: Hm, they can’t do that. 103 104 Gina
HOUSTON: Well, that’s, she’s trying to convince that they were talking to 105 her about... 106 107 Cst. J.
CATER: Oh, then that’s the... 108 109 Gina
HOUSTON: ... Randy... 110 111 Cst. J.
CATER: .. facts, know we can’t do that, so. 112 113 Gina
HOUSTON: But the thing is, is lili didn’t even know 114 (INDECIPHERABLE), didn’t even know him at the time, it 115 was a single buy, why would they be asking her questions 116 about that when she wasn’t even in the picture. It’s the 117 wrong (gill it was the other jj that was in the picture 118 when we were friends. 119 120 Cst. J.
CATER: Mm-hm. 121 122 Gina
HOUSTON: But, don’t she (INDECIPHERABLE), why would you be 123 (INDECIPHERABLE) about that when it’s actually the other 124 ME who we haven't even heard from her. 125 (INDECIPHERABLE) me. And then she would, she needed 126 some help and, oh, yeah, when they called me and they’ve 127 asked me questions, Willie, but I’m not saying nothing. Well, Page 3 of 16 128 there’s nothing to say anyway. Like, by the way, can 129 borrow forty (40) bucks. Yeah. So. Phh, that happens 130 regularly. You know. 131 132 Cst. J.
CATER: So, what was she saying we were telling her? What was 133 she saying we were trying to ask about? Do you recall? 134 135 Robert
PICKTON: Not really. 136 137 Cst. J.
CATER: ‘Cause that’s something that would be of interest to you, I’m 138 sure. 139 140 Robert
PICKTON: Huh. 141 142 Gina
HOUSTON: One thing she does is, if he refuses to give her money, then 143 she threatens to come and beat me and the... 144 145 Robert
PICKTON: Yes. 146 147 Gina
HOUSTON: . Kids. 148 149 Cst. J.
CATER: To beat you? 150 151 Gina
HOUSTON: Yeah. Well, you don’t understand, me and Lynn were in the 152 same spot when we met, and now have my own place, my 153 own farm, you know, have a new baby, have, you know. 154 155 Cst. J.
CATER: Yeah. 156 157 Gina
HOUSTON: rm not, lL... 158 159 Cst. J.
CATER: A (INDECIPHERABLE). 160 161 Gina
HOUSTON: haven't done drugs for two (2) years. Willie says, might 162 help me out when need it. And he spent a lot of money on 163 my daughter buying (INDECIPHERABLE) and, or whatever, 164 you know. So, Lynn figures that she, she’s out something. 165 When he says no to her... 166 167 Cst. J.
CATER: Mm-hm. 168 169 Gina
HOUSTON: ..and she says, well, I’m going to go to Gina and beat her, 170 and her and her kids, and then, so then we give her money. 171 So, she sort of got him, and Lynn will take this rock and she 172 will take on and if he says no to her, did the draw by saying Page 4 of 16 173 no to her, she would come hunt me down, in every bit in my 174 mind. She’d come and stab me. She tried once and, but 175 she didn’t Know where lived. 176 177 Cst. J.
CATER: Do you think that’s her personality Mister PICKTON? 178 179 Robert
PICKTON: Well. 180 181 Cst. J.
CATER: Do you see that in her? 182 183 Robert
PICKTON: Yes, do, definitely, definitely, but I... 184 185 Gina
HOUSTON: Yeah, one of my... 186 187 Robert
PICKTON: ...wish could put some kind of, something in there that, she 188 could have no contact with me whatsoever. 189 190 Gina
HOUSTON: She’s already gotten to one of my friends and... 191 192 Robert
PICKTON: wish could do something. Hm. 193 194 Gina
HOUSTON: She’s a liar. 195 196 Robert
PICKTON: She lies. mean, she'll look in front of your face and she'll 197 lie to you and she'll make you...phhh. 198 199 Gina
HOUSTON: She’s (INDECIPHERABLE) 200 201 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah. 202 203 Cst. J.
CATER: Hm. 204 205 Gina
HOUSTON: She did it to Andy, she had Ryan, Ross, she had to meet 206 with Andy and I, went and told Ron what was going on, Ron 207 wanted to speak to Andy. She had told Ron that Andy had 208 made all these lies up about her. She was sweet talking 209 Andy and had Ron and Ross come in behind Andy and they 210 beat the living crap out of him, mean, seen it all the time. 211 212 Robert
PICKTON: She’s crazy. 213 214 Gina
HOUSTON: Yeah, have no doubt in my mind that she will come. 215 216 Cst. J.
CATER: Mm-hm. 217 Page 5 of 16 218 Gina
HOUSTON: She’s not into where live. have no doubt in my mind. And 219 so you know, when she phones me up I'll, you know, I try to 220 be as nice as I can, don’t want to piss her off. The thing is, 221 if he withdraws, then have something to worry about. So, 222 it’s kinda, like how do you say no to her? Im sure you well 223 know (INDECIPHERABLE) set in the way, too much for her 224 to find out where live. Especially if she 225 (INDECIPHERABLE), no damn way. So, so she knows what 226 my car looks like, right, so. It's, whatever, what do you, what 227 do we do, huh. 228 229 Cst. J.
CATER: So, does she phone you up especially? Like, you know.... 230 231 Robert
PICKTON: Well, you know... 232 233 Cst. J.
CATER: ... specifically to talk to you about the Police? 234 235 Robert
PICKTON: Um... 236 237 Gina
HOUSTON: Not lately. 238 239 Robert
PICKTON: No, it’s not lately, no. No, she phones me up and, how are 240 you doing and blah, blah, blah and...I’m coming over, okay. 241 Mm, mm, mm, mm, what do, what are you coming over here 242 for? 243 244 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Does she make you a bit nervous? 245 246 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah, because the problem is, there’s no end to it. There’s 247 no end to it, because the problem is, she doesn't know, she 248 always comes to me, when she wants money. And if you 249 don't have it, she walks out, what you, uh, then, then she 250 get, she...ohh. Like said, want to, like, get a judgement to, 251 no, no contact with me or whatever. So. 252 253 Gina
HOUSTON: How do you do it without pissing off someone, that’s the 254 thing. don’t know if you ever... 255 256 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah, honestly... 257 258 Gina
HOUSTON: ...met Ron, her boyfriend or, whatever you call him, he’s 259 quite a big, big kid. 260 261 Cst. J.
CATER: Hm. 262 Page 6 of 16 263 Gina
HOUSTON: And, and, don’t believe that he’s personally been beaten 264 up, ’'m sure (INDECIPHERABLE) from what hear, but 265 don’t want to be the, oh, we'll get ina (INDECIPHERABLE) 266 into that and I’m sure he don’t want to be the one... 267 268 Robert
PICKTON: have never hit a girl or anything else, never. 269 270 Gina
HOUSTON: Except for one. 271 272 Robert
PICKTON: Except for that one time. don’t want to say her na, name or 273 anything like that. 274 275 Gina
HOUSTON: (LAUGHS) 276 277 Robert
PICKTON: One time. 278 279 Gina
HOUSTON: But, is there anything we can do to keep her uh, like away 280 from us? 281 282 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Where’s Pam living now? 283 284 Robert
PICKTON: She’s moving in June. 285 286 Cst. R. YURKIW- Okay, but where is she living right now? Where she... 287 288 Robert
PICKTON: She’s not, she goes over, nobody’s up in that place where 289 she’s at. 290 291 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Where was she at? 292 293 Robert
PICKTON: I, no, was, was at her place once too, you know. Um, he 294 calls this place...uhh...you guys go down One-oh-eight (108) 295 to that store, there’s a store in there. 296 297 Gina
HOUSTON: Mm-hm. 298 299 Robert
PICKTON: Turn and go down that road, road there and you go around 300 the block or something. mean, I’ve only been there once, 301 in front of, you know. 302 303 Cst. R. YURKIW- Ron? 304 305 Robert
PICKTON: Ron... 306 307 Cst. R. YURKIW- You guys friends or (INDECIPHERABLE)? So, who, who Page 7 of 16 308 was she living with there, at that house? 309 310 Gina
HOUSTON: That was the other boyfriend. 311 312 Robert
PICKTON: That was the other one, yeah. 313 314 Gina
HOUSTON: (LAUGHS) 315 316 Robert
PICKTON: The other spaz. 317 318 Cst. R. YURKIW- So, she’s moving from that house to some place else now? 319 320 Robert
PICKTON: With, I’m thinking. 321 322 Gina
HOUSTON: Supposed to be some place right on the beach, for the first 323 of next month. And they could, mean, that guy that she’s in 324 with before but I, think it’s around the first isn’t it? 325 326 Robert
PICKTON: don’t know, don’t absolutely know, no. don’t have a clue, 327 no. She said she was going to the, this here one place 328 there and she said she was going to be moving out at the 329 end of the month to a house. said, you can’t afford that 330 fucking money. Yeah. And know that when she, she tried 331 that place there and she went to another place down, so 332 (INDECIPHERABLE). So, interesting. Yeah. don’t Know 333 what, she was to move into a small basement suite instead 334 of something like, something on her own. But she don’t 335 have a (INDECIPHERABLE) for that. Hm. 336 337 Cst. R.
YURKIW: What if she wanted to come live with you for a couple of 338 weeks? 339 340 Gina
HOUSTON: (LAUGHS) 341 342 Robert
PICKTON: am with her already, and I'm glad to get rid of her. I’m glad 343 we have her out of there. 344 345 Cst. R. YURKIW- What if she showed up on your doorstep? 346 347 Robert
PICKTON: Well, don’t deny anybody. I mean, don't, don’t leave 348 anybody out. mean, if she’s stuck out for a place and then, 349 uh, yeah, help her out again. But a problem, not the, mean, 350 not for her to move in or nothing, mean, she’s there for a 351 night and, then she goes out and she finds and she, she 352 goes where she came from. Page 8 of 16 353 Gina
HOUSTON: Mm-hm. 354 355 Robert
PICKTON: But, otherwise, uh, no. 356 357 Cst. R. YURKIW- You think you could say no to her? 358 359 Robert
PICKTON: want to, going to have to ‘cause I’m tired of it. am tired of 360 it. Every day she’s phoning me for more money. 361 362 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Everyday? 363 364 Robert
PICKTON: Or every second day or third day or fourth day or week or, 365 whatever, she phones in. And she begs for money. 366 367 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Mm-hm. 368 369 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah, don’t know. 370 371 Cst. R.
YURKIW: And do you give her any? 372 373 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah, and plus (INDECIPHERABLE), give her stuff. 374 375 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Would she come out to your place to get it? 376 377 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah. Gave them twenty dollars ($20.00). Not very much. 378 379 Gina
HOUSTON: She'll come for ten (10) bucks, five (5) bucks or something, 380 whatever. 381 382 Robert
PICKTON: Give them, not very much but... 383 384 Cst. J.
CATER: How does she get around? 385 386 Robert
PICKTON: One time she hired a taxi. 387 388 Cst. J.
CATER: Oww, from Surrey all the way to Poco, mean, (NOISE IN 389 BACKGROUND). 390 391 Robert
PICKTON: didn’t know she was even coming out or anything, and she 392 wants me to pay for the taxi and everything else and the 393 Police Department was there. Give the taxi a phone number 394 and say uh, and uh, |, what’s uh, think, don't, don’t have 395 any money, mean... 396 397 Gina
HOUSTON: (COUGHS) Page 9 of 16 398 Robert
PICKTON: The Police came and asked me, he says, uh, who's going to 399 pay for the taxi? says, guess she is. Says uh, don’t you 400 have any, don’t you have any money for the taxi? says, 401 don't even have five cents on me. If you wanted to, can 402 give you a cheque. 403 404 Cst. J.
CATER: Mm-hm. 405 406 Robert
PICKTON: And, (INDECIPHERABLE), mean, if it makes you happy. 407 We went out to talk to the taxi and the taxi took off and about 408 the end of it. 409 410 Cst. R. YURKIW. Like, how long ago was this? 411 412 Robert
PICKTON: And gave Lynn a ride home. Oh, this is, after when she 413 was out. Well, have no idea. 414 415 Cst. R.
YURKIW: When's the last time you saw her? 416 417 Robert
PICKTON: Lynn? 418 419 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Mm-hm. 420 421 Robert
PICKTON: The day before yesterday. 422 423 Gina
HOUSTON: (CHUCKLES) 424 425 Cst. R.
YURKIW: And what did you have to say to her then? 426 427 Robert
PICKTON: gave her twenty (20) bucks. 428 429 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Did you tell her you’re coming to see us? 430 431 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah. 432 433 Cst. R. YURKIW- What did she say? 434 435 Robert
PICKTON: Oh. 436 437 Gina
HOUSTON: That’s probably why she was calling me up and the next, so 438 you're talking to me then. Yeah. Hi, Gina, oh, yeah. 439 440 Cst. R. YURKIW- How did she get up to the place the day before yesterday? 441 442 Robert
PICKTON: Somebody had picked her up. So, maybe, no, somebody in Page 10 of 16 443 Maple Ridge. 444 445 Gina
HOUSTON: Oh, they went from Surrey to Maple Ridge and then from 446 Maple Ridge they came out. And she phoned me from 447 (INDECIPHERABLE). 448 449 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah. That’s right, but then they, they went to Maple Ridge, 450 back to Surrey, from Surrey back to Maple Ridge. 451 452 Gina
HOUSTON: Oh. 453 454 Cst. R. YURKIW- What was the vehicle? 455 456 Robert
PICKTON: aS don’t know, a Pickup truck. 457 458 Cst. R. YURKIW- What kind of Pickup truck? 459 460 Robert
PICKTON: don’t know, never even seen it. never even seen it. I... 461 462 Cst. R.
YURKIW: Drove up to your place and you didn’t see it? 463 464 Robert
PICKTON: I’m working all the time, was in (INDECIPHERABLE) barn. 465 466 Cst. J.
CATER: How did you know it was a Pickup car then, a Pickup truck, 467 mean’? 468 469 Robert
PICKTON: Hm, seen it was a Pickup truck. 470 471 Cst. R.
YURKIW: And what color was it? 472 473 Robert
PICKTON: didn’t see it though. 474 475 Cst. J.
CATER: Did he come back to the trailer to meet you, or just the 476 house? 477 478 Robert
PICKTON: Some’em tells me it’s a new truck, it’s a Diesel, it’s a noisy 479 one. Ninety eight (98) Diesel. That year was around uh, 480 ninety eight (‘98), was in the trailer that time. Yeah, no, 481 don't know, it was a ninety eight (98) Diesel, all really 482 remember is, hear the noise of a Diesel. And he said a 483 new truck. Uh, something, a ninety eight (‘98). 484 (INDECIPHERABLE). And not, not an (INDECIPHERABLE) 485 one. Somebody tell me a two-tone. 486 487 Cst. J.
CATER: Did you meet him? Page 11 of 16 488 Robert
PICKTON: No. No, don’t, don’t even know he’s outside. He never 489 even came...wait a minute. There’s two (2) guys were, and 490 then came in the trailer. Two (2) guys came in the trailer. 491 have no, no, don’t Know, don’t know. And wasn’t, well, 492 was in the house, in the trailer that time and remember 493 heard a noise ‘cause was on the phone at the same time. 494 495 Cst. J.
CATER: ‘Cause you have an incredible memory for nineteen seventy 496 seven (1977), and dates and such, but not for only a few 497 days ago. 498 499 Robert
PICKTON: wasn’t there and uh, I, I’ve never, it’s a Diesel and I’ve 500 never seen the truck. never seen the truck. Diesel. Yeah, 501 think Lynn, Lynn got out of the two-tone. I have never seen 502 it, really, haven’t seen it, no. No, maybe did see it. 503 504 Cst. J.
CATER: Do you know the name of the other guy? 505 506 Robert
PICKTON: No, don’t know, should, remember shaking hands with 507 him, both of them. 508 509 Cst. J.
CATER: So, you saw fil then? 510 511 Robert
PICKTON: But, neither one of them were Kilililill Neither of them, 512 neither of them were Eiliiadail 513 514 Gina
HOUSTON: I’m, names, gave you the right name, don’t even know for 515 sure. 516 517 Robert
PICKTON: CEPERS Cit 518 something like that. think him too in the one, the, afte 519 PERS mm-hm. eneseanseee 520 521 CESS know this guy name... 522 523 Cst. J.
CATER: Call display from a cell? 524 525 Robert
PICKTON: No. 526 527 Gina
HOUSTON: On his phone. 528 529 Robert
PICKTON: On my, on my cell, on my... 530 531 Cst. J.
CATER: That’s where she called from, Main and Portage? 532 Page 12 of 16 533 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah, uh, no, from her cell, her cell-phone, ‘cause he doesn’t 534 have a phone, ‘cause he’s always on the...and... 535 536 Gina
HOUSTON: Can a cell-phone hook him up with a name. 537 538 Robert
PICKTON: Well, wait a minute, wait... 539 540 Cst. J.
CATER: Know. 541 542 Robert
PICKTON: ...a minute, no, didn’t met uh, no, did not met the GARE 543 guy because he met here, she walked down to the barn, but 544 there was another guy came, two ss days before that, two 545 (2) guys. I don’t know who this guy is, have never 546 even met them. GE SRSMG believe, I’m positive. 547 548 Cst. J.
CATER: And they were with her these other two (2) guys? 549 550 Robert
PICKTON: Yes. 551 552 Cst. J.
CATER: The two (2) days before? 553 554 Robert
PICKTON: Yes. Yes. And that was in a Pickup truck, that was a Two- 555 tone. That was a Diesel. don’t Know what he got, mean, 556 uh, just sort of can’t figure out what was it, 557 (INDECIPHERABLE). But the one that he, it was a, it was a 558 eighty five (‘85), eighty six (‘86), Diesel, two-tone. And 559 something tells me it’s a Ford. I’m not exactly sure, but 560 was in the barn at that tine. But the other time there, is uh, 561 she came right down and said, how did you get down here, 562 and here, and you know, she said she walked down from the 563 gate. Cause she didn’t want, he didn’t want to get the truck 564 dirty, it's a new truck. 565 566 Cst. J.
CATER: A ninety eight (98) one? 567 568 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah, ninety eight (‘98), says it’s a brand new truck. Ninety 569 eight (98), ninety nine (99) guess. It’s a leased truck. It’s 570 a leased truck. 571 572 Cst. J.
CATER: Because, she told you that? $73 574 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah. I’m pretty sure. I’m thinking it’s true but, that’s right. 575 576 Gina
HOUSTON: Does anyone (INDECIPHERABLE)? 577 Page 13 of 16 578 Robert
PICKTON: Was MaCl-PERS Um, I’m not too sure the 579 phone number, I, can see it but can’t, know I dialed that 580 number once and said, I’m just returning your message 581 ‘cause you phoned, ‘cause don’t, mean have 582 (INDECIPHERABLE), return every message of everybody. 583 But uh, know when somebody phones from Surrey, today, 584 and don’t think she’s in surrey, think she’s in, she’s in 585 (INDECIPHERABLE). 586 587 Cst. R.
YURKIW: So, she phoned you today? 588 589 Robert
PICKTON: Uh, no message. No message. No message, |, |, see the, if 590 see the, the Surrey number. can see the Surrey numbers, 591 it’s a five eight oh (580) something. And that’s Jerry’s 592 number. 593 594 Gina
HOUSTON: Yeah, but, I’m, a number in Surrey? 595 596 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah. 597 598 Gina
HOUSTON: Oh. 599 600 Robert
PICKTON: 100m not. 601 602 Cst. R. YURKIW- Lynn ELLINGSEN ever been uh, doing, prostituting herself? 603 604 Gina
HOUSTON: Well, yeah, guess you could say that. She called me up 605 one time, she told me she was at a party with five (5) guys 606 and she said she was doing dope with all of them, wanted to 607 know if wanted to come and join her. thought she was 608 joking at first but it turned out, oh, she was serious about it. 609 So, guess, yeah, you could call that prostitution. Or, 610 guess, actual favors for dope, (CHUCKLES). And with 611 Addy too, then yeah, guess so. She can and buy dope and 612 she’d take some for dope and. 613 614 Robert
PICKTON: Well, know her new boyfriend, his (INDECIPHERABLE). 615 616 Gina
HOUSTON: He must have a big bag. (LAUGHS) 617 618 Robert
PICKTON: Ill say, thought... 619 620 Gina
HOUSTON: Actually, no, if it’s (INDECIPHERABLE), it’s in Haney, it’s 621 on... 622 Page 14 of 16 623 624 Robert
PICKTON: No, not Hane, know it’s in Surrey near Rob. 625 626 Gina
HOUSTON: Mm-hm. It was in Hanley, she’s been (INDECIPHERABLE). 627 628 Cst. J.
CATER: With who? 629 630 Gina
HOUSTON: It's Scott and Haney, she sends a really rough boy. Uh, 631 when she’s not... 632 633 Robert
PICKTON: Uh, is that, is... 634 635 Gina
HOUSTON: Vallet, she parks in and runs inside, (INDECIPHERABLE). 636 637 Cst. J.
CATER: Who's he? 638 639 Gina
HOUSTON: Who is he, um, what’s his name, one of the Angel’s. What 640 the Hell’s his name now? 641 642 Robert
PICKTON: That uh, Rob is he uh, this guy with a, the new truck. He 643 got, he got a new truck too. 644 645 Gina
HOUSTON: I’ve never seen it, so. 646 647 Robert
PICKTON: (INDECIPHERABLE). 648 649 Gina
HOUSTON: You familiar with Lynn’s brother? 650 651 Cst. J.
CATER: What? 652 653 Gina
HOUSTON: Did you ever meet Lynn’s brother? 654 655 Robert
PICKTON: Yeah, GERSRSHE right, too. 656 657 Gina
HOUSTON: (LAUGHS). 658 659 Cst. R. YURKIW- What do you mean by that? 660 661 Robert
PICKTON: Well, we have a, we have reasons, dope is the 662 (INDECIPHERABLE). Give him something. He, I, got him 663 to do some work on the trailer. Not, not, not in my place but 664 another place. And he works half, uh, part day and then he 665 has to go and has it, your um, spaz attack. Uh, dope or 666 whatever. 667 Page 15 of 16 668 AUDIO ENDS ABRUPTLY - WAV TIME 2:03:03 669 670 END OF INTERVIEW 671 672 673 TRANSCRIPT PROOFED BY ON, 2011 674 AND IS CERTIFIED CORRECT. INTERVIEWEE LAST NAME/INTERVIEWER LAST NAME/SD Page 16 of 16 ================================================================